DoorDash Says It’s Very Sorry You Noticed Its Tip-Skimming Scheme

Only sorry that it was finally understood that it was a contracted legally binding form of theft from the pockets of their drivers.

Alas, the drivers are also responsible for understanding how the practice worked and accepting it by signing the employment contract.
 
between deez goons and insta cart, doing the same thieving shit, I don't understand why its so hard for them to just let the drivers have a tip, or why the drivers just don't deliver for someone else and let the companies change or disappear.
 
same way tips works for dominoes btw

you tip foremost goes to reduce the the ocmpaneys pay of you minimal way
They reduce you pay all the way down to 4.70 an hour if you get enough tips to still keep you above minmal wage
This also means that not tipin means the time the driver just used to deliver you pizza is now being substracted from previous tips. so the driver just lost money out of his surplus tip.


That why i always tip in cash so the driver can keep it and give the finger to corporate greed

Company stealing your tips is sadly a common thing in US
 
Doesn't door dash also have you pay the "tip" when you order before it's delivered?
 
DejaWiz said:
Only sorry that it was finally understood that it was a contracted legally binding form of theft from the pockets of their drivers.

Alas, the drivers are also responsible for understanding how the practice worked and accepting it by signing the employment contract.
Click to expand...

Wage theft is a huge problem, atop of all the other issues relating to worker treatment and fair pay, happening at all strata - from day labor and farm workers right up to skilled white-collar businesses such as tech/game development "crunch" and other forms of expected, non-compensatory overtime. It is exactly zero surprise that another "disruptive" app developer acts this way, as Uber and others have consistently exploited semantic differences in law language among other elements to avoid costs normally associated with their "real" industry (ride hiring taxi, hotel/inn ownership, delivery/courier etc). Stealing from your drivers by use of a tip-skimming algorithm is just another level of repugnance on the "sharing economy", and them using some sort of employment agreement TOS full of legalese and then claim "but you knew what you were signing up for!" is not acceptable. This is a contract work app, they know that many of the people driving for them don't have the money (or knowledge/awareness etc) to take the thing to their business attorney prior to signing up, like it was some contract for C-level executive hire where attorneys for both sides fight over the definition of "will be".... nor should it be necessary!

This issue only highlights the massive changes in legislation necessary to make fair work, compensation, and quality of life (among many related elements) possible for the many.
 
illaghee said:
between deez goons and insta cart, doing the same thieving shit, I don't understand why its so hard for them to just let the drivers have a tip, or why the drivers just don't deliver for someone else and let the companies change or disappear.
Click to expand...

I can only speak from experince with deliverers for domnies but tips stealing make up of around alf of what you are paying your drivers.
So when a company can lower their out of pocket cost to your pay all the way down to 4.7bucks an hours They go for it
 
RanceJustice said:
This issue only highlights the massive changes in legislation necessary to make fair work, compensation, and quality of life (among many related elements) possible for the many.
Click to expand...

Well know you are just being a communist -most of America...probably

When your country is only measuring itself on its corporate income then this is what you get.
 
SvenBent said:
Well know you are just being a communist -most of America...probably

When your country is only measuring itself on its corporate income then this is what you get.
Click to expand...

Yet the US is near the top for average wage and median household income according to OECD and every other list. Unemployment is at an all time low, especially for super low end jobs like that. There are no excuses for continuing to work at a place that does that when you can find another job the next day.
 
next day nothing, the NEXT app! all these gig jobs, with in mins you can be delivering for some other goon until he wrongs you too...
 
sharknice said:
Yet the US is near the top for average wage and median household income according to OECD and every other list. Unemployment is at an all time low, especially for super low end jobs like that. There are no excuses for continuing to work at a place that does that when you can find another job the next day.
Click to expand...

