Tearing when using Gsync on freesync monitor

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blackmomba

Gawd
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
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I'm using a 1080TI on a Samsung U28E590, a little old but works well

In games like Forza Horizon 4, Project Cars 2, Metro Exodus, when I enable G-SYNC, I get this terrible stuttering, horrible frame times, tearing all over the place. When I turn it off, it all goes away, I was using freesync with my other AMD card without this issue

Any ideas on what I could try to troubleshoot?

Short clip I took with my mobile
 
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I believe Freesync monitor needs to support a VRR range of 2 to 1 (so 30-60hz or 60-120hz) or probably higher (my Freesync monitor is 48-144 and works great as G-sync compatible monitor) to be G-Sync compatible. The U28590 is something like 40-60hz VRR range so isn't supported
 
M76 said:
Won't turning on Vsync defeat the purpose of gsync?
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No, never has, never will. As has been explained before already on sites like blurbusters. On nvidia, the v-sync setting is literally a part of g-sync that can be optionally turned off for very limited benefits (the benefit is that your framerate CAN go beyond your refresh rate which will turn off g-sync so you get unlimited frames and slightly less lag, ie. you just play as if you didn't have any form of "sync" enabled - so tearing and stuttering are back). In the early days you couldn't even touch it for that matter. Having v-sync disabled also means you can get a bit of tearing (usually one single line near the bottom) even when fully in the g-sync range because of frametime spikes that cannot be compensated for.

They only added the option to turn off v-sync with VRR when AMD did and pretended it was an "advantage" of Freesync as far as I can remember.
 
kalston said:
No, never has, never will. As has been explained before already on sites like blurbusters. On nvidia, the v-sync setting is literally a part of g-sync that can be optionally turned off for very limited benefits (the benefit is that your framerate CAN go beyond your refresh rate which will turn off g-sync so you get unlimited frames and slightly less lag, ie. you just play as if you didn't have any form of "sync" enabled - so tearing and stuttering are back). In the early days you couldn't even touch it for that matter. Having v-sync disabled also means you can get a bit of tearing (usually one single line near the bottom) even when fully in the g-sync range because of frametime spikes that cannot be compensated for.

They only added the option to turn off v-sync with VRR when AMD did and pretended it was an "advantage" of Freesync as far as I can remember.
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Well that's all and well, but I get noticeable lag if I enable vsync in games.
 
The CG5 is currently the only Samsung display that has been certified G-SYNC Compatible. NVIDIA has clearly stated multiple times that you can try to use it on non-certified displays, but you should expect to have issues.
M76 said:
Well that's all and well, but I get noticeable lag if I enable vsync in games.
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With G-SYNC you enable it in the NVIDIA Control Panel, not in games. You should get no additional input lag when V-Sync is enabled in the control panel with G-SYNC unless your framerate is constantly hitting the refresh rate. You should turn up game quality settings until you're within about 70% of the max refresh rate, or otherwise use an FPS limiter.
 
Armenius said:
The CG5 is currently the only Samsung display that has been certified G-SYNC Compatible. NVIDIA has clearly stated multiple times that you can try to use it on non-certified displays, but you should expect to have issues.

With G-SYNC you enable it in the NVIDIA Control Panel, not in games. You should get no additional input lag when V-Sync is enabled in the control panel with G-SYNC unless your framerate is constantly hitting the refresh rate. You should turn up game quality settings until you're within about 70% of the max refresh rate, or otherwise use an FPS limiter.
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Yep, now that nvidia put the fps limiter in the CP you can cap to 2-3 fps below refresh easily.
 
M76 said:
Well that's all and well, but I get noticeable lag if I enable vsync in games.
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Me too, that's why I always turned it off

Thanks guys always thought I needed to turn off vsync, I'll try turning it back on to see if it helps. Does seem counterintuitive though but maybe I just don't understand the tech

What's the reasoning behind capping fps right below the refresh rate ? Any links to help me understand?

With my vega I used to turn on freesync and enhanced sync and left vsync off. However I read that some folks used vsync too with enhanced sync and freesync.
 
blackmomba said:
Me too, that's why I always turned it off

Thanks guys always thought I needed to turn off vsync, I'll try turning it back on to see if it helps. Does seem counterintuitive though but maybe I just don't understand the tech

What's the reasoning behind capping fps right below the refresh rate ? Any links to help me understand?

