Linux Won't Work On Systems Running Windows 8?

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Matthew Garret, a developer at Red Hat, says that a Windows 8 system that ships with only OEM and Microsoft keys will not boot a generic copy of Linux. Mr. Garret went on to say that it's probably not worth panicking yet but you should be "concerned."

There's no indication that Microsoft will prevent vendors from providing firmware support for disabling this feature and running unsigned code. However, experience indicates that many firmware vendors and OEMs are interested in providing only the minimum of firmware functionality required for their market. It's almost certainly the case that some systems will ship with the option of disabling this. Equally, it's almost certainly the case that some systems won't.
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And they care why? If the user is so concerned on running Linux, the obvious solution is to not buy a system that disables/can't run these features? It's like saying "Oh why won't Crysis work on my AMD Vision computer?"
 
Oh noez! don't take our nix support! FALSE! I don't care about linux. the desktop os where 90% of users need to dual boot with windows anyways. Just pick an os that works with everything. linux performs really poorly compared to windows 7 on decent hardware its just sad its still in circulation at this point being advocated as a desktop os.
 
gaspah said:
linux performs really poorly compared to windows 7 on decent hardware its just sad its still in circulation at this point being advocated as a desktop os.
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LOL, obviously never used Linux.
 
gaspah said:
Oh noez! don't take our nix support! FALSE! I don't care about linux. the desktop os where 90% of users need to dual boot with windows anyways. Just pick an os that works with everything. linux performs really poorly compared to windows 7 on decent hardware its just sad its still in circulation at this point being advocated as a desktop os.
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This is quite a post.
 
Well, after many years without using it - I used Slackware back in the day - I tried Ubuntu. And yes, it was a lot slower than Win7 on the same machine. I just gave up.

I guess I had too much free time to read all the HOIWTOs on a text interface when I was 14 years old. LOL.
 
cdr_74_premium said:
Well, after many years without using it - I used Slackware back in the day - I tried Ubuntu. And yes, it was a lot slower than Win7 on the same machine. I just gave up.

I guess I had too much free time to read all the HOIWTOs on a text interface when I was 14 years old. LOL.
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A.) Ubuntu is a bloated piece of shit.
B.) Ubuntu has been equally as fast on Windows 7 on every computer I've used.
 
Kaitian said:
And they care why? If the user is so concerned on running Linux, the obvious solution is to not buy a system that disables/can't run these features? It's like saying "Oh why won't Crysis work on my AMD Vision computer?"
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Haha, that won't fly here. This is anti-walled garden land, where the practice of not allowing other things to run on their systems earns undying hatred for Apple... oh wait, this is Microsoft, no problem then.
 
Linux is for super-geeks that are too cheep to pay for software, and use it so they feel smater then everyone else like a virtual penis enlargement. I doubt any of them will ever buy a Dell or HP anyways if they wont even bother to buy software.

Keep your OpenOffice, your Gimp, and your fragmented OS. I tried it all, and was left wanting. Sure it may be faster, but who cares when you cant even properly open Word docs.
 
Slackware here... and not only does my e17 desktop load faster then windows, but my virtual 7 in workstation 8, loads faster then the real OS on the same machine. (dual boot 7/Slack)

I'm not worried about this, nor do I believe it will come to pass, microsoft may be looking at ways to try and prevent malware... but something like this would be considered to anti-competitive by requiring the oems to do it.
 
Gibbage said:
Linux is for super-geeks that are too cheep to pay for software, and use it so they feel smater then everyone else like a virtual penis enlargement. I doubt any of them will ever buy a Dell or HP anyways if they wont even bother to buy software.
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Wanting something stable, reliable, virus free, etc. is obviously not an excuse. On top of that, the fact that this alternative happens to be free makes me cheap. It's amazing how much I learn about myself every day.

Gibbage said:
Keep your OpenOffice, your Gimp, and your fragmented OS. I tried it all, and was left wanting. Sure it may be faster, but who cares when you cant even properly open Word docs.
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Hmm, that's funny. I open *.doc and *.docx files frequently in OO without issues, among others.

