LG 38GL950G - 37.5" 3840x1600/G-Sync/175Hz

bigbluefe said:
Actually, people are underrating how serious the burn in issue is. It's bad. Really bad. You could not do a Windows task bar scenario on OLED screens without major problems.

World of Warcraft players would have their HUD burned in after about a week of normal play for them.
Click to expand...

So hide the task bar.

I really don't get the bitching and moaning from people when it comes to this. Hide your fucking task bar, cycle your damn wallpapers, and remove your icons. Are people helpless or something? I already do all these things at home and I use an LCD monitor. If people don't want to be bothered by making these quick simple adjustments, fine. But complaining about things that take 5 seconds to adjust is ridiculous.

WoW is also one of the worst examples if you're talking about static HUDs, since there are about a million addons for changing every single aspect of the game's UI. I play WoW, and most of my screen is clear, with a small UI along the bottom. I literally haven't played with the normal UI since the day I began playing, and that's almost 10 years now.

Other games, sure, but I guess that's just the nature of HUDs.

bananadude said:
Yes, and some people would buy a new Ferrari every year when it needs an oil change. You are in the 0.01% and monitor manufacturers don't cater for you, and never will. What happens at the upper echelons of monitor tech is hard to predict, but in the mainstream OLED will never arrive. LCD will be around for the rest of our lifetimes, I am quite certain of that.
Click to expand...

Yet OLED is fairly present in laptop options. Is there a meaningful difference? They're both display panels. It's simply that most OLED panels currently aren't being cut for monitors, and LG's production lines are dedicated to TVs. I imagine we'll get more 30" and 40" options in the years ahead once LG's 88" line gets running and costs come down. Or from JOLED.
 
I have never hid the taskar since 2017 and I have yet to see any kind of burn-in on my C7 55". I just checked right now with DPT - solid colors look clean like on a brand new display. Burn-in issue is way overexagerrated.
 
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l88bastard said:
Pretty soon OLED will be as cheap to make as toilet paper and take a bigger market share from craptastic LCD. I have been hearing SED and MicroLED fantasies for ages now, but OLED seems to be making much farther consumer progress. And yes manufactures do cater to me.... *pets my Alienware 55 OLED*
Click to expand...

There's no evidence OLED is getting cheaper... well, in TV's yes, but they're a different animal and sell in FAR greater numbers than monitors ever will, people always forget that. Ironically though, the best chance for affordable OLED for PC is in fact a TV, what with VRR now soon being possible (if that actually works well), plus a 48" OLED coming next year. Again though, size is the problem here, even at 48".

Your Alienware 55" is a halo product and not for the masses, obviously, and at that size, hardly desktop suitable, which is what I'm referring to.


gan7114 said:
So hide the task bar.

I really don't get the bitching and moaning from people when it comes to this. Hide your fucking task bar, cycle your damn wallpapers, and remove your icons. Are people helpless or something? I already do all these things at home and I use an LCD monitor. If people don't want to be bothered by making these quick simple adjustments, fine. But complaining about things that take 5 seconds to adjust is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Why, why, why does this nonsense persist... no one, and I mean literally NO ONE on planet earth is staring at a desktop all day! This is not the problem with OLED. It's people who work in front of a monitor using Photoshop, video editing, DTP etc. for 12-16+ hours a day. OLED is always going to be impractical for such use-case scenarios, and this is a huge sector of the potential consumer base that OLED would want to sell to, and they simply won't buy it as a result... nevermind it being price prohibitive, which it will be, as once you get down below 40", you're out of TV territory regards mass production... this is a big reason why 21" OLEDs are so damn expensive... they're ONLY going to be monitors at this size, therefore a much, much smaller sell-through.

Gaming is actually fine for the most part on OLED... but the vast majority of gamers won't pay thousands for an OLED monitor, not when you can get a killer VRR HDMI 2.1 55" OLED TV for less than $1500 (and it's only getting cheaper). That is assuming they have a place for such a large screen. Many people will just relocate their gaming set-up to a lounge if they don't, as I have seen many people already do.
 
bananadude said:
Why, why, why does this nonsense persist... no one, and I mean literally NO ONE on planet earth is staring at a desktop all day!
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying overall, but I absolutely might stare at a desktop all day. I might do it for weeks on end.

I would need to be certain that any monitor failures would not be due to this usage -- and the real concern with OLED isn't just 'burn in', where images are 'etched', but uneven color wear, which will cause tremendous and constant calibration issues on different parts of the screen.

I'm certain that Eizo isn't marketing their OLED monitor to do such either.

StryderxX said:
I still don't understand what this monitor has that is requiring LG to ask almost double the price than previous offerings.
Click to expand...

There are other monitors that share the capabilities of this monitor?
 
IdiotInCharge said:
I get what you're saying overall, but I absolutely might stare at a desktop all day. I might do it for weeks on end.

I would need to be certain that any monitor failures would not be due to this usage -- and the real concern with OLED isn't just 'burn in', where images are 'etched', but uneven color wear, which will cause tremendous and constant calibration issues on different parts of the screen.

I'm certain that Eizo isn't marketing their OLED monitor to do such either.
Click to expand...


People staring at their desktops isn't the problem though, that's all I'm saying, and if it was, it's easily resolved by the solutions you suggest. Working in applications for hours on end is not, unless you have a multiple monitor set-up, but then that comes with hassle and delay to your work-flow. It's not practical and people won't do it.

