Microsoft Prepares Quad Core Tablet

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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May 9, 2000
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When you come into the game late and bringing up the rear, it’s always a good strategy to come armed to the teeth and ready to rumble when you decide to finally enter the game. This appears to be Microsoft’s strategy with its quad core entry, coming in with guns blazing. The tablet is expected to be released in conjunction with the debut of Windows 8.

Redmond is expected to start handing out prototypes of the new tablets soon even if the product is not due for commercial release for many months
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I'm actually looking forward to this, if windows 8 works out the way they say, I'll probably drop android and switch over to a windows, but will wait for the [H] real world reviews first before i decide
 
ugh... from fud. I look forward to this. Lets see if MS takes a book out of acer/asus/etc. and releases a sub $500.
 
my questioin is what is the real need for a quad core tablet. That will just push the price to high for many users. I see no real reason to have that kind of cpu for a tablet.
 
In order to use multi-cpu, your system needs to be programmed for it. Android really is not optimized for dual core, let alone quad! Windows on the otherhand has been using multi-core technology for well over 15 years! Lets just say, if there is ANY company that knows how to take advantage of multi-cpu's, its MS. What they have done with Wp7 on a single core is amazing. I have an HD2 and have run both Android and WP7 on it, and with the same hardware, WP7 runs rings around Android, so its safe to say they know how to use ARM CPU's as well.
 
Gibbage said:
In order to use multi-cpu, your system needs to be programmed for it. Android really is not optimized for dual core, let alone quad! Windows on the otherhand has been using multi-core technology for well over 15 years! Lets just say, if there is ANY company that knows how to take advantage of multi-cpu's, its MS. What they have done with Wp7 on a single core is amazing. I have an HD2 and have run both Android and WP7 on it, and with the same hardware, WP7 runs rings around Android, so its safe to say they know how to use ARM CPU's as well.
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Came here to pretty much say this. If they can make the tablets compatible with all other MS devices, too (phones, Kinect, seamless networking with PCs, etc.), they could have a real winner on their hands.

However, I'm not sure any program that uses all 4 cores will be kind to the battery life. I think we're a die shrink and process improvement away from that. Still, I hope they come out swinging hard.
 
There'll be artist renders and interesting promotional videos, then Microsoft will cancel it before any alpha hardware is actually created.
 
aero449 said:
There'll be artist renders and interesting promotional videos, then Microsoft will cancel it before any alpha hardware is actually created.
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Your crazy. Yes, MS canned a few small projects, but when have they ever canned an entire OS? Tablets are here, and they are big. If MS doesent get into this game, they will be way behind the curv, and let Apple and Google walk all over them. Do you really think they would ever let that happen.... AGAIN? (Windows Phone).
 
PiSquared said:
Came here to pretty much say this. If they can make the tablets compatible with all other MS devices, too (phones, Kinect, seamless networking with PCs, etc.), they could have a real winner on their hands.

However, I'm not sure any program that uses all 4 cores will be kind to the battery life. I think we're a die shrink and process improvement away from that. Still, I hope they come out swinging hard.
Click to expand...

For low to moderate loads, more cores at lower clockspeed and core voltage will be more efficient than a single core at full load and max vcore since total power draw is based on the frequency and the square of the voltage.
 
PiSquared said:
Came here to pretty much say this. If they can make the tablets compatible with all other MS devices, too (phones, Kinect, seamless networking with PCs, etc.), they could have a real winner on their hands.
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With Windows 8 going ARM it's really tough imagining that Windows Phone won't go there as well eventually. I'm thinking that Windows Phone 8 or the version after will be based on Windows, not Windows CE. There's an just a ton of opportunity here I think but Microsoft's execution will be the key especially coming out of the gate. What will they really have? There's a long road to plow before we can determine if Windows 8 will be successful. a LOT will hinge on that first public beta. It has to go off without a major hitch like the Windows 7 beta. I expect the first public beta to be at least as production ready as the first and only Windows 7 public beta if not even a tad bit better. It's got to come out of the gate looking good in that first public beta, it's ULTRA critical that the beta is a smooth launch.

