Is ghosting in VA panels this bad?

You guys explain this to me:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/all_tests.php

I looked at every single thing in this page, no anomalies, no horizontal scanlines, nothing. Then i looked up and suddenly i see horizontal scanlines on the browser bar. Just there, nowhere else on the page. I come back here to post this, and there's no scanlines in the browser bar in this forum page. How is this possible? I click on the tab of this page, no scanlines. I click on the tab from the lagom page, scanlines. I wish i could take a picture but i doubt i can really catch it.

So i loaded the weather app of windows 10. The blue bar on top of the app is where i see those horizontal lines the most. I load the app while this forum is up, and i see the lines. I load it on the lagom page, and there's no lines!

How in the living hell is this possible? What's going on here?
 
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You guys think it's worth it to try to play the lottery if it looks like this?

https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/samsung_c32hg70/P1190784.JPG

I can't take a good picture, mine is similar, except the light is on the corners and not so much along the middle like this one. Only visible in very dark scenes or scenes transitions, and only at night. Doesn't bleed over brighter images.

I solved the scanlines issue by simply putting the monitor farther away. Now i can't see them. But still, what the hell.
 
Well, fixed it with a bias light behind the screen. Lightbleed is no longer visible, scanlines are no longer visible. Maybe if i turn the monitor upside down i'll fix the inverse ghosting, hey?

Son of a bitch what a ride. I need to get a job so the next monitor i'll just dish out for a good one. The hell with this "budget" garbage.
 
You guys think it's worth it to try to play the lottery if it looks like this?

https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/images/samsung_c32hg70/P1190784.JPG

I can't take a good picture, mine is similar, except the light is on the corners and not so much along the middle like this one. Only visible in very dark scenes or scenes transitions, and only at night. Doesn't bleed over brighter images.

I solved the scanlines issue by simply putting the monitor farther away. Now i can't see them. But still, what the hell.

If it is like on that image, not worth returning, chances of getting a worst screen are big. The second one you posted has more bleed, if it's more like that, might be worth it, but only if no high cost is involved with the return, it's called panel lottery for a reason. Getting a perfect panel with no dead pixels, no backlight bleed and no ghosting is like winning the jackpot :)

Costlier monitors don't guarantee there won't be issues. Returns and repairs tend to be better though, but not a hard rule.
 
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Returns and repairs tend to be better though, but not a hard rule.

I assume you mean returns to the manufacturer. If i return it, it would be to Amazon, and i heard there's actually a chance of getting something worse with their exchange policy, even something already opened if not outright used, to the point i've been told to actually ask for a refund instead of a replacement then buy it again.
 
Modern TN is world better than the TN of old.
Especially with quantum dot backlights. Colors are VERY good, better than most IPS' I have used, and you get the adequate motion capabilities of TN too. Honestly for LCDs, TN panel with quantum dot and 120hz+ refresh seems like the best monitors out there right now. Far superior to any previous high end gaming monitors using IPS or VA panels I have ever used. Im glad I gave TN another try, havent used one since 2012 before this one
 
Especially with quantum dot backlights. Colors are VERY good, better than most IPS' I have used, and you get the adequate motion capabilities of TN too. Honestly for LCDs, TN panel with quantum dot and 120hz+ refresh seems like the best monitors out there right now. Far superior to any previous high end gaming monitors using IPS or VA panels I have ever used. Im glad I gave TN another try, havent used one since 2012 before this one
Imo easily the best gaming panel now is LG's latest Nano IPS panel. Pretty much removes the TN speed advantage while offering superior colours and viewing angles. No TN comes close.
 
Imo easily the best gaming panel now is LG's latest Nano IPS panel. Pretty much removes the TN speed advantage while offering superior colours and viewing angles. No TN comes close.

The new 1440p 240Hz TN panel brings that speed advantage back.
 
Imo easily the best gaming panel now is LG's latest Nano IPS panel. Pretty much removes the TN speed advantage while offering superior colours and viewing angles. No TN comes close.

Their average response times are still about twice that of the fastest TN panels, no matter what "1ms" marketing they try to peddle. That said, that puts them into the "that's more than good enough" category where other pros of the display will be more relevant.

Seems to be only one 240 Hz 1440p TN panel on the horizon and personally I won't bother with anything 1080p anymore but someone who is only concerned with gaming might find that to be a good spot as it's easy to run at high framerates. TN panel tech seems to have seen quite little improvement over the last 5 years since based on TFT Central reviews my previous ASUS PG278Q is still one of the best on response times, contrast ratios have only gone up a little and viewing angles are about the same.
 
240 hz is only being utilized if your game is running 200fps average (170 - 200 - 230 fps -ish graph) so is only useful for certain games.

