Deadjasper
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2001
- Messages
- 2,584
Linux without choices is a dead end.
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I think the Proton is more for Windows installed games and wrappers.
I do not think any windows games will run magically in Proton. That installing locally and using wrappers as Lutris is still as good as it gets besides for native Linux installers.
It would be another Windows in the end.Linux without choices is a dead end.
Perhaps I am stuck on 18.04 and my previous wine build and lutris install of WoW.
I upgraded to Mint 19.1 and had to roll back to 18.3 due to multiple problems. At this point I plan to stick with 18.3 on my main rig and update nothing as long as there are no issues. I may play around with other distros / versions on a secondary computer.
What kind of issues did you have?
I'm still on 18.3 on both my desktop and laptop, and am thinking about upgrading them in the not too distant future.
My fiance's machine is on 19.1, bit that was a necessity due to it being a Ryzen 5 2400G, so it needed some more recent packages to function.
Finally found a frustration with Linux. I cannot seem to get HBO Go streaming to work in any browser. The closest has been Firefox, but the video is super choppy. I really like being able to stream GoT and other movies while doing other things on my main screen
Linux is getting more frustrating as time goes forward for me.
Windows does have Windows subsystem for Linux now!Well, just to be clear, you are trying to run a game native to Windows thorough a series of instruction wrappers in an operating system that is not windows.
Rather than be frustrated when it doesn't work you should be pleasantly surprised when it does.
The assumption ought to be that a hack like this won't work well.
Don't hold it against Linux. Linux works great when you - you know - run native Linux software
How well do Linux binaries run under Windows?
Windows does have Windows subsystem for Linux now!
Linux has actually been quite easy to run once it is all set up/configured, for me. I found out that (at least with snaps) you can do a search but doing $ snap find "search terms", which makes finding things and instaling them much easier. I do wish it was that easy with all applications, but even in windows you had to go to the site, download the install file, and run the installer. With Linux you go find the repository, add the repository, update, install, and done. At least in Linux I do not need to make sure i pay attention during the install process, because the installer might try to sneak in a toolbar, or antivirus software, etc. Other than adding new software, the day to day stuff is just as easy in Linux as it was in Windows. Web browsing/other web based activities ... pretty much the same. Music/video playing... different apps, but otherwise the same.
That said, up until now I have only done games that natively work through Steam. I actually have a few game .exe files (thanks GOG) that I am debating on trying to get working, now that I have a nicer video card for it, as well as a monitor. I had previously only remoted into this box and ran it headless.
Does anyone have a link to a good "Installing Windows Games for Dummies" guide? I tried this about 6 or 7 years ago on Mint, and it did not go well (and i ended up just going back to Windows). Figuring this out, as well as figuring out/playing with Conky to get this "conky-circles" installed and set up how I want it, are my current two "downtime" goals.
Windows does have Windows subsystem for Linux now!
Linux has actually been quite easy to run once it is all set up/configured, for me. I found out that (at least with snaps) you can do a search but doing $ snap find "search terms", which makes finding things and instaling them much easier. I do wish it was that easy with all applications, but even in windows you had to go to the site, download the install file, and run the installer. With Linux you go find the repository, add the repository, update, install, and done. At least in Linux I do not need to make sure i pay attention during the install process, because the installer might try to sneak in a toolbar, or antivirus software, etc. Other than adding new software, the day to day stuff is just as easy in Linux as it was in Windows. Web browsing/other web based activities ... pretty much the same. Music/video playing... different apps, but otherwise the same.
That said, up until now I have only done games that natively work through Steam. I actually have a few game .exe files (thanks GOG) that I am debating on trying to get working, now that I have a nicer video card for it, as well as a monitor. I had previously only remoted into this box and ran it headless.
Does anyone have a link to a good "Installing Windows Games for Dummies" guide? I tried this about 6 or 7 years ago on Mint, and it did not go well (and i ended up just going back to Windows). Figuring this out, as well as figuring out/playing with Conky to get this "conky-circles" installed and set up how I want it, are my current two "downtime" goals.
I get snaps is just another fragmentation from the unified package manager, but any other reason for the hate? My understanding was snaps package together all of the library files and keep them together to simplify updates, as well as running the package in a sandbox.I have to admit, I HATE snaps with a passion.
One of the biggest benefits of Linux is the unified package manager. Having a parallel system like snaps ruins everything.
It will be a cold day in hell before I ever contaminate any of my systems with snaps.
IMHO Snaps is the wost thing to happen to Linux in a LONG time. Worse even than SystemD and netplan.
I get snaps is just another fragmentation from the unified package manager, but any other reason for the hate? My understanding was snaps package together all of the library files and keep them together to simplify updates.
I used it for getting PLEX installed (think it was actually suggested early on in this thread), and i also liked the ability to do the "find" to find packages i am looking for. I do not think Xubuntu has Synaptic installed by default, would you recommend installing that over just using the functionality in snaps? Or is there an easier way to search from the command line to find an app (including ones I may not have the repository added for)?
Actually it was Witcher 3 that I was wanting to run/install. Grabbed it on GOG when they dropped it to $14.
