AMD’s Navi GPU coming July Radeon RX 5700 OFFICIAL

Ford vs Ferrari has been highly dramatized since it happened. Engineers, drivers and people in the industry in general where not all that shocked back in the day.

These days its a adorable "underdog" story, but lets not forget how formidable the Ford - Shelby team was both talent wise and financially.

A funner story is Lancia (I think) winning rally with a RWD car when all the competitors were using AWD. At least the top gear cast made it entertaining.

Boil said:

... the GT350R has that flat plane crank... ;^p

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Ford didnt say it regardless of what it can do

Snowdog said:

It's like you invented a new game, try to get the ball through the ever moving goal posts.

Are you now backing away from the nonsense rumor you have been defending as if it were fact?

No she didn't say AMD designed the Navi Architecture for Sony. She said AMD designed a Navi based SoC for Sony, just like she will turn around and design one for Microsoft.

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You brought up Vega, not me as I don't care to guess what the circumstances behind it were. Going by what Dr. Su said about designing Navi's SoC for Sony's special sauce, one can take her at her word and assume a good chunk (if not all) the effort went into ensuring the Navi RDNA architecture was built to satisfy Sony with PC as an afterthought. Given Navi's projected performance on the PC and absence of a high end part, this makes much more sense than anything you've said. Now if Navi does well (which it will thanks to console sales), AMD will be able to leverage that to lower PC MSRP and take on NVIDIA quite comfortably. Common sense.

tangoseal said:

They never said they would.

Ford never said the mustang competes with Ferrari yet someone out there probably bitched because it didn't.

5150 I don't think this thread is for you homie. All you have done is napalm AMD the whole thread.

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Napalmed AMD? What?

5150Joker said:

You brought up Vega, not me as I don't care to guess what the circumstances behind it were. Going by what Dr. Su said about designing Navi's SoC for Sony's special sauce, one can take her at her word and assume a good chunk (if not all) the effort went into ensuring Navi was built to satisfy Sony with PC as an afterthought. Given Navi's projected performance on the PC and absence of a high end part, this makes much more sense than anything you've said. Now if Navi does well (which it will thanks to console sales), AMD will be able to leverage that to lower PC sales. Common sense.

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As I said before. I brought up Vega (sabotaged to work for Sony on Navi), because it is the major point to the Forbes rumor you have repeatedly referenced as fact.

Last time I said this, you just seemed to abandon that rumor in favor of projecting your beliefs on the CEOs generic marketing post.

But if you believe that initial Forbes rumor is true, is it only the parts you like that you believe true?

Snowdog said:

As I said before. I brought up Vega (sabotaged to work for Sony on Navi), because it is the major point to the Forbes rumor you have repeatedly referenced as fact.

Last time I said this, you just seemed to abandon that rumor in favor of projecting your beliefs on the CEOs generic marketing post.

But if you believe that initial Forbes rumor is true, is it only the parts you like that you believe true?

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Forbes is just one source I linked, PCGN also has an article with the same speculation that it was built with Sony in mind. Nobody outside of AMD internal documents or the CEO saying explicitly will ever verify this so we're left with what she HAS said which is that they tailored the Navi SoC for Sony. When you add that together with long term financial gains, it makes perfect sense Navi would be Sony first and PC second in design and it's lack of high end performance on the PC shows this. But the long term will payoff for AMD because they will be able to better compete on prices thanks to millions of Navi SoC being sold in Playstations. That was my point, the rest you interjected on your own about Vega to make some obscure point that wasn't even related to what I first said. So far all you've offered up is your own opinions and your alt account The Rookie which is no more valid than what I said, maybe even less so since at least I have something the CEO has said on record to back up the direction I believe AMD went with Navi.

By your asinine logic Nvidia created G70 for Sony since RSX is heavily similar to the 7800GTX.