I do wonder when that first public beta will be. I would imagine it's going to be during the Build conference, I just believe that Microsoft has got Windows 8 in good enough shape to deploy widely now, they need to get the beta into as many hands as fast as they can with something to put a smile on their face, a big task indeed. Windows 8 is the single most important release in the history of Microsoft, bar none. It HAS to do well. It just can't be another Vista and needs even go beyond Windows 7. Windows 8 might be anything from too little to late to redefining tablets and upping Microsoft's fortune. There's just so much riding on this release and its just going to e be fascinating how this all plays out.
 
Gibbage said:
In order to use multi-cpu, your system needs to be programmed for it. Android really is not optimized for dual core, let alone quad! Windows on the otherhand has been using multi-core technology for well over 15 years! Lets just say, if there is ANY company that knows how to take advantage of multi-cpu's, its MS. What they have done with Wp7 on a single core is amazing. I have an HD2 and have run both Android and WP7 on it, and with the same hardware, WP7 runs rings around Android, so its safe to say they know how to use ARM CPU's as well.
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...what... the... bloody... hell....

Um.

You do realize that there's a good reason Microsoft Windows basically has no presence what-so-ever in the mass-super-computer market, right? You know, the Supercomputer market that's largely represented by say... http://www.top500.org/

You do realize that Microsoft's NT kernels, bar none, have the WORST multi-processor performance scaling?

You do realize that the few Microsoft Systems on that list don't use a stock NT kernel, but use a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT KERNEL? Right?

And you want to ... somehow... claim... here... on one of the premier hardware / software sites... in the world... that Microsoft knows what they are doing with Multicore systems.

Um. No.

Just. No.

You might get away with that on Anandtech. Not here.

Now, if you want to talk about specifics, say the Windows CE Core... which oh-by-the-way Windows Phone 7 actually uses... it's not an NT core... against the Android Linux Core... you'll likely find yourself on the loosing end there to.

For starters, Microsoft's been optimizing WinCE against ARM for a pretty long time. They even have a community page for WinCE: http://www.arm.com/community/partners/display_company/rw/CompanyId/243/

Now, to get to the specific point of the product you mentioned, according to HTC's official page, the HD2 doesn't come with WP7 or Android. It comes with Windows Mobile-6.5... in both the UK and the US: http://www.htc.com/europe/product/hd2/specification.html :: http://www.htc.com/us/products/t-mobile-hd2/#tech-specs

So, that means you had to load the operating systems separately of their default installs.

So. Where did you get your Android Install from?

Did you compile the Android Code from Source and optimize it for the Snapdragon Processor? http://source.android.com/

Or did you grab a pre-compile rom... of which... oh-by-the-way... there's a freaking ton of compatible roms that I found with a quick Google search... say like this site: http://android.hd2roms.com/

How can you claim that the Android Rom you have is optimized? Was it compiled for Snapdragon Multi-core? Is the Linux kernel in an SMP mode? Or are you booting in a single-core mode?

The fact is, I've caught you talking out of your butt. You make rubbish performance claims and praise the great and Almighty Microsoft... and I haven't even gotten to the larger problems with your post. So I'll get to those next:

By the time Windows 8 arrives, Quad-Core ARM processors will already be on the market. Keep in mind the sheer number of ARM licensees: http://www.arm.com/products/processors/licensees.php

How many of those make their own physical chips? Don't know? Let me just run them down for you:

Nvidia has Tegra / Project Denver

Marvell has PXA/Armada

Apple has their A4 and A5 processors, with A6 being produced by TSMC

Broadcom has an ARM chip lineup,

Samsung makes Apple's current A4 and A5 ARM chips in addition to it's own

Google+Motorola have their own ARM chip production

Texas Instruments has OMAP, though to be fair, both AMD and Broadcom have been looking at purchasing OMAP from Ti.

Then there's Qualcom... which has Snapdragon.

Do you seriously expect anybody to believe that all of these vendors are going to sit on their tails and do absolutely nothing while they wait for Microsoft to finish tuning NT6.5 for ARM processors? What about all of the companies that buy those processors and put them in products consumers actually buy? You know... companies like HTC?

Can Microsoft really afford to bribe every single Original Design Manufacturer, Original Equipment Manufacture, and Software Developer... to just do nothing while they wait on Windows 8 to finalize?

Let's go with a: No they can not.

The reality for Microsoft is that even if they get Windows 8 out on market, on time, applications written for Apple IOS and Linux-Android/Linux-Chromium will already have long been optimized for multi-core processing, and will be able to make full use of their underlying kernel's abilities to leverage SMP capabilities.

