Alleged AMD Desktop CPU Roadmap Leaks Out: Ryzen 7000 3D V-Cache In Early 2023

1_rick

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 7, 2017
Messages
5,359
https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7000...00-ryzen-7000g-apus-desktop-cpu-roadmap-leak/

"The next major update to the family will come in the form of the X3D or 3D V-Cache parts which are mentioned but it looks like these chips might slip into early 2023"

The article mentions Threadripper 7000 model numbers appearing in some database somewhere and 7000G APUs coming next year.

It's WCCFTech, so you know, take it as seriously (or not) as you wish.
 
https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-7000...00-ryzen-7000g-apus-desktop-cpu-roadmap-leak/

"The next major update to the family will come in the form of the X3D or 3D V-Cache parts which are mentioned but it looks like these chips might slip into early 2023"

The article mentions Threadripper 7000 model numbers appearing in some database somewhere and 7000G APUs coming next year.

It's WCCFTech, so you know, take it as seriously (or not) as you wish.
If anything those slides would make me think that more 3D variants of the Zen 3 parts, possibly on 6nm instead of 7nm like they have moved the console parts over too.
 
I wonder if the 3D cache version will actually run cooler. Since it's stacked higher, the heatsink spreader does not need to be as thick.
 
early 2023 was always the plan for the 3D variants...they're not going to release those 1 month after the non-3D CPU's
 
early 2023 was always the plan for the 3D variants...they're not going to release those 1 month after the non-3D CPU's
Probably not... but I might take "leaked" benchmarks of them right around the time Intels 13th review embargos lift with a smaller then usual grain of salt. It would be a bit dirty but I am sure it will happen. How early parts actually ship in 2023 probably depends on what 13th gen really looks like.
 
These are what I’m waiting for. If the Zen 3 3D cache improvements are anything to go by, the Zen 4 variants should be a nice upgrade.
 
Since the 7950X got a $100 reduction vs 5950x, I want to believe they plan to slide a potential 7950X3D at the topend for $800-$900... else they had to reduce the price because of 13900K.
 
What AMD needs to do is fix their motherboard pricing. The 7000 series launch is a shit show. Who in their right mind would buy this? Yes it's faster, but the motherboards cost more than some of the CPU's, requires DDR5 which is currently expensive, and runs 95C no matter what cooler you use. You don't want a chip running 95C at all. A CPU running at the temp is just planned obsolescence. The 3D V-Cache should have just been there at release. As it stands right now the 5800X3D is still the better buy. It's cheaper, and that includes motherboard and ram. It's faster in games. It doesn't run 95C. I would probably go for the Ryzen 7 5800X since that's currently $280, and B550's are cheap. Not much slower either.
 
What AMD needs to do is fix their motherboard pricing. The 7000 series launch is a shit show. Who in their right mind would buy this? Yes it's faster, but the motherboards cost more than some of the CPU's, requires DDR5 which is currently expensive, and runs 95C no matter what cooler you use. You don't want a chip running 95C at all. A CPU running at the temp is just planned obsolescence. The 3D V-Cache should have just been there at release. As it stands right now the 5800X3D is still the better buy. It's cheaper, and that includes motherboard and ram. It's faster in games. It doesn't run 95C. I would probably go for the Ryzen 7 5800X since that's currently $280, and B550's are cheap. Not much slower either.
The 670 series boards are to be paired with the 7900 and 7950 for people who want a Threadripper but can’t justify spending the price for a Threadripper.
The 650 boards are for the gamers and general enthusiasts.
The rest can be served by the previous 5000 series products which are still more than viable in todays market.

AMD is pulling from the Intel and Nvidia playbooks. They are starting to carve up their product stacks and put better definition in there.

We can all see the 5800x3d is still a strong gaming contender the 7700x paired with a B650 would be a strong gamer, should they release a 3D variant of it or possibly a 7800x3d it’s going to be a gaming beast that a B650-E would be an awesome match for.
 
Last edited:
Those days have long past. They are in too much demand for AMD to give them away like they used too.
Just hoping under 2k. 24 cores is ideal, but I could make 16 work in a pinch or stretch to 32.
 
What AMD needs to do is fix their motherboard pricing. The 7000 series launch is a shit show. Who in their right mind would buy this? Yes it's faster, but the motherboards cost more than some of the CPU's, requires DDR5 which is currently expensive, and runs 95C no matter what cooler you use. You don't want a chip running 95C at all. A CPU running at the temp is just planned obsolescence. The 3D V-Cache should have just been there at release. As it stands right now the 5800X3D is still the better buy. It's cheaper, and that includes motherboard and ram. It's faster in games. It doesn't run 95C. I would probably go for the Ryzen 7 5800X since that's currently $280, and B550's are cheap. Not much slower either.
I have to agree, add on the fact that you can clearly use a 5800X3D for 4 to 5 years to come and it becomes an even better purchase vs anything 7000 series. AM5's first showing is just not it, no matter how you slice it. And in my opinion the first thing AMD needs to do is drop the arbitrary AM4 cooler compatibility and lower that moronic IHS to a proper height.
 
