NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER and 2060 SUPER Review Roundup

I agree with most that the Super series is what the original RTX launch shoulda been like.
That isn't how business works. By that logic, the 1080Ti is what the 1080 is what the 980Ti is what the 980 is what the 780 blah blah going all the way back to Pong should have been. HOW DARE YOU.

There is always something faster and better as time marches on.

The only should/should not in business is what the market will bear.
 
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That isn't how business works. By that logic, the 1080Ti is what the 1080 is what the 980Ti is what the 980 is what the 780 blah blah going all the way back to Pong is what it should've been.

There is always something faster and better as time marches on.

The only should/should not in business is what the market will bear.
Well what I meant was that the RTX Super series has the kind of gains over Pascal that I had hoped to see from the original RTX launch. I didn't think the 1080 Ti was what the 1080 shoulda been, or that the 980 Ti was what the 980 shoulda been, etc. It's cool if you wanna beef up your existing GPUs a year later, slap on "Ti" or "Super" or whatever you will. I'm just saying original RTX launch was kinda underwhelming in terms of overall generational performance with rasterization, but if they had released with what we see in the Super series now, things woulda felt a bit better. Would have been real nice to see the 2070 match or beat the 1080 Ti when RTX series first launched. Overall I still feel like an XX70-level card should be below $400, but yeah 2070 Super sounding pretty good so far.
 
Well what I meant was that the RTX Super series has the kind of gains over Pascal that I had hoped to see from the original RTX launch. I didn't think the 1080 Ti was what the 1080 shoulda been, or that the 980 Ti was what the 980 shoulda been, etc. It's cool if you wanna beef up your existing GPUs a year later, slap on "Ti" or "Super" or whatever you will. I'm just saying original RTX launch was kinda underwhelming in terms of overall generational performance with rasterization, but if they had released with what we see in the Super series now, things woulda felt a bit better. Would have been real nice to see the 2070 match or beat the 1080 Ti when RTX series first launched. Overall I still feel like an XX70-level card should be below $400, but yeah 2070 Super sounding pretty good so far.

I agree but I think it's a bit more than that as well. Many people are looking at price/performance. The price/performance ratio at launch was simply bad. Greatly increased prices along with a rather anemic performance increase compared to previous generations simply didn't sit well with a lot of folks. The performance of the new cards is closer to what people expected and that's assuming no price increase.
 
When you have little to zero competition in the market segment, you do not need to have large jumps in performance from one generation to the next. Kind of like the other large company that makes computer parts has been doing for the past few years.
The incentive is to stay ahead of the competition to maintain the market share, rake in the bucks, and keep the shareholders happy.
For Nvidia, achievement unlocked!
 
AdoredTV excellent analysis of the how and why super was needed for Nvidia ....
Also a run down of how much faster the cards are from several sites mentioned in the first post.

 
still looks to me that buying a used 1080 TI/TI FE is still the better deal than any RTX cards. ray tracing is meh and kills performance still. Until that isn't a problem, would bother when a 11gb TI FE can be found for 450 bucks.
After reading Brent's review, I feel the same. No regrets on my 1080Ti I bought a few months ago for around $475 shipped. The FPS difference is so small it doesn't matter but that > 8G of ram buys you better textures right now, even in older games. A month prior to that i had sold my GTX 1080 for $350 to a friend who was local as it was better performance than the 2060 he was looking at for $350. My out of pocket on that upgrade was only $125.

Also: I know he mentioned the 2070 Super uses less power than the 1080Ti but it's also powering less ram.
 
After reading Brent's review, I feel the same. No regrets on my 1080Ti I bought a few months ago for around $475 shipped. The FPS difference is so small it doesn't matter but that > 8G of ram buys you better textures right now, even in older games. A month prior to that i had sold my GTX 1080 for $350 to a friend who was local as it was better performance than the 2060 he was looking at for $350. My out of pocket on that upgrade was only $125.

Also: I know he mentioned the 2070 Super uses less power than the 1080Ti but it's also powering less ram.

Guess for many thwy probably dont even look at power usage. I sure dont.
 
