2020 OLED monitor thread

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Lepardi

Limp Gawd
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Nov 8, 2017
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It looks like 2020-2024 will be the OLED revolution in monitor market. JOLED will be the first mass producer in 2020 and they have an e-sports monitor lineup planned.

In addition to JOLED and the chinese makers following it, AUO has also started building their own OLED printing line.

Ink-jet printing of OLED displays is finally ready to enter mass production in 2020. Production will begin at a rate of around 105,000 yearly substrates (209,000 sqm) in 2020, but will grow 12-fold within 4 years to reach 1.3 million yearly substrates in 2024 (or 7.3 million sqm).
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https://www.oled-info.com/ihs-ink-j...-mass-production-oled-production-process-2020

AUO will start constructing the line before the end of 2019. AUO's Chairman confirmed that the latest advances in printing materials and equipment are starting to make OLED printing viable for commercial use.
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https://www.oled-info.com/digitimes-auo-build-6-gen-ink-jet-printing-line
 
I fail to see any reason why future OLEDs won't potentially suffer with the same issues they currently do... especially with those who have their systems running all day, HUDs on screen for hours at a time etc.

I'd love to be proved wrong, as OLED no doubt looks amazing, but unless there's something they can do to mitigate the risks here, this just isn't going to work for anyone but casual PC users.

Also, an needless to say, these also need to incorporate 120Hz and VRR tech... getting such products affordable won't be easy unless they end up as tiny 24" panels.
 
bananadude said:
I fail to see any reason why future OLEDs won't potentially suffer with the same issues they currently do... especially with those who have their systems running all day, HUDs on screen for hours at a time etc.

I'd love to be proved wrong, as OLED no doubt looks amazing, but unless there's something they can do to mitigate the risks here, this just isn't going to work for anyone but casual PC users.

Also, an needless to say, these also need to incorporate 120Hz and VRR tech... getting such products affordable won't be easy unless they end up as tiny 24" panels.
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JOLED monitors are confirmed 144Hz. VRR doesnt really cost a thing nowadays, with freesync monitors working with G-SYNC.
 
bananadude said:
Doesn't mean the marketing machine won't kick in and add a whopping premium. Nor does it address the other potentially far more serious issues with OLED technology of course. Time will tell...
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In all fairness, if you calibrate the monitor to "reference" levels (so most CRT displays, when properly calibrated for a light-controlled environment, didn't usually go above 95 nits), you should be able to eliminate most of the issues with OLED - the biggest being burn-in.

I myself kept my CRT at 85 nits. I keep my LCD at about 100-ish nits and it's just fine.
 
bananadude said:
I fail to see any reason why future OLEDs won't potentially suffer with the same issues they currently do... especially with those who have their systems running all day, HUDs on screen for hours at a time etc.

I'd love to be proved wrong, as OLED no doubt looks amazing, but unless there's something they can do to mitigate the risks here, this just isn't going to work for anyone but casual PC users.
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They still will suffer burn in (and most likely always will).

So it's up to the user to decide if their usage pattern will work well with that weakness, and whether the combination of benefits, outweigh the costs/risks.

For me, on a TV, OLED is pure win, but on a computer monitor, I would be quite wary, because the Windows toolbar, and Web Browswer UI are on screen most of the time.
 
jbltecnicspro said:
In all fairness, if you calibrate the monitor to "reference" levels (so most CRT displays, when properly calibrated for a light-controlled environment, didn't usually go above 95 nits), you should be able to eliminate most of the issues with OLED - the biggest being burn-in.

I myself kept my CRT at 85 nits. I keep my LCD at about 100-ish nits and it's just fine.
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As Snowdog says, burn-in is still a risk given the use case of monitors and the fact there's no avoiding menus/HUDs being on screen for many hours at a time, unless you are using very casually. I'm at my PC with work and/or gaming for VERY long stretches... OLED just wouldn't sustain that long term.

Also, why would you limit the nits on your LCD monitor?
 
bananadude said:
Also, why would you limit the nits on your LCD monitor?
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Unless you're viewing HDR content, there's no point. 100 nits is plenty. And assuming that static contrast is well, static, then that means lower black levels too. My environment is pretty well light-controlled, so anything above 100 nits is too bright for it. :)

EDIT: I guess it's because my environment allows for it. Other environments won't, so it's obviously a matter of circumstance and preference.
 
