Foxconn Workers Committed Suicide Out of Boredom

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The quote below tells you everything you need to know about the direction of the investigation being conducted by the Fair Labor Association. The facilities at Foxconn are first class and workers are committing suicide out of boredom.

"I was very surprised when I walked onto the floor at Foxconn, how tranquil it is compared with a garment factory," he said. "So the problems are not the intensity and burnout and pressure-cooker environment you have in a garment factory. . It's more a function of monotony, of boredom, of alienation perhaps."
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I doubt they were "bored" working tirelessly for 14 hour shifts or whatever. Probably more like monotony and sense of worthlessness with no escape in sight.
 
All I can think of is South Park:

"This is nothing unusual; cows turn themselves inside out all the time..."
 
As I told Steve when I mailed that link, I've been bored MANY times in my life, but never enough to hurl myself off the roof of a building!
 
Ok so now we just have to wait for the inevitable, "The conditions are too good that's why they're killing themselves." report. :rolleyes:
 
I'm bored. What should I do? Hmmm. What would be fun? Oh, shit! I need to DIE!
 
Well if you were smoking some pot and had a little to drink on the job, I could see this happening. Then again, this is Foxconn we're talking about.
 
It makes sense to me. These people live and work at the same place. They do the same tedious job over and over again for very long hours. They sleep with 4-5 other people. All there is is monotony and a lack of individuality. I doubt many of them have real plans either.
 
This does not really make sense to me. Is this any more boring or grueling than working in a rice patty for 16 hours a day? I mean, these working conditions sound horrible to us, Westerners. But for your typical Chinese person, is it really that bad?
 
SilverSliver said:
This does not really make sense to me. Is this any more boring or grueling than working in a rice patty for 16 hours a day? I mean, these working conditions sound horrible to us, Westerners. But for your typical Chinese person, is it really that bad?
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Hard to kill yourself at ground level in a couple inches of water, so it might not be for lack of trying.
 
Americans during the Industrial Revolution worked 14 hour days and didn't bitch out by killing themselves. We let the crude machinery and no regulations do that for us.
 
SilverSliver said:
This does not really make sense to me. Is this any more boring or grueling than working in a rice patty for 16 hours a day? I mean, these working conditions sound horrible to us, Westerners. But for your typical Chinese person, is it really that bad?
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It depends, do you own the rice patty? The problem is when people see no hope for the future and nothing ever changing. If you own the rice patty then it's easy to believe you will have a good crop this year, and next year you'll own two rice patties. If you're working it, then you believe you can save up enough and buy your own rice paddy.
 
vengence said:
It depends, do you own the rice patty? The problem is when people see no hope for the future and nothing ever changing. If you own the rice patty then it's easy to believe you will have a good crop this year, and next year you'll own two rice patties. If you're working it, then you believe you can save up enough and buy your own rice paddy.
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Not really the point. The typical Foxconn employee probably does not own a rice patty. I'm saying that is a 16 hour shift at Foxconn any worse than a 16 hour shift at some other low wage Chinese place of employment? IE, rice patty, making sneakers, clothes, factory assembly, etc.
 
SilverSliver said:
This does not really make sense to me. Is this any more boring or grueling than working in a rice patty for 16 hours a day? I mean, these working conditions sound horrible to us, Westerners. But for your typical Chinese person, is it really that bad?
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Just because it's better than their alternative doesn't make it ok.
 
Wasn't already shown that Foxconn had a below average suicide rate?
 
the whole situation sucks -- let's just get that out of the way.

Seriously though i think it's funny people are surprised of these conditions and the general price level these people command. Look at the population issues that entire part of the world has. The reason they can get away with paying a worker $10 dollars a day is because they know there are people WILLING to do it that cheap. Combined with a historically strong work ethic, mixed with a social shaming issue... it's the perfect shit storm. Guess what? Nothing you, I, or this country does will stop it short of never buying anything from Apple/others who manufacture there.

Foxxconn isn't a saint company (which ones ever really are?) but they aren't kidnapping people and forcing them to work at gunpoint. If they want things changed, they need to either start a revolution or the entire country needs to walk out on Foxxconn.

