Navi Rumors

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BTW. Thanks for RTX cards used 1080/Vega can be had for much less than before. People see no improvement but still upgrade and thins makes users getting still great products from used market to benefit from this release.

I myself bought like 6 new cards in all my graphics card buying history. HD3850 to quickly return it and get 8800GS, then GTX 460Ti, then GTX 660 to quickly sell it and get HD7950 and now RTX 2070. So far I do not plan to sell it before RTX 30x0 series comes out. Rest of my cards that I owned were second hand and represented much better value than any of the new cards.
If I was in financial situation to nitty pick about 100$ I then wouldn't care less for new GPU prices, let alone these which will come in few month.

And frankly this second hand card market is probably why AMD have hard time selling products despite being cheaper. Especially when older used GPU have less power consumption it kinda defeats purpose of getting new one. This is another reason why you cannot be 2 years behind in technology and expect to have good sales despite having better performance/price.

Now lets think about Navi launch: will there be used RTX cards on the market? or 1080Ti cards?
Would I get Navi if used RTX 2070 was cheaper, still have 2 years warranty and hardware DXR and DLSS? Hell no!
I wouldn't get new 2070 but something used or still use 980Ti which was sufficient for my needs if not gimmicky features that I have just to have it. And as unreasonable as it sounds those are the reason why people get cards with new DirectX versions as soon as they are released despite always support for these new features takes years. DXR is nothing new here. Where are my jaw dropping DirectX 12 games anyway? How many yeard DX10 remained irrelevant? So much DX11 replaced it and it took years to become must have.

Of course support for all new APIs did not always come at the same time. It is not by any means deal breaker but always caused better sales of cards that did support these APIs irrespectively of support from software.
 
Fair enough...I side-graded and down-graded to try new things. Ended up getting a lower res high refresh monitor instead of using a 40" 4K TV after seeing what the 2080Ti cost. The cost to drive 4K is still high.
1080p or 1440p can be used on 2160p display just fine.
Up-scaling blur is maybe not ideal but it is also something you forget is even there after few minutes of game play.

I myself even had 2080Ti pre-ordered but shop delayed it for so long I had enough time to come to my senses. Only because I can afford it doesn't mean it make any sense to pay more than twice for slightly sharper image in some silly games. 500$ is already a lot for GPU
 
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So going by that the VII should have been $550.
Maybe if it was not using HBM2 that could have been a decent price.
The memory speed, size and the floating point make the card somewhat special.
You can question whether this is a gaming card to begin with .....
 
Instead of breaking even, AMD decided to price it on performance compared to the 2080 and make some more money this go around. They are selling quite a few.

It almost makes you wonder if Nvidia did them a favor by pricing their cards so high. A reasonably priced 2070 at $449 and a 2080 at $599 would have made a $699 Radeon VII seem excessive, but I don't think AMD would make money on a $549-599 Radeon VII based on the BOM.
 
It almost makes you wonder if Nvidia did them a favor by pricing their cards so high. A reasonably priced 2070 at $449 and a 2080 at $599 would have made a $699 Radeon VII seem excessive, but I don't think AMD would make money on a $549-599 Radeon VII based on the BOM.
Increase of GPU prices is very good for both NV and AMD and also Intel which is going to wipe the floor with competition in 2020 :)

So going by that the VII should have been $550.
Half the price of Radeon VII was 16GB of fast HBM2 memory
This makes not a lot room left to earn a lot of money per card sold. But that wasn't even their intention.
It is low volume product released to remain relevant in high-end and on benchmark charts.
 
I think Radeon VII achieved it's goal. In that AMD has a product that can handle 4K, when they didn't before.

The people that were going to buy it probably did for their own reasons, and 4K is a pretty small market even though it's a hot buzzword.

Like you say, it was an effort to stay relevant on the high-end, and that worked I think.
 