Its pretty amazing how Nvidia has fooled the market. They pretty much released it at 499 and looking a lot better all of sudden and the savior of gaming. Master of marketing. Release Turing at super high prices and then still release it 499 and raise the 2060 to 399 with super versions and milk em again because now they are cheaper then before haha. AMD is going the same way, good luck with cheap graphics card now, consumers have shifted it that way sadly, because more expensive is more better lol.
 
So what exactly is “super” about it, seems like rebranding... the 2070 Super is basically the 2080. WOOOOW
 
So what exactly is “super” about it, seems like rebranding... the 2070 Super is basically the 2080. WOOOOW

Basically. Nvidia basically undercut their ultra high price and looks like everyone got comfortable with those prices and now its a great price all of sudden. Haha.
 
So what exactly is “super” about it, seems like rebranding... the 2070 Super is basically the 2080. WOOOOW

Not terribly exciting, but the whole point of this refresh is revealed on 7/7. If people are meh about Navi, they NVidia scored.
 
Not terribly exciting, but the whole point of this refresh is revealed on 7/7. If people are meh about Navi, they NVidia scored.

Yep AMD sort of showed their hand too early. If they waited it would have been fine. I do think AMD sort of priced their card in a way to see what nvidia does. I do think they have room to have big margins even at 329.99 and 399.99 for 5700xt.
 
So what exactly is “super” about it, seems like rebranding... the 2070 Super is basically the 2080. WOOOOW
What's not Super about it? Yield improvement trickledown. Refreshes aren't a new thing.

Rebranding/differentiation was unavoidable since the alternative would be creating even more model numbers; or keeping model #'s the same which would create confusion with people not knowing whether they got the "old" 2070, or the "new" 2070, etc -- the anti-Nvidia brigade would've had a meltdown with something like that (total cranial liquefaction).
 
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Rebranding/differentiation was unavoidable since the alternative would be creating even more model numbers; or keeping model #'s the same which would create confusion with people not knowing whether they got the "old" 2070, or the "new" 2070, etc -- the anti-Nvidia brigade would've had a meltdown with something like that (total cranial liquefaction).

Given that they just upsized some SKUs, they didn't even need to rebrand- they could dropped prices and kept stuff simple.

The 'Super' refresh lets them drop prices for performance levels without making retail price adjustments. Best advantage I can imagine from the new SKUs is that they don't look like they're dropping prices to the masses, which works as a sort of means to preserve their 'premium' brand cache' relative to AMD.
 
What's not Super about it? Yield improvement trickledown. Refreshes aren't a new thing.

Rebranding/differentiation was unavoidable since the alternative would be creating even more model numbers; or keeping model #'s the same which would create confusion with people not knowing whether they got the "old" 2070, or the "new" 2070, etc -- the anti-Nvidia brigade would've had a meltdown with something like that (total cranial liquefaction).

LOL I ain’t anti NVIDIA, I have a Titan... It is just funny that people think rebranding the 2080 as a 2070 Super is even worth talking about. They should have just left the entire lineup as is and slash prices more instead of all the money wasted on launch garbage advertising.
 
Yep AMD sort of showed their hand too early. If they waited it would have been fine. I do think AMD sort of priced their card in a way to see what nvidia does. I do think they have room to have big margins even at 329.99 and 399.99 for 5700xt.

I strongly disagree that AMD showed their hand too early. nVidia knows better than the public about what is going on inside AMD's graphics division and who knows how long they've had a working card to run tests on.

If anything this shows nVidia has some concerns regarding long term Navi. There would have been no reason to make any changes to the lineup at all assuming sales on nVidia cards is as wonderful as some people have been saying. It's very similar to what we've heard out of Intel regarding the new Ryzen series. First of all Intel is going to release what amounts to a cherry picked 9900k to "combat" AMD's new CPUs. Then there's the rumor that Intel will be lower prices on at least some of their CPUs. Neither of those actions would even be contemplated without some worry on Intel's part. I think we're seeing the same thing here with nVidia regarding Navi or at least the future of Navi.
 
I strongly disagree that AMD showed their hand too early.