EIZO have stated that users should turn the monitor off periodically to avoid burn-in. This is not practical either, and in a working situation, again, people just won't do it. And how often are you supposed to do this? It's vague advice at best, and not at all helpful. They're just covering themselves because they know it's a problem. Not that they really needed to bother given those people buying it will be so rich they won't care. Plus I don't get the sense EIZO are marketing the Foris Nova as anything but a rich person's play thing or e-peen showpiece. It only further illustrates how ridiculously far away OLED is from ever having any penetration into the traditional desktop monitor market, i.e at around the 30" (perhaps up to 40") size.
 
bananadude said:
Why, why, why does this nonsense persist... no one, and I mean literally NO ONE on planet earth is staring at a desktop all day! This is not the problem with OLED. It's people who work in front of a monitor using Photoshop, video editing, DTP etc. for 12-16+ hours a day. OLED is always going to be impractical for such use-case scenarios, and this is a huge sector of the potential consumer base that OLED would want to sell to, and they simply won't buy it as a result... nevermind it being price prohibitive, which it will be, as once you get down below 40", you're out of TV territory regards mass production... this is a big reason why 21" OLEDs are so damn expensive... they're ONLY going to be monitors at this size, therefore a much, much smaller sell-through.

Gaming is actually fine for the most part on OLED... but the vast majority of gamers won't pay thousands for an OLED monitor, not when you can get a killer VRR HDMI 2.1 55" OLED TV for less than $1500 (and it's only getting cheaper). That is assuming they have a place for such a large screen. Many people will just relocate their gaming set-up to a lounge if they don't, as I have seen many people already do.
Click to expand...

I can't tell from the context, is what I said nonsense, or the sentiment I was replying to nonsense?

In any event...

Yeah, there's always going to be use cases. Someone who wants a daily driver monitor for spreed sheets or web browsing, well, all I can suggest is to stick with VA or IPS. OLED just isn't for them, nor would it make much sense to pay OLED prices for that kind of work. If we're talking about Photoshop and video editing then we're likely talking about using professional grade equipment -- BVM level mastering monitors and the like -- e.g. nothing that's on general consumer shelves, nor affordable to them.

I think the real game changer will be people gradually using OLED TVs for PC desktop use. It's been said for years that the lines between TVs and monitors will blur: 4:4:4 subpixel chroma, wide color gamut, low input lag that is suitable for gaming, and high hertz were all historic barriers between the two with monitors having the advantage, but not anymore. At this point, all we really need is a reduction in OLED TV size from 55" to somewhere in the low 40"s and there will really be no reason for the general consumer to buy a traditional monitor anymore.
 
gan7114 said:
At this point, all we really need is a reduction in OLED TV size from 55" to somewhere in the low 40"s and there will really be no reason for the general consumer to buy a traditional monitor anymore.
Click to expand...

The general consumer spends US$100 on a ~24" whatever...

"Power users", which is still a broad category, might care more about a great many things -- and cost will still be one of them. Few of us are willing to pay top dollar to get as close to perfect as possible; for me, the LG 38GL950G title monitor is pretty damn close, assuming that it also tests well.

But in reality, I'd need an OLED of similar size that accepted a 240Hz input signal with hardware G-Sync.
 
bananadude said:
We've just seen EIZO issue a warning with its Foris Nova 21" OLED monitor, telling people to turn it off periodiclally to avoid burn-in... this says it all really. If OLED ever became an affordable and common PC monitor tech (which I'm quite certain it won't), it's a dead cert forums across the internet will be bombarded with people complaining about burn-in and rejected warranty claims, as no manufacturer is ever going to cover it.
Click to expand...

I guess the tens if not hundreds of thousands of laptops currently being sold with OLED panels are all going to fail with burn-in then, you heard it here first. Hard to believe that every major laptop manufacturer(except for Apple... yet) would put such a broken technology on their devices!
 
Is this thing ever coming out? It’s the only monitor on the near horizon that I’d replace my Alienware AW3418DW for.

(assuming the reviews are decent)
 
Panel said:
How does FALD work for desktop use and SDR content (movies/games)? I’ve never had an HDR screen before; I thought it was only used during HDR content and that all zone illuminated at the same brightness during desktop use. Is the cursor haloing really gone at low brightness with just 384 zones?
Click to expand...

FALD works in SDR as well and it is a game changer. The only way you will ever notice halos from the mouse cursor is if you use your pc in complete darkness or perhaps run very high SDR brightness levels, any bias light/ambient light while setting the brightness to 100-120 nits for SDR like I do will make halos completely unnoticeable. The end result is having a contrast ratio that no edge lit IPS could ever come close to, even in a worst case scenario the FALD contrast will be nearly double that of an edge lit. And this is coming from the biggest hater of IPS panels, I wouldn't touch edge lit ones with a 10 ft pole, and yet I find that having FALD makes them completely acceptable, at least for low brightness SDR content...HDR on the other hand is a huge blooming mess so I stick to OLED exclusively for HDR content in the mean time.
 
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Sancus said:
I guess the tens if not hundreds of thousands of laptops currently being sold with OLED panels are all going to fail with burn-in then, you heard it here first. Hard to believe that every major laptop manufacturer(except for Apple... yet) would put such a broken technology on their devices!
Click to expand...

I've had my Thinkpad for two years now with an OLED screen and use it almost exclusively for web surfing with the web browser tabs up in Chrome. It has tons of burn in.... oh wait, that's right, it has zero burn in. Crisis averted. After having three OLED TV's, one OLED monitor and an OLED laptop (all with zero burn in and all used on the PC), I'm sure glad forum warriors that have never had any OLED's let me know how terrible they are and that they burn in like crazy!
 
bananadude said:
OLED, and obviously not Plasma, have never been used as mainstream dedicated PC monitors... i.e for 12-16+ hours a day, same windows open, Photoshop, video editing, DTP applications etc. You cannot compare a technology which, for virtually its entire history, has been used for casual gaming/viewing up to only a few hours a day, if that. This is an ENTIRELY different use case scenario we're talking about, and one that far more closely resembles those torture tests the likes of Rtings carry out, and see inevitable burn-in as a result.

