3rd gen Threadripper, big fail and missed opportunity for AMD.

this thread is hilarious.

“I don’t understand why this expensive thing is expensive! I want it but I want it for less! I don’t want to try to understand!”

HEDT platforms are like... that cliche when you walk into a jeweler and ask “where are the price tags?”

like, if you’ve got to ask... it’s not for you.

Previous generation, 12/16 cores was entry level HEDT. Around $800 for the processor. Expensive platform.

New generation, 12/16 cores is high end mainstream. Under $800 for the processor and a cheaper overall platform cost too.

Just three years ago, 4 cores was high end mainstream. 8 cores was HEDT territory. and there’s still people complaining. /shrug

I think the only market not being served by this are people who want the extra I/O from an HEDT/workstation platform but for whatever reason don’t want a big processor to go with it. Those three dudes are out of luck.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
yes because cores are the only thing that matters..

lets ignore the fact that you're going from 64mb of L3 cache to 128MB or a base clock of 3Ghz to a base clock of 3.8Ghz or that zen 2 is between 10-15% faster clock for clock over zen+ or that it has a max boost clock of 4.5Ghz vs 4.2Ghz, or that it has pcie 4.0 over pcie 3.0 or that it has quad channel memory that is accessible by all 4 chiplets through the IO die vs sharing bandwidth off 2 of the 4 zen+ dies or that it has 8 lanes dedicated to the chipset vs 4 lanes.. the list goes on and on.. so the 100 dollars more is chump change for what you actually get over the previous generation..
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Yeah but I think the gist of this thread is, you dont need those things to play solitaire so its a rip-off vs intel... Thats what i'm getting from all this.
 
So compared to previous generations you get +20% more clock and ipc, 2x+ data transfer, half the power usage and the fuzzy warm feeling that you're breaking a monopoly that had been artificially created by nefarious tactics.

Ok Boomer
 
They will probably lower the price of the 2950x substantially once TR3 hits. That will be their value option vs Intel HEDT.

I do agree that a 16 core TR3 would have been nice, but for a lot of people the 3950x is a fine alternative. Yes you miss extra PCIe lanes etc, but for anyone that actually needs HEDT the price increase on the 3960x isn’t that big at all considering what you get for it.
 
I'm not a fanboy but no one can't not see that the intel ecosystem is more mature and stable, there are more software "optimized" for intel and so on.
so if price per performance is similar I would choose intel.

as me, many people agree with me this is why AMD should offer more for the same.
3960X costs 40% more than i9-10980XE, considering the platform that will be really more expensive (with mobos that average 800€) it would easily costs 60% more.

and no, 3960X will surely not be 60% faster than the intel counterpart.
 
sblantipodi said:
I call people like you fanboys.
I'm not the one who expected more for the price, I'm not the one who expected more cores for the same price. Everyone expected more but only people who don't need to buy anything appreciate it :)
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I'm a fan of well performing products. My last AMD CPU was an Athlon X2, and guess what. It was more expensive than their Intel counter parts because they were better. I'm just not dumb enough to expect to be given a charitable donation in the form of a discount.

You ARE the one expecting more for the same price. Do the new processors give you more? Your entire time here you've only acknowledged cores while ignoring, quite literally every other improvement the new processors have despite it being explained to you from several members on several occasions.

Since you appear to be saying you want the same for same, why not get the last gen? If the new processors aren't giving you anything more, why are you so fixated on them?
 
RamonGTP said:
I'm a fan of well performing products. My last AMD CPU was an Athlon X2, and guess what. It was more expensive than their Intel counter parts because they were better. I'm just not dumb enough to expect to be given a charitable donation in the form of a discount.

You ARE the one expecting more for the same price. Do the new processors give you more? Your entire time here you've only acknowledged cores while ignoring, quite literally every other improvement the new processors have despite it being explained to you from several members on several occasions.

Since you appear to be saying you want the same for same, why not get the last gen? If the new processors aren't giving you anything more, why are you so fixated on them?
Click to expand...

why ryzen 3000 have all this success?
ok threadripper doesn't share a single reason of the ryzen 3000 success.
 
I hate the pricing and Intel could even lead in price/performance this time, but AMD is probably so supply constrained at this point that they'll sell every TR they make either way, so might as well jack up the price and increase the profit margin. I don't like it, but it's good for them.
 
sblantipodi said:
I'm not a fanboy but no one can't not see that the intel ecosystem is more mature and stable, there are more software "optimized" for intel and so on.
so if price per performance is similar I would choose intel.
Click to expand...

And AMD is still not going to read this and lower their prices for you.
sblantipodi said:
why ryzen 3000 have all this success?
ok threadripper doesn't share a single reason of the ryzen 3000 success.
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Because it's a great processor, not because it's cheap. i9 9900k 479 R9 3900x 499

Why are you avoiding my question? You say you're not asking for more for the same. If that's the case, why not go last gen? Why TR3? What is it you want from TR3 if not "more"?
 