Burn in could also be remedied simply by keeping the price high enough (like 1.5x, expecting that half of the monitors will get burn in within 2 years), and providing warranty replacements if you get burn in. That'd guarantee 4 years of safe use easily for most.
 
Lepardi said:
Burn in could also be remedied simply by keeping the price high enough (like 1.5x, expecting that half of the monitors will get burn in within 2 years), and providing warranty replacements if you get burn in. That'd guarantee 4 years of safe use easily for most.
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Well that would be nice, but wishful thinking I'd say, given how manufacturers current practice is to basically ignore any such complaints lol!
 
Been using my LG B7 for over 1.5 years now. No burn-in and I'm hardly a casual PC user. I've been working from home since December, so it sees about 8 hours of use during the day and then whatever browsing + gaming that I do in the evening.

I do take a few precautions. I set the Windows taskbar to auto-hide and move my windows around occasionally. Not a big deal but if you're going to have the same windows up in the same position for hours at a time, you might get some retention. Though the pixel orbiter / screen shift technology and the screen wipe function will help mitigate any permanent burn-in.
 
Lateralus said:
Been using my LG B7 for over 1.5 years now. No burn-in and I'm hardly a casual PC user. I've been working from home since December, so it sees about 8 hours of use during the day and then whatever browsing + gaming that I do in the evening.

I do take a few precautions. I set the Windows taskbar to auto-hide and move my windows around occasionally. Not a big deal but if you're going to have the same windows up in the same position for hours at a time, you might get some retention. Though the pixel orbiter / screen shift technology and the screen wipe function will help mitigate any permanent burn-in.
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Same. No burn in since 2017. I do run Pixel Refresh every 3-5 days. I've had panel replacement this summer and the LG guy that installed the new panel told me I didn't experience the burn in exactly because I conducted the Pixel Refresh procedure every other day. Otherwise, the LG OLED panel are prone to some severe burn-in.
 
Lateralus said:
Been using my LG B7 for over 1.5 years now. No burn-in and I'm hardly a casual PC user. I've been working from home since December, so it sees about 8 hours of use during the day and then whatever browsing + gaming that I do in the evening.

I do take a few precautions. I set the Windows taskbar to auto-hide and move my windows around occasionally. Not a big deal but if you're going to have the same windows up in the same position for hours at a time, you might get some retention. Though the pixel orbiter / screen shift technology and the screen wipe function will help mitigate any permanent burn-in.
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Consider me skeptical that you have it on for 8+ hours a day and have no burn-in. Hiding your task bar won't change the positon of toolbars in editing programs, tabs in your browser, HUD's in your games, etc.
 
Greyson said:
Consider me skeptical that you have it on for 8+ hours a day and have no burn-in. Hiding your task bar won't change the positon of toolbars in editing programs, tabs in your browser, HUD's in your games, etc.
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It's probably not noticeable unless you throw some full screen solid colors on. But yeah 8+ hours a day as desktop usage idk even I'm kinda skeptical about that.
 
Murzilka said:
Same. No burn in since 2017. I do run Pixel Refresh every 3-5 days. I've had panel replacement this summer and the LG guy that installed the new panel told me I didn't experience the burn in exactly because I conducted the Pixel Refresh procedure every other day. Otherwise, the LG OLED panel are prone to some severe burn-in.
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I don't think manually running the pixel refresh is a good idea and I think it could actually cause burn in to happen sooner. There was some other guy on this forum that ran it daily and had burn-in in less than a year.
 
LG: “There are two anti-image retention systems incorporated into LG OLED TVs, the short-term Pixel Refresher and the long-term Pixel Refresher.

The short-term Pixel Refresher automatically starts operating when the user turns off the TV, after viewing for more than four hours in total (in one session or across several). For example, if a user watched TV for two hours yesterday and three hours today (total of five hours), the Pixel Refresher would automatically run for 10 minutes when the TV is next switched off. The user won’t even be aware it’s in operation. If the TV is switched on before the 10-minute operation is complete, the short-term Pixel Refresher will attempt to run the next time the TV is turned off.