We're the ones trying to sound smart though. Of course I have no idea what I'm talking about :rolleyes:
 
Jesse B said:
A.) Ubuntu is a bloated piece of shit.
B.) Ubuntu has been equally as fast on Windows 7 on every computer I've used.
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I really tried to like Linux again. I'm not saying this from a MS Fanboy perspective. It was just my perception that the machine was considerably slower. My wife couldn't understand why I was even trying that.

That was on a AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200, 7200rpm SATA drive, 4GB DDR2 800MHz RAM, GeForce 9800gt. Nothing fancy, but runs 7 nicely.

I'm willing to try some desktop AND server linux version, preferably one that has some GUI functionality (I remember my old Slackware days... I'm too old for that). Any tips?
 
Oh noez! don't take our nix support! FALSE! I don't care about linux. the desktop os where 90% of users need to dual boot with windows anyways. Just pick an os that works with everything. linux performs really poorly compared to windows 7 on decent hardware its just sad its still in circulation at this point being advocated as a desktop os.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO7NWDpr1PY&feature=related

There's no indication that Microsoft will prevent vendors from providing firmware support for disabling this feature and running unsigned code.
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Mmhmm.
 
Jesse B said:
Wanting something stable, reliable, virus free, etc. is obviously not an excuse. On top of that, the fact that this alternative happens to be free makes me cheap. It's amazing how much I learn about myself every day.
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If you get viruses on a Windows machine it is entirely due to user error. Stability is either user error or driver issues, the latter of which is not entirely uncommon in *nix OSes either. Linux is cool, but the people that bitch about viruses on Windows are the same people that open every bloody attachment they get and visit a billion shady porn sites and wonder why they have problems.
 
Would this block live boot CDs also? because that would be MAJOR problem for my PC repair shop.
 
gaspah said:
Oh noez! don't take our nix support! FALSE! I don't care about linux. the desktop os where 90% of users need to dual boot with windows anyways. Just pick an os that works with everything. linux performs really poorly compared to windows 7 on decent hardware its just sad its still in circulation at this point being advocated as a desktop os.
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:rolleyes:
I use it, even though I have had a few issues with it, and I ENJOY it. Some people enjoy gaming, some people enjoy Photoshopping memes, some people just look at pictures of cats all day. You don't like it? Well then use Windows. I think Windows is a great operating system, and i generally don't have much issue with it. Your opinion is not my opinion, and opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one, and nobody is interested in yours or mine.
 
cdr_74_premium said:
I really tried to like Linux again. I'm not saying this from a MS Fanboy perspective. It was just my perception that the machine was considerably slower. My wife couldn't understand why I was even trying that.

That was on a AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200, 7200rpm SATA drive, 4GB DDR2 800MHz RAM, GeForce 9800gt. Nothing fancy, but runs 7 nicely.

I'm willing to try some desktop AND server linux version, preferably one that has some GUI functionality (I remember my old Slackware days... I'm too old for that). Any tips?
Click to expand...

arch.. its the best for everything. if you can read, you can install it.
 
Kaitian said:
And they care why? If the user is so concerned on running Linux, the obvious solution is to not buy a system that disables/can't run these features? It's like saying "Oh why won't Crysis work on my AMD Vision computer?"
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It's not that Linux couldn't run on those machines, it's just that a generic copy won't. Meaning, some hacking is needed. Meaning, another loop for people to jump throw to try out linux.

I run windows exclusively on my PCs at home, but I want more people running linux. The more people that do, the more software gets made for it, and then I can run linux on my machines.. exclusively.

It's just another way to deter people from using their personal computer beyond what manufacturers want you to. BTW, this probably also prevents the installation of Windows 9 or Windows XP probably.

The good news is that, there's another reason to hate Windows 8. :D
 
Ashbringer said:
It's not that Linux couldn't run on those machines, it's just that a generic copy won't. Meaning, some hacking is needed. Meaning, another loop for people to jump throw to try out linux.