What AMD needs to do is fix their motherboard pricing. The 7000 series launch is a shit show. Who in their right mind would buy this? Yes it's faster, but the motherboards cost more than some of the CPU's, requires DDR5 which is currently expensive, and runs 95C no matter what cooler you use. You don't want a chip running 95C at all. A CPU running at the temp is just planned obsolescence. The 3D V-Cache should have just been there at release. As it stands right now the 5800X3D is still the better buy. It's cheaper, and that includes motherboard and ram. It's faster in games. It doesn't run 95C. I would probably go for the Ryzen 7 5800X since that's currently $280, and B550's are cheap. Not much slower either.
Under full load. Most CPUs aren’t under full load 24/7, just in benchmarks. Unless you’re folding or doing distributes compute.

You’re right about the cost though- I considered replacing my x399 with this, but by my math matching that hardware would cost $1600- and doesn’t buy me much since the workloads on there aren’t CPU limited (VMs and occasional games and a plex server), and it would hamper expansion as I’d have to use all three slots on the 670 board. That’s a side grade. Not worth the cash - if it dies, I’ll see what to do then.

Agreed on the 5800x3d, unless you need the extra cores for stuff (I tend to, except my dedicated gaming box). Best gaming CPU out there right now.
The 570 series boards are to be paired with the 7900 and 7950 for people who want a Threadripper but can’t justify spending the price for a Threadripper.
The 550 boards are for the gamers and general enthusiasts.
The rest can be served by the previous 5000 series products which are still more than viable in todays market.
*670. And even then we’re still dealing with limited PCIE lanes. I’ve found one board so far with 3 full PCIE slots - even if wired at 4x or 8- the asus ProArt board. Sigh.
 
I have to agree, add on the fact that you can clearly use a 5800X3D for 4 to 5 years to come and it becomes an even better purchase vs anything 7000 series. AM5's first showing is just not it, no matter how you slice it. And in my opinion the first thing AMD needs to do is drop the arbitrary AM4 cooler compatibility and lower that moronic IHS to a proper height.
AM5 isn’t a BAD setup- it’s just not good enough to justify the price given what else is out there. In a vacuum or just against Intel it would be high performing but expensive - but it doesn’t exist in a vacuum. AM4 is still a better buy for most things right now unless you need the absolute last gasp in consumer level non-gaming workloads. Intel- somewhere in between depending on how you feel about the hybrid architecture.
 
Under full load. Most CPUs aren’t under full load 24/7, just in benchmarks. Unless you’re folding or doing distributes compute.

You’re right about the cost though- I considered replacing my x399 with this, but by my math matching that hardware would cost $1600- and doesn’t buy me much since the workloads on there aren’t CPU limited (VMs and occasional games and a plex server), and it would hamper expansion as I’d have to use all three slots on the 670 board. That’s a side grade. Not worth the cash - if it dies, I’ll see what to do then.

Agreed on the 5800x3d, unless you need the extra cores for stuff (I tend to, except my dedicated gaming box). Best gaming CPU out there right now.

*670. And even then we’re still dealing with limited PCIE lanes. I’ve found one board so far with 3 full PCIE slots - even if wired at 4x or 8- the asus ProArt board. Sigh.
You want lanes you gotta pay for them, and even then do you need them because you need them or you think you need them. You might be surprised what the new speeds allow you to do.
 
They have that that’s the 7900 and 7950x
Not enough lanes for what I do, and only the 7950 has enough cores (barely).

Also ram capacities are too low. Both my x299 system and my TRX4 are at 128G and I’m debating on going to 256 soon or adding another x299 box with 128. Both have multiple 10G cards, often SAS or U.2 controllers, etc. x670 is maxed at 128.
 
  • Like
Reactions: noko
like this
You want lanes you gotta pay for them, and even then do you need them because you need them or you think you need them. You might be surprised what the new speeds allow you to do.
I have 8 3.2T optane drives sitting here for a project. Currently at 85T of flash in various forms in NAS. Total core count in the house is about 250. 😁.

So yep- I need them. There are 4 heavily loaded HEDT systems here right now, from x99 through TRX4. Although the x99 Bo’s is just a mega NAS and virtualization host 😂

Paying I’m willing to do - if sane.
 