With my vega I used to turn on freesync and enhanced sync and left vsync off. However I read that some folks used vsync too with enhanced sync and freesync.
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Not sure about AMD/freesync. But check out blurbusters for the explanation on gsync vs. vsync vs. no vsync. If you're having problems with stuttering it is likely a driver or monitor problem. I've had drivers break gsync for a bit but for the vast majority of time it was been a terrific experience and probably the best tech of the past 5 years.
 
blackmomba said:
Me too, that's why I always turned it off

Thanks guys always thought I needed to turn off vsync, I'll try turning it back on to see if it helps. Does seem counterintuitive though but maybe I just don't understand the tech

What's the reasoning behind capping fps right below the refresh rate ? Any links to help me understand?

With my vega I used to turn on freesync and enhanced sync and left vsync off. However I read that some folks used vsync too with enhanced sync and freesync.
Click to expand...

Because once your hit the max refresh rate of your display (or to be more precise, exceed it) you can't sync the display & GPU in any way other than v-sync (and all the variations on the tech like fast-sync etc.). So if you cap below that limit, you never find yourself playing with v-sync in the first place and instead remain in VRR territory. Why don't GPU drivers automatically cap your FPS to avoid that in the first place? I am not entirely sure, perhaps because the frame limiters built in the games tend to be a very little bit "faster" so they'd rather leave us the option of choosing how to cap our frames.

The narrow VRR range on yours means you are also always going to be close to the limits of your display, so the frametime compensation that the v-sync option adds to g-sync is probably even more critical for you than it is on other displays that can do 120hz and beyond. Explained here. Here, I don't factually know if AMD does the same thing with their v-sync setting. Haven't owned AMD hardware in a long time and never got the chance to test it.

VRR turns your screen into a slave of the GPU. But screens can't display an unlimited number of frames per second, so if the GPU is faster you either have no sync at all (lagless but you have tearing & stuttering) or you have v-sync and some amount of lag because of the buffering.

But if you cap your frames, you don't exceed the monitor's capabilities anymore. Bingo, you can have VRR - smooth, lagless*, tearing free.

*the only lag difference vs "v-sync off" is the lack of tearing: when you allow tearing, part(s) of the screen can show information a bit earlier than the rest - pretty logical when you think about it. But that's a really tiny number (a fraction of a frame!) no one should worry about. Again, explanations.
 
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Furious_Styles said:
Not sure about AMD/freesync. But check out blurbusters for the explanation on gsync vs. vsync vs. no vsync. If you're having problems with stuttering it is likely a driver or monitor problem. I've had drivers break gsync for a bit but for the vast majority of time it was been a terrific experience and probably the best tech of the past 5 years.
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kalston said:
Because once your hit the max refresh rate of your display (or to be more precise, exceed it) you can't sync the display & GPU in any way other than v-sync (and all the variations on the tech like fast-sync etc.). So if you cap below that limit, you never find yourself playing with v-sync in the first place and instead remain in VRR territory. Why don't GPU drivers automatically cap your FPS to avoid that in the first place? I am not entirely sure, perhaps because the frame limiters built in the games tend to be a very little bit "faster" so they'd rather leave us the option of choosing how to cap our frames.

The narrow VRR range on yours means you are also always going to be close to the limits of your display, so the frametime compensation that the v-sync option adds to g-sync is probably even more critical for you than it is on other displays that can do 120hz and beyond. Explained here. Here, I don't factually know if AMD does the same thing with their v-sync setting. Haven't owned AMD hardware in a long time and never got the chance to test it.

VRR turns your screen into a slave of the GPU. But screens can't display an unlimited number of frames per second, so if the GPU is faster you either have no sync at all (lagless but you have tearing & stuttering) or you have v-sync and some amount of lag because of the buffering.

But if you cap your frames, you don't exceed the monitor's capabilities anymore. Bingo, you can have VRR - smooth, lagless*, tearing free.

*the only lag difference vs "v-sync off" is the lack of tearing: when you allow tearing, part(s) of the screen can show information a bit earlier than the rest - pretty logical when you think about it. But that's a really tiny number (a fraction of a frame!) no one should worry about. Again, explanations.
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Thanks for spelling it out for me fellas, and thanks a lot for the links. Very appreciative.
 
kalston said:
Because once your hit the max refresh rate of your display (or to be more precise, exceed it) you can't sync the display & GPU in any way other than v-sync
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I thought your explanation was good, but why can't you simply cap your FPS at your monitor's refresh rate? Like cap it at 144fps for a 144hz monitor. Why does it have to be a few below? What is the purpose of that buffer?
 
If you're running a 60hz Freesync monitor, it desn't have enough Freesuync Range to be usable under Gsync Compatible.

If you're that bothered by the tearing, might I suggest that you turn on FastSync? It's lower input lag than Vsync, and will produce the same smooth output as if you were running triple-buffered.

Just diaable vsync in the game, then turn on Fastsync for all games in control panel.
 