We've just seen EIZO issue a warning with its Foris Nova 21" OLED monitor, telling people to turn it off periodiclally to avoid burn-in... this says it all really. If OLED ever became an affordable and common PC monitor tech (which I'm quite certain it won't), it's a dead cert forums across the internet will be bombarded with people complaining about burn-in and rejected warranty claims, as no manufacturer is ever going to cover it.
Click to expand...
bigbluefe said:
Actually, people are underrating how serious the burn in issue is. It's bad. Really bad. You could not do a Windows task bar scenario on OLED screens without major problems.

World of Warcraft players would have their HUD burned in after about a week of normal play for them.
Click to expand...
It seems the two gentlemen I’ve quoted below got to saying this before I could, but I’ll just reiterate: OLED has been on two laptops for the past several years now. They are Dell’s 13” Alienware and Lenovo’s 13” Yoga (one of them anyway; they have so many variants now). Look around on the internet, and you’ll see that there aren’t forums full of people complaining about burn-in on them, even though they were both pretty popular machines. This, to me, is enough precedent to create confidence in OLED’s use on the desktop. And it seems that pretty much all major PC laptop vendors agree, because as of this year, they’ve expanded OLED panels to a slew of other machines, most of them being 15” devices with potent hardware, designed for more serious work. Apple’s poised to release a 16” MacBook Pro in the coming weeks, and while we can’t be certain, there’s a decent chance that it will be rocking an OLED panel (and if it is, I may be upgrading to it). Suffice to say, this isn’t theory anymore. Of course EIZO wants to cover its ass in the case of any burn in issues. Of course they want to make absolutely certain everyone’s informed. That doesn’t mean that it’s going to be an issue, or at least not a major one.
Sancus said:
I guess the tens if not hundreds of thousands of laptops currently being sold with OLED panels are all going to fail with burn-in then, you heard it here first. Hard to believe that every major laptop manufacturer(except for Apple... yet) would put such a broken technology on their devices!
Click to expand...
Vega said:
I've had my Thinkpad for two years now with an OLED screen and use it almost exclusively for web surfing with the web browser tabs up in Chrome. It has tons of burn in.... oh wait, that's right, it has zero burn in. Crisis averted. After having three OLED TV's, one OLED monitor and an OLED laptop (all with zero burn in and all used on the PC), I'm sure glad forum warriors that have never had any OLED's let me know how terrible they are and that they burn in like crazy!
Click to expand...
 
I've stopped trying to win the burn in debate a long time ago. Burn in is something that will always, ALWAYS be brought up with OLED no matter what. You're just talking to a wall at this point. If people want to deny themselves that OLED eye candy because they are afraid of the burn in boogeyman then just let them be. The rest of us on the other hand will enjoy our true 0 nit black levels and instant response times.
 
skypine27 said:
Is this thing ever coming out? It’s the only monitor on the near horizon that I’d replace my Alienware AW3418DW for.

(assuming the reviews are decent)
Click to expand...

Nobody knows, I check daily and it's always wild baseless speculation. I really wish manufacturers would stop pre announcing monitors at all. They are so poor at releasing them it would be best to just wait until they are ready to ship before making an announcement. Its insanity to watch certain displays take 2 years from a CES reveal to come to market in some cases.
 
bananadude said:
There's no evidence OLED is getting cheaper... well, in TV's yes, but they're a different animal and sell in FAR greater numbers than monitors ever will, people always forget that. Ironically though, the best chance for affordable OLED for PC is in fact a TV, what with VRR now soon being possible (if that actually works well), plus a 48" OLED coming next year. Again though, size is the problem here, even at 48".

Your Alienware 55" is a halo product and not for the masses, obviously, and at that size, hardly desktop suitable, which is what I'm referring to.




Why, why, why does this nonsense persist... no one, and I mean literally NO ONE on planet earth is staring at a desktop all day! This is not the problem with OLED. It's people who work in front of a monitor using Photoshop, video editing, DTP etc. for 12-16+ hours a day. OLED is always going to be impractical for such use-case scenarios, and this is a huge sector of the potential consumer base that OLED would want to sell to, and they simply won't buy it as a result... nevermind it being price prohibitive, which it will be, as once you get down below 40", you're out of TV territory regards mass production... this is a big reason why 21" OLEDs are so damn expensive... they're ONLY going to be monitors at this size, therefore a much, much smaller sell-through.

Gaming is actually fine for the most part on OLED... but the vast majority of gamers won't pay thousands for an OLED monitor, not when you can get a killer VRR HDMI 2.1 55" OLED TV for less than $1500 (and it's only getting cheaper). That is assuming they have a place for such a large screen. Many people will just relocate their gaming set-up to a lounge if they don't, as I have seen many people already do.
Click to expand...


Your always going to need two monitors as long as you have two different end user needs.

LCDs are built to be productivity and creativity workhorses.
OLEDS are meant to be for consumer consumption.
 
gan7114 said:
So hide the task bar.

I really don't get the bitching and moaning from people when it comes to this. Hide your fucking task bar, cycle your damn wallpapers, and remove your icons. Are people helpless or something? I already do all these things at home and I use an LCD monitor. If people don't want to be bothered by making these quick simple adjustments, fine. But complaining about things that take 5 seconds to adjust is ridiculous.

WoW is also one of the worst examples if you're talking about static HUDs, since there are about a million addons for changing every single aspect of the game's UI. I play WoW, and most of my screen is clear, with a small UI along the bottom. I literally haven't played with the normal UI since the day I began playing, and that's almost 10 years now.