Also, currently running Xubuntu 18.04. I have KDE (and soon to try out Deepin) on other machines, but like the simplicity and lack of resource usage XFCE provides.
Will look into DXVK.
I'd argue the biggest problem with Linux when it comes to gaming is hardware compatibility.
It is the nature of Linux (with a few notable exceptions like the Nvidia binary driver) for the open source driver developers to support new hardware over time.
In gaming we often want the greatest fastest hardware to work on day 1.
I built a Ryzen 5 2400G system for my Fiance last summer. It still isn't running quite right in Linux, and neither the Ryzen CPU or Vega GPU architectures are particularly new at this point...
My concern is more of on of security. Windows - as opposed to it's dicey past - is actually a pretty secure OS today. The reason people get "pwned" is usually due to 3rd party software that isn't kept up to date.
With an integrated package manager that keeps every single package up to date you never have this problem.
Any fragmentation of this process (including compiling and installing from source or binary distribution blobs) is detrimental to the overall goal of keeping a system up to date.
It is also an inefficiency.
There is a reason a windows install feels tight on a 64 or even 128gb SSD whereas my entire Linux install including all the software I use clocks in at what, 1-2GB?
Duplicating every single dependency for every installed piece of software is horrifically inefficient. That, and now you are depending on software providers who aren't even very good at patching their own code, to make sure all of the dependencies are secure and up to date as well.
I think the concept of Snaps (and other similar efforts like Flatpak and Appimage) are the worst thing to happen to Linux in the 20 years I've been using it.
As far as installing and searching for software goes, I don't ever use any of the GUI tools.
From console:
Then, of course, any time you want to run updates:
- sudo apt update #make sure your sources are up to date
- sudo apt-cache search <string> #find the package you want to install
- sudo apt install <package name> #install the package once you find it
- sudo apt update #make sure your sources are up to date
- sudo apt upgrade #upgrade all installed packages
Or
- sudo apt dist-upgrade #upgrade all packages, including significant and dangerous ones which might break something.
Then of course followed by:
- sudo apt autoremove #automatically remove old dependencies that are no longer needed.
Of course, if you need to filter the output of any command further, just run:
<Command> | grep -i <keyword>
Dead simple and does the job better than any of the GUI tools like synaptic or software manager.
I've never liked the GUI tools. Not even the network settings in the task bar. I prefer to edit the config text files. It is so much more efficient.
I think the concept of Snaps (and other similar efforts like Flatpak and Appimage) are the worst thing to happen to Linux in the 20 years I've been using it.
Agreed. There was a semi legit argument a few years ago that big name software companies wouldn't touch Linux because of dependency issues... being worried their big expensive software would fail every time a Linux user updated a dependent library that they hadn't tested and cost them support monies. The work around seemed to be give them away to package libraries and keep them static. Of course the big names are NOT coming because they have been offered flat pak. Instead we get people installing software like VLC via packs which can be much better handled by a package manager. On top of that almost all the big name software projects out there today are MUCH better at dealing with standard APIs and Libraries. I haven't had a API or Library update bork any of my software in ages.
So I agree imo packs solve an issue that no longer exists... if it ever really did.
You've completely lost me...
how are unified packages that can work across any distro (that supports those packages) a bad thing?
In the case of snaps they're self-contained sandboxes of software that auto-update...
So again...how are they a bad thing?
Right distro for the right job. The issue there isn't Linux.... AMD had Raven Ridge support out day one. (weeks before actually). They have likewise done the same for every CPU and GPU for a few years now, Intel is perhaps even better at that... we just don't notice as much as CPUs tend to just work even if they aren't optimal.
The issue is a distro that is locked to an older kernel and graphics stack. (basically everything that isn't rolling).
IMO a non rolling distro is 100% the wrong distro for gamers and people with cutting edge hardware. (even if cutting edge means a cheapo GPU.. lol I have a couple 2200g systems now) If you buy a brand new machine with hardware only post release a few days.... you will have issues with Linux AND windows trying to just install and go. Under windows your going to have to go and download all the latest drivers, and depending on what hardware it is perhaps even download drivers first with a working machine to use at install if windows can't get a network up. So ya installing a 6 month old copy of Ubuntu is going to give you issues as well.
If your looking for easy of use... and stability. As well as cutting edge hardware support run Manjaro. Its rolling with 2 layers of testing... meaning unlike some pure development aimed rolling distros like Arch proper or Tumbleweed you get packages 2-6 weeks from their GIT uploads. Things are rock solid stable... but you will always be on the latest kernel, and in general things like the MESA graphics stacks will be just behind the absolute latest.
It's not that hard to get the latest packages even if you are on a non-rolling distro.
I'm running the latest upstream kernel Mint 19.1 on that Ryzen APU, and it still occasionally hard freezes. It's gotten much better than it was when I first built it, bit even now a year after the 2400G launched, more than two years after the underlying Zen architecture launched and almost two years after the underlying Vega architecture launched, hardware support still is not solid.
Linux software was already Linux software and it did and does work across distros. That was never an issue. If you installed VLC from source on any distro it worked. There is zero need to package it up with libraries already installed properly on your system.