1080p 240hz screens open that 200fps+ average pool up to more games but still I feel most people are just looking at the carrying capactiy of the cart and not focusing on how much you'd have to put in the cart to utilize the space and then how weak the horse is trying to pull it. That goes for 4k 120hz too but it's nice to have a higher ceiling for those easier to render games and regular desktop use even.

You can always use a lower rez gaming monitor alongside a higher rez screen to split the trade-offs and usage scenarios as long as your burdget and space allow for it. I did it with my first 120hz samsung 1080p glossy screen next to a 1440p cinema display and I'm doing it now with 4k screens next to a 32" 1440p g-sync VA.
 
You can always use a lower rez gaming monitor alongside a higher rez screen to split the trade-offs and usage scenarios as long as your burdget and space allow for it.
Integer scaling might solve this. You could have one 4k or 5k screen and use the high rez on the desktop and use half rez (each axis) when gaming. I never liked dual or tripple monitor setups, while others swear by it. Options are always good.
 
You can always use a lower rez gaming monitor alongside a higher rez screen to split the trade-offs and usage scenarios as long as your burdget and space allow for it.

I do this now.

It isn't perfect, but it damn well works.
 
Integer scaling might solve this. You could have one 4k or 5k screen and use the high rez on the desktop and use half rez (each axis) when gaming. I never liked dual or tripple monitor setups, while others swear by it. Options are always good.

I feel we really need to be at 5K+ before it becomes a good option. 1080p on a 4K display is still lacking detail compared to 1440p even if it is sharper because there just aren't enough pixels to represent fine details. I feel 1440p and up is diminishing returns though so 5K with integer scaling could work well.
 
From what I've read on blurbusters "journey to 1000Hz" , the future could be really good interpolation from a decent root frame rate. You don't need to have 480fps or 1000fps of actual rendered frames for 480hz or 1000Hz but you could use duplication without bad artifacting or input lag in some future interpolation tech and still get massive sample and hold blur reduction, even essentially eliminating it at 1000fps + 1000Hz.

Consoles already use some dynamic resolution and checkerboarding tricks but VR is doing tech that is more like real interpolation by using "warping" which actually adds in between ("tween") frames. You can project ahead to what the vector of the viewport movement is and use the current/previous frame as a foundation for the next one, or you can outright duplicate the frame 2 to several times. VR has smoothing tech that cuts any frame rate below 90fps to 45 then duplicates it so that the player never sees below 90fps+90hz which could otherwise induce motion sickness. I think in the future, something like 100fps x 3 for 300fps on a 240hz.. 100fps x 10 for 1000fps at 1000Hz, 80fps x 3 = 240fps or 80fps x 5 = 400fps, 80 x 10 for 800fps, etc. You could also integer scale 4k on a 8k 120hz years down the road too and hopefully get 4k 120hz on a 8k screen.

Even if you were running some future interpolation, interger scaling could still be beneficial. I'd think running a good base fps with enough motion definition to start with allowing for direct duplication interpolation would be a lot cleaner than manufacturing/guessing in-between frames because that causes some weird effects and would be a lot harder to do without input lag and artifacts.
 
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I feel we really need to be at 5K+ before it becomes a good option. 1080p on a 4K display is still lacking detail compared to 1440p even if it is sharper because there just aren't enough pixels to represent fine details. I feel 1440p and up is diminishing returns though so 5K with integer scaling could work well.
5K wont integer scale to 1080p.
 
I would think 4k on a 27 inch would be fine if you use 1080p for games with integer scaling. You can keep the desktop at 4k with regular windows scaling, no?
 
I would think 4k on a 27 inch would be fine if you use 1080p for games with integer scaling. You can keep the desktop at 4k with regular windows scaling, no?

Integer scaling to 1080p at 27"? That's going to look terrible, max I would do for 1080p is 23-24".
 
No it won't but it will for 1440p, which solves the issue of too few pixels in 1080p.
It doesnt solve the need to use 1080p.
Its a bumpy road until faster hardware.

tbh I misunderstood what you said when I first replied, I thought you didnt get what integer scaling was about.
I edited a bit out after noticing.
Although the need to use 1080p wont go away for a while with RT in its current form.
 
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Integer scaling to 1080p at 27"? That's going to look terrible, max I would do for 1080p is 23-24".

When i had the LG 27 1080p it looked horrible on the desktop but games didn't look that bad at all. In fact, i'm not sure i see much of a difference from 1080p and 1440p in games except that 1440p obviously looks less aliased. Meanwhile, 4k on a 27 is downright excessive but if you can run the desktop at 4k and games at 1080p seems like the best of both worlds to me.