I run windows exclusively on my PCs at home, but I want more people running linux. The more people that do, the more software gets made for it, and then I can run linux on my machines.. exclusively.

It's just another way to deter people from using their personal computer beyond what manufacturers want you to. BTW, this probably also prevents the installation of Windows 9 or Windows XP probably.

The good news is that, there's another reason to hate Windows 8. :D
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Yeah thats great news... :rolleyes:
 
gaspah said:
linux performs really poorly compared to windows 7 on decent hardware its just sad its still in circulation at this point being advocated as a desktop os.
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That's why most of everything you use runs linux. Your router, most phones, and lets not forget most* of the internet. The games you play online connect to those linux servers, and lets not forget our favorite search engine, Google.

There are a lot of instances where Ubuntu will outperform Windows 7. It boots way faster, and has loads of hardware support. Some OpenGL Windows games run faster in Wine under Ubuntu, then they do in Windows 7. Though, the same can't be said about Direct 3D, which uses a wrapper to run those games. Which puts a huge strain on the system.

Linux doesn't have the support that Windows gets with its graphics drivers. They're buggy, behind the Windows version, and behind linux innovations. Though that maybe why there's a lot of effort in getting fast Open Source drivers, which currently only do at best 1/10th the performance of ATI and Nvidia drivers.
 
Open Office.......... I really tried to like it... but maybe it's not properly compatible with Windows... when I tried it, it allowed me to tab 5 feet off my document.
 
Did anyone read the article?

If so did anyone notice the problem far worse than Linux not being able to be installed?

HARDWARE that you install on these have to be signed also. So that means you can't just buy a dell PC and decide down the road that you want to replace that video card with something better unless Dell has agreed to let you do so.

This is in no way Microsoft's fault here, they just want the computer to support a form of security, they don't say that it has to ONLY be that way. If the motherboard makers put 1 option in there to enable / disable this feature then it isn't a problem. Go bitch to them not Microsoft.
 
Ashbringer said:
That's why most of everything you use runs linux. Your router, most phones, and lets not forget most* of the internet. The games you play online connect to those linux servers, and lets not forget our favorite search engine, Google.

There are a lot of instances where Ubuntu will outperform Windows 7. It boots way faster, and has loads of hardware support. Some OpenGL Windows games run faster in Wine under Ubuntu, then they do in Windows 7. Though, the same can't be said about Direct 3D, which uses a wrapper to run those games. Which puts a huge strain on the system.

Linux doesn't have the support that Windows gets with its graphics drivers. They're buggy, behind the Windows version, and behind linux innovations. Though that maybe why there's a lot of effort in getting fast Open Source drivers, which currently only do at best 1/10th the performance of ATI and Nvidia drivers.
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For non-- desktop use Linux is amazing. I can't really think of any reason to pick WinServer over Linux for server use. For desktop use Linux is a cool geek toy, but it's really not for the average user. It can be configured and used by the average user, but when a problem arises the average user is shit out of luck unless they have someone handy. Troubleshooting Linux can be a lot more complex than Windows and based on what I've seen most of the community sucks and acts like stuck up pricks because they feel superior just due to their OS choice (huh, sounds a lot like what people accuse Apple owners of doesn't it?). Maybe that has changed in the last few years, but the over-all community for the distros I've tried over the years have always left a bad taste in my mouth. In a highly controlled work enviroment I think Linux could be really useful as long as the IT department know what they're doing and actually keep good control on how badly users can screw things up, but for home use I don't think we'll ever see it reach the level Windows has now, at least as thing stands now.
 
From what last I read this only applies to the ARM based tablets. Nothing else that runs x86. And second, I can already enable or disable a secure boot environment on my Precision mobile workstation running Windows 7. It's off by default, but you can turn it on under the UEFI settings anytime you want.