Average is a poor man analyst tool

a gpu running half the time at 10 fps and half the time as 200fps aveages at 105 fps but ist still much worse than a card that runs 100fps constantly
Try looking at median values instead
lowest 1%
lowest 99%
etc etc


also average wage means nothing when not taking cost into consideration

all in all you comparisons is very very not telling
 
SvenBent said:
Average is a poor man analyst tool

a gpu running half the time at 10 fps and half the time as 200fps aveages at 105 fps but ist still much worse than a card that runs 100fps constantly
Try looking at median values instead
lowest 1%
lowest 99%
etc etc


also average wage means nothing when not taking cost into consideration

all in all you comparisons is very very not telling
Click to expand...

I also said median 3 words later...... and the US is up at the top for PPP and every other meaningful metric.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Ignoring the facts doesn't change them.
 
sharknice said:
I also said median 3 words later...... and the US is up at the top for PPP and every other meaningful metric.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Ignoring the facts doesn't change them.
Click to expand...

I did indeed missed the median part

What you are linking til her are not income though but its GDP which does not tell about the standing of john doe but just how much trade was done
One big part of GDP analysis is seeing how much is domestic and how much is international a country can do better with less GDP if if a majority is coming from export rather than a country with higher gdp where its all domestic. because export move wealth into the country instead of just around in the country/

So GDP is not in any shape a measurement of you you population is doing. but its often quote by politics and the "big media"
 
I had a feeling this was going on, so I tried a solution which I felt might result in both happy drivers and no snot-rockets in my food.
Nominal tip on the bill officially (avoid snot rockets), then a much larger actual cash tip at the door (actually make driver happy).

It's gone well. I don't know how much say individual drivers have in jobs, but we seem to get the same person every time now. And oddly enough, my son offers to get the door every time when he knows we're ordering. Weird, for someone who wants to avoid being asked to do anything.

In what I assume is complete coincidence, our delivery person just happens to be a very attractive young woman. I also assume my son gazing out the window is just his way of making sure she gets to her car safely. Noble.
 
All these delivery/ uber things are a scam. Most of the time the drivers are working for less than minimum, that is not even considering the depreciation on their car. I don't get it, but the people i have met seem to like working for these companies.
 
I used Door Dash once. Wife and kid were starving and I was at work so they ordered.

Food NEVER showed up. They said the driver had trouble getting into our community (after I called them numerous times)

Initially they offered me a credit and I told them. "What good is a credit when I will never ever ever never ever use your service again" I finally received my refund.
 
filip said:
All these delivery/ uber things are a scam. Most of the time the drivers are working for less than minimum, that is not even considering the depreciation on their car. I don't get it, but the people i have met seem to like working for these companies.
Click to expand...

I have wondered if it’s because it’s one of the few non-skilled jobs that you can her the freedom of really choosing when you work.
 
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SvenBent said:
I did indeed missed the median part

What you are linking til her are not income though but its GDP which does not tell about the standing of john doe but just how much trade was done
One big part of GDP analysis is seeing how much is domestic and how much is international a country can do better with less GDP if if a majority is coming from export rather than a country with higher gdp where its all domestic. because export move wealth into the country instead of just around in the country/

So GDP is not in any shape a measurement of you you population is doing. but its often quote by politics and the "big media"
Click to expand...
Do you not have access to google? Regardless of which set of statistics you choose to trust, the US median income for adults is easily in the top 10 world-wide, and usually in the top 5. Since you seem very focused on links: here's a nice, easy to understand, wikipedia page for you - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income.

Can we move on with the discussion of door dash yet?
 
I hope someone does a follow up on Uber Lyft and a bunch of the other disruption services. Gotta keep me honest.
 
PhaseNoise said:
I had a feeling this was going on, so I tried a solution which I felt might result in both happy drivers and no snot-rockets in my food.
Nominal tip on the bill officially (avoid snot rockets), then a much larger actual cash tip at the door (actually make driver happy).

It's gone well. I don't know how much say individual drivers have in jobs, but we seem to get the same person every time now. And oddly enough, my son offers to get the door every time when he knows we're ordering. Weird, for someone who wants to avoid being asked to do anything.