Microsoft's chances in the mobile market are... let's face it... rather bleak. Microsoft's future as a company is also rather bleak.

Keep in mind, no part of Microsoft has been profitable other than it's Office licensing division and it's Operating System Licensing division. No, not even the Home and Entertainment division... and yes, I will bring up that Microsoft wrote off several billion dollars as non-recoverable losses just on the original Xbox alone, neverminding the 2.something billion write-off on the 360's Red Ring of Death.

With Google's Purchase of Motorola Wireless, including Motorola's patent pool, it's looking like Microsoft's plan to implement a tax on every single Android phone sold just got squelched.

Microsoft has the unfortunate position that their business model is based on a tax. Microsoft's sole source of funds have been consumers buying computers with no other choice than to pay Microsoft for an operating system. With Microsoft's entire business model slowly evaporating down the drain, it's no longer a question of if the company will go under, but when.

The reality for Microsoft is that WP7 won't save them. It won't take long for Android Application developers to get their Applications optimized for multi-core processing. It won't take long for even stock pre-compiled Android Roms with no users modifications to out-run heavily optimized WinCE 7 ROMS on the same hardware.

The reality for Microsoft is that nobody wants WP7. Keep in mind that even with WP7 now available on the market, Microsoft STILL LOST SHARE PERCENTAGE.

Now, will Windows 8 be in the same boat? Will the unification of the mobile kernel / OS with the desktop kernel / OS be enough to save Microsoft as the company exists now?

My guess is a simple: probably not.

Microsoft won't just be entering the market late, they'll be entering it long after their competitors have already changed the target. By the time 3rd Quarter 2012 hits we'll likely be seeing Oct-Core ARM's coupled with RadeonHD licensed GPU architectures driving OpenGL 4.x graphics in Tablets and high-end cellphones. (okay, yes, I know AMD would like to have OpenGL 5.0 in the bag by then, but this scenario does depend on AMD licensing RadeonHD architectures... and I seriously doubt any mobile vendor will be able to turn around a licensed OpenGL 5.0 architecture from AMD and make it fit in a mobile form-factor... plenty of time for somebody to rework the existing Llano/Fusion OpenGL 4.0 architecture into a mobile format though)

Time will tell what really happens...

but right now?

Thinking Microsoft has a chance?

Well... I think you could make a worse bets... granted how in the world you'd bet on Garbage Pail Kids to make a comeback would be beyond me.
 
Saist said:
...what... the... bloody... hell....

Um.

You do realize that there's a good reason Microsoft Windows basically has no presence what-so-ever in the mass-super-computer market, right? You know, the Supercomputer market that's largely represented by say...

blah blah blah blah
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How the hell do you go from a quad core tablet running ARM to a Supercomputer? TOTALLY different things. Those supercomputers are generally made up of multiple computers linked over networks, not a small hand-held device. Its a totally different set of protocols and one Windows never really delt with properly. You simply cant compare the two things! Go crawl back into your water cooled geek cave man, your swatting a fly with a god damn nuke over here! Simply put, in the terms of a END USER MULTI-CORE CAPABLE OS, Microsoft has more experience then anyone.

Next thing your going to do is compare a bicycle to a Lamborghini?
 
Gibbage said:
How the hell do you go from a quad core tablet running ARM to a Supercomputer? TOTALLY different things. Those supercomputers are generally made up of multiple computers linked over networks, not a small hand-held device. Its a totally different set of protocols and one Windows never really delt with properly. You simply cant compare the two things! Go crawl back into your water cooled geek cave man, your swatting a fly with a god damn nuke over here! Simply put, in the terms of a END USER MULTI-CORE CAPABLE OS, Microsoft has more experience then anyone.

Next thing your going to do is compare a bicycle to a Lamborghini?
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a town house to a city?
 
When will people learn that a fucking slate and tablet are not the same thing. Slate, is something like the tab or ipad. Has no keyboard, has no ports just runes some watered down OS. A tablet is an actual computer, it has ports, run a full OS.

Whey they are talking about here are slates.

Only difference is that these slates will actually run a real OS.
 
Saist said:
You do realize that there's a good reason Microsoft Windows basically has no presence what-so-ever in the mass-super-computer market, right? You know, the Supercomputer market that's largely represented by say... http://www.top500.org/
Click to expand...

