Picard Will Lead "Radically Altered" Life in New Star Trek Series

kju1 said:
The "new" Star Trek movies (the remakes) should have never happened. Period. They should have just skipped them entirely if they couldn't figure out a new storyline without jumping the shark by using a lame ass time travel event to rewrite the story.

I only know one show where that works and its precisely the premise of the entire show...and even there it doesn't always work as the show has lately become trash.
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The new films ... well, at least the character's started to feel a bit like younger versions of the original ones. However, I have to agree. The new kelvin timeline should never have happened. The real problem here is that no one can create anything original anymore. It's all a reboot of a reboot of a ... :vomit:. JJ Abrams is a thief, if he had an original idea the world might come to an end. Just take a look at what he did with Star Wars... It was a nostalgia money grab. The it became a political agenda / virtue signaling platform... At least Star Trek wasn't pushing the agendas all that hard. Other than Sulu in Beyond. Which didn't even bother me.

Just like with Discovery, which is hot garbage... They can't leave shit alone. They have to ruin canon. Couldn't do a Pike series... nope, that might actually have been good. Have to give Spock a sister he never talked about, explain it by a cover up and even after the last season of utter trash and stupidity (like not beaming Admiral what's her face out of the exploding deck area... because, they could have... a blast door protected Pike even though the saucer was breached utterly on both sides... and he was ground zero... Blast Doors are awesome! So is plot armor.)

Wish they had just done a new crew post Next Gen, new mission, new everything. Maybe actually channel star trek instead of a bleak, hate filled combat riddled future where everything seems worse than it is now... I love space combat and all, but Star Trek really shines on the individual story level and Trek is supposed to be combat last resort not first.

Picard is going to be less fun than watching Ice Pirates. As bad as Ice Pirates was, it was original and somewhat funny (still). I still talk about Space Herpes!
 
Legendary Gamer said:
The new films ... well, at least the character's started to feel a bit like younger versions of the original ones. However, I have to agree. The new kelvin timeline should never have happened. The real problem here is that no one can create anything original anymore. It's all a reboot of a reboot of a ... :vomit:. JJ Abrams is a thief, if he had an original idea the world might come to an end. Just take a look at what he did with Star Wars... It was a nostalgia money grab. The it became a political agenda / virtue signaling platform... At least Star Trek wasn't pushing the agendas all that hard. Other than Sulu in Beyond. Which didn't even bother me.

Just like with Discovery, which is hot garbage... They can't leave shit alone. They have to ruin canon. Couldn't do a Pike series... nope, that might actually have been good. Have to give Spock a sister he never talked about, explain it by a cover up and even after the last season of utter trash and stupidity (like not beaming Admiral what's her face out of the exploding deck area... because, they could have... a blast door protected Pike even though the saucer was breached utterly on both sides... and he was ground zero... Blast Doors are awesome! So is plot armor.)

Wish they had just done a new crew post Next Gen, new mission, new everything. Maybe actually channel star trek instead of a bleak, hate filled combat riddled future where everything seems worse than it is now... I love space combat and all, but Star Trek really shines on the individual story level and Trek is supposed to be combat last resort not first.

Picard is going to be less fun than watching Ice Pirates. As bad as Ice Pirates was, it was original and somewhat funny (still). I still talk about Space Herpes!
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I am amazed people keep doing prequels of any series/movie/genre. They suck almost 100% the time. I remember saying there was was actually 1 good prequel, but right now it escapes me what that was. Both "ST:Enterprise" and "ST: Discovery" were miserable canon breaking hot garbage. You can tap the franchise while doing something that comes after, and then you don't need to break canon, and have a weird jarring effect that the prequel ships/equipment, are more advanced than those from later timelines.
 
Snowdog said:
Still have billions of people on earth. Pretty sure they don't have big estates for everyone who wants one, any more than we do today.
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Obviously in Star Trek land, most people prefer to live in downtown high rise apartment buildings. You can see a few gigantic ones in the misty distance in the opening shot, and there's a whole ton of them in the establishing shot of San Francisco.
 