Other games, sure, but I guess that's just the nature of HUDs.



Yet OLED is fairly present in laptop options. Is there a meaningful difference? They're both display panels. It's simply that most OLED panels currently aren't being cut for monitors, and LG's production lines are dedicated to TVs. I imagine we'll get more 30" and 40" options in the years ahead once LG's 88" line gets running and costs come down. Or from JOLED.
Click to expand...

Hide the task bar. What a joke. You honestly think I'm going to change any of my behavior AT ALL for a display? No. It's going to change for ME.
 
bananadude said:
Yes, and some people would buy a new Ferrari every year when it needs an oil change. You are in the 0.01% and monitor manufacturers don't cater for you, and never will. What happens at the upper echelons of monitor tech is hard to predict, but in the mainstream OLED will never arrive. LCD will be around for the rest of our lifetimes, I am quite certain of that.
Click to expand...

Nah, MicroLED is imminent. Worst case scenario it's like 15 years off.
 
Vega said:
I've had my Thinkpad for two years now with an OLED screen and use it almost exclusively for web surfing with the web browser tabs up in Chrome. It has tons of burn in.... oh wait, that's right, it has zero burn in. Crisis averted. After having three OLED TV's, one OLED monitor and an OLED laptop (all with zero burn in and all used on the PC), I'm sure glad forum warriors that have never had any OLED's let me know how terrible they are and that they burn in like crazy!
Click to expand...

Panel said:
It seems the two gentlemen I’ve quoted below got to saying this before I could, but I’ll just reiterate: OLED has been on two laptops for the past several years now. They are Dell’s 13” Alienware and Lenovo’s 13” Yoga (one of them anyway; they have so many variants now). Look around on the internet, and you’ll see that there aren’t forums full of people complaining about burn-in on them, even though they were both pretty popular machines. This, to me, is enough precedent to create confidence in OLED’s use on the desktop. And it seems that pretty much all major PC laptop vendors agree, because as of this year, they’ve expanded OLED panels to a slew of other machines, most of them being 15” devices with potent hardware, designed for more serious work. Apple’s poised to release a 16” MacBook Pro in the coming weeks, and while we can’t be certain, there’s a decent chance that it will be rocking an OLED panel (and if it is, I may be upgrading to it). Suffice to say, this isn’t theory anymore. Of course EIZO wants to cover its ass in the case of any burn in issues. Of course they want to make absolutely certain everyone’s informed. That doesn’t mean that it’s going to be an issue, or at least not a major one.
Click to expand...

MistaSparkul said:
I've stopped trying to win the burn in debate a long time ago. Burn in is something that will always, ALWAYS be brought up with OLED no matter what. You're just talking to a wall at this point. If people want to deny themselves that OLED eye candy because they are afraid of the burn in boogeyman then just let them be. The rest of us on the other hand will enjoy our true 0 nit black levels and instant response times.
Click to expand...


And what are the specs of these OLED panels in laptops... I think you'll find they are 400 nits and offer very little in respect to meaningful HDR, not what people will want in a larger (and very expensive) monitor anyway, and far from what TV's can provide. If this is the future of OLED monitors... well yeah, I'm sure we'll be OK with burn-in... but this ain't gonna cut it for most people. Or are you folks all suggesting that a 400-nit OLED monitor is actually all people will ever want and need? It is probably the only way manufacturers will ever get a monitor out there that doesn't cost the same as a small family hatchback (and avoid them getting truck loads of burn-in returns), but it will sell very poorly because most people will just look at an OLED TV and realise it offers so much more for much less money. OLED monitors are NEVER going to be able to compete with TV's given the market size and volume... we'll just see the niche (and crazy expensive) models like the EIZO Foris Nova in the monitor space. Anyone else will have to get a TV.

It goes without saying that if LCD and OLED were equal in price, there wouldn't even be a contest, but why anyone thinks this is likely is beyond me. Give it a decade MAYBE... if all of China abandons LCD production.

There is a reason Alienware went for 55" (it's a panel size in mass production), and charge $4K for it (it won't sell very many units). Someone needs to start manufacturing a smaller OLED panel in order for any monitor manufacturer to consider putting it in an OLED monitor... and no one is going to make 32" OLED TV's because there is no market for them. LG have the 48" coming next year... a step in the right direction sure, and maybe if that sells REALLY well, they would consider a 43"... that's just about usable on a desktop. In theory, Alienware could then put that in a monitor and charge $2K for it. That might actually work, but this is years away and requires a lot of ducks to line up in a row. It's the only hope though.
 
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I would say burn in is always a possibility, depending on the panel and how the user uses it, but its not as bad as it was when OLED first came out. The manufacturers have figured out ways to improve panels so they dont face burn in like they used to. If you want to use a OLED do so if not then dont fuss over it. My 2 cents on it.
 
Vega said:
I've had my Thinkpad for two years now with an OLED screen and use it almost exclusively for web surfing with the web browser tabs up in Chrome. It has tons of burn in.... oh wait, that's right, it has zero burn in. Crisis averted. After having three OLED TV's, one OLED monitor and an OLED laptop (all with zero burn in and all used on the PC), I'm sure glad forum warriors that have never had any OLED's let me know how terrible they are and that they burn in like crazy!
Click to expand...

Nah, man. Have you checked again today? Maybe yours are defective. They are supposed to come with burn-in right out of the box.

MistaSparkul said:
I've stopped trying to win the burn in debate a long time ago. Burn in is something that will always, ALWAYS be brought up with OLED no matter what. You're just talking to a wall at this point. If people want to deny themselves that OLED eye candy because they are afraid of the burn in boogeyman then just let them be. The rest of us on the other hand will enjoy our true 0 nit black levels and instant response times.
Click to expand...