The long-term Pixel Refresher operates when the TV reaches an accumulated viewing time of more than 2,000 hours. At this point, when the user switches the TV off, a notification appears informing them that the Pixel Refresher will start. This operation runs for an hour while the TV is off. A white horizontal line displays onscreen when the process is almost finished. If users turn on the TV before the 1-hour operation has concluded, the TV will show a message that the Pixel Refresher has not been completed. This notification will display each time the TV is turned off, until the Pixel Refresher has run its full course. Additionally, users can manually activate the Pixel Refresher via the TV’s menu whenever they choose. However, it is not necessary for them to do so as LG OLED TV automatically runs the long-term Pixel Refresher each time 2,000 hours of viewing is reached.”
 
Vega said:
LG: “There are two anti-image retention systems incorporated into LG OLED TVs, the short-term Pixel Refresher and the long-term Pixel Refresher.

The short-term Pixel Refresher automatically starts operating when the user turns off the TV, after viewing for more than four hours in total (in one session or across several). For example, if a user watched TV for two hours yesterday and three hours today (total of five hours), the Pixel Refresher would automatically run for 10 minutes when the TV is next switched off. The user won’t even be aware it’s in operation. If the TV is switched on before the 10-minute operation is complete, the short-term Pixel Refresher will attempt to run the next time the TV is turned off.

The long-term Pixel Refresher operates when the TV reaches an accumulated viewing time of more than 2,000 hours. At this point, when the user switches the TV off, a notification appears informing them that the Pixel Refresher will start. This operation runs for an hour while the TV is off. A white horizontal line displays onscreen when the process is almost finished. If users turn on the TV before the 1-hour operation has concluded, the TV will show a message that the Pixel Refresher has not been completed. This notification will display each time the TV is turned off, until the Pixel Refresher has run its full course. Additionally, users can manually activate the Pixel Refresher via the TV’s menu whenever they choose. However, it is not necessary for them to do so as LG OLED TV automatically runs the long-term Pixel Refresher each time 2,000 hours of viewing is reached.”
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That's actually a pretty good solution that is non-intrusive too. LG has really upped their game when you also look how they have reduced input lag a lot etc.
 
Thanks for throwing that info up, Vega. I suspect many people don't know about the self-protective measures that LG built into these sets.

Greyson said:
Consider me skeptical that you have it on for 8+ hours a day and have no burn-in. Hiding your task bar won't change the positon of toolbars in editing programs, tabs in your browser, HUD's in your games, etc.
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No, but if you read my post you'd have seen that I move my application windows around every now and then in order to alleviate that. All it takes is shifting the window just a few pixels in any direction...static images are an OLED's nemesis as we all know, and what I'm doing might not even be necessary because of the pixel orbiter feature but I do it anyway and it's become second nature. The other BIG mistake that I avoid is running the OLED light setting at a high level (like it is out of the box). A high OLED light setting accelerates burn-in. Many people do not know this. I lowered mine from the default setting of 80/100 or whatever it was, to roughly 10/100 and it's still MORE than bright enough for daily usage. This is important and something that not many people are aware of.

As for HUDs, no issues there. I've posted on here before that I've done marathon gaming sessions with no issues. One weekend I played 8 or 9 hours straight of Mad Max when trying to power through the main story one weekend. I've also had multi-hour sessions of games like Arkham Knight and No Man's Sky with no issues afterwards.

If you play the SAME game every day, all day, for months on end like WoW addicts used to then maybe, potentially you'd have some retention.

MistaSparkul said:
It's probably not noticeable unless you throw some full screen solid colors on. But yeah 8+ hours a day as desktop usage idk even I'm kinda skeptical about that.
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I check semi-regularly with a full screen grey fill. It's the best way to check that I've found. I *have* seen some *temporary* image retention, which is completely normal, when I've gotten absorbed in what I'm working on and left a window in the same place for many hours. But that went away after my screensaver ran for a bit, as expected.

You guys can be skeptical. That's fine. Do you think I'm lying, despite multiple actual OLED owners agreeing with me in other threads that the burn-in fears are overblown? You can search, or I can link you to many posts stating this. It's not just me.

Or could it be one of several other possibilities?