M76 said:
There shouldn't be such a thing as prime units.
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But there inevitably will be. Let's take San Francisco--as seen in the NYCC clip, with lots of highrises. The apartments facing the bay are going to be considered better than the ones facing away, exactly like how it is in the real world. Also, there are going to be some that are a little bit larger and some that are a little bit smaller, and some with higher ceilings or those that unfortunately face the sewage treatment plant (or the starport, if you prefer) and subject to noise or smell or whatever.

Just go looking at any of the modern 4-story luxury apartment buildings showing up in cities these days: you'll see a huge number of different variations on the exact same floor space, but aren't exactly the same for all kinds of reasons, and they all have different prices ($50/mo extra for fireplace, compared to an identical unit without the fireplace).
 
Snowdog said:
I am amazed people keep doing prequels of any series/movie/genre. They suck almost 100% the time.
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But they do well, because people keep watching and paying for it.

I only watched the first season of STD. My biggest actual complaint was probably the way Lorca went from a focused, driven "win this war at all costs" to a slobbering racist psycopath when he got back to his own universe. One of those two personalities doesn't make sense--you can take your pick; an argument could be made for either one.

Or look at how people keep buying Bethesda games, no matter how buggy they are or full of holes the plot is.

Apparently people don't care about how lowbrow or full of holes their entertainment is, as long as they agree with the basics.
 
1_rick said:
But they do well, because people keep watching and paying for it.

I only watched the first season of STD. My biggest actual complaint was probably the way Lorca went from a focused, driven "win this war at all costs" to a slobbering racist psycopath when he got back to his own universe. One of those two personalities doesn't make sense--you can take your pick; an argument could be made for either one.

Or look at how people keep buying Bethesda games, no matter how buggy they are or full of holes the plot is.

Apparently people don't care about how lowbrow or full of holes their entertainment is, as long as they agree with the basics.
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I feel like they went that route with Laroca in order to make effectively female space Hitler look better so they could justify bringing her back to their universe. Not that it made it any less of a batshit stupid idea.
 
1_rick said:
But they do well, because people keep watching and paying for it.
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My point was you can still milk a franchise with sequels, usually with better results. So if you have the choice between doing a sequel and a prequel, why do the prequel?
 
Snowdog said:
My point was you can still milk a franchise with sequels, usually with better results. So if you have the choice between doing a sequel and a prequel, why do the prequel?
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You haven't seen Star Wars: TFA and TLJ, have you?

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My only hope for Picard is to see John DeLancie return as Q.
 
blackacidevil said:
My only hope for Picard is to see John DeLancie return as Q.
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could be interesting but I always thought q was played by colin mochrie ;)

h09D3BE14.jpg
 
Jagger100 said:
But they were generic shoot 'em ups with details from TOS salted into them. That's their problem. Detail your generic shoot 'em ups with some original thought and don't drag other properties into your movie which someone felt couldn't stand on its own.
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And yet they were better than 1/2 of the TOS movies and better than all but 1 TNG movie.
 
nilepez said:
And yet they were better than 1/2 of the TOS movies and better than all but 1 TNG movie.
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Eeeeeeh no. No comment on Beyond as I haven't seen it, but Into Darkness is garbage. The reboot was okay, maybe on par with Generations. Better than Nemesis and the one with the immortal hippies. Worse than most of the TOS 2-4 and 6, better than 1 and 5. Into Darkness gets to sit down there with Nemesis and Final Frontier.
 
Snowdog said:
I am amazed people keep doing prequels of any series/movie/genre. They suck almost 100% the time. I remember saying there was was actually 1 good prequel, but right now it escapes me what that was. Both "ST:Enterprise" and "ST: Discovery" were miserable canon breaking hot garbage. You can tap the franchise while doing something that comes after, and then you don't need to break canon, and have a weird jarring effect that the prequel ships/equipment, are more advanced than those from later timelines.
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Tell me about it. How about "Lets go and do the prequels for the Game of Thrones series we just flushed down the toilet in the last season!"... lol. Prequels are all the rage for attempting to milk the shit out of a franchise when you have no creativity left and want to simply write origin stories for a bunch of characters that no one gives a shit about because they're already dead...