Uh no. The reason a lot of them are Linux based is because often times the computers on the Top500 list run a very specific task. Windows is a general purpose operating system, for the time being. With Linux, you can customize the kernel. The problem is, for the vast majority of end-users in the server world, no one wants to hire expensive developers to custom tailor their OS and software.

Saist said:
You do realize that Microsoft's NT kernels, bar none, have the WORST multi-processor performance scaling?
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Scaling to what? Maybe past 8 sockets, you're right. But that's a tiny fraction of the market. In my experience with networking, the stock Windows 7 server scales better (up to 4 sockets) than RHEL 6.
 
Exavior said:
When will people learn that a fucking slate and tablet are not the same thing. Slate, is something like the tab or ipad. Has no keyboard, has no ports just runes some watered down OS. A tablet is an actual computer, it has ports, run a full OS.

Whey they are talking about here are slates.

Only difference is that these slates will actually run a real OS.
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which is the real reason why I was most dissappointed with my ASUS Transformer. It always felt a bit lacking in the OS dept (not even going to bother mentioning applications...). I really hope ICS cleans that up (though I am mostly looking forward to seeing what it brings to the 4"+ phones :)).
 
Saist said:
...what... the... bloody... hell....

Um.

Great big snip..

Thinking Microsoft has a chance?

Well... I think you could make a worse bets... granted how in the world you'd bet on Garbage Pail Kids to make a comeback would be beyond me.
Click to expand...

Whoa.. You should like start one of those blog things and talk about that stuff. You could call it Linux and open source, no one really cares but me a few other dorks.
 
Saist said:
...what... the... bloody... hell....


Now, to get to the specific point of the product you mentioned, according to HTC's official page, the HD2 doesn't come with WP7 or Android. It comes with Windows Mobile-6.5... in both the UK and the US: http://www.htc.com/europe/product/hd2/specification.html :: http://www.htc.com/us/products/t-mobile-hd2/#tech-specs

So, that means you had to load the operating systems separately of their default installs.

So. Where did you get your Android Install from?
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FYI: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=17009370#post17009370
 
There's no real need for a quad core tablet in the immediate future. But when Apple releases the iPad 3 with its quad core CPU, the Apple loving iSheep won't be able to shut up about how much better their new religious artefact is than anything else because it has the 'quad cores' and the 'gee bees'. There won't be much real world benefit, but the brain dead Apple zombies will make it necessary for Apple's competitors to adopt quad core CPUs so that they won't be dismissed as inferior. And so the big wheel of marketing and consumer ignorance continues.

Microsoft is probably ensuring that what they have on launch day appears on par with their competitors. It might look like overkill now, but they're not releasing it today. They'll be lauching along side Kal-El Android tablets and the iPad 3.
 
If you're anything but excited about this you're just being a snob.

It's gonna be great, software by all the companies are really advancing rapidly because of the iPad.
 
For those saying there is no need for a quad core tablet (understanding that you actually mean to be saying slate), do you only have a single core in your pc?

This is a great thing. Slates don't have to be this worthless pos that they are now. You can get one that actually has some use to it. You can get a device that gives you most of the functions of a laptop / netbook but in a easier to carry design. Will it fully replace the laptop for everything, no but it would give you something that is easy to carry, lightweight, and allows you to have the full experience of windows just like you would if you were carrying a laptop.

Since we are talking about a full copy of windows it needs to be able to function similar to laptops and computers to keep people from bashing it for being watered down like with windows 7 starter where you can only run 3 programs at a time or whatever the limit is. Desktops and laptops are all multicore, so this slate needs to be multicore to be on par with those and allow you to use it in more or less the same manor.

I've had plenty of people want to know if they could get something like an iPad that would run all their windows programs. Once this comes out it would fill their want.
 
For iPad, the priority is to test a concept, and establish a baseline vague but reasonably understood "leaning towards a consumption device"

After getting confirmation that it is a workable concept with market acceptance,

iPad 2 refine the hardware and baseline OS. It runs on dual-core A5. This is important, just like PC moving from single-core to dual-core, general improvement can be seen many places.

However, it is true that all agree performance-wise dual-core ARM is not at C2D level. The good thing is battery long runtime.