One is that these panels might be more robust than you guys are assuming they are and can stand up to all but the most abusive of usage patterns?

Another could be that I'm more careful with my set than someone who runs windows in the same position (e.g. full screen) day after day at 100% brightness <-- a big no-no.

Yet another could be that I happened to get the only magical OLED panel that's not susceptible to burn-in no matter how I choose to use it...but I have less tendency to believe that and am more likely to believe #1 or #2.
 
Lateralus said:
You guys can be skeptical. That's fine. Do you think I'm lying, despite multiple actual OLED owners agreeing with me in other threads that the burn-in fears are overblown? You can search, or I can link you to many posts stating this. It's not just me.

Or could it be one of several other possibilities?

One is that these panels might be more robust than you guys are assuming they are and can stand up to all but the most abusive of usage patterns?

Another could be that I'm more careful with my set than someone who runs windows in the same position (e.g. full screen) day after day at 100% brightness <-- a big no-no.

Yet another could be that I happened to get the only magical OLED panel that's not susceptible to burn-in no matter how I choose to use it...but I have less tendency to believe that and am more likely to believe #1 or #2.
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It's not that anyone thinks you're lying (nor anyone else who says they have no burn-in using OLED), but it's extremely evident that it IS a risk and some people DO end up with it... sometimes severely. I would surmise that some panels are going to be far more susceptible to it than others, it really is that simple. Some people will get lucky, others will not, but burn-in DOES exist... to deny so would be absurd. Just because YOU have managed to avoid it, doesn't mean everyone else will, no matter what precautions they take. Calculating what the odds are is probably impossible, but it's precisely for this reason I see no future for the technology. MicroLED solves all of these problems once they get costs down (and it's not like OLED is cheap), so that's where the future is... and millions are being spent on R&D with that goal. OLED has been around nearly a decade and it's obvious while improvements have been made, it's NEVER going to trickle down to the affordable smaller size gaming monitors that we'd like to see.
 
Lateralus said:
All it takes is shifting the window just a few pixels in any direction...static images are an OLED's nemesis as we all know, and what I'm doing might not even be necessary because of the pixel orbiter feature but I do it anyway and it's become second nature.
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Pixel shifting, doesn't prevent burn in. It just blurs the sharp edges of burn in.

As for HUDs, no issues there. I've posted on here before that I've done marathon gaming sessions with no issues. One weekend I played 8 or 9 hours straight of Mad Max when trying to power through the main story one weekend. I've also had multi-hour sessions of games like Arkham Knight and No Man's Sky with no issues afterwards.
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Games typically are not the issue. It's Windows task bar, icons, Web browser UI. And it isn't 8 or nine hours that does real damage. It's several hours/day over hundreds of days.
 
bananadude said:
It's not that anyone thinks you're lying (nor anyone else who says they have no burn-in using OLED), but it's extremely evident that it IS a risk and some people DO end up with it... sometimes severely. I would surmise that some panels are going to be far more susceptible to it than others, it really is that simple. Some people will get lucky, others will not, but burn-in DOES exist... to deny so would be absurd. Just because YOU have managed to avoid it, doesn't mean everyone else will, no matter what precautions they take. Calculating what the odds are is probably impossible, but it's precisely for this reason I see no future for the technology. MicroLED solves all of these problems once they get costs down (and it's not like OLED is cheap), so that's where the future is... and millions are being spent on R&D with that goal. OLED has been around nearly a decade and it's obvious while improvements have been made, it's NEVER going to trickle down to the affordable smaller size gaming monitors that we'd like to see.
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Right. I don't think anyone is denying that it can happen or that it has happened to some people. And you're right, some panels are more susceptible to it than others. I do know that LG changed the pixel structure on their sets from year to year in order to help mitigate it (I'd have to look up the exact details on that, but the panels from 2016 weren't the same as the ones used in 2017, 2018, etc.).

I was merely responding to the posters who said that they were skeptical of my claims. Sure, some people have experienced burn-in. For sure! But it's not like I didn't know what I was getting myself into when I decided to use mine as a monitor, so by taking a series of precautions I have managed to avoid it so far. That's all I'm saying. Hopefully that information will be of help to others.