Not enough lanes for what I do, and only the 7950 has enough cores (barely).

Also ram capacities are too low. Both my x299 system and my TRX4 are at 128G and I’m debating on going to 256 soon or adding another x299 box with 128. Both have multiple 10G cards, often SAS or U.2 controllers, etc. x670 is maxed at 128.
Lanes and throughout are two very different things. But it sounds like you have to jump to Xeon or Threadripper. AMD is carving up its product stack and forcing you to either move up the stack or update your accessories to work over USB 3&4 and PCIe 4 or 5.
 
Lanes and throughout are two very different things. But it sounds like you have to jump to Xeon or Threadripper. AMD is carving up its product stack and forcing you to either move up the stack or update your accessories to work over USB 3&4 and PCIe 4 or 5.
PCIE type isn’t the issue. Its connections. Mass NVMe setups with non-m2 drives is … fun. Heh. And USB definitely won’t do what we need. I’m way off the reservation for normal workloads - but given who I work for, that’s not surprising (I’m in the security space now, out of datacenter infrastructure).
 
I have 8 3.2T optane drives sitting here for a project. Currently at 85T of flash in various forms in NAS. Total core count in the house is about 250. 😁.

So yep- I need them. There are 4 heavily loaded HEDT systems here right now, from x99 through TRX4. Although the x99 Bo’s is just a mega NAS and virtualization host 😂

Paying I’m willing to do - if sane.
Yeah you’re into Xeon territory, I’m decommissioning my E5v3’s next week.
 
Yeah you’re into Xeon territory, I’m decommissioning my E5v3’s next week.
We’re moving those out and moving in Platinum 8260Ls. Trying to snag two to replace my database monster. But the issue there is that I like desktop systems to be multi purpose (a lot of what we do can’t be fed to the cloud, so we tend to build mega desktops to handle it since we can isolate them) if they’re living with me, and a Xeon setup with 2+T of ram sucks for anything but big workloads. Core speeds are too slow. The HEDT platforms were the perfect balance, and surprisingly affordable too.
 
We’re moving those out and moving in Platinum 8260Ls. Trying to snag two to replace my database monster. But the issue there is that I like desktop systems to be multi purpose (a lot of what we do can’t be fed to the cloud, so we tend to build mega desktops to handle it since we can isolate them) if they’re living with me, and a Xeon setup with 2+T of ram sucks for anything but big workloads. Core speeds are too slow. The HEDT platforms were the perfect balance, and surprisingly affordable too.
That’s the problem they were too affordable, AMD lowballed them to get people hooked on the brand then fed it up the line. Classic hook’em while their young strategy.
 
You want lanes you gotta pay for them, and even then do you need them because you need them or you think you need them. You might be surprised what the new speeds allow you to do.
Problem is all the used server gear on eBay that’s semi affordable is still pcie 2.x. Even the newer stuff is still mostly pcie 3 if you’re lucky.
 
Problem is all the used server gear on eBay that’s semi affordable is still pcie 2.x. Even the newer stuff is still mostly pcie 3 if you’re lucky.
And consumer Xeon boards are… finicky. And server boards are even more so.

But yes. Off the rails. Back to the topic at hand!!
 
Problem is all the used server gear on eBay that’s semi affordable is still pcie 2.x. Even the newer stuff is still mostly pcie 3 if you’re lucky.
The used server market is usually for people who have no other options, my options for disposing of my server equipment is either to give it away (donate) or have it recycled by a certified location. I'm not even allowed to sell it. The only times I have had to use it was to make something legacy bootable again to complete a proper decommissioning of it because at that point nobody trusts the platform anymore.
 
And consumer Xeon boards are… finicky. And server boards are even more so.

But yes. Off the rails. Back to the topic at hand!!
To date I have not found a Xeon or EPYC board I enjoyed having to play with, they either work right from the get-go or you struggle with them until the day they fall off the truck in transport never to be seen again.
 
The used server market is usually for people who have no other options, my options for disposing of my server equipment is either to give it away (donate) or have it recycled by a certified location. I'm not even allowed to sell it. The only times I have had to use it was to make something legacy bootable again to complete a proper decommissioning of it because at that point nobody trusts the platform anymore.
For sure. I sourced some used network gear for my FreeNAS server and pfsense boxes, old as shit it is. Works great though.
 
To date I have not found a Xeon or EPYC board I enjoyed having to play with, they either work right from the get-go or you struggle with them until the day they fall off the truck in transport never to be seen again.
Other than as servers- and generally ESXi ones- I’ve not found one I like
 
This is rather frustrating if it turns out to be true, timeline wise.