I returned the Samsung BTW. Those white blotches on the screen were just too annoying. I ran a dark game like Thief Gold and they were visible everywhere, very faint unless on dark scenes but there.

Second return. Now i'm in a bind, if the next monitor is defective i may just get black listed by Amazon.

I also started getting some bad eyestrain from the Samsung, dry and burning eyes. I'm not sure why i assumed the VA would have been easier on the eyes than the IPS panel but i guess it's not? The only thing that helped was changing the pixel format from RGB 4:4:4 to YCvCr 4:4:4, which reduced the brightness of the monitor drastically. I have no idea why, but it reduced the strain by quite a bit, but with this setting i get horrible black crush in games so i have to switch constantly between RGB and YCvCr depending on whether i'm using the desktop or playing games.

To be honest, i'm undecided if i even want to get the same screen again. I like the lack of IPS glow, which was actually more huge than i expected, had no idea how horrible this glow was until i saw it without it, but other than that this VA experience was a mixed bag. Are there other good VA panels, possibly something with better quality control than what Samsung had with this unit?

Otherwise i have to abandon 144hz, since IPS screens at that speed are simply too expensive.
 
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When i had the LG 27 1080p it looked horrible on the desktop but games didn't look that bad at all. In fact, i'm not sure i see much of a difference from 1080p and 1440p in games except that 1440p obviously looks less aliased. Meanwhile, 4k on a 27 is downright excessive but if you can run the desktop at 4k and games at 1080p seems like the best of both worlds to me.

I returned the Samsung BTW. Those white blotches on the screen were just too annoying. I ran a dark game like Thief Gold and they were visible everywhere, very faint unless on dark scenes but there.

Second return. Now i'm in a bind, if the next monitor is defective i may just get black listed by Amazon.

I also started getting some bad eyestrain from the Samsung, dry and burning eyes. I'm not sure why i assumed the VA would have been easier on the eyes than the IPS panel but i guess it's not? The only thing that helped was changing the pixel format from RGB 4:4:4 to YCvCr 4:4:4, which reduced the brightness of the monitor drastically. I have no idea why, but it reduced the strain by quite a bit, but with this setting i get horrible black crush in games so i have to switch constantly between RGB and YCvCr depending on whether i'm using the desktop or playing games.

To be honest, i'm undecided if i even want to get the same screen again. I like the lack of IPS glow, which was actually more huge than i expected, had no idea how horrible this glow was until i saw it without it, but other than that this VA experience was a mixed bag. Are there other good VA panels, possibly something with better quality control than what Samsung had with this unit?

Otherwise i have to abandon 144hz, since IPS screens at that speed are simply too expensive.

Unfortunately I believe all 27" VA panels are made by Samsung, even if you see a different monitor brand like MSI or Gigabyte or Asus with a 27" VA monitor, they are actually using Samsung panels underneath. The only other option is from AUO but only comes in 32" flavor. Yes I know, the monitor market absolutely sucks.
 
So it's basically play the lottery with the Samsung or just give up on 144hz and pick a decent WQHD IPS at 75z and wait until a better monitor comes out.
 
yes defenitely, the prices really dropped in the eu for monitors in the last 2-3 years you can get one for like 170-190€ in a deal. I personally can*t stand ips corner glow though and went for a cheap TN 144hz, also because i play online fps games. Since then I never really looked back only forward to OLED screens becoming cheaper.
 
I walked through London Drugs a few weeks ago. Walls of various display panels. Mix of everything.

One caught my eye. Really loved the super deep blacks and color. Model is VG275q

Its a TN. Crazy right?
 
Their average response times are still about twice that of the fastest TN panels, no matter what "1ms" marketing they try to peddle. That said, that puts them into the "that's more than good enough" category where other pros of the display will be more relevant.

Seems to be only one 240 Hz 1440p TN panel on the horizon and personally I won't bother with anything 1080p anymore but someone who is only concerned with gaming might find that to be a good spot as it's easy to run at high framerates. TN panel tech seems to have seen quite little improvement over the last 5 years since based on TFT Central reviews my previous ASUS PG278Q is still one of the best on response times, contrast ratios have only gone up a little and viewing angles are about the same.
The average transitions, heck, even highest are fast enough for 144Hz. Those TN panels can actually have longer worse case transitions now. I wouldn't really put much weight to lowest transitions but rather how much difference there is between average and worst case, and how close they are each other. If you look at this review https://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/lg_27gl850.htm the LG 27GL850 has lower highest G2G transition than PG258Q (240Hz screen). Lenovo apparently is even slightly bit faster then the LG (while having 165Hz support).