I wish there was a way to like a post more than once. Because this, all day.

I'm getting tired of trying to remind people that there are many of us who haven't had ANY issues, and even if there was an issue with burn-in or degradation after years of abuse, most of us would happily buy another one because they're just that amazing and there's no going back to LCD.

So I'll just continue to enjoy my display because you're right, it's a lost cause.
 
MistaSparkul said:
I've stopped trying to win the burn in debate a long time ago. Burn in is something that will always, ALWAYS be brought up with OLED no matter what. You're just talking to a wall at this point. If people want to deny themselves that OLED eye candy because they are afraid of the burn in boogeyman then just let them be. The rest of us on the other hand will enjoy our true 0 nit black levels and instant response times.
Click to expand...

Lateralus said:
I wish there was a way to like a post more than once. Because this, all day.

I'm getting tired of trying to remind people that there are many of us who haven't had ANY issues, and even if there was an issue with burn-in or degradation after years of abuse, most of us would happily buy another one because they're just that amazing.

So I'll just continue to enjoy my display because you're right, it's a lost cause.
Click to expand...


No one is denying themselves anything... there ain't any desktop OLEDs available lol! 21" sure ain't it, and 55" is just ridiculous and impractical for 99% of users... in a lounge/bedroom fine, but not a desk, unless it's a huge one and you can sit far enough back. Nor has OLED actually been tested in a desktop environment, for those using their systems for 12-16+ hours a day, but that's a separate issue. Bottom line though, for gamers, when there's a circa 32" high refresh OLED available for a semi-sensible price, fantastic!! I don't actually foresee any burn-in issues arising for the most part in that scenario, but how about we actually have an applicable product on the horizon first eh?
 
bananadude said:
I think you'll find they are 400 nits and offer very little in respect to meaningful HDR
Click to expand...

So, to separate this out: you have video HDR, which demands something like 10,000 nits brightness for proper display, and then you have what you'd want to use on a desktop.

400 nits on the desktop is already too bright. For gaming, that's probably the limit.

With OLED, I'd be getting three things that I cannot get in any other display: a panel with super low persistence, a panel with essentially infinite contrast, and a panel with essentially perfect viewing angles.

I'd be absolutely happy with say a 32" / 1440p OLED, if burn in really weren't an issue for desktop work.
 
bananadude said:
No one is denying themselves anything... there ain't any desktop OLEDs available lol! 21" sure ain't it, and 55" is just ridiculous and impractical for 99% of users... in a lounge/bedroom fine, but not a desk, unless it's a huge one and you can sit far enough back. Nor has OLED actually been tested in a desktop environment, for those using their systems for 12-16+ hours a day, but that's a separate issue. Bottom line though, for gamers, when there's a circa 32" high refresh OLED available for a semi-sensible price, fantastic!! I don't actually foresee any burn-in issues arising for the most part in that scenario, but how about we actually have an applicable product on the horizon first eh?
Click to expand...

Lol wtf I was talking about people not wanting to buy OLED due to burn in scares, not because of "wrong size". I totally agree with OLED not being available in the right size. It's the burn in scares that I don't bother to argue with anymore. If you don't want an OLED because you don't have space for 55" display then alright fair enough, but if you don't want an OLED because you fear burn in then that's your lost.
 
bananadude said:
And what are the specs of these OLED panels in laptops... I think you'll find they are 400 nits and offer very little in respect to meaningful HDR, not what people will want in a larger (and very expensive) monitor anyway, and far from what TV's can provide. If this is the future of OLED monitors... well yeah, I'm sure we'll be OK with burn-in... but this ain't gonna cut it for most people. Or are you folks all suggesting that a 400-nit OLED monitor is actually all people will ever want and need?
Click to expand...
The quote below all day. You say that the reason we don't have burn in on these laptop displays is because of 400 nit peak brightness. You also keep saying that the real danger is when people use their screens for 12-16 hours each day for desktop work. And you're right, those hours do sound like a reasonable upper end on how long people work for in one stretch of time. You know what does NOT sound like a reasonable upper limit for how people work in one stretch of time? Any brightness over 400 nits. That's already really bright for most people. I like my displays nice and bright, and even I think 400 is beyond plenty. It can actually get uncomfortable after some time. The potential problem for burn-in is desktop use, but desktop use simply isn't going to get bright enough for it to be a problem.

HDR is another topic entirely, but you need to realize that the average professional office-workers you're talking about that work these 12-16 hour days don't watch HDR content on their monitors. The real reason Dell's Alienware doesn't have this feature (although it SHOULD since it's gamer focused) is because it's a monitor first and foremost. But suppose, for the sake of argument, that we do take HDR into consideration. It doesn't matter, because HDR doesn't stay at high brightness levels for extended periods of times. It needs a high range because it can keep peaking really high, but that'll be in separate areas of the screen and in really short intervals. HDR isn't a bun in concern, period
IdiotInCharge said:
So, to separate this out: you have video HDR, which demands something like 10,000 nits brightness for proper display, and then you have what you'd want to use on a desktop.

400 nits on the desktop is already too bright. For gaming, that's probably the limit.
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MistaSparkul said:
Lol wtf I was talking about people not wanting to buy OLED due to burn in scares, not because of "wrong size". I totally agree with OLED not being available in the right size. It's the burn in scares that I don't bother to argue with anymore. If you don't want an OLED because you don't have space for 55" display then alright fair enough, but if you don't want an OLED because you fear burn in then that's your lost.
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Indeed, for the vast majority of people, 55" is just too damn big... wouldn't matter if the Alienware was $1000, it would still be utterly impractical for the vast majority of people. And as mentioned, there's a very good reason Alienware made it this size, despite being well aware of that fact. They couldn't have made anything smaller even if they wanted to.

