Sorry, no RTX2080 performance for $300 on Navi

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funkydmunky said:
Where was it ever stated 2080@$300?
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The Actual claim was Navi 10 (RX 3080) as RTX 2070 competitor at $250:
https://videocardz.com/79253/adoredtv-amd-to-introduce-radeon-rx-3000-series
AMD-Radeon-RX-3080-specs.jpg
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Honestly, I don't have any problem picking up a midrange or even entry level GPU for some purposes, but I won't be picking up a primary gaming GPU without hardware DXR support.

No idea when AMD is going to get around to doing that. No idea if they'll even be competitive when they do.
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What a shitty goalpost to use. It works in a single tunnel shooter, easily optimised for and half a year later. DXR is a bigger flop than any card amd has released in a long time.
 
I gave up on AMD after about 4 years and bought a RTX 2060 on sale. Faster than my water cooled V56 was and my freesync monitor actually works now. I don't know what AMD can legitimately do at this point which really makes me sad. I don't want to support Nvidia.
 
DooKey said:
DXR is the future, that's the f-word you are looking for.
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It's funny, because the first thing everyone does with a raytracer is go full-bore "we must refract or reflect ALL THE THINGS", and that's what these initial titles do to a first order. It's POV-Ray all over again, with transparent chess pieces on a mirrored board. But with tanks...

However it can also be used more subtly, and supplant or augment portions of a traditional rendering pipeline in less heavy-handed ways. There's nice hardware there, and it takes time to research out some good algorithms to use it effectively, beyond Reflect All The Things.

Getting back to the "future" aspect, there are two paths possible:
1) Raytracing is the future... and always will be.
2) Raytracing is the future, and we'll see that occur with incremental, lighter-touch usage. Effective hybridization of techniques.

I personally suspect #2. Sensible amounts of raytracing usage will start to be included over time. Having hw support will allow more options in fine tuning your experience more and more as we move forward.
 
DooKey said:
DXR is the future, that's the f-word you are looking for.
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Not if you go by what Nvidia is doing, next to no game support (yay for Q2) where as you can find many titles using their middle-ware and segmented to hell hardware support (ray tracing for the rich people hurrah).
 
TheRookie said:
The actual claim was ~GeForce RTX 2080 performance for $330

View attachment 165629
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That chart reads straight across. Navi 10 3080 equaling Vega 64 +10-15% for $250.

A further +15% above that is the $330 price point, the difference being that it’s Navi 10 with 56CU vs 48 on the 3080.

Now I don’t know for sure, but it seems like you’re both correct in how you’re remembering the rumors with just some naming nomenclature mix up.

And frankly at this point arguing the “leaks” is just dumb. They didn’t even get the naming convention right much less anything else.
 
Nolan7689 said:
And frankly at this point arguing the “leaks” is just dumb. They didn’t even get the naming convention right much less anything else.
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You mean when people speculate you should not take it as fact?
 
Nolan7689 said:
Never heard that before, source please?

290X was also actually pretty good performance as well but definitely too hot. Should’ve been the end of GCN then (or maybe the 480, if 390 hadn’t happened)

Regardless of when GCN should’ve been retired though, it is impressive in a way how far they brute forced the design to perform.
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Back in those days that rumor about the 680 was everywhere, it was so annoying.
 
TheRookie said:
The actual claim was ~GeForce RTX 2080 performance for $330

View attachment 165629
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Looks like Navi 12 parts were the plan that worked but renamed to Navi 10, pricing was laughable. The actual Navi 10 failed and was not viable at that or this time and the 40CU turned out to be beating the Vega 64 with lower power, beats the 2070 etc. making it worthy of the over $400 price. No way I believe AMD did not have a bigger Navi part in the works - it just failed is the bottom line or had too many issues (power looks to be the issue). If AMD had a higher end part I think the 5700xt and non would have been at a lower price point, sticking it to Nvidia but also getting more sells. When will AMD have Navi 2 out or big Navi? Will big Navi just go to Google is anyone's guess besides AMD.
 
Thats what you get when you drink the Kool-Aid on the hype train.

I was hoping for them to be cheaper so I could just toss one into my Ncase, but the 2200G is pulling its weight pretty well... Cant wait to see if the APU gets refreshed next gen.
 