Or maybe. They just worked together in a loose partnership, wherein the console manufacturer goes “hey a chip that can accomplish X would be real neato” and the GPU manufacturer replies with “yeah man, that would be neato we’ll see if it’s possible”

Nolan7689 said:

By your asinine logic Nvidia created G70 for Sony since RSX is heavily similar to the 7800GTX.

Or maybe. They just worked together in a loose partnership, wherein the console manufacturer goes “hey a chip that can accomplish X would be real neato” and the GPU manufacturer replies with “yeah man, that would be neato we’ll see if it’s possible”

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Sure they worked together with them in partnership in design of Navi, I never said otherwise. But "loosely" can mean anything from sending a few specs over for what they want and using an off the shelf part to custom designing an entire SoC for them and the graphics architecture that powers it. Tweaktown seems to think that AMD puts a lot of emphasis on its semicustom business and especially their relationship with Sony and it's influence over AMD so I guess they must have "asinine" logic too, just you and Snowdog know better:

5150Joker said:

You brought up Vega, not me as I don't care to guess what the circumstances behind it were. Going by what Dr. Su said about designing Navi's SoC for Sony's special sauce, one can take her at her word and assume a good chunk (if not all) the effort went into ensuring the Navi RDNA architecture was built to satisfy Sony with PC as an afterthought. Given Navi's projected performance on the PC and absence of a high end part, this makes much more sense than anything you've said. Now if Navi does well (which it will thanks to console sales), AMD will be able to leverage that to lower PC MSRP and take on NVIDIA quite comfortably. Common sense.

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No, that's just you taking things out of context.

All that means is that the specific implementation of Navi for Sony (in the PlayStation) has certain features that are not that are not found in other implementations (i.e. desktop variation).

What it does not mean is that AMD made Navi specifically for Sony.

TheRookie said:

No, that's just you taking things out of context.

All that means is that the specific implementation of Navi for Sony (in the PlayStation) has certain features that are not that are not found in other implementations (i.e. desktop variation).

What it does not mean is that AMD made Navi specifically for Sony.

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Seems Tweaktown who speak to AIBs and have direct access to AMD on the floor of these shows disagrees with you, Snowdog and Nolan. But what do they know right? Logically it makes perfect sense that AMD, who was always financially insolvent, needed long term growth and consoles provide that vs their fledgling PC discrete business. It makes PERFECT sense they would work with Sony to design Navi explicitly as a console first design and Radeon/PC second. It seems Tweaktown thinks so but you guys disagree and think AMD just couldn't design a high end part.

5150Joker said:

Seems Tweaktown who speak to AIBs and have direct access to AMD on the floor of these shows disagrees with you, Snowdog and Nolan. But what do they know right? Logically it makes perfect sense that AMD, who was always financially insolvent, needed long term growth and consoles provide that vs their fledgling PC discrete business. It makes PERFECT sense they would work with Sony to design Navi explicitly as a console first design and Radeon/PC second. It seems Tweaktown thinks so but you guys disagree and think AMD just couldn't design a high end part.

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Considering that the TweakTown article and the Forbes article were published just one day apart, it's unlikely that there were two different sources.

One article is likely written based on the other.

TheRookie said:

Considering that the TweakTown article and the Forbes article were published just one day apart, it's unlikely that there were two different sources.

One article is likely written based on the other.

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Yeah sure ok

NKD said:

Rumor is RX 5700 series is going to be first go at RDNA and likely isn't fully baked and full implementation of RDNA will be the big Navi. We shall see.

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RDNA its still GCN.. just Compute crippled and gaming optimized.. pretty much what Nvidia has been doing in their consumer market of GPU.. this is a good move honestly, they need a market segmentation, gaming oriented GPU and compute, professional, data center, IA oriented GPUs.. this is how they Will catch nvidia in efficiency and maybe, just maybe able to outperform again since the 7970 vs GTX 680 era...

5150Joker said:

Yeah sure ok

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Yeah, try to deflect the reasonable explanation, with sarcasm.

