ASUS TUF Gaming VG32VQ: World’s 1st display with concurrent motion blur reduction & Adaptive-Sync

Snowdog said:
Very interesting, but seemingly problematic. I have never read a review of such a panel before but I would bet there are two obvious problems.

Fluctuating brightness with variable frame-rates, and corresponding changes in backlight on time.

Flicker when frame rate falls below some uncomfortable threshold (varies by person, but about 75Hz from CRT days for me).

Others?
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Problems that can be solved though. Shorter flashes the faster the framerate, longer flashes the lower the frame rate. The perceived brightness would be the same. Once you hit something like 85hz it wouldn't even strobe.
 
I'm still trying to find the "VG27BQ" TN version to purchase. Strobe+VRR is quite a revolution and TN panels have the least amout of strobe cross-talk by far, so will be the one to get.
 
Vega said:
I'm still trying to find the "VG27BQ" TN version to purchase. Strobe+VRR is quite a revolution and TN panels have the least amout of strobe cross-talk by far, so will be the one to get.
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I would like to see how close the IPS comes before I pick between the two. They claim they both have a 1ms response time, but I doubt the IPS is as fast as the TN. And with strobing even a half ms can make a big difference.
 
TN is gonna have way less strobe-cross talk, trust me. The 1ms spec on the IPS version is already the MPRT strobe spec, so isn't indicative of the actual pixel speed. Heck, the LG IPS 1ms panels actually only do ~4.8ms G2G average.
 
Yes, but they don't show the entire vertical length of the monitor. In the tomshardware review the crosstalk looked worse in the top half of the image.
 
Well, I got my monitor today, and I'm sad to say that back it goes. You cannot adjust the overdrive on it, which is a damn shame. There are lots of visual artifacts in side-scrolling images, just like bigbluefe mentioned. My Samsung does not have this issue, and it's distracting as hell. Oh well... Here I thought I'd be getting a good replacement.
 
Yeah I guess I don't know how to "configure" a monitor with almost no options. Most people can't even tell when HDR is working or actually see 60fps+, so why should I be surprised?
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Well, I got my monitor today, and I'm sad to say that back it goes. You cannot adjust the overdrive on it, which is a damn shame. There are lots of visual artifacts in side-scrolling images, just like bigbluefe mentioned. My Samsung does not have this issue, and it's distracting as hell. Oh well... Here I thought I'd be getting a good replacement.
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So to clarify. There is a setting that lets you adjust the overdrive, but it's disabled when you activate ELMB. The manual actually doesn't mention this. TRACE FREE cannot be adjusted while ELMB is used. Very, very lame. So yes, it's going back. What a disappointment. Otherwise, the monitor's visual quality looks solid. 2560x1440 on 32 inches ain't too bad. I'm thinking that if I try to upgrade my current Sammy, I'll end up getting the 27 inch CHG-70. Anyways... What a shame.

EDIT: Why is it that monitor manufacturers go full retard and lock us out of certain setting adjustments when using ULMB or ELMB (whatever they want to call it)? I get that brightness takes a hit and all that what-not, but can't you leave it up to ME - the user - to determine what I want to look at?

Double-EDIT: I consider the state of this monitor right now, as a bust. Gaming monitor my ass. Until they fix the firmware to allow for "Trace Free" to be adjusted while using ELMB, there's no reason anyone should get this screen. I assume that Stryker7314 's sample has a decent overdrive setting with ELMB enabled, and probably has a better example of this screen.
 
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kalston said:
This looks terrible, have to adjust the overdrive manually depending on the framerates you're going to be getting? How is this a thing in 2019...

Crosstalk looks bad as well.
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A problem with pretty much every Freesync monitor. I think a gsync version would do better but yeah there isn't one. I'm willing to buy and test out the TN version myself.
 
MistaSparkul said:
VG27BQ now available on Amazon. Ordered mine.
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Ordered mine too. This will basically be the best FPS monitor in the world. TN + ELMB + VRR. I figure it's so darn cheap it would be a shame for me not to at least test it out.
 
sharknice said:
Let us know how it performs. I think I'm going to skip it and go with a 55" c9 now.
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Eh this monitor is totally different than the C9. The OLED is for that amazeballs image quality while the Asus is for the best motion clarity possible on an LCD. It's relatively affordable as well so why not both?
 
Well I can only game on one at a time lol.

I might get a 77" for the basement first and try it out with my pc to see if it's everything I want. If it isn't then I will get this lcd instead of the 55" oled. Gsync is a must have but I have a feeling I won't be able to give up the OLED picture quality even for ELMB.