What people need, don't need, want and/or don't want can obviously be debated all day, and are very individualistic things... what can't be argued however is the lack of any reasonably sized, reasonably priced OLED monitor on the market... no panels are being discussed by manufacturers, no indication of excitement from them or eagerness to explore the technology, and obviously no product on the horizon... all discussion on the subject is entirely moot until one of these things changes. None of the existing OLED products on the market are any indication we'll see a 32" OLED desktop monitor in the foreseeable future... just as Dell's 30" OLED a couple years ago didn't usher in the golden age of OLED PC monitors. No one here knows what will happen in the future... it's 100% wishful thinking, hopes and dreams to think the monitor landscape won't still be proliferated with crappy LCD 5 years from now. Nothing wrong with hope, but I'd be prepared for a looooonnnnng wait...
 
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bananadude said:
Indeed, for the vast majority of people, 55" is just too damn big... wouldn't matter if the Alienware was $1000, it would still be utterly impractical for the vast majority of people. And as mentioned, there's a very good reason Alienware made it this size, despite being well aware of that fact. They couldn't have made anything smaller even if they wanted to.

What people NEED and WANT (or don't want) can obviously be debated all day, and are very individualistic things... what can't be argued however is the lack of any reasonably sized, reasonably priced OLED monitor on the market... no panels are being discussed by manufacturers, no indication of excitement about the technology in the monitor space, and obviously no product on the horizon... all discussion on the subject is entirely moot until one of these things changes. None of the existing OLED products on the market are any indication we'll see a 32" OLED desktop monitor in the foreseeable future... just as Dell's 30" OLED a couple years ago didn't usher in the golden age of OLED PC monitors. No one here knows what will happen in the future... it's 100% wishful thinking, hopes and dreams. Nothing wrong with that, but I'd be prepared for a looooonnnnng wait...
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Look, let's say there was a 32" OLED monitor that existed, maybe from JOLED or something, and it was reasonably priced. There are people out there who STILL would not buy it regardless because they fear the burn in boogeyman, and what's what I mean by it's their lost.
 
MistaSparkul said:
Look, let's say there was a 32" OLED monitor that existed, maybe from JOLED or something, and it was reasonably priced. There are people out there who STILL would not buy it regardless because they fear the burn in boogeyman, and what's what I mean by it's their lost.
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Yes, but it doesn't, and what's "reasonably priced"? Where does this reasonably priced 32" sit in the marketplace exactly? 'What if' scenarios could be played all day, and are irrelevant and meaningless. I think the burn-in issue would be quickly resolved once more people actually had monitors and used them... if no problems arose, then people would come round to it. But you can't deny it WILL be a problem for some, and you know how the internet works... most people will only talk about a product when it goes wrong, creating a very unbalanced picture... much as it is already with OLED TV's, but the dropping price there has won many round, so the same would be true of monitors. The problem is the monitor market is just too small with not enough sell through to get prices down sufficiently low... and I don't see that changing for many, many years, pretty much to the point where all LCD production has ceased.

It's far more likely we'll see the first 32" OLED (if we ever see them at all) come in at insane prices... and the consumer base for crazy expensive 32" OLED monitors is relatively small... I'm talking at least $6-7K (based on a 22" currently being $5K)... at that price point, most will simply pass anyway, rendering the burn-in issue entirely redundant. For those who CAN afford this, they simply won't care about burn-in.
 
bananadude said:
I'm talking at least $6-7K (based on a 22" currently being $5K)...
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You can't base any pricing on a low production prototype that only exists as a test of a production line. I could argue the opposite: The only consumer 30-inch class OLED that ever existed was the UP3017Q and it was only $3500 so the next 30-inch class should be under $3k. Of course, that's another super low production prototype so again the pricing means absolutely nothing.

Most likely JOLED is taking a loss or breaking even at best on those $5k panels and they don't care because the objective is to work out the issues so that they can build a line that can make 100x as much product at 1/10th the price.
 
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Sancus said:
You can't base any pricing on a low production prototype that only exists as a test of a production line. I could argue the opposite: The only consumer 30-inch class OLED that ever existed was the UP3017Q and it was only $3500 so the next 30-inch class should be under $3k. Of course, that's another super low production prototype so again the pricing means absolutely nothing.

Most likely JOLED is taking a loss or breaking even at best on those $5k panels and they don't care because the objective is to work out the issues so that they can build a line that can make 100x as much product at 1/10th the price.
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Well it's 100% speculation until a product or panel is announced... and even at the point we won't get a price. So it's wayyyyy too early to get excited about anything at this point. Only time will tell...
 
bananadude said:
Indeed, for the vast majority of people, 55" is just too damn big... wouldn't matter if the Alienware was $1000, it would still be utterly impractical for the vast majority of people. And as mentioned, there's a very good reason Alienware made it this size, despite being well aware of that fact. They couldn't have made anything smaller even if they wanted to.

What people need, don't need, want and/or don't want can obviously be debated all day, and are very individualistic things... what can't be argued however is the lack of any reasonably sized, reasonably priced OLED monitor on the market... no panels are being discussed by manufacturers, no indication of excitement from them or eagerness to explore the technology, and obviously no product on the horizon... all discussion on the subject is entirely moot until one of these things changes. None of the existing OLED products on the market are any indication we'll see a 32" OLED desktop monitor in the foreseeable future... just as Dell's 30" OLED a couple years ago didn't usher in the golden age of OLED PC monitors. No one here knows what will happen in the future... it's 100% wishful thinking, hopes and dreams to think the monitor landscape won't still be proliferated with crappy LCD 5 years from now. Nothing wrong with hope, but I'd be prepared for a looooonnnnng wait...
Click to expand...