I agree that MicroLED looks extremely promising but with it being so far off, I was more than happy to take the plunge with OLED as a stop-gap. No one's saying it's the end-all solution for display tech, but it IS currently regarded as the best image quality that's widely available and after owning plasmas and LCDs for the past couple of decades I and others will attest to that. When MicroLED is here and affordable then I can upgrade to that, but I'm not compromising with LCD tech in the meantime. To me it's kind of like owning a Ferrari. You don't drive it around and get lax with the oil changes like you might with an Accord. It's more expensive and requires a little more care, but will provide a superior experience in return.

Snowdog said:
Pixel shifting, doesn't prevent burn in. It just blurs the sharp edges of burn in.
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Agreed. That's why I shift my windows around myself rather than relying on the pixel orbiter. The pixel refresher routines that Vega posted are there to take care of what the pixel orbiter doesn't or can't.

Snowdog said:
Games typically are not the issue. It's Windows task bar, icons, Web browser UI.
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Right, but I was addressing the poster that talked about game HUDs potentially causing issues. A game's HUD is no different than any other static content, whether that be the "TBS" logo on your favorite sitcom or a browser window or anything else. Many/most elements in a HUD don't change, so it can/does have the same potential to cause issues. I actually worry more about game HUDs than Windows content, since I don't have the ability to move it around. Sometimes I can turn it off, but that's not always a good solution depending on the game. Still, so far, no issues from HUDs or anything else.

Snowdog said:
And it isn't 8 or nine hours that does real damage. It's several hours/day over hundreds of days.
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That's why I made the following distinction:

"If you play the SAME game every day, all day, for months on end like WoW addicts used to then maybe, potentially you'd have some retention."
 
Looking forward to running OLED for gaming, if it burns in I'll buy another one. Does everything else better than current offerings.
 
Murzilka said:
Same. No burn in since 2017. I do run Pixel Refresh every 3-5 days. I've had panel replacement this summer and the LG guy that installed the new panel told me I didn't experience the burn in exactly because I conducted the Pixel Refresh procedure every other day. Otherwise, the LG OLED panel are prone to some severe burn-in.
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I don't believe the Pixel Refresher actually does anything to prevent (physical) burn in. In fact, the hour long pixel refresh probably exacerbates it. Here's the best explanation I've seen for what it actually does:

It doesn’t combat burn in. It has absolutely nothing to do with burn in despite the myths floating about.

The short refresh performed during stand-by every 4 hours of use, simply pulses voltages across the OLEDs to remove any image retention that may have happened during those last four hours, so the screen is clean next time you switch it on.

The hour long refresh that can be done manually (or runs automatically every 2000 hours), recalibrate’s the brightness of your panel back to its optimum by measuring voltages and effectively “burning down” ones that are unusually high, to get an even field across the panel - it can then up the voltage back to full brightness without danger of blowing up the ones that were high. It does this in vertical batches, which is what causes the banding, and why the bands ‘move’ overtime. It is the most dangerous thing (to picture quality) the panel does, as it can be influenced by many outside factors such as room temperature or power cuts, but is a necessary evil as otherwise, over months the panel would just get dimmer and dimmer. It also shortens the lifespan of the panel. This is why you should not be using this function repeatedly, and why Sony officially recommends it only be used once per year.
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Indeed, if you understand some basic facts about how OLED works, it should be obvious that nothing will reverse burn in. If the display is on and the emitters are producing light, those emitters are aging. The more light, the faster they're aging. That's an irreversible process, and all LG or anyone else can do is to mask it by employing a compensation algorithm as described above. That doesn't work forever though, and is why burn in eventually does show up on displays that show static or semi-static content for prolonged periods of time.
 
Yeah. If he's talking about the manual "Screen Wipe" utility that's available in the menu, I definitely wouldn't be running that every 3-5 days. It's meant to get rid of burn-in that persists despite the other protections, and it's always been my understanding that it's not something meant for regular use. I've never actually run it...no need to so far.
 