Going and doing a prequel for Black Widow... Don't care, she's already dead. One for Han Solo... Don't really care, he's already dead. Another Kenobi Film... Don't care, he's already dead. Let's do an entire series for Cassian Andor.... Don't care, he fucking dies in Rogue One. For fuck's sake... why not create a new damn character and write an original story for them? You know, like a totally new cast that for whatever property it is, picks a part of the damn galaxy that hasn't been explored and runs with it. God knows in Star Trek there is this ENTIRE GALAXY that could be explored by a totally different crew that has no ties to any pre-existing character or story arc & has almost zero chance of breaking established canon. That's right ... we finally got that, it's called the Orville ;).

Honestly, starting from scratch with characters with no ties to any pre-existing ones would have been a bit risky from a financial standpoint. However, it's absurd that no one has explored any new angles. All these stories have entire Worlds, Galaxies and spans of time that could be explored and they never do.

Say what terrible shit you want to about George Lucas and his prequel films, however, they are like masterpieces compared to the new shit coming out of Disney. At least, to Lucas's credit he introduced something new with each and every film that he made in the Star Wars Universe. The Disney shit is all nostalgia pinging bullshit that pulls on your heart strings to drain your wallet, and then there's the fact that the Last Jedi was a pile of steaming feces.

Back on topic: The new Star Trek shit in the Kelvin Timeline was different to a degree because of the Viacom / CBS split. It had to be divergent and a lot of people forget that. Same thing with Discovery (which I know no one really though through the abbreviation "STD") and need for divergence. Only good thing now is that Viacom and CBS are now one. Won't correct the shit writers currently, however, things might actually be able to move forward with yet another reboot... or some nonsense that brings the Kelvin timeline back in line or... Tarantino actually gets a movie in the Prime Timeline...

Star Trek 2009 reboot - Decent, for a reboot of a largely stagnant franchise. Wasn't really a fan of the entire Time Travel thing and would have loved to see George Kirk not die and the franchise could have started with three movies as George Kirk instead of killing him in the first 3 minutes of the film. However, filming George Kirk's life would have been original... JJ Abrams doesn't do original.

Into Darkness was a steaming pile of shit that I have only seen once. Some moments of the film I liked but overall how a centuries old WW3 Kahn is so smart that he's capable of designing Next Gen Tech in the Kelvin timeline TOS era is absurd. Among other issues. Bringing Kirk back from the Dead was... interesting. Super blood, wonderful... I have to consider this a first encounter with Kahn, not a replacement for Wrath of Kahn (which I hope they never reboot).

Beyond... The characters felt like the Star Trek TOS cast. They really fell into character finally. The story was shit, however.

Picard... sigh...
 
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Legendary Gamer said:
Tell me about it. How about "Lets go and do the prequels for the Game of Thrones series we just flushed down the toilet in the last season!"... lol. Prequels are all the rage for attempting to milk the shit out of a franchise when you have no creativity left and want to simply write origin stories for a bunch of characters that no one gives a shit about because they're already dead...

Going and doing a prequel for Black Widow... Don't care, she's already dead. One for Han Solo... Don't really care, he's already dead. Another Kenobi Film... Don't care, he's already dead. Let's do an entire series for Cassian Andor.... Don't care, he fucking dies in Rogue One. For fuck's sake... why not create a new damn character and write an original story for them? You know, like a totally new cast that for whatever property it is, picks a part of the damn galaxy that hasn't been explored and runs with it. God knows in Star Trek there is this ENTIRE GALAXY that could be explored by a totally different crew that has no ties to any pre-existing character or story arc & has almost zero chance of breaking established canon. That's right ... we finally got that, it's called the Orville ;).
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The only issue I have is that Kenobi could make a good series. Simply because McGregor is awesome as him and the character has elements to explore. So long as they approach it as a Chambara series similar to Zatoichi. If they are only going to make a single film, then I would simply just remake Yojimbo but Star Wars Style.
 
nilepez said:
And yet they were better than 1/2 of the TOS movies and better than all but 1 TNG movie.
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Beaming to different solar systems and magic healing factor wolverine blood and rock and roll tunes of death are not in good movies. They're in movies as kludgy MacGuffins to desparately sow together Massive CGI and hand to hand fight scenes. The first film is passable as an action flick. These films drained the franchise for promotional reasons only and a deficity of creativity.