Ryzen 7000 X3D - If thhey wait until 2023 this had better be a HUGE upgrade over Raptor Lake because its basically giving up a huge amount of time to Intel. Ryzen7000 is impressive all around for the moment, but if Raptor Lake either comes out with parity and/or has a significant uplift in gaming and multiuse then lots of sales over the rest of Q4 are going to go to Intel. If Ryzen 7000 X3D is supposed to take the crown back then it needs to show up ASAP and if they can't do this in Nov/Dec at least for the top end chips for both 1 and 2 CCDs (ie 7700X3D and especially 7950X3D ) then its going to cost them in installed base. If they have to wait until Q1 2023 then even if X3D is good, there are going to be a lot of "ehh i already built Raptor Lake" or "Yeah okay but WHAT ABOUT NEW THING ANNOUNCED AT CES" and AMD will miss their opportunity to lock down a lot of installed base for AM5 which frankly they need more than Intel given Intel can basically flush money down the toilet for fun for several generations and not really care where it goes because of...many reasons.

Threadripper 7000 - This is fucking frustrating too. First of all, if it doesn't show up until half way through 2023 then that's basically paying a huge surplus for what is becoming old technology; this "HEDT coming out when you can see the next generation mainstream just a few months away" shit has to stop. Either release it concurrently/soon after mainstream or at least just after Epyc / Xeon tier stuff that it is likely close to/cut from, but don't dick around until midsummer when a new arch is on the way in the fall! Next, what is the point of Threadripper anymore? The last generation or two of TR / TR Pro is no longer "HEDT high end gaming + content creation overclocking beast with more I/O and extensive features". Instead it has been more "Jr. Server/workstation, heavily multithreaded only extremely expensive and limited" where you had tons of cores but any single core or small group of them couldn't clock to the parity with the best Ryzen chips and thus were not great for gaming/overclocking while also paying a fortune. Why are they bothering to bring Threadripper back of its to play this out again? Simply make "cheaper, only $3000 Epyc" or whatever instead. Otherwise, if this is going to be a return to true High End Desktop then we need to see that and we need it to be released soon, so people who would otherwise be buying a top end 7950X / 7950X3D will see that Threadripper 3D cache is of interest to them again and isn't just exclusively focused on MOAR CORES to the exclusion of everything else and a huge bill to boot.
 
I thought AMD said they were done with ThreadRipper / HEDT based systems....
We don't know. It's mentioned again on the roadmap - and everything looks like Intel is bringing a new one with one of the Sapphire Rapids versions (sub Xeon-W).
 
Threadripper 7000 - This is fucking frustrating too. First of all, if it doesn't show up until half way through 2023 then that's basically paying a huge surplus for what is becoming old technology; this "HEDT coming out when you can see the next generation mainstream just a few months away" shit has to stop. Either release it concurrently/soon after mainstream or at least just after Epyc / Xeon tier stuff that it is likely close to/cut from, but don't dick around until midsummer when a new arch is on the way in the fall! Next, what is the point of Threadripper anymore? The last generation or two of TR / TR Pro is no longer "HEDT high end gaming + content creation overclocking beast with more I/O and extensive features". Instead it has been more "Jr. Server/workstation, heavily multithreaded only extremely expensive and limited" where you had tons of cores but any single core or small group of them couldn't clock to the parity with the best Ryzen chips and thus were not great for gaming/overclocking while also paying a fortune. Why are they bothering to bring Threadripper back of its to play this out again? Simply make "cheaper, only $3000 Epyc" or whatever instead. Otherwise, if this is going to be a return to true High End Desktop then we need to see that and we need it to be released soon, so people who would otherwise be buying a top end 7950X / 7950X3D will see that Threadripper 3D cache is of interest to them again and isn't just exclusively focused on MOAR CORES to the exclusion of everything else and a huge bill to boot.
I agree that the timing and lack of clarity on TR 7000 is annoying, but it being the high-end gaming solution has been dead since TR1 - it very quickly moved to the prosumer marketplace and folks with oddball workloads like I have (hence why I have both x399 and TRX4). It's all about content creation, mass storage, almost-server, etc - while being a highly competent normal desktop machine - and those first focus points are far more important than the latter, as the consumer and gaming side will always move faster (and has different needs, that are steadily (sadly) diverging from the consumer space). Do I really hope that there's a prosumer-level Threadripper? Oh you're damned right I do. I LOVE mine to death - best damned system I've ever owned. But... I also recognize that it's not likely. The folks doing true professional studio/rendering work have different needs than those of us that straddle the two worlds, and I think our market is dying.

They come out with a sub-2k TR with 16-24 cores and I'll buy it - otherwise, I'll be riding this system down till someone has a replacement, or I'll have to get creative.
 
  • Like
Reactions: noko
like this
Back
Top