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Necere said:
I don't believe the Pixel Refresher actually does anything to prevent (physical) burn in. In fact, the hour long pixel refresh probably exacerbates it. Here's the best explanation I've seen for what it actually does:



Indeed, if you understand some basic facts about how OLED works, it should be obvious that nothing will reverse burn in. If the display is on and the emitters are producing light, those emitters are aging. The more light, the faster they're aging. That's an irreversible process, and all LG or anyone else can do is to mask it by employing a compensation algorithm as described above. That doesn't work forever though, and is why burn in eventually does show up on displays that show static or semi-static content for prolonged periods of time.
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You tell me more about my OLED display. Like I said - there is no burn in on my 55" OLED TV display since 2017. I leave desktop on for hours without screen saver and treat it like a normal PC monitor (apart from running the Pixel Refresher procedure). I do see image retention after running Prime95 for 12+ hours, but it goes away seamlessly. But I have never seen any kind of image retention after playing a game in form of GUI or menus, and I'm still able to play for many hours, hence my interest in PC. So my opinion (based on 2 years of almost daily use of the 55" LG OLED) is that the OLED burn-in issue is definitely over exaggerated.
I must add that I can see image retention on the new 2019 panel from running Prime95, while on the older 2017 panel - there was no image retention even in extreme cases. Like running Prime95 for more than 12 hours. Probably right after the test, running dpt.exe and specifically checking different colors and tones I would be able to notice slight halos from where the windows were positioned, but In normal use I would never tell there is any kind of burn in. The new panel is definitely more sensitive to it. Again, I am talking about the OLED being on for more than 12 hours with static windows.
Talking about permanent burn in - there is none.
 
Well hey if you have no burn in then all after that kinda usage then awesome. I'm a B7 owner myself so that's great news to hear :)
 
Murzilka said:
You tell me more about my OLED display. Like I said - there is no burn in on my 55" OLED TV display since 2017. I leave desktop on for hours without screen saver and treat it like a normal PC monitor (apart from running the Pixel Refresher procedure). I do see image retention after running Prime95 for 12+ hours, but it goes away seamlessly. But I have never seen any kind of image retention after playing a game in form of GUI or menus, and I'm still able to play for many hours, hence my interest in PC. So my opinion (based on 2 years of almost daily use of the 55" LG OLED) is that the OLED burn-in issue is definitely over exaggerated.
I must add that I can see image retention on the new 2019 panel from running Prime95, while on the older 2017 panel - there was no image retention even in extreme cases. Like running Prime95 for more than 12 hours. Probably right after the test, running dpt.exe and specifically checking different colors and tones I would be able to notice slight halos from where the windows were positioned, but In normal use I would never tell there is any kind of burn in. The new panel is definitely more sensitive to it. Again, I am talking about the OLED being on for more than 12 hours with static windows.
Talking about permanent burn in - there is none.
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Thank you.

You and I aren't the only ones. There are several of us using these for monitors/games.

Like Stryker said above, I'd buy another one tomorrow if mine develops any issues. It's that good. And I absolutely plan on getting one of the new ones with 120Hz @ 4K + VRR!
 
I think for normal gaming + movie watching OLED burn-in won't be an issue for PC use, even with the taskbar present you would need to go to extremes to get burn-in. Monitor on 24/7 with no sleep modes, max brightness, etc. Rtings has a good read up and video on what they've seen on OLED tv's. I'm just waiting for something in the 32" size to come out.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/real-life-oled-burn-in-test
 
Murzilka said:
You tell me more about my OLED display. Like I said - there is no burn in on my 55" OLED TV display since 2017. I leave desktop on for hours without screen saver and treat it like a normal PC monitor (apart from running the Pixel Refresher procedure). I do see image retention after running Prime95 for 12+ hours, but it goes away seamlessly. But I have never seen any kind of image retention after playing a game in form of GUI or menus, and I'm still able to play for many hours, hence my interest in PC. So my opinion (based on 2 years of almost daily use of the 55" LG OLED) is that the OLED burn-in issue is definitely over exaggerated.
I must add that I can see image retention on the new 2019 panel from running Prime95, while on the older 2017 panel - there was no image retention even in extreme cases. Like running Prime95 for more than 12 hours. Probably right after the test, running dpt.exe and specifically checking different colors and tones I would be able to notice slight halos from where the windows were positioned, but In normal use I would never tell there is any kind of burn in. The new panel is definitely more sensitive to it. Again, I am talking about the OLED being on for more than 12 hours with static windows.
Talking about permanent burn in - there is none.
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Setting the light level to 10 is giving your oled 10x longer life before burn in.
But running the pixel refresher is actually reducing the life and increasing your chances of getting burn in. I would just let it do it's thing automatically unless you're seeing image retention.
 