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sblantipodi said:
I'm not a fanboy but no one can't not see that the intel ecosystem is more mature and stable, there are more software "optimized" for intel and so on.
so if price per performance is similar I would choose intel.
Click to expand...

So with this software disadvantage AMD is winning. It's a lot easier to optimize software than it is to make new hardware. By this logic AMD's value is now at a base not a peak.

(PS the converse is that intel is at a peak and not a base)

sblantipodi said:
as me, many people agree with me this is why AMD should offer more for the same.
Click to expand...

Jump on the bandwagon is a fallacy

sblantipodi said:
3960X costs 40% more than i9-10980XE, considering the platform that will be really more expensive (with mobos that average 800€) it would easily costs 60% more.

and no, 3960X will surely not be 60% faster than the intel counterpart.
Click to expand...

IMO by intels standards the i9-10980XE is woefully under priced based on their history.

When one is in a monopoly position dramatic pricing swings of half off can be seen as predatory.
 
sblantipodi said:
I'm not a fanboy but no one can't not see that the intel ecosystem is more mature and stable, there are more software "optimized" for intel and so on.
so if price per performance is similar I would choose intel.

as me, many people agree with me this is why AMD should offer more for the same.
3960X costs 40% more than i9-10980XE, considering the platform that will be really more expensive (with mobos that average 800€) it would easily costs 60% more.

and no, 3960X will surely not be 60% faster than the intel counterpart.
Click to expand...

Of course the intel platform is more mature and stable. They've been selling the same chip since the 18th century.

No one agrees with you except shills and drunk posters...
 
sblantipodi said:
sure you're right, thanks AMD to convince intel in lowering the price but my next HEDT will be the cheaper intel :)
Click to expand...
Enjoy that slower, hotter, lower IPC, inefficient, higher latency and short lived socket.
May as well get a 3950x instead if you don't need the memory bandwidth.
 
short lived socket
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That one is not clear to me that AMD will have a longer lived socket than Intel. Will this new socket that the 3000 series TR chips support DDR5 when it arrives in a year or 2?
 
drescherjm said:
That one is not clear to me that AMD will have a longer lived socket than Intel. Will this new socket that the 3000 series TR chips support DDR5 when it arrives in a year or 2?
Click to expand...

Memory Type / Release Year / Bandwidth / Pins per Ch / Voltage (V) / Prefetch
DDR4 2014 25.6 GB/s 380 1.2 8n
DDR5 2019 32GB/s 380 1.1 8/16n

From here https://www.tomshardware.com/news/what-we-know-ddr5-ram,39079.html
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/what-we-know-ddr5-ram,39079.html
Possibility
 
I'm not going to make fun at the expense of the OP. However, Im 75% gamer 25% hard core video work.

As soon as reviews drop and I like the., there will be a 3900x and a 3600 and boards for sale

I will totally rock a 24 core for the next 5 years. I've been waiting on something as fast or faster than skylake but is high performance multi thread and the merger of Threadripper and Zen 2 cores meets that mark. Hence I'm about 95% certain I will be getting a 3960x AMD and Aorus Master board.

What the OP seems clueless about and forgive my harshness, is just how damn much 140MB of l3 cache is. Were talking insanity performance in the ability of running heavily threaded apps in multiple instances. I.e. running (4) 12 thread hand brakes at the same and deliver maximum performance from each instance at the same time running a copy of Battlefield V on your dual 2080tis @16 lanes each at the same time lol


Moar cores moar powah = worth it price wise.

Old threadrippers are molasses compared to what these are looking like. 3960x is basically two blazing ass 3900x's strapped together with a double cache bump and vastly improved infinity fabric. Yeah I will gladly pay AMD 1399 for that monster.
 
tangoseal said:
running (4) 12 thread hand brakes at the same and deliver maximum performance from each instance at the same time running a copy of Battlefield V on your dual 2080tis @16 lanes each at the same time lol
Click to expand...

The amount of heat this would produce would be insane. I'm jealous.
 
notarat said:
Of course the intel platform is more mature and stable. They've been selling the same chip since the 18th century.
Click to expand...
giphy.gif
 
N4CR said:
I think the only market not being served by this are people who want the extra I/O from an HEDT/workstation platform but for whatever reason don’t want a big processor to go with it. Those three dudes are out of luck.
Click to expand...

Haha, exactly.
 
sblantipodi said:
drastically faster? give me some percentage. it must be faster because it is new. but why the increased price with same amount of cores?
Click to expand...

The TR 3960X is 800Mhz faster on base clock and 300Mhz faster on boost clock than the TR2990WX, couple that with the improved IPC of Zen2 architecture, and the 3960X is going to smoke the 2990WX.
 
drescherjm said:
That one is not clear to me that AMD will have a longer lived socket than Intel. Will this new socket that the 3000 series TR chips support DDR5 when it arrives in a year or 2?
Click to expand...