And yet there's an audience for everything. No accounting for taste.
 
twonunpackmule said:
The only issue I have is that Kenobi could make a good series. Simply because McGregor is awesome as him and the character has elements to explore. So long as they approach it as a Chambara series similar to Zatoichi. If they are only going to make a single film, then I would simply just remake Yojimbo but Star Wars Style.
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As long as it's not Super Kenobi just sitting on his ass on Tatooine waiting 18 years for Luke to grow up. I kind of envisioned Kenobi being active for 10+ years helping the Rebel Alliance form and fight the Empire, before going into hiding completely. He could have been hunting down Jedi, saving them from the Inquisition and even killing inquisitors to save Jedi. Tatooine is cool and all and we all know all stories lead back to Tatooine for some reason or another, however, lets hope we see more of the galaxy.
 
polonyc2 said:
Star Trek: Picard | NYCC Trailer

premieres: Jan 23 2020 on CBS-AA

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Saw this and I'm actually looking forward to it now. At first had some doubts after some of the premise descriptions came out. This looks downright f'ing cool!
 
lostin3d said:
Saw this and I'm actually looking forward to it now. At first had some doubts after some of the premise descriptions came out. This looks downright f'ing cool!
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IDK ... Other than the Orion ship, the show looks like it's woefully lacking in substance. Hope it's good, but it's probably not. Especially if Kurtzman is still at the helm.
 
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Legendary Gamer said:
IDK ... Other than the Orion ship, the show looks like it's woefully lacking in substance. Hope it's good, but it's probably not.
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Substance is the last thing you should expect from this new series. Like or lump the JJ Abrams Kelvin movies; the fact remains that they were financially successful. (save Beyond) And replicating that feature film look and production value has been their guiding star with the CBSAA iterations of Star Trek. Big VFX, big action setpieces, big budget set design and nostalgia are the Prime Directives- not story, writing or characters.

Not saying it's going to suck. Just saying that we shouldn't get our hopes that high just because of Patrick Stewart's involvement. (who hasn't had a creative role in Star Trek since Insurrection and a half-dozen TNG episode directing gigs)
 
Saturn_V said:
Substance is the last thing you should expect from this new series. Like or lump the JJ Abrams Kelvin movies; the fact remains that they were financially successful. (save Beyond) And replicating that feature film look and production value has been their guiding star with the CBSAA iterations of Star Trek. Big VFX, big action setpieces, big budget set design and nostalgia are the Prime Directives- not story, writing or characters.

Not saying it's going to suck. Just saying that we shouldn't get our hopes that high just because of Patrick Stewart's involvement. (who hasn't had a creative role in Star Trek since Insurrection and a half-dozen TNG episode directing gigs)
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Sure the new movies sold well, to an entirely new audience and essentially divided the entire fan base just like the new star wars films did. After Beyond flopped, star trek stalled hard and no one wants to touch the franchise on the film front. The Last Jedi shows that a film can make a shitload of money but actually be a steaming pile of shit in the long run. That's the Star Trek franchise, it can make money in the short run but the long term viability of the franchise is non existent. There is no value here anymore.

The only science fiction shows worth a damn these days are the Orville (TNG) and the Expanse and maybe Altered Carbon
 
lostin3d said:
Saw this and I'm actually looking forward to it now. At first had some doubts after some of the premise descriptions came out. This looks downright f'ing cool!
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I fear this trailer has cherry picked scenes to appeal to old fans, but is not actually representative of the final product. But if its really like this then it might actually be good.
 
Snowdog said:
I am amazed people keep doing prequels of any series/movie/genre. They suck almost 100% the time. I remember saying there was was actually 1 good prequel, but right now it escapes me what that was. Both "ST:Enterprise" and "ST: Discovery" were miserable canon breaking hot garbage. You can tap the franchise while doing something that comes after, and then you don't need to break canon, and have a weird jarring effect that the prequel ships/equipment, are more advanced than those from later timelines.
Click to expand...

Better Call Saul is a prime example of a well done prequel. Because it follows the path of a side character.
 
lostin3d said:
Saw this and I'm actually looking forward to it now. At first had some doubts after some of the premise descriptions came out. This looks downright f'ing cool!
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I was actually more impressed with the first trailer they released in July...that felt more like TNG Picard...