The Dell 30" Oled was a flawed piece of shit. It had a fucked up 120hz strobe set over 60hz refresh rate, which annoyed my eyes and caused a doubling artifact in fast motion in games. It had like 33ms of input lag and zero VRR capabilities. I used that thing for less than a day before I sent it back to the mother ship.

If that 30" Dell OLED was 120hz it still would be sitting on my desk today. If it was 120hz + VRR I would not have needed another monitor for another 5-10 years.

The alienware 55, while MASSIVE, gives a lot more to work with since its 120hz, VRR and has nearly zero input latency. Yea its a big bitch, but you can make it work. I would rather have a "too big" problem than a "too small" problem....because there is nothing you can do with a 21" 4k OLED lol.

I have no ideas on the sale figures, but I assume they are not good for the alienware 55....and if they are not good, then the reason why its not selling is because:

(A) Price Point should be under $3,500
(B) the educated consumer is aware of the LG C9's HDMI 2.1 capabilities and is willing to wait.
(C) LG C9's 55" prices have fallen from $2500 to $1300
(D) Dell marketing did not emphasize the product differentiation from the C9 enough.
(E) Dell marketing sent test units to Cnet which was a huge fail because their cat lady reviewer tested it from a couch with a console in 60hz hdmi lmao.....and Linus the Tech Fairy who relagated it to a crawl space to be used by his kids for weird indy games.

To put it bluntly, the Alienware 55 OLED is a mans man display. Its that late 1980's Lamborgini with no ABS and no power steering, but its fucking AWESOME and should have been reviewed as such.
 
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l88bastard said:
The Dell 30" Oled was a flawed piece of shit. It had a fucked up 120hz strobe set over 60hz refresh rate, which annoyed my eyes and caused a doubling artifact in fast motion in games. It had like 33ms of input lag and zero VRR capabilities. I used that thing for less than a day before I sent it back to the mother ship.

The alienware 55, while MASSIVE, gives me a lot more to work with / love since its 120hz, VRR and has almost zero input latency. Yea its a big bitch, but you can make it work. I would rather have a "too big" problem than a "too small" problem.
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Yes it was flawed, but there's a reason that Dell, with all their financial clout, gave up after that.

It's obvious for production reasons why the Alienware 55" exists... until someone actually makes a panel at a smaller size, this is all we're going to get. There are no specific indications from JOLED what they will be doing exactly... it's all very vague at present, and there's going to be a long wait for actual product on shelves. There's also a chance this could all come to nothing.

Not everyone can make 55" work though, it's just a no-go for many people regardless of price... and for others considering it, soon (when VRR works over HDMI) the LG C9 could very well be the preference at a third the price. OK, you take the 60Hz hit for the time being, but we know HDMI 2.1 GPUs are on the horizon also, so the Alienware does have a brief time in the sun... most consumers are savvy to this and will wait. At its current price, it's going to be a lame duck of a monitor within a year. I'm sure that doesn't bother you or anyone else with a truck load of disposable income, but it all speaks to the state of OLED monitors (i.e lack thereof) in the grand scheme of things. We've got an awfully long way to go, and for the foreseeable future, OLED TV is really the only hope for the vast majority... 48" being as small as we KNOW we'll be getting, fingers crossed for smaller if that sells really well.
 
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bananadude said:
Yes it was flawed, but there's a reason that Dell, with all their financial clout, gave up after that.

It's obvious for production reasons why the Alienware 55" exists... until someone actually makes a panel at a smaller size, this is all we're going to get. There are no specific indications from JOLED what they will be doing exactly... it's all very vague at present, and there's going to be a long wait for actual product on shelves. There's also a chance this could all come to nothing.

Not everyone can make 55" work though, it's just a no-go for many people regardless of price... and for others considering it, soon (when VRR works over HDMI) the LG C9 could very well be the preference at a third the price. OK, you take the 60Hz hit for the time being, but we know HDMI 2.1 GPUs are on the horizon also, so the Alienware does have a brief time in the sun... most consumers are savvy to this and will wait. At its current price, it's going to be a lame duck of a monitor within a year. I'm sure that doesn't bother you or anyone else with a truck load of disposable income, but it all speaks to the state of OLED monitors (i.e lack thereof) in the grand scheme of things. We've got an awfully long way to go, and for the foreseeable future, OLED TV is really the only hope for the vast majority... 48" being as small as we KNOW we'll be getting, fingers crossed for smaller if that sells really well.
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32" - 36" 4k144VRR OLED would be an amazing product and sell very well at the right price point. I would even gratefully buy a 27" 1440pee 240hz OLED if they made one. Unfortunately, I think we are still at least two years away from any of that.

I think / hope Nvidia is going to offer HDMI 2.1 on Ampere, which would open up affordable LG OLEDs to gamers that want an alternative to tired LCDs while we all wait for more suitable PC consumer grade OLED monitors to arrive.

People are making a big deal over the AW55's lack of HDR over 400 nits. One thing I like about OLED is it literally makes everything feel like HDR given its amazing contrast. I had the Acer X27 and did not care for HDR1000 because it seared my eyeballs.....when I had the X27 I ran its HDR around 500 nits....so the AW55 comes close enough to my practical usage needs.

The problem I have with waiting for tech is......you will always be waiting then because there is always something better coming down the pike. Also, our next breath is never guaranteed....tomorrow may or may not come for us....so live your life today and do what makes you happy as long as your not hurting kids or animals, who gives a shit!
 
l88bastard said:
(E) Dell marketing sent test units to… Linus the Tech Fairy who relagated it to a crawl space to be used by his kids for weird indy games.
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Honest question: what more did you guys want him to do? The guy tried putting it on his moderately deep desk and looked like an absolute idiot to every single normal human being (including his wife who, assuming it wasn't scripted, thought he put a TV on his desk). It didn't work. He didn't like it enough to deal with it. The practical difficulties of that size outweighed everything else.