Highly unlikely though as there are thousands of people willing (keyword) to work there for peanuts. If there wasn't millions upon millions of people out of work and desperate the supply of labor would be hugely reduced and adjust the equilibrium price accordingly.

I'm tired of hearing of it because it's not my problem - America had it's own industrial strife with terrible conditions, long hours, low pay, etc etc. We found our own way, and so will they.

The most cost effective thing anyone here can do is stop buying shit made at Foxxconn -- how likely is that though?
 
Ah, so this is why Apple out of the blue parroted to the high heavens they were voluntarily allowing "independent" inspectors to tour the facilities to evaluate working conditions.
Anyone can fake the appearance of better working conditions or pay off the right individuals specially in China where bribes and money under the table are the modus operandi for all businesses and the government.

Hell why go around the world when it also happens under your noses, here in the US.

When we get one of those random unannounced JCAHO inspections (if you work in healthcare you should know what this is) we all play our part in the deception at our hospital. I remember once we paged all the med students and told them to go home for the rest of the week. And no, don't act surprised, or appalled because this has been going on for decades.

Everyday standards and working conditions are always lower than what they should be and whenever someone wants to be inspected is because they prepared a staged PR stunt.
 
Team Obi Juan said:
Americans during the Industrial Revolution worked 14 hour days and didn't bitch out by killing themselves. We let the crude machinery and no regulations do that for us.
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During the early industrial revolution you could drink on the job.

Workers' rights only became a big deal once they took that away.

... which is sort of funny and tragic at the same time.
 
Sigh. 'What do you want to do?' 'I don't know. What do you want to do?' 'I don't know...Hey, want to try jumping off the roof and committing suicide?' 'I guess, nothing else worth doing right now anyways.'
 
While the FLA's goals are noble, they do receive pretty much all of their funding from the industries they investigate. So, there is a bit of a conflict of interest problem going on here. Apple signs up with FLA, makes them a donation and says "please investigate this Foxconn issue we have been having".
 
Team Obi Juan said:
Americans during the Industrial Revolution worked 14 hour days and didn't bitch out by killing themselves. We let the crude machinery and no regulations do that for us.
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I don't think we really have a good view into suicide rates during the Industrial Revolution, so unless there are reliable data sources to point to then your assertion is meritless.
 
So if I'm reading this right, we should be protesting against the Kardashians, Olsens, DKNY, Ambercrombie, etc...
 
Steve said:
Show me a company that has had that many suicides....ever....not just in a two year period...I mean ever. :eek:
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It's below average compared to their overall population.

Hell:
the suicide rate at the Chinese factory – where 12 of the company's 400,000 employees have killed themselves this year – was lower than the overall suicide rate for the United States.

According to the World Health Organisation, the average annual suicide rate in the United States is 11.1 people per 100,000 of the population. The most recent statistics available date from 2005.
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Quoted from the telegraph


China's overall population suicide rate is 22.3.
 
Steve said:
Show me a company that has had that many suicides....ever....not just in a two year period...I mean ever. :eek:
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Uh, probably any company with hundreds of thousands of employees is bound to have a number of suicides. The only reason Foxconn stands out is because they are the ones getting the press because of Apple.

It was pointed out nearly two years ago that Foxconn employees commit suicide less often than even the lowest estimates of China's national suicide rate.

Working in China as a Chinese citizen sucks the vast majority of the time compared to working in another country, or even working in China as an American or European where they pay you out the ass and treat you really well. That isn't in dispute.

But all this attention Foxconn is getting is nothing more than media hype and the West flaunting their "superiority" over the Chinese. It's propaganda, basically, and it's a shame that so many of us here who are supposedly intelligent, tech-savvy individuals are falling for it.

Working conditions in China suck compared to the US. But Foxconn is not outside the norm for China. In fact, the workers there are probably better off than most. Tech workers there, even the grunts, are a lot better off than some of the others.

Walmart employs over a million people in the US. Based on US suicide rates, statistically speaking, its almost a certainty that around 100 of them commit suicide every year. But we don't hear about it in the news.

Here's the difference:

Foxconn employees work on a relatively small number of facilities and live on-campus. When someone kills themselves at work in the US, it's a big deal. It rarely happens because suicides tend to happen in a place where the person is comfortable. But US workers don't tend to live and work in the same place. Chinese are going to be much more comfortable killing themselves at work because they spend more time there.