Increase of GPU prices is very good for both NV and AMD and also Intel which is going to wipe the floor with competition in 2020 :)

It's a double edged sword. Sure it is good for their bottom line and making money (which is the point of the corporation...I'm pro-business...I get it). But the other hand is that if you're pricing key parts out of the realm of what one is willing to pay, you're going to lose customers. Even though I can afford a 2080Ti, I am not going to pay $1200 for a video card. I had a 1080Ti that I paid full price for, but I won't be purchasing a 2080Ti simply due to the price, and I'm a lost repeat customer. When there's a $500 difference between generations, it should make the consumer question the need for the product. I mean I can suffer with a PS4 Pro or XB1X for $500 or less if I just need a video game fix and pocket the $1500 difference in building a high end computer for gaming.
 
It's a double edged sword. Sure it is good for their bottom line and making money (which is the point of the corporation...I'm pro-business...I get it). But the other hand is that if you're pricing key parts out of the realm of what one is willing to pay, you're going to lose customers. Even though I can afford a 2080Ti, I am not going to pay $1200 for a video card. I had a 1080Ti that I paid full price for, but I won't be purchasing a 2080Ti simply due to the price, and I'm a lost repeat customer. When there's a $500 difference between generations, it should make the consumer question the need for the product. I mean I can suffer with a PS4 Pro or XB1X for $500 or less if I just need a video game fix and pocket the $1500 difference in building a high end computer for gaming.
The name change already happened. Nvidia redefined prices and next time around you will still have x070 for 500$, x080 for 800$ and x080Ti for >1000$
It is sad and for us simply bad. But it happened, it is done. Jensen greed won :cry: I hope that now at least he is happy :cry::cry: (probably now he want even more though :sick:)

Next generation will be faster. There is no more very large RTX stuff to add to the core and any subsequent tensor core and RT core improvements will be gradual and die space taken very small in comparison. Rasterization performance improvement withing given budget of eg. 700$ will have to wait some more time. It is not the end of the world. Those are the heart breaking 1st world problems we have to endure :ROFLMAO:
 
It almost makes you wonder if Nvidia did them a favor by pricing their cards so high. A reasonably priced 2070 at $449 and a 2080 at $599 would have made a $699 Radeon VII seem excessive, but I don't think AMD would make money on a $549-599 Radeon VII based on the BOM.
Instead of breaking even, AMD decided to price it on performance compared to the 2080 and make some more money this go around. They are selling quite a few.
I have some mixed feelings about this. The Radeon VII was listed at several places (Netherlands) above 800 Euro even in Germany. I would even dare to say if that is the case for the whole of Europe they just sold a lot of 2080 because believe it or not they were cheaper.
The cheapest Radeon VII I have seen is still 769 Euro.
 
I have some mixed feelings about this. The Radeon VII was listed at several places (Netherlands) above 800 Euro even in Germany. I would even dare to say if that is the case for the whole of Europe they just sold a lot of 2080 because believe it or not they were cheaper.
The cheapest Radeon VII I have seen is still 769 Euro.

Guess I am biased since I'm from the states, but you are right that I didn't take in account the higher prices in Europe. Prices in AUS are outrageous as well.
 
Hopefully guys in charge of setting Navi price do not have attitude: "we do not support DXR acceleration so let's completely ignore it " or it will be sad to watch their market share falling even more :(
The cards Navi will be competing with do not have DRX or they do and it is a gimmick feature at their price point. Navi will be very competitive in DX12 and Vulcan, if not excel, and probably have more RAM for the $ with competitive power draw. Nvidia will have no advantages in this segment, the largest of enthusiast GPU's, except their brand name.
 
The cards Navi will be competing with do not have DRX or they do and it is a gimmick feature at their price point. Navi will be very competitive in DX12 and Vulcan, if not excel, and probably have more RAM for the $ with competitive power draw. Nvidia will have no advantages in this segment, the largest of enthusiast GPU's, except their brand name.
most competitive gpu for excel is intel ;)
 
AdoredTV follows up on Navi and the speculation surrounding it:



I have to file this under LMAO!