This is hard to quantify, with dueling marketing departments, but we can absolutely say that AMD gave enough of a heads up on pricing that Nvidia was able to steal a bit of their thunder.

If anything this shows nVidia has some concerns regarding long term Navi.

Very doubtful. They know (as AMD has basically said) that Navi is meant to replace Polaris as the low- to mid-end segment. Well, Polaris was never actually mid-range, but it was meant to be.

More than anything, if anything, Nvidia is taking advantage of better yields and sacrificing some margins to get products moving off shelves again. Navi in its present form isn't a real threat to Nvidia's bottom line, not nearly as much as Nvidia's own pricing has been. In the case that Nvidia's initial pricing of the RTX lineup was representative of costs (comparing unit costs of Turing to Pascal), and yields have actually improved, then Nvidia's move makes sense, as does the timing.
 
This is hard to quantify, with dueling marketing departments, but we can absolutely say that AMD gave enough of a heads up on pricing that Nvidia was able to steal a bit of their thunder.



Very doubtful. They know (as AMD has basically said) that Navi is meant to replace Polaris as the low- to mid-end segment. Well, Polaris was never actually mid-range, but it was meant to be.

More than anything, if anything, Nvidia is taking advantage of better yields and sacrificing some margins to get products moving off shelves again. Navi in its present form isn't a real threat to Nvidia's bottom line, not nearly as much as Nvidia's own pricing has been. In the case that Nvidia's initial pricing of the RTX lineup was representative of costs (comparing unit costs of Turing to Pascal), and yields have actually improved, then Nvidia's move makes sense, as does the timing.

It has nothing to do with yields, mining is dead (well for a bit longer anyway) their profits are down, RTX was a flop and they have finally found the breaking point where consumers go fk it ill keep my old card for another year.
 
It has nothing to do with yields

Did you perhaps notice that the GPUs used in the RTX series are larger than the previous generation?

mining is dead (well for a bit longer anyway)

This is one reason to put out stuff at a higher price, implying that they need to clear old channel stock. It does seem like we're past that now.

RTX was a flop and they have finally found the breaking point where consumers go fk it ill keep my old card for another year.

Fairly sure they knew that was coming the moment they decided to mass produce RTX hardware. Fortunately, RTX isn't a 'flop', they're selling quite well, and now they'll sell even better. One big challenge Nvidia does face in terms of adoption is that their main competition absolutely is their last product. Pascal was damn good and AMD has yet to meet that standard, let alone RTX.
 
AdoredTV excellent analysis of the how and why super was needed for Nvidia ....
Also a run down of how much faster the cards are from several sites mentioned in the first post.



Good analysis. The only things I disagree with him on is the idea that 2060Super is a good value. It isn't at $399, especially as the AIB cards will be more. It is the same argument with 1660ti vs stock 2060 prices. You get close enough to the next tier that you might as well go up. In this case to the 2070. Downside is you get the FE or stock cards without the better cooling/noise/bling of custom cards. That and I think AMD might have room to drop Navi prices soon after release. Time will tell if AMD played their hand wrong with showing the high prices too early. The quick name change is the main point in his favor. Lots of greed going around these days in gpu land.
 
Did you perhaps notice that the GPUs used in the RTX series are larger than the previous generation?



This is one reason to put out stuff at a higher price, implying that they need to clear old channel stock. It does seem like we're past that now.



Fairly sure they knew that was coming the moment they decided to mass produce RTX hardware. Fortunately, RTX isn't a 'flop', they're selling quite well, and now they'll sell even better. One big challenge Nvidia does face in terms of adoption is that their main competition absolutely is their last product. Pascal was damn good and AMD has yet to meet that standard, let alone RTX.

If yields were higher then they would be enabling more CUDA cores instead of less, the 2070 super is basically a 2080 with roughly 400 less cores. Identical PCB.

RTX was a flop, marginal IQ difference for a big performance hit and a huge price premium, hence why NVIDIA revenue is down 30%

Mixed with Tesla making their own silicon now and leaving NVIDIA in a gutter is not good news for them.