If this would have came out before the gsync announcement I would have bought it.
 
sharknice said:
Well I can only game on one at a time lol.

I might get a 77" for the basement first and try it out with my pc to see if it's everything I want. If it isn't then I will get this lcd instead of the 55" oled. Gsync is a must have but I have a feeling I won't be able to give up the OLED picture quality even for ELMB.

If this would have came out before the gsync announcement I would have bought it.
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Until nvidia supports 120hz 4k + VRR + HDR concurrently off of a hdmi 2.1 output GPU I won't be gaming off pc hardware on a OLED TV (or a hdmi 2.1 samsung Q series tier FALD tv). The ~ $4000, SDR only 400nit color brightness ceiling capped (vs pc use burn in risk I'm assuming, rather than 600nit HDR ABL capped), non -hdmi 2.1 dell is out of the running for me too due to the size, price, and hardware limitations.

As it looks now we'll probably have the next generation of consoles (xbox and PS5) with I'm assuming hdmi 2.1 outputs in order to run their touted 120hz refresh rates on console quasi-4k resolution. perhaps in 2020, - well before nvidia gives us full hdmi 2.1 support gpus.

I'd much rather spend over $2000 (perhaps just over $3k even) on a hdmi 2.1, 70"+ TV for my living room than a half-measure pc monitor trying to stuff 120hz 4k 4:4:4 down a too narrow displayport 1.4 pipe and overcharging for that luxury of having displayport in order to work off of a gpu. . That is speaking of the latest generation of pc monitors as a whole .. the monitor of this thread is pretty cheap and is an oddity compared to the others. Personally I am not in the market for anything smaller than 32" - 43" at my deep desk or less than 3000:1 contrast ratio and accompanying black depth anymore but I still find this monitor's tech interesting. I'm replying more to the OLED TV as an alternative comments here.
 
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Did you guys get your monitors yet? Stop enjoying them for a minute and tell us how they are
 
Received mine late saturday night. Was busy on sunday so I didn't have any time to play with it but I'll start on it after work tonight.
 

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l88bastard said:
Every single time somebody gets a new display early, they NEVER have time to test it until the rest of us get ours lol
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When I got mine, I had to wait until my kids were in bed before I could break it out. So yeah, aint that the truth! :)
 
Ok people, sorry for the delay. Let's talk about the ELMB performance of the VG27BQ.

First off in order to get a point of comparison, here's the ELMB of the VG27AQ IPS Panel from TFTCentral:
blur_reduction.jpg

Now here's the VG27BQ:



I've also attached a photo of crosstalk areas of the VG27BQ from top to bottom. I'm quite the amateur at pursuit photo so please excuse the poor quality. As you can see, it's definitely better than the IPS panel as expected. However, I'm surprised that this newer panel with it's claimed faster response time of "0.4ms"vs older gen TN panels isn't delivering considerably better results. The worst portion of the monitor doesn't look any better than TN monitors with ULMB in the past, probably looks worst even. I'm also surprised by the fact that it's the lower part of the screen near the bottom that's the clearest and not the central area where your eyes would be most focused on. Maybe blurbusters will have a strobe utility tool for this monitor to adjust the strobe settings to make the center area more clear? Either way Asus should've tweaked it better from the factory to make the center look the best and not the bottom. Overall I can't say that I'm very impressed by the ELMB performance as it's just not any better compared to TN monitors I've tested in the past. As for the other big concern, which is brightness changes due to wildly fluctuating frame rates, I'm happy to say that the brightness does indeed remain consistant even if your frame rate is bouncing all over the place between 100 to 150fps which is where I imagine most people will be running this monitor at. Video showing the gsync pendulum demo running with ELMB fluctuating between 100-150fps shown below. The monitor can overclock to 165Hz but for me anything higher than 155Hz resulted in crazy flickering, although Asus does only advertise 155Hz on the box so anything higher than that YMMV, and I did connect the monitor using a displayport cable that I previously ran on my Dell S2417DG overclocked to 165Hz without issue so I don't think it's a bad cable that was causing the flickering. Of course in typical Asus fashion, my monitor came with a cluster of 3 dead pixels forming an L shape in the upper left area of my screen so back to Amazon it goes tomorrow :rolleyes:. One other thing: this monitor is not certified to be gsync compatible by nvidia, and maybe for good reason as I was having some issues with gsync. Playing games in borderless window the game was clearly not running any higher than 30fps but for some reason RTSS and in game fps counters was showing my games running at 150fps when they clearly weren't. This did not happen in exclusive fullscreen, only in borderless window. Fullscreen games ran as any other gsync capable monitor would. I'm not 100% sure if this is the monitor's fault though, but I have been using my Asus XG28Q 240Hz Gsync compatible monitor without any problems in borderless window. I'm really not sure if I want to bother ordering another one.