If all Walmart employees were all living and working in like three factories, you'd have a lot of people killing themselves there too. But since Walmart has a billion zillion stores all over, no one really notices when someone kills themselves.

Anyway, it's just a matter of how you portray the statistics. Since there isn't any statistical significance to the suicide rate, they have to fluff it and twist it to make it SEEM significant.
 
Don't commit suicide or we will rape and kill (in either order) your family.
 
Foxconn has nearly a MILLION employees.

A MILLION.

Our western brains have trouble conceptualising that kind of volume of staff, so we focus in on what are, surely tragic, but ultimately statistically insignificant details.

Foxconn has had something like 17 suicides in the last 5 years.

Out of nearly a MILLION employees.

I guarantee you if you picked any large US or European organisation, looked at the last 5 years, and scaled it up to a million, you'd find plenty of suicides.

The reality here is that suicide rates among Foxconn staff are lower than they are in the general population, not just of China, but also of pretty much any western nation, including the US.

Seriously, the most recent figures Wikipedia has for suicide rates in the US is for a couple of years back, and that was 11.8 per 100,000, or 118 per million, or 10 times the suicide rate among Foxconn staff.

Chinas suicide rate is twice the USs, so you are still 5 times less likely to kill yourself in china if you work for Foxconn.

Shit, I guess someone needs to check US living conditions.
 
MartinX said:
Foxconn has nearly a MILLION employees.

A MILLION.

Our western brains have trouble conceptualising that kind of volume of staff, so we focus in on what are, surely tragic, but ultimately statistically insignificant details.

Foxconn has had something like 17 suicides in the last 5 years.

Out of nearly a MILLION employees.

I guarantee you if you picked any large US or European organisation, looked at the last 5 years, and scaled it up to a million, you'd find plenty of suicides.

The reality here is that suicide rates among Foxconn staff are lower than they are in the general population, not just of China, but also of pretty much any western nation, including the US.

Seriously, the most recent figures Wikipedia has for suicide rates in the US is for a couple of years back, and that was 11.8 per 100,000, or 118 per million, or 10 times the suicide rate among Foxconn staff.

Chinas suicide rate is twice the USs, so you are still 5 times less likely to kill yourself in china if you work for Foxconn.

Shit, I guess someone needs to check US living conditions.
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Edit: 20 times less likely to kill yourself if you are Chinese and work for Foxconn.
 
MartinX said:
Foxconn has nearly a MILLION employees.

A MILLION.

Our western brains have trouble conceptualising that kind of volume of staff, so we focus in on what are, surely tragic, but ultimately statistically insignificant details.

Foxconn has had something like 17 suicides in the last 5 years.

Out of nearly a MILLION employees.

I guarantee you if you picked any large US or European organisation, looked at the last 5 years, and scaled it up to a million, you'd find plenty of suicides.

The reality here is that suicide rates among Foxconn staff are lower than they are in the general population, not just of China, but also of pretty much any western nation, including the US.

Seriously, the most recent figures Wikipedia has for suicide rates in the US is for a couple of years back, and that was 11.8 per 100,000, or 118 per million, or 10 times the suicide rate among Foxconn staff.

Chinas suicide rate is twice the USs, so you are still 5 times less likely to kill yourself in china if you work for Foxconn.

Shit, I guess someone needs to check US living conditions.
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You should say that Foxconn has 10 million employees. So its really the happiest place on Earth!
 
"Over three weeks, some 35,000 workers will be interviewed about 30 at a time to answer questions anonymously, entering their responses onto Apple iPads."


I think the last 6 words in that sentence says everything we need to know about the situation.
 
Ididar said:
"Over three weeks, some 35,000 workers will be interviewed about 30 at a time to answer questions anonymously, entering their responses onto Apple iPads."


I think the last 6 words in that sentence says everything we need to know about the situation.
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I think that is really unfair of you to say. This is not a personal attack but really? Put this in perspective- Would you rather have 30 at a time raise your hand in a room full of corporate executives or would you have something that they BUILD and have a decent understanding of put in front of them to answer questions. I have no statistics but how many know how to read and right? they probably have someone reading the answer and say hey push this if it is your answer. This simplifies the process.