 
All prequels are just a long drawn out version of ‘three weeks earlier’.
 
WBurchnall said:
Star trek moves one step closer to star wars with ultra violent Picard haunted by war. Aka first contact action hero Picard that was nothing like TNG
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I always assumed that the anger and violence were the results of PTSD. You see glimpses of this in the later TNG episodes; however, it is always tempered by his logic. He was all for wiping out the Borg civilization using the computer virus that was proposed in I, Borg, until Guinan convinced him to actually talk to Hue. No one bats an eye when the Enterprise (under the command of Beverly Crusher) obliterates the Borg Assimilator in Descent.

I guess the reason why I always accepted his performance in First Contact is at least in part because I have a lot of friends that served in the military, several of whom were in active combat or served in combat zones. They are generally fine, but I have seen them do complete 180s in terms of going from calm to violent when events have triggered them. Counseling helped them quite a bit, but it wasn't until after they had "blown up" in public that any effort was made to get them help (they tried, but were turned down until after bad things had happened).

Getting back to Picard, from this perspective, it makes sense. The Borg always made him feel uneasy after having been assimilated. Going back in time to completely destroy your entire planet's history seems like a reasonable triggering event for someone that is already uneasy. In the end, logic wins out, but it takes him being confronted by Lily and being called Captain Ahab to realize what he was in the process of doing.
 
Legendary Gamer said:
The new films ... well, at least the character's started to feel a bit like younger versions of the original ones. However, I have to agree. The new kelvin timeline should never have happened. The real problem here is that no one can create anything original anymore. It's all a reboot of a reboot of a ... :vomit:. JJ Abrams is a thief, if he had an original idea the world might come to an end. Just take a look at what he did with Star Wars... It was a nostalgia money grab. The it became a political agenda / virtue signaling platform... At least Star Trek wasn't pushing the agendas all that hard. Other than Sulu in Beyond. Which didn't even bother me.
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Yeah, I'm sick of it. 99% of the movies produced in US, UK and France are about political agendas for the gays, the racial minorities, global warming, limited politically correct language to authorized words, mostly simplified language trying not to say anything precise, with educational reminders of what not to say and how to ban people saying it... plus the evil guy is always in a way or another referred to Donald Trump. And this is about every kind of movie or series... all except those produced by Clint Eastwood. I've heard that even Sylvester Stalone bowed to China will not to speak badly about them and the countries they are in good relation with, because China (I mean state controlled companies by members of the communist party of the People Republic of China) has a foot in every US production now.
So it's very difficult to watch anything produced recently without feeling offended as being considered a brain-dead political puppet to be "educated in the good direction".
 
Jandor said:
Yeah, I'm sick of it. 99% of the movies produced in US, UK and France are about political agendas for the gays, the racial minorities, global warming, limited politically correct language to authorized words, mostly simplified language trying not to say anything precise, with educational reminders of what not to say and how to ban people saying it... plus the evil guy is always in a way or another referred to Donald Trump. And this is about every kind of movie or series... all except those produced by Clint Eastwood. I've heard that even Sylvester Stalone bowed to China will not to speak badly about them and the countries they are in good relation with, because China (I mean state controlled companies by members of the communist party of the People Republic of China) has a foot in every US production now.
So it's very difficult to watch anything produced recently without feeling offended as being considered a brain-dead political puppet to be "educated in the good direction".
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If you go looking for politics in everything you will find it.
 
Derangel said:
If you go looking for politics in everything you will find it.
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But this is new. It's been 10 maybe 15 years that this is like becoming the main purpose on Cinema and TV.
If you look at, for instance, Super Girl, this is 100% political series. They don't miss one shot for the democrates at the very left and anti-Trump propaganda, and this is supposed to be series quite for the children.
This would be considered indecent propaganda 20 years ago, even under Clinton administration. Problem is that there is no series and very little movies, mostly independent, as of today, that do not spill the same propaganda. This is so huge that the purpose is not anymore the official subject of the series but the underlying propaganda.
And of course if you look at the mainstream media, it's all the same novlang they use.
 