Yes Pascal was good, we aren’t talking about Pascal. We are talking about RTX and FYI the Radeon VII is basically a match for the 1080ti. So AMD are closing in, as much as I hate them.
 
If yields were higher then they would be enabling more CUDA cores instead of less, the 2070 super is basically a 2080 with roughly 400 less cores. Identical PCB.

RTX was a flop, marginal IQ difference for a big performance hit and a huge price premium, hence why NVIDIA revenue is down 30%

Mixed with Tesla making their own silicon now and leaving NVIDIA in a gutter is not good news for them.

Yes Pascal was good, we aren’t talking about Pascal. We are talking about RTX and FYI the Radeon VII is basically a match for the 1080ti. So AMD are closing in, as much as I hate them.

Nvidia’s revenue is in line with pre-mining bloat. A drop looks bad, and is not what investors like, but it’s not like they suddenly lost a ton of core customers. It’s premature to make ANY call on RTX sales. There was so much cheap Pascal inventory on the market after the mining bust that we really need to wait for this quarter to get anything close to a clear picture on how things are going.
 
Nvidia’s revenue is in line with pre-mining bloat. A drop looks bad, and is not what investors like, but it’s not like they suddenly lost a ton of core customers. It’s premature to make ANY call on RTX sales. There was so much cheap Pascal inventory on the market after the mining bust that we really need to wait for this quarter to get anything close to a clear picture on how things are going.

Mining has been hot for ALOT longer than 2018. The consensus has been “my Pascal card still performs great, why the hell would I want to upgrade just for RTX at these stupid prices.

I got my Titan XP in 2016 and been mining ever since, still runs any game at max settings for 2.5k resolution.

Face it, NVIDIA got greedy after the mining boom thinking they could reap the rewards instead of retailers and it backfired. This rebrand is nothing more than trying to save face, sell a “FRESH NEW” product at the price to performance they should have offered the first time around.
 
It has nothing to do with yields, mining is dead (well for a bit longer anyway) their profits are down, RTX was a flop and they have finally found the breaking point where consumers go fk it ill keep my old card for another year.

Wishing for something to be true != actually being true:

upload_2019-7-4_8-5-5.png
 
Mining has been hot for ALOT longer than 2018. The consensus has been “my Pascal card still performs great, why the hell would I want to upgrade just for RTX at these stupid prices.

I got my Titan XP in 2016 and been mining ever since, still runs any game at max settings for 2.5k resolution.

Face it, NVIDIA got greedy after the mining boom thinking they could reap the rewards instead of retailers and it backfired. This rebrand is nothing more than trying to save face, sell a “FRESH NEW” product at the price to performance they should have offered the first time around.

Anecdotal reports do not equal proof. Anyone trying to claim anything about RTX sales right now are essentially engaging in baseless speculation. Sales could have been bad, they could have been decent, they could have been good, who the heck knows. I doubt they flew off the shelves in droves, but I really have no idea. Nvidfa's next financial report should be pretty interesting.

Of course they "got greedy". They're a for profit company that has an effective monopoly on the dedicated GPU market. They, and many others in the hardware industry, expected the mining bubble to last longer and got caught with their pants down when it didn't. Nvidia likely priced high in order to move Pascal inventory. Now they're using a refresh to get new attention and make their cards look better. That's not "greedy" its just good marketing.
 
Not terribly exciting, but the whole point of this refresh is revealed on 7/7. If people are meh about Navi, they NVidia scored.
A picture is worth a thousand words :

Nvidia_profit.png


Maybe Nvidia had some other reason attached to launching super. Maybe it has nothing to do at all with Navi.
 
Someone seems to be ingoring the collapse of the Crypto bubble...but I guess it doesn't suit their "narrative"...

Like I said, the bubble was strong back to 2016, NVIDIA was not a huge player in the mining space.
 
Oh look, evidence :snaphappy:

Isn’t it funny how it lines up nicely with when RTX stock hit shelves.

RTX stock hit shelves in September which would have been within Nvidia's Q3 FY19. Q3 for Nvidia ends in mid-October. There was a downward trend at the time, but the massive drop came in Q4. Q4 was during the mining market collapse.