As to everyone else on this forum, I'm glad to see that you are taking a active interest in this situation. Any loss of life is tragic and will continue to happen for the rest of our lives and longer. However the unfair part of this story is how this story tends to zoom in on one company in front of Foxconn, which would be Apple. Yes Apple's products are overpriced and sometimes build shoddy. Can you imagine if the products were slowed up and the inventory reduced due to safety regulations. I guarantee you 75% of us techies would lose our damn mind that the product was PROMISED but didn't arrive. Either stop putting your two cents into an issue that you are aggressor to or actually make change, don't argue when your product comes in late. I'd rather see the new Ipad 3 a few months later in favor of better working conditions. If the workers are given more breaks, less hours, etc I guarantee the product you are buying will be BETTER because they might give a crap if it was built right.
 
TheSoldier said:
I think that is really unfair of you to say. This is not a personal attack but really? Put this in perspective- Would you rather have 30 at a time raise your hand in a room full of corporate executives or would you have something that they BUILD and have a decent understanding of put in front of them to answer questions. I have no statistics but how many know how to read and right? they probably have someone reading the answer and say hey push this if it is your answer. This simplifies the process.

As to everyone else on this forum, I'm glad to see that you are taking a active interest in this situation. Any loss of life is tragic and will continue to happen for the rest of our lives and longer. However the unfair part of this story is how this story tends to zoom in on one company in front of Foxconn, which would be Apple. Yes Apple's products are overpriced and sometimes build shoddy. Can you imagine if the products were slowed up and the inventory reduced due to safety regulations. I guarantee you 75% of us techies would lose our damn mind that the product was PROMISED but didn't arrive. Either stop putting your two cents into an issue that you are aggressor to or actually make change, don't argue when your product comes in late. I'd rather see the new Ipad 3 a few months later in favor of better working conditions. If the workers are given more breaks, less hours, etc I guarantee the product you are buying will be BETTER because they might give a crap if it was built right.
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Edit- Read and Write
 
MartinX said:
I guarantee you if you picked any large US or European organisation, looked at the last 5 years, and scaled it up to a million, you'd find plenty of suicides.
Click to expand...


I accept that challenge....NAME ONE U.S. company that had people commiting suicide to protest work conditions. Go ahead, we'll wait. :rolleyes:


I'll go one further and name the biggest companies in our country with ZERO people jumping off the roofs.

Walmart = 2,000,000
McDonalds = 1,700,000
IBM = 400,000
Target = 355,000
Intel = 92,000
HP = 324,000
Pepsi = 294,000
UPS = 405,000
AT&T = 266,000
GM = 210,000
Home Depot = 320,000

Cox = 75,000
Butt Grocery = 160,000

I even added Cox and Butt because if ever there was a company name that would make you jump off a roof...

PLEASE...go ahead and name those companies you GUARANTEE have suicide rates like Foxconn.



(disclaimer: I'm not being a dick, I am merely stating that the only reason this is news is because IT IS A BIG DEAL, and it isn't happening everywhere)
 
Maximus825 said:
It makes sense to me. These people live and work at the same place. They do the same tedious job over and over again for very long hours. They sleep with 4-5 other people. All there is is monotony and a lack of individuality. I doubt many of them have real plans either.
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X2

I was hired at a factory doing crappy little part assemblies (threading a nut onto a bolt) right out of Highschool. I went in my first day and it was also my last day... no thank you. I'd rather do back breaking manual labor, long as it's not the same repetitive motion all day long. I have a lot of respect for people that can deal with that.

If these people 'live to work' at a place like this with very little chance of moving up in the company and with so many people willing to fill your position for peanuts, It's got to be depressing knowing that you'll be doing that, likely, for the rest of your life. It's got to feel like a hopeless situation.
 
As far as Foxconn having lower than the national average suicides, that argument is lame. Why?

Chinese suicide rate = thousands of diferent reasons for commiting suicide

Foxconn suicide rate = the SAME reason over and over and over.

That is why this gets press, not "suicides get press because of Apple." Seriously?

Anyhow, maybe its just me. I hang out with the kind of people that, when they hear about mass suicides over inhumae working conditions, say "damn, that's terrible" not people that instantly start making excuses for / defending the company (unless he's my lawyer).
 
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