At this stage, most are still gear towards "consumption needs". However, some "creation tools already surfaced.

Quad-Core ARM processors will be there when large-scale "creation tools, productivity and office-tools moving en mass to tablet platforms"

Because at this stage performance wise there is a distance between modern ARM and modern x86 processors. Having quad-core ARM processors help by moving environment to heavy multi-threading.

(A different frequently expressed counter-idea is Dual-core high-clock such as i3-2100. High clock so you can finish jobs faster and back to idle so 2-core-4-thread is enough for common environment because many programs are still 1 or 2 thread only )

Current ARM processors performance wise may not reach the clock-rate or performance of i3-2100. So doing high-clock dual-core may not be sensible. (high-clock also eats battery as power demand)

So instead of high-clock dual-core, environment will be tuned to system-wide multi-threading balancing. Here quad-core ARM processors become meaningful.

Heavy dependency on full-scale hardware/Software ecosystem implementation. Results pending...
 
IronChef75 said:
There's no real need for a quad core tablet in the immediate future. But when Apple releases the iPad 3 with its quad core CPU, the Apple loving iSheep won't be able to shut up about how much better their new religious artefact is than anything else because it has the 'quad cores' and the 'gee bees'. There won't be much real world benefit, but the brain dead Apple zombies will make it necessary for Apple's competitors to adopt quad core CPUs so that they won't be dismissed as inferior. And so the big wheel of marketing and consumer ignorance continues.

Microsoft is probably ensuring that what they have on launch day appears on par with their competitors. It might look like overkill now, but they're not releasing it today. They'll be lauching along side Kal-El Android tablets and the iPad 3.
Click to expand...

For android, maybe not. But when you're multitasking applications in parallel (as in you have several of them running at once on screen instead of going into the background), you'll be thankful for the multicore. Atleast that's how i felt when i switched from dual core to quad core on the desktop. Dual cores were good for basic multitasking, but quad starts pulling away once you start leaving a ton of applications running in the background and the whole system still runs smooth.
 
Up until now, the PC worlds is basically

"does it work with existing software? does it make office faster? does it beat the benchmark score?"

So high-clock dual-core-four-thread i3-2100 wins because the environment demands it. Nothing wrong.

In the case of Apple iOS and Google Android, they have chosen to ignore everything you know about PC computing. They all start with mobile processors and find new paths. If you want to follow existing tracks, you have hard time meeting Intel-challenge on its own game...

Results, new paths open, life flourish....

As a result, Nokia, Microsoft, Intel, HP, .... now also find new paths ....

At least there is one benefit, energy demand now lower due to improvement everywhere...

However, now MicroKia joins, thus the locking mechanism now in-place Apple/Googlerola/MicroKia , and Samsung / HP / RIM / LG / maybe others

There is benefit to x86 computing what works will continue to prosper.
 
MajorDomo said:
When you come into the game late and bringing up the rear, it’s always a good strategy to come armed to the teeth and ready to rumble when you decide to finally enter the game. This appears to be Microsoft’s strategy with its quad core entry, coming in with guns blazing. The tablet is expected to be released in conjunction with the debut of Windows 8.
Click to expand...

If its better then my iPad2 I will buy one.

I'm not a bigot from either camp.
 
p05ta1 said:
my questioin is what is the real need for a quad core tablet. That will just push the price to high for many users. I see no real reason to have that kind of cpu for a tablet.
Click to expand...

"The need", well, this is the beginning of the end of the
desktop as we know it, say in 5+ years..

Progress marches on.
 
IronChef75 said:
There's no real need for a quad core tablet in the immediate future. But when Apple releases the iPad 3 with its quad core CPU, the Apple loving iSheep won't be able to shut up about how much better their new religious artefact is than anything else because it has the 'quad cores' and the 'gee bees'. There won't be much real world benefit, but the brain dead Apple zombies will make it necessary for Apple's competitors to adopt quad core CPUs so that they won't be dismissed as inferior. And so the big wheel of marketing and consumer ignorance continues.

Microsoft is probably ensuring that what they have on launch day appears on par with their competitors. It might look like overkill now, but they're not releasing it today. They'll be lauching along side Kal-El Android tablets and the iPad 3.
Click to expand...