Obviously not, when ddr5 arrive this socket is dead
 
sblantipodi said:
Obviously not, when ddr5 arrive this socket is dead
Click to expand...

Because DDR5 only differs from DDR4 by voltage and command rate? If it was an "obviously not" situation, they would make them less similar.

Regardless DDR5 will only give you 25% more bandwidth at the cost of latency. Hardily enough to kill a socket. Either way the form factor will stay the same as the pin per channel is the same..
 
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sblantipodi said:
First gen and second gen threadripper was a great opportunity for AMD to get enthusiast on their HEDT segment.

Many many enthusiast are waiting for a good threadripper with good single core and multi thread performance,
so the 3rd gen was the CPU that all people was waiting for BUT...

Price is now stupidly high,
mainstream gained a lot more cores for the same money
while HEDT is getting the same number of cores with really increased price.

On the HEDT segment we don't expect more performance at the same price, we expect more cores at the same price!

Now that Intel is selling the 18 cores i9-10990XE at only $999 an Intel core costs 55USD while the crappy AMD 3960X boosts the price at 58USD per core with a whopping 1400USD.
Leave alone the stupidly high priced 3970X at 2000USD

AMD is missing a big opportunity here, no enthusiast will spend that much for a dying platform like TRX40,
a platform that must die soon due to the USB4 and DDR5 arrival.

BIG FAIL AMD
Click to expand...

how is intel charging 1000 for skylake v4?

this is the 4th time they've made them and people bitch about nvidia rebranding.
 
sblantipodi said:
Obviously not, when ddr5 arrive this socket is dead
Click to expand...

I'd still like for you to answer why you want TR3 if you you're not asking for anything more than what TR2 gave you? This is about the 3rd time you've swerved around it. Could it be because you know your position doesn't make any sense but you'd rather stay ignorant than damage your pride by admitting you were wrong?
 
sblantipodi said:
Obviously not, when ddr5 arrive this socket is dead
Click to expand...

By that logic, every socket currently in production or scheduled for release in the next 18 months will instantly die when DDR5 drops.

Theoretically, a "TR45" chipset mobo with a socket that is still compatible with TR3 CPUs and has DDR5 could be released, but it might be as simple as a BIOS flash if the pins and keyway are the same.
 
DDR5 no way pin compatible, major arch changes.

1) power changes lower requirements to 1.1v self regulated on dimm
2) ddr5 will have TWO channels per DIMM
3) chop and burst length change to16
4) density moves up from 16 to 32GB per stick.
 
Mega6 said:
DDR5 no way pin compatible, major arch changes.

1) power changes lower requirements to 1.1v self regulated on dimm
2) ddr5 will have TWO channels per DIMM
3) chop and burst length change to16
4) density moves up from 16 to 32GB per stick.
Click to expand...

Hey stop, lets not bring facts into this lol...
 
Mega6 said:
DDR5 no way pin compatible, major arch changes.

1) power changes lower requirements to 1.1v self regulated on dimm
2) ddr5 will have TWO channels per DIMM
3) chop and burst length change to16
4) density moves up from 16 to 32GB per stick.
Click to expand...

Still nothing stopping a mobo/chipset refresh when TR4 drops with a backwards compatible socket for TR3, with ddr5.
 
OhSigmaChi said:
Still nothing stopping a mobo/chipset refresh when TR4 drops with a backwards compatible socket for TR3, with ddr5.
Click to expand...


Perhaps you do not understand. New memory architecture means new memory controller. The memory controller is not on the MB. Your compatible socket just vaporized.
 
Mega6 said:
Perhaps you do not understand. New memory architecture means new memory controller. The memory controller is not on the MB. Your compatible socket just vaporized.
Click to expand...

Why can’t the memory controller be upgraded while maintaining the same socket? Serious question.
 
RamonGTP said:
Why can’t the memory controller be upgraded while maintaining the same socket? Serious question.
Click to expand...
The memory controller is on the processor. DDR5 is a different pinout and a different animal.
Edit: AM3 processors had a DDR2 and DDR3 controller on the die for backwards compatibility.
 
RamonGTP said:
Why can’t the memory controller be upgraded while maintaining the same socket? Serious question.
Click to expand...

See below..

Redesign DDR5

"like DDR4 back when it was announced, it will still be several years before any of us have DDR5 RAM in our systems. That's partly because the memory controllers in processors and SoCs need to be updated to support DDR5, and these chips normally take two or three years to design from start to finish. DDR4 RAM was finalized in 2012, but it didn't begin to go mainstream until 2015 when consumer processors from Intel and others added support for it."
 
RamonGTP said:
Why can’t the memory controller be upgraded while maintaining the same socket? Serious question.
Click to expand...