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IdiotInCharge said:
I don't use AMD's lack of innovation as a 'goal post'.
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'I won't be picking up a primary gaming GPU without hardware DXR support.'
If it was true innovation it would be superior and useful everywhere. It is not and is a major flop at this stage 6 months in and yet you wouldn't buy a card without it because it works in a single (tunnel shooter) title better than upres? That's called a shitty goalpost. Don't be salty about your NVDA share price.
It's like saying the 2020 Camry is better because it has a cup holder designed for a beer keg. You can't really use it.

And don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not here rooting for Navi. Other than the uarch improvements being interesting for me it's too little, too late as usual. If it was cheaper, it would be a better fight, however hopefully the new Nvidya STI (super Ti). cards change the price to where it should be.
 
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N4CR said:
If it was true innovation it would be superior and useful everywhere.
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Lol.

You're moving the bar about incessantly. AMD has failed to innovate with ATi. They haven't made bad products, and they've even gotten the drivers more or less up to par, but they're not leading in terms of technology.

With respect to ray tracing hardware, I won't be upgrading my gaming desktop without it. Period.

I'm not in a hurry to upgrade, mind you, my 1080Ti is quite the respectable card. But its replacement will have ray tracing hardware from someone.

N4CR said:
Don't be salty about your NVDA share price.
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You need to back off.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Lol.

You're moving the bar about incessantly. AMD has failed to innovate with ATi. They haven't made bad products, and they've even gotten the drivers more or less up to par, but they're not leading in terms of technology.

With respect to ray tracing hardware, I won't be upgrading my gaming desktop without it. Period.

I'm not in a hurry to upgrade, mind you, my 1080Ti is quite the respectable card. But its replacement will have ray tracing hardware from someone.



You need to back off.
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You claimed DXR was a 100% must have and I said why that was a shitty goalpost as it's only better in one game after half a year. You then deflected the discussion to amd somehow being at fault for not innovating (which is inaccurate as well). You moved the bar, not me - you can practically never admit to being wrong.

I also won't buy another GPU until RT is usable at a decent frame rate. DXR can suck it because it is a nothing feature right now. Like Rajas' 'HBCC' nothingburger on vega. Practically useless outside of one or two scenarios.
Not backing off, you practically never admit fault for Nvidia, hence why I wonder if a financial interest is what clouds such thought processes. I shit on both of them because it doesn't impact my bottom line.
It's okay to be wrong.
 
N4CR said:
You claimed DXR was a 100% must have and I said why that was a shitty goalpost as it's only better in one game after half a year.
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For me. Not for you or for anyone else, and specifically, for my gaming desktop. I'd love to replace my ultrabook with an AMD Zen 2 / Navi APU, if such a thing existed, for example.

N4CR said:
You then deflected the discussion to amd somehow being at fault for not innovating (which is inaccurate as well).
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They don't. They've been playing catch up for a decade. I say that as someone that once ran all AMD when AMD was the very best and were innovating.

N4CR said:
you can practically never admit to being wrong.
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I love to be proven wrong, but you'd better prove it. Don't throw fanboyism and accusations of the same and expect anyone to budge, especially me. I'll just call you out on it.

N4CR said:
I also won't buy another GPU until RT is usable at a decent frame rate. DXR can suck it because it is a nothing feature right now. Like Rajas' 'HBCC' nothingburger on vega. Practically useless outside of one or two scenarios.
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If you don't play games with RT or intend to play them within the lifetime of your intended GPU purchase, then skip it, if you can get a faster part for your money elsewhere. I'm not and have not advocated for different.

N4CR said:
Not backing off, you practically never admit fault for Nvidia
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I tend to praise innovation. When they make a screwup that matters, I'll call them on it.

N4CR said:
I shit on both of them because it doesn't impact my bottom line.
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My bottom line is performance.
 
Can these threads just die already. They've been Nonstop ever since after the 3870/4870 came out.
Now people just assume it's another monster like that was every generation without having a shred of legitimate evidence.
 
noko said:
Looks like Navi 12 parts were the plan that worked but renamed to Navi 10, pricing was laughable. The actual Navi 10 failed and was not viable at that or this time and the 40CU turned out to be beating the Vega 64 with lower power, beats the 2070 etc. making it worthy of the over $400 price.
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The table is fake: nothing, but an Adored fantasy

Navi 10 didn't "failed".

In fact, Radeon RX 5700 and Radeon RX 5700 XT are based on it.

noko said:
No way I believe AMD did not have a bigger Navi part in the works - it just failed is the bottom line or had too many issues (power looks to be the issue). If AMD had a higher end part I think the 5700xt and non would have been at a lower price point, sticking it to Nvidia but also getting more sells. When will AMD have Navi 2 out or big Navi? Will big Navi just go to Google is anyone's guess besides AMD.
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Navi 20 is still in the work and will be further progression to RDNA and away from GCN.