I have a 55" C6 Curved as my main PC display since 2016 and its been rock solid no burn in use it every day as mixed PC office work and gaming on my PC and Xbox/PS4. Left it on for 4 days on a static screen by accident and ran pixel refresh and no burn in. I also own a 65" E7 in my Living Room, a 55" E7 in my bedroom and just got a 77" C8 for my basement. Love OLED and wouldnt ever bother with some crap FALD equally expensive LCD TV. I'll wait for microLCD or whatever Samsung eventually releases to see if its worth upgrading from OLED. Right now I'm super happy with all my OLED's and never had an issue with burn in. But I was a big Plasma guy and never did the "watch Fox or CNN 24 hours a day" bullshit that some people seem to do and have half a brain to avoid doing things that would cause burn in.

Just saw Dell announced their pricing for their 55" "Gaming" OLED @ $4000. I mean the display port and official Freesync is nice but I'd still just spend $1500 or less on a C9 55" and have $2000+ to build a killer PC.
 
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I mean it's important to remember that not all static elements cause noticeable burn-in. The rtings test has been running over 10K hours of Fifa 18 which has a static UI, and while there are some tiny, difficult to see uniformity issues, unless you LITERALLY only use the exact same application for all over those 10K hours, I don't think you would ever see this in the home. And the COD one hasn't developed any issues at all in 10k hours.

It's only bright red and to a lesser extent green elements that pose any real danger.
 
Murzilka said:
You tell me more about my OLED display. Like I said - there is no burn in on my 55" OLED TV display since 2017. I leave desktop on for hours without screen saver and treat it like a normal PC monitor (apart from running the Pixel Refresher procedure). I do see image retention after running Prime95 for 12+ hours, but it goes away seamlessly. But I have never seen any kind of image retention after playing a game in form of GUI or menus, and I'm still able to play for many hours, hence my interest in PC. So my opinion (based on 2 years of almost daily use of the 55" LG OLED) is that the OLED burn-in issue is definitely over exaggerated.
I must add that I can see image retention on the new 2019 panel from running Prime95, while on the older 2017 panel - there was no image retention even in extreme cases. Like running Prime95 for more than 12 hours. Probably right after the test, running dpt.exe and specifically checking different colors and tones I would be able to notice slight halos from where the windows were positioned, but In normal use I would never tell there is any kind of burn in. The new panel is definitely more sensitive to it. Again, I am talking about the OLED being on for more than 12 hours with static windows.
Talking about permanent burn in - there is none.
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Heh, people get defensive about this stuff. I'm not trying invalidate your experience, and I'm certainly not calling you a liar. I believe you when you say your set has no visible burn in. But all that really means is you haven't used it in a way that exceeds its ability to mask any burn in that may have accumulated. Just because your car might be running fine at 150k miles doesn't mean there isn't some wear and tear under the hood, right? Stuff wears out - OLED is no different.

Also, it's important to make a distinction here between image retention and burn in, which are two totally different things that have nothing to do with each other. As I understand it, image retention is caused by voltage retention in the backplane, and even LCDs can suffer from it (my IPS panel does in warm weather). It can and should go away after a short time.

In contrast, burn in is the result of the OLED emitters themselves physically wearing out - that is, they aren't able to produce as many photons at a given voltage. LG TVs can compensate for this by adjusting the voltage on emitters that are more worn out, but if those emitters continue to be driven harder (i.e. displaying static content), they eventually exceed the ability of the set to compensate for it. That's when you'll start to see visible burn in (though it has been happening all along - you just couldn't see it thanks to the compensation masking it).
 
Sancus said:
I mean it's important to remember that not all static elements cause noticeable burn-in. The rtings test has been running over 10K hours of Fifa 18 which has a static UI, and while there are some tiny, difficult to see uniformity issues, unless you LITERALLY only use the exact same application for all over those 10K hours, I don't think you would ever see this in the home. And the COD one hasn't developed any issues at all in 10k hours.