You know, I hardly ever see apple fanboys act the way you portray them, but what I do see on a daily basis is anti-apple fanboys being even more snide assholes. I don't see any apple fanboys filled with so much hate that they have to insult others in every other post, and even go as far as to wish death upon someone just because he makes products people like and want.

Now taking out the childish remarks in your post, we're left with pretty much nothing, but on the topic of quad cores, I know that dual cores increased battery life a good amount, and I wonder if quad would yield something similar. If so, apple will be all over it as one of their main things they like is their battery life.
 
It all depends on how the Quad core chip is designed. If they are smart, they would turn off 3 of the 4 cores when not needed, and throttle down the single core when idle. You have a lot less flexability when your running a single highly clocked core or dual, and also its not just for the current task's, but FUTURE task's. Tablet and slates are not like desktop's were you can just drop a new CPU in when things are starting to feel a little slow! Once you buy it, thats it. Your stuck with it! You may want to future proof it a little, dont ya think?

Another fact that people seem to be missing. Will ARM Windows 8 run normal Windows software? That in itself is an EXTREME task to ask for an ARM CPU. Programs for windows are developed for x86 or x64 CPU's and cant run nativly on ARM, so Windows 8 will need an emulator. That may be what the quad core is needed for since emulators cant run as well as a native program would. On the otherhand, I cant even emagine how SLOW Office would run on a 1.2ghz quad core CPU thats not even handycapped by ARM or an emilator!
 
Gibbage said:
Will ARM Windows 8 run normal Windows software?
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There can be no automatic compatibility with x86 software. Now a lot of software should run with an easy recompile to ARM and it'll be interesting to see how easily .NET apps migrate.

But the bulk of the stuff that most people are going to want to run on Windows ARM devices will be the new tiles UI touch oriented stuff, basically there's going to need to be a whole new generation of Windows software and I don't see any problem in getting plenty if developers to work on the platform.
 
Gibbage said:
In order to use multi-cpu, your system needs to be programmed for it. Android really is not optimized for dual core, let alone quad! Windows on the otherhand has been using multi-core technology for well over 15 years! Lets just say, if there is ANY company that knows how to take advantage of multi-cpu's, its MS. What they have done with Wp7 on a single core is amazing. I have an HD2 and have run both Android and WP7 on it, and with the same hardware, WP7 runs rings around Android, so its safe to say they know how to use ARM CPU's as well.
Click to expand...

Android not optimized for dual core? Bull-fucking-shit. Between iOS, WP7, and Android, Android is the *most* optimized for multi-core. It's the only one with real multitasking after all. It has a full Linux kernel (which, as we hopefully all know, scales really, really well), and a system architecture that begs to be run on multiple cores. I'll also point out that so far only Google and Apple have shipped an OS running on a multi-core ARM CPU, so MS has the *least* experience there by far. And no, x86's multi-core architecture does not map to ARM's. Two different beasts at the kernel level.

p05ta1 said:
my questioin is what is the real need for a quad core tablet. That will just push the price to high for many users. I see no real reason to have that kind of cpu for a tablet.
Click to expand...

Yeah, fuck progress. The current is all anyone ever needs :rolleyes:

Also, what's this nonsense about "push the price to[sic] high for many users"? You mean kind of like how desktop CPUs keep getting more and more expensive? Oh, wait, they aren't. They are getting faster *and* cheaper over time.
 
kllrnohj said:
I'll also point out that so far only Google and Apple have shipped an OS running on a multi-core ARM CPU, so MS has the *least* experience there by far. And no, x86's multi-core architecture does not map to ARM's. Two different beasts at the kernel level.
Click to expand...

When it comes to software expertise never underestimate Microsoft. I'm sure Windows 8 ARM is something that Microsoft has been working on for many years now, At any rate I would suspect that Microsoft has thought this through and would hopefully not be positioning it's flagship product against the iPad and Android devices unless it knew it had a reasonable chance of success. Windows is now being positioned as Microsoft's TRUE tablet and touch UI solution. It's going to be EXTREMELY interesting.
 
kllrnohj said:
Android not optimized for dual core? Bull-fucking-shit. Between iOS, WP7, and Android, Android is the *most* optimized for multi-core. It's the only one with real multitasking after all.
Click to expand...