In what I assume is complete coincidence, our delivery person just happens to be a very attractive young woman. I also assume my son gazing out the window is just his way of making sure she gets to her car safely. Noble.
Click to expand...

Tipping before service just seems wrong to me. It's like paying a ransom for your food.
 
Without getting into some of the other, larger discussions on the economy, tipping as a formal system has always been detrimental to workers. Besides enabling wage theft of all kinds, it has been used to justify payment significantly below what would be the minimum wage (which is all too low itself but I digress) legally, a process that grew out of some...lets say less than complimentary historical precedents. This is on top of requiring the patron to pay an additional expected surcharge, sometimes in advance, and can be unfair to both the worker and customer (ie workers shouldn't have to worry that despite their competence they may simply not get a tip for one reason or another, customers shouldn't have to worry that the quality of their food/service currently or in the future is dependent on that tip instead of the cost itself) . This is to say nothing for the negative social connotations that widespread tipping incentivizes - the worst sort of "the customer is always right" nonsense, with harassment and abuse are often endured with a smile knowing that NOT doing so means the tips they depend upon (even after being split, skimmed etc..) will be endangered.

Other nations have a much more restricted tipping culture and their workers and customers are both better off for it, when there are other sane policies guiding the way. We should move to that kind of system. It is even more egregious that, despite these "disruptive" apps claiming to "just be connecting people", there are offered layered fees atop the standard price (ie delivery fee, rush fee etc) plus the expectation of a tip - which the apps themselves hawk as the only real payment for the driver - only to have a good percentage or all of it go back to the business! There's no reason to allow this to continue and we should work to outmode tipping as a major, essentially feature of many professions
 
While unemployment is low, the % of adults actually having or looking for work is STILL recovering from the recession of 2008.

https://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet

Select from years 1990 to 2019 and you'll see what I mean. If all those millions of people were actually considered in the job market, I wonder what the unemployment numbers would look like. I'm honestly curious what it would look like. Would ALL the jobs be filled and the rest spill over into loads of unemployment? I don't know.
 
filip said:
All these delivery/ uber things are a scam. Most of the time the drivers are working for less than minimum, that is not even considering the depreciation on their car. I don't get it, but the people i have met seem to like working for these companies.
Click to expand...


i wouldn't call them a scam per say, but i think people have a false idea how much money actual taxi drivers really make(it's not much more than what uber/lyft drivers make and they work way more hours). that being said though i'll never tip a driver through uber/lyfts apps, i always give them cash. hell i won't even get pizza delivered unless i have cash to give the driver for a tip, have zero trust in companies actually making sure the employee(s) get their tips on top of their wages.
 
sharknice said:
Tipping before service just seems wrong to me. It's like paying a ransom for your food.
Click to expand...
I feel the same way and, in my lifetime, the practice of tipping is always after. Ironically, TIP is supposedly an acronym meaning To Insure Performance which implies it should be given before.

These companies stealing tips are just disgusting.

-Mike
 
Another side effect of tip theft is it really suppresses the effectiveness of the tip. The tip is given because the customer is happy with the service and the service provider appreciates the reward. This can be readily seen in transactions that don't normally have tips (thus not having tip stealing mechanisms in place).

For example, there was a tire shop I frequented for tires for my track car. During a busy season, I was buying 4 sets of tires a year. The store had a deal of $40 to mount 4 track tires on track wheels - part of that deal was no worries if they scratched the wheels and the wheels had to be loose - a very good deal for the weekend track guy. The regular rate for mounting 4 tires was $64. What worked really well was to take the $40 deal and then go out on the shop floor to the guy actually mounting the tires and give him a twenty. Do that a couple of times and I swear they were tempted to drop another customer's car off the lift when you showed up the next time. The guys on the floor really appreciated it, I never waited very long, no wheel damage, and I never had bad mount. Management like it because it caused me to buy the tires at the store. The cliche "win-win" comes to mind.

The bottom line is tipping works if the management doesn't steal it.