Surprise surprise.

It's awesome that you can make this work, really it is. I'm glad and envious that you can enjoy OLED right now. But most of us can't. Linus was one of the many people who couldn't. I think the only reason it went upstairs instead of into the living room is because bigger is still better for in there. Ironically, it's a bit too small for those settings.
 
Panel said:
Honest question: what more did you guys want him to do? The guy tried putting it on his moderately deep desk and looked like an absolute idiot to every single normal human being (including his wife who, assuming it wasn't scripted, thought he put a TV on his desk). It didn't work. He didn't like it enough to deal with it. The practical difficulties of that size outweighed everything else.

Surprise surprise.

It's awesome that you can make this work, really it is. I'm glad and envious that you can enjoy OLED right now. But most of us can't. Linus was one of the many people who couldn't. I think the only reason it went upstairs instead of into the living room is because bigger is still better for in there. Ironically, it's a bit too small for those settings.
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The AW55 should not be used in a living room, its not big enough.
I sit about 5-6 feet back from mine, I think that is the sweet spot.
If you sit farther back than 6' you start to lose the clarity / benefit of 4k on a 55" IMHO

Initially 5-6 feet feels too close, but you get use to the bigness in about a day or two.
It does not make me motion sick at all, which is funny because I got motion sickness
from my old 43" mango 4k120 setup all the time..heck I even got motion sickness from the Acer x27 from time to time....but this OLED beauty does not bother me at all!

Also, I don't use it for web surfing or productivity. I slide a 27" 4k144 Acer nitro two feet from my face for that.
When I want to game, I slide that out of the way and use the AW55 behind it.

How many people use dual size monitor setups like that? Not many I am sure...but I have been using setups like that since 3x1 portrait surround/eyefinity was a thing.

There is a good amount of people that used to rock 3x1 portrait surround setups and the AW55 should have been marketed to that segment...not the couch potatoes! The level of immersion with this thing is unreal, the bigness makes games larger than life like our old 3x1 setups did....but its so much better because there are no bezels, no multiple display inputs, no crazy driver issues....its just one displayport plug and play goodness!

I tried my best to NOT WANT to keep it due to its price. I failed lol.
 
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l88bastard said:
32" - 36" 4k144VRR OLED would be an amazing product and sell very well at the right price point. I would even gratefully buy a 27" 1440pee 240hz OLED if they made one. Unfortunately, I think we are still at least two years away from any of that.

I think / hope Nvidia is going to offer HDMI 2.1 on Ampere, which would open up affordable LG OLEDs to gamers that want an alternative to tired LCDs while we all wait for more suitable PC consumer grade OLED monitors to arrive.

People are making a big deal over the AW55's lack of HDR over 400 nits. One thing I like about OLED is it literally makes everything feel like HDR given its amazing contrast. I had the Acer X27 and did not care for HDR1000 because it seared my eyeballs.....when I had the X27 I ran its HDR around 500 nits....so the AW55 comes close enough to my practical usage needs.

The problem I have with waiting for tech is......you will always be waiting then because there is always something better coming down the pike. Also, our next breath is never guaranteed....tomorrow may or may not come for us....so live your life today and do what makes you happy as long as your not hurting kids or animals, who gives a shit!
Click to expand...


Of course, it would be a truly amazing product, but currently,. the only likely source for it in anywhere near a 2-year timeline is JOLED, and I'd say that's extremely hopeful. They're obviously sitll getting their factory up and running, with the intention of producing 220,000 units of 10 to 32-inch OLED screens per month, but who knows what their exact roadmap and timeline is. The logistics involved in an operation like that are immense to say the least! Never-mind the technical hurdles given no one has done this before. Before we even get in to cost discussion, we want to know they have an actual product that meets the criteria you describe. The only one I've seen mention of so far is a 22" eSports model... I'm sure that will be great for some people, but it's obviously not what most of us want.

Personally, I'm not waiting for OLED. I'm intrigued to see what the LG 48" brings to the table (and at what price), but outside of that, I'm just not expecting anything in a time-frame that affects me in the foreseeable future. As and when there's actual news about an actual monitor or panel, I will reassess.
 
Okay, the delivery date in my shop (Russia) has been moved to January 20 2020. Absolutely fucking amazing.
 
B&H already dropped the price by $200 on their pre-order. Date still shows Oct 29th for them, but it wouldn't surprise me if that changes again. I think I'm about to give up waiting as well, was really looking forward to this one but they must be having manufacturing problems or something if it keeps getting pushed back
 
Skott said:
I would say burn in is always a possibility, depending on the panel and how the user uses it, but its not as bad as it was when OLED first came out. The manufacturers have figured out ways to improve panels so they dont face burn in like they used to. If you want to use a OLED do so if not then dont fuss over it. My 2 cents on it.
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Some of the "improvements" fucking suck. I've seen LG image shifting, for example. It's horrible and abrupt. I always disable it.
 
bigbluefe said:
Some of the "improvements" fucking suck. I've seen LG image shifting, for example. It's horrible and abrupt. I always disable it.
Click to expand...
I think that falls in the category of tactics to prevent burn-in, like screensavers if a screen’s been stagnant for to long.

I believe what was meant by manufacturers improving burn-in resistance was how the panels themselves take longer and brighter images to burn-in. They’ve improved them at the lowest level. Everything else is just a tactic in top of that base level improvement.
 
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