There is no evidence at all that it "failed" or "had too many issues".

That is nothing more than an FUD that Adored created to get people to see his videos.
 
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TheRookie said:
The table is fake: nothing, but an Adored fantasy

Navi 10 didn't "failed".

In fact, Radeon RX 5700 and Radeon RX 5700 XT are based on it.



Navi 20 is still in the work and will be further progression to RDNA and away from GCN.

There is no evidence at all that it "failed" or "had too many issues".

That is nothing more than an FUD that Adored created to get people to see his videos.
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When you are pushing 220w with 40 Cu's, 64 Cu's or more would probably be way over the top for power. All conjecture and either way we do not know. He may have been played for what ever reason, anyways his predictions from such a reliable source (para phasing his words) turned out to have way too many errors. Hopefully he learned his lesson and I think he lost the confidence in his reporting which will take some work to get back. His CPU conjecture while pricing, speeds etc. were off was halfway decent. Reasons for chiplets, having chiplets panned out.
 
noko said:
His CPU conjecture while pricing, speeds etc. were off was halfway decent. Reasons for chiplets, having chiplets panned out.
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:rolleyes: Yeah, he only got pricing, core counts, speeds, and dates wrong.

But sure he got that they used chiplets. Which no one could have figured out in December 2018, just After AMD revealed Epyc Rome With chiplets in November 2018. Oh, wait...
 
noko said:
When you are pushing 220w with 40 Cu's, 64 Cu's or more would probably be way over the top for power.
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Radeon RX 5700, which has 36 CUs, is likely faster than the Radeon RX Vega 64, which has 64 CUs.

That just shows you that you might not need that many CUs.

Furthermore, AMD has been unfazed in the past about pushing the TBP. (Radeon RX Vega 64 has a TBP of 295W and Radeon RX Vega 64 Liquid Ediion has a TBP of 345W)

noko said:
All conjecture and either way we do not know. He may have been played for what ever reason, anyways his predictions from such a reliable source (para phasing his words) turned out to have way too many errors. Hopefully he learned his in the lesson and I think he lost the confidence in his reporting which will take some work to get back. His CPU conjecture while pricing, speeds etc. were off was halfway decent. Reasons for chiplets, having chiplets panned out.
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If you haven't figured this out yet: Adored has no credibility.

He has turned his channel into a drama to attract as many viewers as possible.
 
TheRookie said:
Radeon RX 5700, which has 36 CUs, is likely faster than the Radeon RX Vega 64, which has 64 CUs.

That just shows you that you might not need that many CUs.

Furthermore, AMD has been unfazed in the past about pushing the TBP. (Radeon RX Vega 64 has a TBP of 295W and Radeon RX Vega 64 Liquid Ediion has a TBP of 345W)



If you haven't figured this out yet: Adored has no credibility.

He has turned his channel into a drama to attract as many viewers as possible.
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That's not my take on his channel, I will see if he gets smarter about what he reports.
 
noko said:
That's not my take on his channel, I will see if he gets smarter about what he reports.
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He just released a video called "Is Navi Good Enough?" where he bashed the Radeon RX 5700/XT, even though we don't even have a single review of either of those cards.

It's pretty clear that he's courting controversy to get viewers.
 
TheRookie said:
He just released a video called "Is Navi Good Enough?" where he bashed the Radeon RX 5700/XT, even though we don't even have a single review of either of those cards.

It's pretty clear that he's courting controversy to get viewers.
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TheRookie said:
If anyone haven't watched the video, don't bother.

It's just a rambling of an old geezer.
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What is it did you figure it out yet ?
I am still wondering how you don't watch stuff then make up your mind and write things that are not representative for things being mentioned in the video where your conclusion regardless of the material ends up being something like : AdoredTV sucks he fakes everything and he sucks .

It is getting old .........
 
Pieter3dnow said:
What is it did you figure it out yet ?
I am still wondering how you don't watch stuff then make up your mind and write things that are not representative for things being mentioned in the video where your conclusion regardless of the material ends up being something like : AdoredTV sucks he fakes everything and he sucks .

It is getting old .........
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Let me be clear: I did watched the video.

Not that I thought I would learn anything new.

Rather, I wanted to hear what excuses Adored had for his Navi “leaks” being completely wrong.

I was disappointed that it was not addressed in the video.
 
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