 

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Ugggghhh thanks for the review....very disappointing news on the BQ's crosstalk. Looks like mine is going back to Amazon before it arrives :-(

Update: Just got off chat with RentaZon and my BQ's "PRE-ORDER CANCELLED" has been successfully processed before it was supposed to be delivered tomorrow. Thanks Mr. Sparkful you saved me some unpacking / packing / return aggravation.
 
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jbltecnicspro said:
Hey Sony, care to start manufacturing the FW900 again?
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Lol we can't even get a major manufacturer to care about resizing existing mass produced TV tech - OLED - to PC monitor sizes, let alone doing it in a way that would be ideal for gaming(0 input lag, 240hz+ refresh rate, which the tech is absolutely capable of).
 
Sancus said:
Lol we can't even get a major manufacturer to care about resizing existing mass produced TV tech - OLED - to PC monitor sizes, let alone doing it in a way that would be ideal for gaming(0 input lag, 240hz+ refresh rate, which the tech is absolutely capable of).
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I know, I know. It ain't happening. Poopy...
 
Sancus said:
Lol we can't even get a major manufacturer to care about resizing existing mass produced TV tech - OLED - to PC monitor sizes, let alone doing it in a way that would be ideal for gaming(0 input lag, 240hz+ refresh rate, which the tech is absolutely capable of).
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Companies need to learn that we are not going to tolerate this garbage anymore. First step towards that is to not buy their trash. They refuse to move on from LCD tech because it costs them pennies to make and the massive infrastructure to make it is already in place.

If enough people stop buying the garbage and or enough people are unsatisfied and return it (like Mr. Sparkful & myself) then maybe....just maybe the display makers profit margins will begin to dip into the red and FORCE them to adapt to newer tech.

I want a 32-36" OLED 4k120+hz with BFI & VRR.....everything else can fuck right off!

I don't want any of that IPS/VA FALD bullshit, I don't care how many zones it has, its fucking trash because all LCD motion blur sucks balls....just look how pitiful the BQ's crosstalk is and that is as GOOD as LCD gets.....uuuuugggghhhhh..... And no I don't want to hear shit about OLED burn in. I don't give a rats ass about the burn in risk. I'm at the point where I would rather risk burn in and have to replace the panel every 2-3 years than deal with all the shitty drawbacks of LCD.
 
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I can understand your frustration with the display industry roadmaps/progress but there are some things to keep in mind regarding what our options are currently.


Sample and Hold Blur on All Modern Displays
---------------------------------------------------------------

You still get a ton of sample and hold blur on a OLED. You don't get the black smearing VA's suffer at higher fps+hz ranges on the worst transitions.

If you are running low frame rate graphs or using a display capped at 60fps because it is 60hz, your sample and hold blur moving the viewport in 1st/3rd person games is going to be smearing worse than any black trailing/smearing would because it affects the entire screen.

https://www.blurbusters.com/faq/oled-motion-blur/

The only way you get less sample and hold blur on modern displays is:
- use BFI or strobing which both have major trade-offs at their current rates in regard to universal VRR compatibility, PWM like effect at their rates, and lowered brightness (making colors muted and dim in SDR let alone HDR).
- or -
- using very high fps on a high hz monitor
- using advanced interpolation to increase lower frame rates to higher frame rates effectively (as far as S-and-H blur is concerned) on a high hz monitor


As you can see below, the limiting factor is how many frames you put into the Hz. Increasing the Hz ceiling without increasing the frame rates does nothing.
Getting sufficient frame rate ranges to get benefit from higher hz becomes a lot more difficult at 4k resolution even at "very high plus" or "ultra minus" settings.. and of course at even higher graphics and FX settings (e.g. mods going beyond the artificial caps put on whatever the current gen of games is).