GotNoRice said:
I thought your explanation was good, but why can't you simply cap your FPS at your monitor's refresh rate? Like cap it at 144fps for a 144hz monitor. Why does it have to be a few below? What is the purpose of that buffer?
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There are two issues here, one that is easy to understand is that your refresh rate is never exactly 144, its something like 143.9xx or 144.011 or something, so you'd have to measure it very precisely and then use a very very accurate frame limiter (which means only Rivatuner could be even remotely usable - and that would still require a loooot of tinkering to get it right), most frame limiters will try to stick to a target but the framerate might go a bit higher or a bit lower anyway, in game limiters can have a delta as high as 10+ frames which is obviously terrible for this use case so better give yourself some headroom when using one of those.

The second issue is less clear to me, but has to do with how g-sync works - apparently g-sync disengages a bit before the refresh rate limit is reached (so if you have v-sync off, you get tearing, if you have v-sync on, you get v-sync). Even on blurbusters they do not seem 100% sure why it works that way though.
 
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Radeon Enhanced sync allows FPS above your monitor refresh rate but syncs the GPU to the monitor. Works great except a number of people when using it get black screens, I don't. I rarely see any tearing above monitor refresh rate. To control AMD GPU's max frame rate, use Radeon Chill to set the min and max FPS -> This works extremely well, AMD old frame capper was a stutter fest if it even worked in a game.

I have a 4K Freesync monitor hooked up to the 1080 Ti, very limited range, tearing when GSync is turned on at times other times not -> works good with AMD GPU's but limited with Nvidia. I use Vertical Sync and Gsync or just plain Adaptive Sync. Really not an issue since it is used this for VR. Hard to beat a 1080 Ti in VR.
 
If you have the 'enabled for windowed and full-screen mode' option selected, try just full-screen mode and don't run your games windowed.

Also, I just follow the blurbusters stuff: vsync on in NV Control Panel, vsync off in game, frame limiter at 141 (144Hz monitor) and I've been fine.
 
whateverer said:
If you're running a 60hz Freesync monitor, it desn't have enough Freesuync Range to be usable under Gsync Compatible.

If you're that bothered by the tearing, might I suggest that you turn on FastSync? It's lower input lag than Vsync, and will produce the same smooth output as if you were running triple-buffered.

Just diaable vsync in the game, then turn on Fastsync for all games in control panel.
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Thanks man,

I set Max Frame Rate to 58, turned on Fast (it's under the Vertical Sync drop-down right?). It's like a stutter almost, not really tearing as I said before. It doesn't come through when screen recording but I took a video with my mobile and the effect kind of comes through at the beginning and especially around the 1st turn. With Vsync its similar I think. I don't even know what to call this effect.. hitching?

djoye said:
If you have the 'enabled for windowed and full-screen mode' option selected, try just full-screen mode and don't run your games windowed.

Also, I just follow the blurbusters stuff: vsync on in NV Control Panel, vsync off in game, frame limiter at 141 (144Hz monitor) and I've been fine.
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I actually left it set in game. I'm gonna set it in the control panel like you suggested and turn it off in game. See if it helps
 
In addition to the suggestions in this thread, I was actually able to fix the problem by following the instructions in this thread

Basically, use CRU to define a new Freesync range which is closer to the required 2:1 ratio Thanks Eymar
The guy in the thread I linked was able to get as low as 32fps, so I tried 30fps. Had problems and eventually got to 34fps. The thread also recommends Nvidia pendulum test. My experience is that things can look good there but be broken in games. I instantly saw problems in BFV for example, which wern't aparently in the pendulum test
It's enough to get rid of the flickering actually which is great!

1587522025331.png
 
blackmomba said:
Thanks man,

I set Max Frame Rate to 58, turned on Fast (it's under the Vertical Sync drop-down right?). It's like a stutter almost, not really tearing as I said before. It doesn't come through when screen recording but I took a video with my mobile and the effect kind of comes through at the beginning and especially around the 1st turn. With Vsync its similar I think. I don't even know what to call this effect.. hitching?



I actually left it set in game. I'm gonna set it in the control panel like you suggested and turn it off in game. See if it helps
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If you use Fast Sync when your FPS is below the refresh rate then you are essentially using unbuffered V-Sync as the GPU will hold a frame until the monitor is ready to refresh. It is generally a bad idea to use Fast Sync with G-SYNC as the two conflict with each other. This is what causes the hitching. It could also be caused with you setting the minimum Freesync range below what the monitor was made for.

V-Sync + G-SYNC is not V-Sync in the normal sense. Using V-Sync with G-SYNC ensures that the VRR output is synced to the scanout of the monitor to prevent any judder, otherwise the GPU will push a new frame before or after the front buffer has completely cleared.
 