DDR5 modules will be physically and electrically different from DDR4 modules, which means motherboards have to be designed differently to have DDR5 compatibility.

If they designed a CPU with a DDR5 memory controller to fit into a socket that was designed for CPUs with DDR4 memory controllers, they'll end up with customers who will try to put that new CPU in their DDR4 boards. At best it'll be a non-working configuration and a support nightmare for the company. At worst, things will fry each other out and the company has a class action lawsuit on its hands.

They could go the way they did with AM3 back in the day and include DDR4 and DDR5 controllers on the CPU.... but you'd STILL need a new socket to prevent DDR4 only CPUs from being used on DDR5 motherboards, just like AM3 was different from AM2. But that's a lot of work (i.e. money) that might not be worth it if customers would have to buy new boards to take advantage of other features not available on the older platform (e.g. PCIe 5.0, USB 4.0, 8ch memory, higher power capacity, better cooler designs, etc).
 
ryan_975 said:
DDR5 modules will be physically and electrically different from DDR4 modules, which means motherboards have to be designed differently to have DDR5 compatibility.

If they designed a CPU with a DDR5 memory controller to fit into a socket that was designed for CPUs with DDR4 memory controllers, they'll end up with customers who will try to put that new CPU in their DDR4 boards. At best it'll be a non-working configuration and a support nightmare for the company. At worst, things will fry each other out and the company has a class action lawsuit on its hands.

They could go the way they did with AM3 back in the day and include DDR4 and DDR5 controllers on the CPU.... but you'd STILL need a new socket to prevent DDR4 only CPUs from being used on DDR5 motherboards, just like AM3 was different from AM2. But that's a lot of work (i.e. money) that might not be worth it if customers would have to buy new boards to take advantage of other features not available on the older platform (e.g. PCIe 5.0, USB 4.0, 8ch memory, higher power capacity, better cooler designs, etc).
Click to expand...

So again, to my previous point, this will invalidate every socket currently on the market, and anything introduced in the next 18 mos at a minimum. Not just a TR3 issue.
 
schmide said:
Because DDR5 only differs from DDR4 by voltage and command rate? If it was an "obviously not" situation, they would make them less similar.

Regardless DDR5 will only give you 25% more bandwidth at the cost of latency. Hardily enough to kill a socket. Either way the form factor will stay the same as the pin per channel is the same..
Click to expand...

Loose your hopes, Trx40 will never see ddr5
 
OhSigmaChi said:
So again, to my previous point, this will invalidate every socket currently on the market, and anything introduced in the next 18 mos at a minimum. Not just a TR3 issue.
Click to expand...

Yes this is true. Not a big deal to build a new system now imho. Unless you are one of those who change its system every year or two
 
sblantipodi said:
I'm not a fanboy but no one can't not see that the intel ecosystem is more mature and stable, there are more software "optimized" for intel and so on.
so if price per performance is similar I would choose intel.

as me, many people agree with me this is why AMD should offer more for the same.
3960X costs 40% more than i9-10980XE, considering the platform that will be really more expensive (with mobos that average 800€) it would easily costs 60% more.

and no, 3960X will surely not be 60% faster than the intel counterpart.
Click to expand...

the only reason it's more optimized is due to the fact that intel has had literally zero competition in this market for almost 10 years.. that's changing and so will the optimizations as AMD continues to take more market share. it's fine if you want to use that excuse to justify your position and why you're choosing one over the other, but don't be so short sighted.. you don't go out and buy processors like these to change over year after year, these are investments that need to have some kind of return whether it be money or time or both to justify the costs and the 10980XE is not one of those processors. intel literally has nothing in the pipeline til at least 2021 that can remotely compete with the 3960x let alone compete with it on cost in the HEDT market.

OhSigmaChi said:
So again, to my previous point, this will invalidate every socket currently on the market, and anything introduced in the next 18 mos at a minimum. Not just a TR3 issue.
Click to expand...

still have at minimum 2 years before that becomes an issue and the reality is where processors are currently at i don't see the mainstream markets jumping on to DDR5 right away.. memory performance isn't really a limiting factor these days even in the hedt market so Intel and AMD are going to have to come up with something good to justify the move to yet another platform.
 
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You'll get 2 generations out of this socket just like the last one because the next generation isn't going to be ready for DDR5. I bet we don't see a DDR5 Threadripper until late 2021/early 2022.

I don't really see a big issue with the price of the CPU generation over generation you really are getting something for your extra $100 in the 24-core realm. The motherboard costs are starting to get a little out of hand though.
 
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sblantipodi said:
Yes this is true. Not a big deal to build a new system now imho. Unless you are one of those who change its system every year or two
Click to expand...

I must have missed it. Why do you want TR3 again if you aren’t asking for anything more than TR2 gives you?
 
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