It's only bright red and to a lesser extent green elements that pose any real danger.
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It's not that some static content doesn't cause burn in, but that the rate of burn in is lower or higher for different colors, owing to the differences in light transmission of the color filters on LG TVs and the individual subpixel sizes. Remember that LG uses only white OLED emitters; colors are produced using color filters, and so to produce pure red for example requires throwing out roughly 2/3rds of the light produced by that emitter. But because they also have a white subpixel that lacks a color filter, white is much easier to drive than bright, saturated colors are, and as a consequence it will take much longer for white/gray (or moderately saturated color) static content to burn compared to highly saturated colors.

But make no mistake, over a long enough period of time, virtually any static content will cause burn in. For something like a dim gray it logo it might take 100k hours though (just an arbitrary number, not based in anything), so probably not something worth worrying about.
 
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Necere said:
Heh, people get defensive about this stuff. I'm not trying invalidate your experience, and I'm certainly not calling you a liar. I believe you when you say your set has no visible burn in. But all that really means is you haven't used it in a way that exceeds its ability to mask any burn in that may have accumulated. Just because your car might be running fine at 150k miles doesn't mean there isn't some wear and tear under the hood, right? Stuff wears out - OLED is no different.

Also, it's important to make a distinction here between image retention and burn in, which are two totally different things that have nothing to do with each other. As I understand it, image retention is caused by voltage retention in the backplane, and even LCDs can suffer from it (my IPS panel does in warm weather). It can and should go away after a short time.

In contrast, burn in is the result of the OLED emitters themselves physically wearing out - that is, they aren't able to produce as many photons at a given voltage. LG TVs can compensate for this by adjusting the voltage on emitters that are more worn out, but if those emitters continue to be driven harder (i.e. displaying static content), they eventually exceed the ability of the set to compensate for it. That's when you'll start to see visible burn in (though it has been happening all along - you just couldn't see it thanks to the compensation masking it).
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Correct on all fronts, and I appreciate the clarification on your viewpoint.

Somewhat anecdotal but relevant: I'm sure you remember when plasma TVs became affordable for the masses and there was a lot of discussion on the internet about burn-in and the effective lifespans of the sets as the gas and phosphors in the cells age and deteriorate. Turns out, for most people, it was a non-concern:

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As we can see, the manufacturers improved the technology to the point where lifespan and wasn't an issue for most applications. I suspect that we're on a similar road with OLED, but even current sets shouldn't cause concern for most people, as Rtings notes.
 
Lateralus said:
As we can see, the manufacturers improved the technology to the point where lifespan and wasn't an issue for most applications. I suspect that we're on a similar road with OLED, but even current sets shouldn't cause concern for most people, as Rtings notes.
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I agree, though I'd still be cautious about specific kinds of static content with the current generation sets. Any brightly colored logos/HUDs displayed for prolonged periods of time is asking for problems. As new developments come to OLED - top emission, TADF, better materials, maybe QD-OLED - we should see lifetime improve to the point where even these corner cases shouldn't be cause for concern.
 
Necere said:
But make no mistake, over a long enough period of time, virtually any static content will cause burn in. For something like a dim gray it logo it might take 100k hours though (just an arbitrary number, not based in anything), so probably not something worth worrying about.
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Yes, I understand the mechanism, but 'will take >10K hours of unvaried run time' and 'doesnt actually burn-in' are equivalent for all practical purposes as far as I'm concerned.
 
I'd argue the problem is less burn-in and actual suitability at the sizes OLED is available in... 55" is just wayyyy too big for most desktop scenarios, unless you're sat well back. It's really only viable in lounge gaming set-ups currently. Even LG's upcoming 48" OLED only halfway solves the problem, with a 91 PPI which is worse than a 32" 1440p monitor... so again, viewing distance comes in to play massively if you want that 4K sharpness.

And of course, we also have the lack of HDMI 2.1 on GPUs to take advantage of anything more than 60Hz... by the time we get such GPUs, better OLEDs and monitors should be available.

All in all, we live in very frustrating times. :grumpy:
 
I was looking at the z9 88 inch 8k and it isn't wall mountable. Wtf?

Anyone know when the 65" 8k oleds will be available? I thought they announced they were coming 2019 but I can't find anything.
 
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