PC:

AMD Ryzen 5 3600x 6-core, 12-thread processor 3.8GHz base, 4.4GHz turbo

Nvidia Gigabyte Geforce Gtx 1080 Ti Gaming Oc 11GB, 600W 80 plus rated power supply

CORSAIR VENGEANCE 2x8GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB SATA III Hard Drive, ASUS ROG Strix B450-F Gaming ATX Motherboard

Corsair Hydro 100i RGB Platinum, Hydro Series

Monitor: ASUS VG248QE 144Hz + AOC 24G2U 144Hz IPS

Hello,

So the whole situation is, I’m having a screen tearing issue. As you can see from my specs I have a decent rig, I’ve been having screen tearing issues ever since I reset my pc. I never used to have screen tearing issues and I know exactly how gsync works. Right now if I cap my FPS to 144 (my monitors refresh rate) I get even worse/ noticeable screen tearing. Like I said. I never used to have this issue, even with uncapped I didn’t get screen tearing. Now I just do. It’s so annoying I’ve been trying to figure it out the past week and I’m so tired of it. What bothers me is that knowing my pc used to be fine and now I’m having this issue. And please don’t tell me to cap my FPS to 138 or play with vsync or even tell me how gsync works because believe me guys, I already know. What kind of fixes the issue is putting vsync on in global settings but I never used to need to do that, right now that’s what I’ve done and for most of the games I’ve tested to see if I have screen tearing , I don’t apart from one game League of Legends. I just want to know or get advice on what could’ve possibly gone wrong or maybe I might be missing certain drivers or something like that, I am not a pc expert and I really need help troubleshooting this issue. What can i do to fix this. Sorry if I sound quite rude but I’m just tired and I want to find a solution to this. Is there a setting I should have on or something, I just need help guys as this is very frustrating. Again sorry if I sound rude.

Also I had a 1080 and recently upgraded to a 1080 ti, I was having this issue with my 1080 as well. (After I reset my pc)

also i should add im on windows 10 pro 1909
 
prettyflacko said:
PC:

AMD Ryzen 5 3600x 6-core, 12-thread processor 3.8GHz base, 4.4GHz turbo

Nvidia Gigabyte Geforce Gtx 1080 Ti Gaming Oc 11GB, 600W 80 plus rated power supply

CORSAIR VENGEANCE 2x8GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB SATA III Hard Drive, ASUS ROG Strix B450-F Gaming ATX Motherboard

Corsair Hydro 100i RGB Platinum, Hydro Series

Monitor: ASUS VG248QE 144Hz + AOC 24G2U 144Hz IPS

Hello,

So the whole situation is, I’m having a screen tearing issue. As you can see from my specs I have a decent rig, I’ve been having screen tearing issues ever since I reset my pc. I never used to have screen tearing issues and I know exactly how gsync works. Right now if I cap my FPS to 144 (my monitors refresh rate) I get even worse/ noticeable screen tearing. Like I said. I never used to have this issue, even with uncapped I didn’t get screen tearing. Now I just do. It’s so annoying I’ve been trying to figure it out the past week and I’m so tired of it. What bothers me is that knowing my pc used to be fine and now I’m having this issue. And please don’t tell me to cap my FPS to 138 or play with vsync or even tell me how gsync works because believe me guys, I already know. What kind of fixes the issue is putting vsync on in global settings but I never used to need to do that, right now that’s what I’ve done and for most of the games I’ve tested to see if I have screen tearing , I don’t apart from one game League of Legends. I just want to know or get advice on what could’ve possibly gone wrong or maybe I might be missing certain drivers or something like that, I am not a pc expert and I really need help troubleshooting this issue. What can i do to fix this. Sorry if I sound quite rude but I’m just tired and I want to find a solution to this. Is there a setting I should have on or something, I just need help guys as this is very frustrating. Again sorry if I sound rude.

Also I had a 1080 and recently upgraded to a 1080 ti, I was having this issue with my 1080 as well. (After I reset my pc)

also i should add im on windows 10 pro 1909
Click to expand...
It's probably the other monitor that is causing issues. The 24G2U isn't listed as G-SYNC Compatible. Try disconnecting it and see if the issue goes away. I know this isn't the answer you want, but at least try it so you can identify a possible cause.
 
That's interesting, because he says he didn't have it before the "reset". Reset, is that a fresh Windows install or does W10 have some sort of reset button.

And did you have that second monitor before the reset, that's a good question

Just to be clear, my problem wasn't really tearing... I think I was seeing frames too early or too late actually, like a pacing issue. I still can't describe it, shits confusing. Everyone's got their own tech, 3 different layers of sync, 22 settings to tweak. The "fix" I thought I had by changing the freesync range didn't work well in all games.

I justed turned Gsync compatible off for the moment while I look for something better
 
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