Things sure look sweet in motion at 165Hz... No trailing or inverse ghosting and superb colour accuracy.
 
yes defenitely, the prices really dropped in the eu for monitors in the last 2-3 years you can get one for like 170-190€ in a deal. I personally can*t stand ips corner glow though and went for a cheap TN 144hz, also because i play online fps games. Since then I never really looked back only forward to OLED screens becoming cheaper.

I couldn't get used to the VA since it seemed washed out compared to my old IPS monitor, i doubt i could get used to any TN screen for the same reason, doesn't matter how "good" the colors are said to have become (they said the same for the VA one).

Right now i'm considering this one:

https://www.amazon.it/Acer-VG270Ubmiipx-Risoluzione-2560x1440-Luminosità/dp/B07GSFC4VS/ref=sr_1_5?__mk_it_IT=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&keywords=27+75hz+ips&qid=1571437246&s=pc&sr=1-5

I might even re-buy that old LG 27 1080p i had and put both of them side by side with a VESA arm. If i do that i wouldn't be spending that much more than simply getting a single 27 1440p 144hz IPS screen, which is ridiculous, but apparently that's what we have to deal with right now.
 
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If it is like on that image, not worth returning, chances of getting a worst screen are big. The second one you posted has more bleed, if it's more like that, might be worth it

It's exactly like the one in that forum. Without a bias lighting, it could see the white blotches even on less than pitch black scenes. Faint but there. With the bias lighting, they almost disappeared but not quite.

So back to Amazon it went. Considering what i'm reading about the Samsung i'm not even going to bother trying playing the lottery game with it.
 
This thread is depressing.
Years later and nothing has changed, just oled for those who can afford it.
Beginning to wonder if modern MEMs laser projectors will save us for screens.. Saw some prototypes in person recently and the resolution and power handling is getting feasible but probably still 3-5 years out. The micro led lithography based screens for VR are also promising too, they already are at 1000hz now... Real-time. Not interpolation BS. Resolution is high too just rgb is taking a bit of time.
 
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I have a feeling it's all a matter of priority for those companies. Like, the best screens go to mobile devices, next TVs, and whatever dredge is left on the factory floor is scrounged up to make PC monitors and sold to us bums who can't afford OLED screens.
 



Video I made comparison VA Samsung CRG5 to a Dell 1440p TN. The whites are better on the VA also the Blacks the Dell has a Yellow tint.
 
My cheapo 23 IPS monitor has yellow whites too, but the LG IPS monitor i bought originally didn't. Can't make those kind of comparisons i guess, it seems a lot of stuff depends on the model, not the type of screen.
 
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https://pcmonitors.info/reviews/aoc-24g2u-24g2/

24" 144Hz IPS panel. Seems like a pretty solid monitor overall with good IPS contrast (1400:1) and good motion clarity with the strongest overdrive setting actually being usable. Maybe give this one a shot? And make sure you get a C24G2 and not a C24G1 as that's a VA panel.

EDIT: I see you already mentioned it. Yeah I would say just try it at least.
 
Yeah, i considered it, but i tried my old IPS and it seems i can't go down from 27 inches now. Games are just too immersive with the bigger size. I loaded Doom 2016 on the older 23 inches panel and i felt like i got shoved into a tiny room all of a sudden.

So i decided to keep the VA after all. I cancelled my return, probably pissed off Amazon something fierce but warts and all for what i paid for it i'm getting basically every featured i wanted. 27 inches, 1440p, 144hz and some ok HDR, better than the HDR 400 i see on most monitors. I also popped the ring that covers the back where i fastened the arm into the monitor and now i'm actually getting some decent light from the led in the back, enough that i can use it as a bias lighting, which has made those white blotches disappear even in dark scenes, or made them so faint as not to be bothersome anymore. Chances of getting a screen with a similar problem are so high i'd rather not starting playing the lottery with this particular model. I don't even play lottery in real life because my luck sucks, haha.

Another thing that helped is setting the color temperature on the Radeon control panel at 6500k, which makes colors pop out much more than the automatic setting. It also makes them more saturated and less real, but they look acceptable enough with saturation lowered at 95.

I'll keep this for now and hopefully in a few years something that's not total garbage will come out.
 
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There are lot of opinions, here's mine:

VA: sucks for gaming. I can't stand the ghosting. I'll never buy one again for this purpose; I'm too sensitive to ghosting. VA is best for desktop / programming use however due to extremely high contrast, text is ultra sharp.
IPS: Best if you want the most colorful looking games with still acceptable latency and little ghosting and up to 144hz and 1440p.
TN: Best for competitive gaming. 240hz is best and 24-27" range 1080p. Color is worst of the three but not as bad as TN was years ago.

I have TN for gaming only and then VA for work. The two don't mix. If you really want to have only one monitor, get the IPS.
 
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