This is a whole 'lotta do about nothin'
 
Derangel said:
For non-- desktop use Linux is amazing. I can't really think of any reason to pick WinServer over Linux for server use. For desktop use Linux is a cool geek toy, but it's really not for the average user. It can be configured and used by the average user, but when a problem arises the average user is shit out of luck unless they have someone handy. Troubleshooting Linux can be a lot more complex than Windows and based on what I've seen most of the community sucks and acts like stuck up pricks because they feel superior just due to their OS choice (huh, sounds a lot like what people accuse Apple owners of doesn't it?). Maybe that has changed in the last few years, but the over-all community for the distros I've tried over the years have always left a bad taste in my mouth. In a highly controlled work enviroment I think Linux could be really useful as long as the IT department know what they're doing and actually keep good control on how badly users can screw things up, but for home use I don't think we'll ever see it reach the level Windows has now, at least as thing stands now.
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I totally agree with you. Linux currently is in no shape for end users just yet. Last I checked the community is very stuck up, and if anything does go wrong, you're up a creek with no paddle. These are things that can be changed, but for now the linux community wants to keep the OS to themselves. As I've been told, they want it to stay complicated so only they use it. I've tried talking to the linux community about getting real games on the platform, and not just open source games. They completely took a dump on me, and told me to buy a game console.

Those linux is amazing, and if there's any testament to it's abilities then these are it.

Boot comparison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejmR3zBayos&feature=related
Generic Tests - sorry not a lot of comparisons of Ubuntu and Windows 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=973z2L01ilM
Compiz 3D effects
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5baDknt6Z7w
 
Anyone who rolls their own linux probably builds their own PC, and I doubt enthusiast mobos will be limited in their boot options for a long time to come...
 
I was actually day dreaming today, wondering if Win8 would have a locked bootloader. I don't think I'd mind a tablet with unity.
 
Odd, I play almost all my steam games and the BF3 beta on linux just fine, only BF2/BFBC2 and Starcraft2 are forcing me to boot windows to play them, which has resulted in me playing them a little less but not too bad.

Wouldn't mind an SLI hack for 890FX chipset that worked on linux though...
 
Just when I was lamenting MS running out of ideas because they're reduced to putting a phone UI on Win8, I find out that MS is planning on killing the BIOS and dragging Linux down with it.
 
Stone Cold said:
Just when I was lamenting MS running out of ideas because they're reduced to putting a phone UI on Win8, I find out that MS is planning on killing the BIOS and dragging Linux down with it.
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How? This is the FUCKING OEM not microsoft. Microsoft doesn't make hardware, they don't make bios, they don't make the motherboard they don't make any of that. They ask for feature X to be possible. IF THE FUCKING OEM decide to make it so that on is the only possible option, this features is possible already, nobdy is forcing you to lock it on only. But this article is bitching about how they only think OEMs will give you the option of on an no other option. That isn't Microsoft's fault if that happens.
 
gaspah said:
Oh noez! don't take our nix support! FALSE! I don't care about linux. the desktop os where 90% of users need to dual boot with windows anyways. Just pick an os that works with everything. linux performs really poorly compared to windows 7 on decent hardware its just sad its still in circulation at this point being advocated as a desktop os.
Click to expand...

That's not necessarily true, some distros are more bloated than others. Linux Mint 11 Katya if fucking fast, even in a VM :)
 
gaspah said:
Oh noez! don't take our nix support! FALSE! I don't care about linux. the desktop os where 90% of users need to dual boot with windows anyways. Just pick an os that works with everything. linux performs really poorly compared to windows 7 on decent hardware its just sad its still in circulation at this point being advocated as a desktop os.
Click to expand...

There's a lot of *nix hate in this thread. That 90% chunk of users must all be gamers, cause really outside of that there's nothing you can do with windows that you can't do in some way with osx or a linux distro. I know if I did not game I would use Linux on my main workstation. Anything I could remotely need with Windows could be handled by VM.

The biggest problem with Linux on the desktop (for the everyman) is application support, there's just not a lot of shit for it and the same issue applies with OSX. That pretty much gives the cold shoulder to the enterprise market. I think Linux could be HUGE in the public sector due to no licensing costs but most places billing / management software is Win exclusive.
 
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