Nearly every rumor posted gets recycled like this. The timing isn't a coincidence.

Every time a new story crops up(fact or fiction), I always track down the original, because it's like the old kids game telephone, it changes slightly with each retelling, so if we are going to look at a story we should start with the original before it gets embellished. There is even a variation of that game called "rumors" where they change each retelling on purpose.

Forbes is the original source of this rumor and revolved around a fairy tale narrative that AMD took most of the engineers away from a displeased Raja Koduri, hamstringing Vega in the process, and perfecting Navi in the process. ludicrous even in any kind of practical sense since they would have been too far out of development sync for that to make any sense.

Same fairy tale also says:

On a related note, a new rumor emerged recently about Navi for desktop being merely a midrange part and not competing with Nvidia's high-end GeForce cards. That makes perfect sense if it was developed primarily for a console first.

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The author of this nonsense seems to have a very hard time differentiating between specific implementations, and base technology. He acts like Navi is one specific product that will be shared (He said a similar thing that Polaris was developed for consoles), and it's console "origins" will mean limits on desktop performance.

GPU technology is the most scalable out there. When NVidia was making cellphone chips it used the same base technology from cellphones to the highest end Titan GPUs, and Pro workstation GPUs.

Saying the base technology is designed for consoles is nonsense, just as saying it was designed for Sony is nonsense.

The base technologies (Zen, Zen 2, GCN, RDNA ...) are designed to be the best unit of CPU or GPU execution, that AMD can develop. By AMD, for AMD, to scale and tailor specific implementations for the widest range of customers possible.

The focus of the semi-custom business is on the "semi" as in partially custom. If you want to pay you can get the base tehcnolgoy units assembled in a way that benefits you more than the general wide distribution parts.

That is all. You don't get to design the underlying base technology. That is absurd notion brought to you in a rumor, written by someone who really doesn't even understand what he is writing about, and can't even grasp the scalability of graphics technology.

I think you put too much faith in the tweaktown article. One guy talks to a “source” and it’s gospel that Sony called the shots on Navi. That’s up there with believing everything AdoredTV posts.

Whatever, I’ll concede it’s possible on the basis that Navi is still GCN. AMD has been beating that horse for quite some time so why not customize it with a fresh set of eyes.

However arguing that AMDs lack of high end Navi is evidence of being console first PC second is dumb. AMD cannot compete at the high end. The Radeon VII is evidence of that. GCN is tapped. Big Navi would just be hot and hungry and who knows if it would even compete.

Anyways. I’m done. This argument isn’t worth the effort already expended and is just shitting up the thread.

A good analogy is a cake shop.

You can go in and order pre-made cakes or you can custom order "special" cakes.

The architectures (Navi, Zen 2) themselves are like the ingredients used to make the cakes.

Araxie said:

RDNA its still GCN.. just Compute crippled and gaming optimized.. pretty much what Nvidia has been doing in their consumer market of GPU.. this is a good move honestly, they need a market segmentation, gaming oriented GPU and compute, professional, data center, IA oriented GPUs.. this is how they Will catch nvidia in efficiency and maybe, just maybe able to outperform again since the 7970 vs GTX 680 era...

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there was a good post online in Linux forums where AMD employee explained that people confuse things. RDNA is using GCN ISA, like instruction set language. That is how AMD internally refers to it. SO its like x86. Like zen, zen 2 may use different architectures but they use the same instruction set.



birdie (Senior Member):

AMD Radeon RX 5000 is hybrid with elements of GCN - "pure" RDNA only in 2020

bridgman (AMD LINUX):

You could call it a hybrid but not in that sense... we used to talk about GCN as an ISA, but it seems that most people outside AMD think of GCN as a micro-architecture instead (ie an implementation of the ISA). RDNA is GCN ISA but not what you think of as GCN architecture.

5150Joker said:

Yeah sure ok

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There need to be a loop counter on careless writers, and a out to the least objective writer.