-Mike
 
DejaWiz said:
Only sorry that it was finally understood that it was a contracted legally binding form of theft from the pockets of their drivers.

Alas, the drivers are also responsible for understanding how the practice worked and accepting it by signing the employment contract.
Click to expand...


Actually, if the company "enlisted it's employees" into the scheme, I think it makes it fraud, and even the drivers are complicit.
 
lcpiper said:
Actually, if the company "enlisted it's employees" into the scheme, I think it makes it fraud, and even the drivers are complicit.
Click to expand...


Could very well be. That's up to the FTC and the courts to figure out, if they even pursue it.
 
PhaseNoise said:
I had a feeling this was going on, so I tried a solution which I felt might result in both happy drivers and no snot-rockets in my food.
Nominal tip on the bill officially (avoid snot rockets), then a much larger actual cash tip at the door (actually make driver happy).

It's gone well.
Click to expand...

And it's such a simple solution. S'not rocket science.
 
TXE36 said:
Another side effect of tip theft is it really suppresses the effectiveness of the tip. The tip is given because the customer is happy with the service and the service provider appreciates the reward. This can be readily seen in transactions that don't normally have tips (thus not having tip stealing mechanisms in place).

For example, there was a tire shop I frequented for tires for my track car. During a busy season, I was buying 4 sets of tires a year. The store had a deal of $40 to mount 4 track tires on track wheels - part of that deal was no worries if they scratched the wheels and the wheels had to be loose - a very good deal for the weekend track guy. The regular rate for mounting 4 tires was $64. What worked really well was to take the $40 deal and then go out on the shop floor to the guy actually mounting the tires and give him a twenty. Do that a couple of times and I swear they were tempted to drop another customer's car off the lift when you showed up the next time. The guys on the floor really appreciated it, I never waited very long, no wheel damage, and I never had bad mount. Management like it because it caused me to buy the tires at the store. The cliche "win-win" comes to mind.

The bottom line is tipping works if the management doesn't steal it.

-Mike
Click to expand...

I did a similar thing with my UPS driver. One time, I went through a period where I ordered a series of very heavy packages. Every now and then I would see him and his wife at one of our favorite restaurants, so as a "thank you" and "sorry!" for having to deliver all of those packages I gave him a gift certificate to that restaurant. He was extremely appreciative, and since then I've never had better delivery service. Obviously he can't control how my packages are treated before he gets them, but he does a great job with them and makes sure they are left well out of the weather if I'm not home. He also gave me his number and told me to contact him if I have any problems or special requests.

So yeah, sometimes going that extra mile for someone who doesn't work in a tipping industry is appreciated.
 
Domino's started charging a Service Fee a few years back which they state is not a tip for the driver but it's a pretty large fee- $5.99 in my area...so they want you to tip plus charge you an extra fee
 
I'd rather get my own food then pay some bullshit service charge.
I bought your food that's enough from me.
 
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I no longer order delivery from places that charge a fee. Now my pizza costs an additional $10+ with fee plus tip if i want it delivered. I'm not going to punish the driver for that by withholding a tip and considering the fee his or her tip (it's not).
Ironically this still punishes the driver because less deliveries means less drivers.

I'm a big boy though - I can go and get my own food...
 
sharknice said:
Yet the US is near the top for average wage and median household income according to OECD and every other list. Unemployment is at an all time low, especially for super low end jobs like that. There are no excuses for continuing to work at a place that does that when you can find another job the next day.
Click to expand...
While there is nothing here to disagree with Underemployment and Unemployment are very different things and average wage is very deceptive way to measure growth as you can have the top end very much offset and eclipse the bottom end resulting in an inflated average if not weighted correctly. But I 100% agree that individuals with degrees and education G12 and beyond have the ability to change jobs pretty easily if they have the ability to move. Recent studies are showing that more people than ever are essentially locked geographically due to financial burdens and movement between towns and cities is at an all time low. But yes I agree for much of the workforce the ability to find a new job same day is a very real possibility.
 
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