Like I said, the bubble was strong back to 2016, NVIDIA was not a huge player in the mining space.

If they weren't a huge player why were all their cards selling out? Why did their cards get so expensive on the used market? Why were Chinese AIBs creating custom mining Nvidia cards and selling shit loads of them? Nvidia was a huge player in the mining market because they were the only company that had GPUs people could purchase.
 
A picture is worth a thousand words :

Not if it's a picture from an Adored YT video.

Like I said, the bubble was strong back to 2016, NVIDIA was not a huge player in the mining space.

Total Nonsense.

Do we need to revisit the pictures of computer store shelves completely Empty of both NVidia and AMD cards.

You couldn't buy anything above a 1050 for a long time and you paid something like 50% premium if you could.
 
Not if it's a picture from an Adored YT video.
https://s22.q4cdn.com/364334381/fil...rts/2019/Q419/Rev_by_Mkt_Qtrly_Trend_Q419.pdf
https://gfxspeak.com/2019/05/21/nvidias-fy20-results/
Gaming revenue was $1.05 billion, down 39% from a year ago and up 11% sequentially. The year-on-year decrease primarily reflects a decline in shipments of gaming GPUs and SOC modules for gaming platforms. The sequential increase primarily reflects growth in gaming GPUs. The company believes a shortage of Intel processors that is impacting the global PC market will affect its sales of gaming GPUs for laptops in the second quarter of the fiscal year 2020.


Not sure when you have public sources to back things up and can show that it is not from AdoredTV but just something we can all access how does it become AdoredTV fault?
The reasoning behind AdoredTV published it so it is not true is so backwards it is not funny.

You should watch his video he even says he would buy the RTX 2070 super if he wanted to spend $500.
Ooh wait you can't do that and still have credibility on here can you now all of a sudden?
 
If yields were higher then they would be enabling more CUDA cores instead of less, the 2070 super is basically a 2080 with roughly 400 less cores. Identical PCB.

That's what they did. I don't know why you're comparing the 2070 Super to the 2080- the 2070 Super should be compared to the 2070.

RTX was a flop, marginal IQ difference for a big performance hit and a huge price premium

Well, there was a performance jump because the cards were faster than the previous generation and released with RT hardware- and the IQ difference is huge while the performance premium isn't that big to use it. Notice that the last two statements are opinions.

Mixed with Tesla making their own silicon now and leaving NVIDIA in a gutter is not good news for them.

Tesla seeks to control costs through vertical integration. That's normal. That doesn't at all take away from the AI-focused products that Nvidia is producing.

Yes Pascal was good, we aren’t talking about Pascal. We are talking about RTX

Turing must be considered in the context of Pascal because:

the Radeon VII is basically a match for the 1080ti

...the Radeon VII came much later, so when talking about sales numbers and market share, Turing's main competitor was Pascal at closeout pricing. Even then, the Radeon VII makes for a poor competitor outside of those looking for specific functions like compute. Its single saving grace is that it is the fastest consumer GPU that supports HDMI VRR.
 
You should watch his video he even says he would buy the RTX 2070 super if he wanted to spend $500.
Ooh wait you can't do that and still have credibility on here can you now all of a sudden?

I'll watch GN and a few others- but I'm not watching AdoredTV, ever.

Find another source.
 
I'll watch GN and a few others- but I'm not watching AdoredTV, ever.

Be less clueless :)
I mean it is a big world out there by only fine tuning your braincells by hearing only what you want to hear that means that your development as a whole is rather isolated and pretty limited something that you have no reservation in showing ;)
 
Be less clueless :)
I mean it is a big world out there by only fine tuning your braincells by hearing only what you want to hear that means that your development as a whole is rather isolated and pretty limited something that you have no reservation in showing ;)

AdoredTV has no credibility with me. By extension, people that rely on their work do not either.

Find another source.
 
AdoredTV has no credibility with me. By extension, people that rely on their work do not either.

Find another source.
To do what exactly ?
I posted an excerpt from him endorsing Nvidia it does not mean anything if I get it from another source especially since all of them signed 5 year NDA from Nvidia ...

Talking about no credibility ..
 
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