Im just not seeing it. Looking at benchmarks, im not seeing any of them showing huge performance differances between single and dual core CPU's. Show me the money! Show me some android benchmarks of a 1.0GHz Snapdragon vs the new 1.2GHz dual core. I have seen a few, and they mostly show a 20% improvement in speed, but again your dealing with a 20% clock boost per core. You SHOULD see double the improvement if Android was truly well optimized for dual core CPU's. Sure its linux based, but its a HIGHLY modified and stripped linux that was developed on single cure ARM CPU's.

Also WP7 is highly optimized for single core operation. Like I said, it spanks the shit out of android on my HD2, and the OS isent even native to my phone! Its amazing what you can do with hardware when its optimized well for a spacific hardware set.
 
heatlesssun said:
When it comes to software expertise never underestimate Microsoft. I'm sure Windows 8 ARM is something that Microsoft has been working on for many years now, At any rate I would suspect that Microsoft has thought this through and would hopefully not be positioning it's flagship product against the iPad and Android devices unless it knew it had a reasonable chance of success. Windows is now being positioned as Microsoft's TRUE tablet and touch UI solution. It's going to be EXTREMELY interesting.
Click to expand...

True, you should never count them out. MS tends to be very stubborn, which sometimes pays off and sometimes doesn't. I seriously doubt Windows 8 ARM is something MS has been working on for "many years" - *maybe* 2 years, but even that is doubtful. I have no doubt they've been playing with ARM (after all, they do have WP7 and WinMo before that), but an actual Windows ARM port for tablets? They likely started on that after the iPad was announced (and possibly not until after it was out) and MS realized they are missing a market.
 
Gibbage said:
Im just not seeing it. Looking at benchmarks, im not seeing any of them showing huge performance differances between single and dual core CPU's. Show me the money! Show me some android benchmarks of a 1.0GHz Snapdragon vs the new 1.2GHz dual core. I have seen a few, and they mostly show a 20% improvement in speed, but again your dealing with a 20% clock boost per core. You SHOULD see double the improvement if Android was truly well optimized for dual core CPU's. Sure its linux based, but its a HIGHLY modified and stripped linux that was developed on single cure ARM CPU's.

Also WP7 is highly optimized for single core operation. Like I said, it spanks the shit out of android on my HD2, and the OS isent even native to my phone! Its amazing what you can do with hardware when its optimized well for a spacific hardware set.
Click to expand...

What benchmarks are you looking at? I'm guessing Quadrant, which - surprise surprise - is single threaded.

And the Android kernel is not as highly modified as you think, nor is it stripped. The things that let the kernel scale, like the thread scheduler, have been there since day 1 as they are needed for single core CPUs as well.
 
Blargh, stupid lack of edit

Gibbage said:
Also WP7 is highly optimized for single core operation. Like I said, it spanks the shit out of android on my HD2, and the OS isent even native to my phone! Its amazing what you can do with hardware when its optimized well for a spacific hardware set.
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Yes and no. Yes, optimizing for a specific hardware set helps, but that specific hardware set is the GPU in this case, not that it is single core. WP7 isn't so much "highly optimized" as it is "simple". It is super fast and responsive because it is really, really, really easy to draw rectangles and solid colors. MS went with a UI design that hardware is really good at drawing, not so much that they insanely optimized things. Likewise, not supporting multitasking allowed them to completely sidestep the process priority and memory management issues.

Nor is it "highly optimized for single core operation" - mainly because you just strung words together in a nonsensical fashion.

To be clear, that isn't a diss at MS. They went with a solid UI that takes into account the hardware that has to drive it. But by no means is that evidence of superior optimization or technical ability in this area, far from it.
 
kllrnohj said:
True, you should never count them out. MS tends to be very stubborn, which sometimes pays off and sometimes doesn't. I seriously doubt Windows 8 ARM is something MS has been working on for "many years" - *maybe* 2 years, but even that is doubtful. I have no doubt they've been playing with ARM (after all, they do have WP7 and WinMo before that), but an actual Windows ARM port for tablets? They likely started on that after the iPad was announced (and possibly not until after it was out) and MS realized they are missing a market.
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MS has very talented engineers working for them with plenty of money backing them up. Two years or not they have been working on windows 7 phone a lot longer. Anyone who thinks MS will not be ready for this is foolish. The support will be continuous and steadily improve the platform and software stack as time goes by.

This is windows we are talking about here.
 
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