Linus Torvalds Vents On openSUSE Desktop Security

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This is definitely rant of the day. You have to admit, when it comes to Linux, it's kinda hard to argue with Linus Torvalds.

I gave OpenSUSE a try, because it worked so well at install-time on the Macbook Air, but I have to say, I've had enough. There is no way in hell I can honestly suggest that to anybody else any more. I first spent weeks arguing on a bugzilla that the security policy of requiring the root password for changing the timezone and adding a new wireless network was moronic and wrong.
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Not as moronic as Microsoft forcing UAC prompts to do some of the most trivial shit in Vista, like delete a folder or shortcut file from the start menu, disco internet connection, almost anything you want to do on Vista is an annoyance due to security prompts. It takes some special moron to design an OS like that.
 
You didn't quote the best part:

So here's a plea: if you have anything to do with security in a distro, and think that my kids (replace "my kids" with "sales people on the road" if you think your main customers are businesses) need to have the root password to access some wireless network, or to be able to print out a paper, or to change the date-and-time settings, please just kill yourself now. The world will be a better place.
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For a server - sure, this kind of security could make sense. But for a desktop? Add this to the list of reasons why the linux desktop will never be mainstream.
 
Vista was released over 5 years ago (retail) and was already replaced by Windows 7 almost 2.5 years ago (at retail). This is 2012, dude. :p Time to move on...
 
pxc said:
Vista was released over 5 years ago (retail) and was already replaced by Windows 7 almost 2.5 years ago (at retail). This is 2012, dude. :p Time to move on...
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I have 2 copies of Win7 installed but I also have Vista on another PC.
 
kontact said:
Not as moronic as Microsoft forcing UAC prompts to do some of the most trivial shit in Vista, like delete a folder or shortcut file from the start menu, disco internet connection, almost anything you want to do on Vista is an annoyance due to security prompts. It takes some special moron to design an OS like that.
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Whoever approved that is probably the same guy who approved the removal of the Start Menu in Windows 8.
 
Ha, awesome:

Linus Torvalds - +Blair Zimmerman: if you want to restrict people from doing everyday things, make that the uncommon option, and add a checkmark for it.

Don't force your taliban ways on everybody else.
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bigdogchris said:
Whoever approved that is probably the same guy who approved the removal of the Start Menu in Windows 8.
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But the UAC has a purpose, unlike metro. Which is just a poor GUI.

UAC warnings worries everyday people and warms them about doing potentially silly things, or causes them to ask someone else or seek advice. It was a step forward over XP, where you could screw up everything without the slightest warning or idea you were doing anything wrong. Still doesn't stop the "pro" users...though usually they just disable it, or something even more stupid, so theres no stopping or warning them.
 
Linus isn't being an asshole here -- he's right. I am 100% for security, but security needs to be implemented in such a way that it does not unnecessarily impede the user experience.
 
shabazkilla said:
For a server - sure, this kind of security could make sense. But for a desktop? Add this to the list of reasons why the linux desktop will never be mainstream.
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Someone made a good post about how the Linux community doesn't actually *want* to be successful and popular, which is why they do things like shun one of, if not the, most successful consumer applications of Linux - Android. Things like this just fit into that so perfectly. The fact that when he filed a bug on this stuff he got push back is mind boggling.
 
kllrnohj said:
Someone made a good post about how the Linux community doesn't actually *want* to be successful and popular, which is why they do things like shun one of, if not the, most successful consumer applications of Linux - Android. Things like this just fit into that so perfectly. The fact that when he filed a bug on this stuff he got push back is mind boggling.
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I'm a geek -- in every sense of the word. I'm a computer geek, electrical engineering geek, model railroad geek, linux geek, etc.

but, something that has always pissed me off has been the this attitude among linux geeks. they get pissed off because no one "gets them" but then they have an elitist attitude which quickly alienates anyone who would want to understand them and their interests.
 
kontact said:
Not as moronic as Microsoft forcing UAC prompts to do some of the most trivial shit in Vista, like delete a folder or shortcut file from the start menu, disco internet connection, almost anything you want to do on Vista is an annoyance due to security prompts. It takes some special moron to design an OS like that.
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UAC is at least easy to deal with and disable if you like. Its not really comparable to what Linus is talking about.
 
Just for the record windows does the same thing. Only admin's can change the date/time, however the difference is that you can setup policies to allow others to do it.
 
...and that's why I use Debian-branch distros. (except Mint, damn noob OS)
 
Exavior said:
Just for the record windows does the same thing. Only admin's can change the date/time, however the difference is that you can setup policies to allow others to do it.
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Linus' problem was with changing time zone, not date / time. One could argue that an admin needs to block a user from changing the time to keep whatever processes from being affected, but a user can move from time zone to time zone without causing problems.

In general I think the issue is the divide between what changes fundamental settings and what is normal use that has no impact on whatever is already running. Adding printers and networks is completely different from changing the hardware setup and there are no security reasons for preventing that.
 
"If you __________, please just kill yourself now. The world will be a better place."

I often have that thought, especially when it comes to politics.
 
Exavior said:
Just for the record windows does the same thing. Only admin's can change the date/time, however the difference is that you can setup policies to allow others to do it.
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Yes and no. A Windows admin and a Linux root user are not quite the same thing. Conceptually similar, yes, but a root user can do so, so much more damage to the system than an admin user can. Also in Windows 7 at least, while you need to have an account with admin rights you don't get even a prompt when you try to change the date time. And connecting to a wifi doesn't need admin. I think installing a printer might, but not entirely sure.

Of course, just because Windows does it doesn't mean it's OK for Linux to have the same problems. ;)
 
Red Falcon said:
...and that's why I use Debian-branch distros. (except Mint, damn noob OS)
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There's nothing wrong with Mint. Not everybody who wants to use Linux wants to do absolutely everything by hand. If you do, that's fine. I used to use Arch, and at no time did I think the worse of anyone using Mint or Ubuntu.

kllrnohj said:
Someone made a good post about how the Linux community doesn't actually *want* to be successful and popular, which is why they do things like shun one of, if not the, most successful consumer applications of Linux - Android.
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I think it's a mix of ideological rigidity and elitism, myself. Any way you cut it, this hostile attitude toward the mainstream has never done the Linux community any favors, and it's a terrible shame.
 
I recently had a work laptop sent to me from a client two time zones away. The laptop is running Window 7 Enterprise, and they set me up as a standard user on the PC for the tests I needed to run.

First thing I had to do was change the time zone so Outlook and our database app would function normally, the next thing I had to do was connect to a wireless network. If these things needed root access, I would have been dead in the water.
 
svet-am said:
Linus isn't being an asshole here -- he's right. I am 100% for security, but security needs to be implemented in such a way that it does not unnecessarily impede the user experience.
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If any other person posted that they were having an issue with linux, the first thing that would be said is to "fix it yourself."
 
I totally agree with him. This goes for any OS/system that keeps prompting for a password to do trivial things. That's actually bad security, because it requires more people to know the root password.

His rants can be so epic too. There is one where he rants about Unity, it's hilarious. But he's right.
 
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