Hopefully someday they will start making a really advanced interpolation to increase the framerate. Perhaps doubling or tripling it for now from 80fps to 160 or 240 average range .. or 100fps average to 200fps or 300fps average range.. In a far future gpu and 1000hz display ~ 100fps x 10 for 1000hz (or 125fps x 8)

There is some warping tech being used in VR to double the framerate currently , cutting the fps below a certain amount to 45, then doubling it to 90fps with a type of interpolation to maintain the blur reduction and motion smoothness vs. motion sickness.

https://www.blurbusters.com/blur-bu...000hz-displays-with-blurfree-sample-and-hold/
okw997S.png



HDR high dynamic range 3d color Gamut ~ color volume
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OLED TVs use ABL to cap the peaks at 600nit which means the whole scene drops to well below 600nit, even in what would otherwise have been a mostly 600nit scene outside of the peak light sources. SDR is around 350 - 400nit so OLED's overall scene isn't really doing much more, + 200 to 250nit of highlights including the peak sources and everything else tone mapped down. It's an improvement sure, but OLED will never be able to go into real HDR heights of HDR 1000, HDR 1400 - 1600, and HDR 4000 and 10,000 color volume that games, photos, and some movies and videos are capable of if they had the hardware to do it on (movies are mastered at HDR 10,000, uhd HDR discs vary currently between 1000, a bunch of 4000, and a select few 10,0000 like blade runner 2049). The Rtings burn in tests were made at 200nits on all except their CNN extreme torture test which was tested at 380nits. So none of them were torture tested at HDR color brightness levels. The Dell gaming OLED that they are supposed to make is reported to be 400nit cap with no HDR and I doubt this is a coincidence. Whether burn in matters to you or not (It does to many people spending over $2k on a tv or monitor), you are still shackled by the ABL cap either way in regard to HDR material.

So the Dell gaming display is a little too big at 48" and is basically a SDR display, and they will charge way too much for it. OLED tvs are something like "SDR+" rather than true "HDR" and due to burn in risk they probably won't ever be more than that. OLED tvs are also much too large at nearer than around 4' so are really only for distance setups. The newest LG OLEDs finally have hdmi 2.1 but gpus do not - so you are going to get baseline 60fps at 60hz (smearing) sample and hold blur of the entire game world during viewport movement, and worse if your frame rate graph ever goes below 60fps at 4k rez

lkFnvmB.png
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l88bastard said:
I want a 32-36" OLED 4k120+hz with BFI & VRR.
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I'd like a reasonably high priced but not extreme priced 43" one personally, or a high quality mini LED fald gaming one based on the pro art tech.. but 32" - 43" is doable at appropriate distances for me. It doesn't look like that is going to happen.

l88bastard said:
If enough people stop buying the garbage and or enough people are unsatisfied and return it (like Mr. Sparkful & myself) then maybe....just maybe the display makers profit margins will begin to dip into the red and FORCE them to adapt to newer tech.
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PC monitors are all overcharging for similar same-old tech just to add too narrow of a dp 1.4 pipe to a 4k monitor for 120hz since the hdmi roadmap is so screwed for pcs. Outside of things like the 1152 zone FALD HDR 1400 - 1600 nit color volume 120hz VRR pro art which won't even be out for a year and is likely $4000+tax, and the pg27uQ FALD which is still a very small for my tastes 27" diagonal and about 13" tall.. and has the dp 1.4 limitations while priced at up to $2000+tax.. At least that one is FALD HDR but otherwise most of these displays are pretty much the same but charging for displayport connection and overdrive on some ultrawides and larger tvs.

It might not hurt to vote with your pocketbook on these gaming monitors, but like I've been saying in other threads... it's possible that in 2020 people will be playing the next generation of xbox and/or the PS5 off of HDMI 2.1 on a HDMI 2.1 tv, using consoles' quasi 4k resolution with VRR with a 120hz capability. The ps5 is supposed to have something like a gtx 2080 gpu's power, plus the console optimizations and quasi 4k resolution tricks. It's really a same we are stuck in this middle ground of manufacturers peddling dp 1.4 at premium pricing for a bandwidth limited 4k 120hz on pcs with no flagship HDMI 2.1 HDR monitors due out and no HDMI 2.1 capable gpus whatsoever.
 
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Well the 2019 lg oleds did have bfi options that got removed before they shipped. With the gsync firmware update happening later this year it seems LG is aware of PC gamers.

I'm hopeful 2020 models will have their own version of ELMB with simultaneous bfi and vrr.

It may seem fast, but LG surprised everyone by having full HDMI 2.1 support in 2019 models.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Pretty sure ASUS failed miserably with this line of monitors. Hey Sony, care to start manufacturing the FW900 again?
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There are some serious rose colored nostalgia glasses when it comes to CRTs. I sure don't miss 100 nits max brightness, 300:1 contrast ratios, poor geometry, blurry analog connections, inherently blurry displays...
 
You must have used some crappy CRT's. A good one like the FW900 had around 15,000 contrast ratio. Yes poor brightness and no super sharp clarity, but the motion quality, my god was great.
 
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