On the contrary, everybody knows Picard series TNG were very much depicting a kind of socialist civilization very much military ruled, very much overly controlling everything, but had few freedom limitations and was quite against arbitrary rules. In fact it was all about logic and common sense. Fact is I believe a socialist system cannot reach that kind of good will because people act in their own interest, but however, I wasn't shocked to watch all this because there was no real political agenda but only common sense apart from very little political agenda with no direct implication. In the series of today there is a complete lack of common sense but it's all turned into political propaganda.
 
Jandor said:
But this is new. It's been 10 maybe 15 years that this is like becoming the main purpose on Cinema and TV.
If you look at, for instance, Super Girl, this is 100% political series. They don't miss one shot for the democrates at the very left and anti-Trump propaganda, and this is supposed to be series quite for the children.
This would be considered indecent propaganda 20 years ago, even under Clinton administration. Problem is that there is no series and very little movies, mostly independent, as of today, that do not spill the same propaganda. This is so huge that the purpose is not anymore the official subject of the series but the underlying propaganda.
And of course if you look at the mainstream media, it's all the same novlang they use.
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Supergirl has been a political show from the get go, it was marketed that way. A lot of the other Arrowverse shows don't go that route. Batwoman seemed like it might go that way from the trailers, but apparently the series itself doesn't. I don't watch movies or TV expecting there to be some political message so I generally don't see them, unless its painfully obvious (Last Jedi, Young Justice: Outsiders, etc). I don't think movies and TV are any more political now than they were in the past. Entertainment reflects the real world so what happens in the real world is going to be presented in entertainment. The big difference between then and now is that we're more aware of it and social media (and mainstream media) has made people more radicalized and angry about everything, no matter what side you're on.
 
Jandor said:
But this is new. It's been 10 maybe 15 years that this is like becoming the main purpose on Cinema and TV.
If you look at, for instance, Super Girl, this is 100% political series. They don't miss one shot for the democrates at the very left and anti-Trump propaganda,
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Anti-Trump isn't necessarily a pro democrat/left position.

It's a pro human one.
 
Jandor said:
Yeah, I'm sick of it. 99% of the movies produced in US, UK and France are about political agendas for the gays, the racial minorities, global warming, limited politically correct language to authorized words, mostly simplified language trying not to say anything precise, with educational reminders of what not to say and how to ban people saying it... plus the evil guy is always in a way or another referred to Donald Trump. And this is about every kind of movie or series... all except those produced by Clint Eastwood. I've heard that even Sylvester Stalone bowed to China will not to speak badly about them and the countries they are in good relation with, because China (I mean state controlled companies by members of the communist party of the People Republic of China) has a foot in every US production now.
So it's very difficult to watch anything produced recently without feeling offended as being considered a brain-dead political puppet to be "educated in the good direction".
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The incel detector is off the charts!
 
MrCaffeineX said:
Getting back to Picard, from this perspective, it makes sense. The Borg always made him feel uneasy after having been assimilated.
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Exactly--and, just in case anyone at the time might have forgetten, they started the movie out with a reminder of him being assimilated, with that lovely drill-in-the-eye scene as the start of the movie.
 
Jandor said:
Yeah, I'm sick of it. 99% of the movies produced in US, UK and France are about political agendas for the gays, the racial minorities, global warming, limited politically correct language to authorized words, mostly simplified language trying not to say anything precise, with educational reminders of what not to say and how to ban people saying it... plus the evil guy is always in a way or another referred to Donald Trump. And this is about every kind of movie or series... all except those produced by Clint Eastwood. I've heard that even Sylvester Stalone bowed to China will not to speak badly about them and the countries they are in good relation with, because China (I mean state controlled companies by members of the communist party of the People Republic of China) has a foot in every US production now.
So it's very difficult to watch anything produced recently without feeling offended as being considered a brain-dead political puppet to be "educated in the good direction".
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Sounds like a Jandor problem. Virtually all art is political. I guess you also hated First Blood (as well as the cartoon like sequels), because they were all political...or was it OK, because it jibes with your politics? Surely you hated Star Trek TOS, because it was certainly political or is it OK if it comes from your youth before you were political?

Movies have always been political.
 
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