Consider Electron.... most people say its terrible. Its bloat. Its pointless and stupid... to repackage and entire web browser backend for every electron app. The packs are the exact same idea and everyone considers that great ?
BTW I do like Electron for specific applications that need to work across Operating Systems. If Flat Paks or app images or whatever worked on Mac BSD and Linux... I would say they make sense for some software. But across distros is not nor has it ever been a problem.
If you install 20 pak packages on your Linux system you likely are installing the same handful of libraries 20 times. Its wasteful and stupid imo. As stupid as it would be to convert major chunks of your software to electron packages.
Its strange I have heard that about Ubuntu based distros for some reason. I always just assumed it was people running kernels older then 4.19 or something. But clearly as you say that isn't the only issue. I have built 3 2200g systems at this point .... all running Manjaro and have run into zero issues. 2 are on Asus board and one (the one I'm on now) is on a gigabyte board. Ya if its not kernel or mesa related... I wonder if its some other semi common ryzen board part that is causing the stability issues.
I get that except the point is that those libraries may break other things or the version you need isn't part of a distro. Look at an LTS system. Snaps are wonderful there for certain things because all the dependencies are self-contained so you can update software without fear of the LTS library version. I know one application right off the bat that would be perfect for a Snap - Android Studio. It needs specific versions of libraries to function. Wrong version...it blows up. I had that problem for a long time on Arch back when I was doing my firewall app. Sure I can block that in the pacman.conf but if I want to continue to update everything on my my rolling release distro and not break Android Studio I'd rather have Android Studio as a Snap.
Things like Snaps are not the be all, end all issue of package distribution and I don't think any universal package will ever take full command on Linux. I also don't want everything to be a Snap/Flatpak/Appimage but certain things are better if they're in a format like that especially in certain circumstances and they certainly aren't the "worst thing to happen to Linux in 20 years".
I get that except the point is that those libraries may break other things or the version you need isn't part of a distro. Look at an LTS system. Snaps are wonderful there for certain things because all the dependencies are self-contained so you can update software without fear of the LTS library version. I know one application right off the bat that would be perfect for a Snap - Android Studio. It needs specific versions of libraries to function. Wrong version...it blows up. I had that problem for a long time on Arch back when I was doing my firewall app. Sure I can block that in the pacman.conf but if I want to continue to update everything on my my rolling release distro and not break Android Studio I'd rather have Android Studio as a Snap.
Things like Snaps are not the be all, end all issue of package distribution and I don't think any universal package will ever take full command on Linux. I also don't want everything to be a Snap/Flatpak/Appimage but certain things are better if they're in a format like that especially in certain circumstances and they certainly aren't the "worst thing to happen to Linux in 20 years".
That is weird.
I'd switch her system over to Manjaro, but she really seems to like the Cinnamon desktop, and I refer to keep all of my systems on the Debian base for easier management.
That and the bleeding edge concept kind of goes against my Linux approach in later years. I did that back in the day with Gentoo, but it was always breaking.
These days I strongly prefer mature tested and stable systems.
My personal desktop and laptop are still running Mint 18.2. I'm only just now upgrading all of my old Ubuntu 14.04 LTS servers to 16.04 LTS since 14.04 is about to become u supported.
I am using Manjaro on one of my other machines, and i enjoy it quite a bit (Using KDE). I also just put Deepin on a laptop the kids use, but mainly for me to test out. It looks pretty nice, and i like the control panel functionality.... but i will likely be redoing it as a Manjaro (debating on keeping Deepin or going with a different DE) install soon.
I wonder if there are any good, up to date, rolling releases that are Apt based?
Kids + laptop + rolling release... sounds like a recipe for disaster . Would recommend putting all home folders on a separate partition if you do it, otherwise, I'd recommend a different distro. As you can get Deepin on Fedora, that might be worth a try, or load Deepin on Ubuntu LTS. [note, I'm cuing off of 'kids use', where a stable system would be preferable over a 'bleeding edge' up to date system]
None that I know of, and I'd like to know too if one exists. I'm pretty set on Fedora now (and taking the RHCSA next week), but a 'rolling Debian / Ubuntu' would certainly be of interest as that's the development target for most Linux gaming.
[note about Manjaro: I want to love this distro, but I find that it's not as well set up out of the box as Ubuntu / Fedora, and their refusal to sign their kernels is maddening; that, and you're pretty much guaranteed that at some point you're going to get a system-breaking update or wind up in dependency hell, and I take issue with systems that can become unusable all on their own; for this reason, I've started tracking back to straight Ubuntu LTS or RHEL installations and then customizing versus installing a pre-customized distro]
Manjaro is not bleeding edge. Its rolling with 2 buffer releases. Arch does do actual testing they don't just link packages to their GIT archives. Consider this windows unstable developer ring..... Manjaro picks those Arch Stable packages and puts them in their Unstable repos... Call that windows testing beta ring. From their Manjaro rolls thosse packages to their standard stable release.
Not signing the kernel is a good thing. Turn that stupid secure boot BS off.
I wonder if there are any good, up to date, rolling releases that are Apt based?