So AMD is supposed to release a GPU that 20% faster than the GeForce RTX 2080 for $430.

You have remember that GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is 23% faster than the GeForce RTX 2080.

So, according to AdoredTV, AMD is going to release a GPU that's almost as fast as the GeForce RTX 2080 Ti for $430.

I want to tell Jim: Just keep digging that hole!
 
I have to file this under LMAO!

So AMD is supposed to release a GPU that 20% faster than the GeForce RTX 2080 for $430.

You have remember that GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is 23% faster than the GeForce RTX 2080.

So, according to AdoredTV, AMD is going to release a GPU that's almost as fast as the GeForce RTX 2080 Ti for $430.

I want to tell Jim: Just keep digging that hole!

That hole is just as open for you as well with all your rhetoric when it comes to him.
 
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The fact that Navi is taking so long is great news for AdoredTV.
 
Yes.

He can keep making fake leaks videos to get more views.
Well for the Zen stuff Kyle Bennett said he was pretty close to what he heard.

For you to claim it is fake can you post valid information to show otherwise. With all rumours it is the same until the product is officially released it is unknown.

What is a surprise is that there more Navi is coming this year even beyond the 3 cards.
 
Well for the Zen stuff Kyle Bennett said he was pretty close to what he heard.

“Close” can have all sorts of meanings.

You drove to the wrong park, but in the right city.

You’re “close” to the right place, but none of your friends are there.
 
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For you to claim it is fake can you post valid information to show otherwise. With all rumours it is the same until the product is officially released it is unknown.

I think skepticism is warranted. The video opens with stating that he has no real information. While I appreciate that disclosure, it makes it rather tough to think it's anything other than One Man's Dream or just an attempt to get some clicks/views.
 
I have to file this under LMAO!

So AMD is supposed to release a GPU that 20% faster than the GeForce RTX 2080 for $430.

You have remember that GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is 23% faster than the GeForce RTX 2080.

So, according to AdoredTV, AMD is going to release a GPU that's almost as fast as the GeForce RTX 2080 Ti for $430.

I want to tell Jim: Just keep digging that hole!

He's the pied piper to all the AMD lemmings that jump over the cliff every time he makes a new video.
 
Mid-size Navi will be Vega 56 replacement, much like Mid-size Polaris was the 390 replacement. That's out this year, fed by 256-bit GDDR6.

Large Navi will probably be a little faster than Radeon VII, but unless they can pull some miracle strings with HBM2, that price will stay at $700, or drop to $650. You need all four stacks to feed the VII, so a faster version means it will still need four stacks. And unless Navi is a sea-change in performance/clock, irt's going to require the same or more die space as the VII (already on 7nm process), so it will be expensive.

Vega was able to get below $500 because they used two stacks. Hitting $430 with four stacks is fucking impossible.
 
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For you to claim it is fake can you post valid information to show otherwise. With all rumours it is the same until the product is officially released it is unknown.

What is a surprise is that there more Navi is coming this year even beyond the 3 cards.

Look at the TDP.

Let’s supposed that the rumors are true...

From the TDP, Navi would have to be significantly more power efficient than Touring.

We already know that Vega isn’t anywhere close to being as efficient as Turing.

AMD would have to pull a rabbit out of a hat to achieve that
 
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I have to file this under LMAO!

So AMD is supposed to release a GPU that 20% faster than the GeForce RTX 2080 for $430.

You have remember that GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is 23% faster than the GeForce RTX 2080.

So, according to AdoredTV, AMD is going to release a GPU that's almost as fast as the GeForce RTX 2080 Ti for $430.

I want to tell Jim: Just keep digging that hole!

I don't get that kind of reasoning from Adored, even if AMD has a card like that, AMD will not price it at $430, probably more like current R7 pricing ;if not, slightly above R7 pricing. Why severely undercut Nvidia when you can slightly undercut them, make more money and still gain shares.
 
Look at the TDP.

Let’s supposed that the rumors are true...

From the TDP, Navi would have to be significantly more power efficient than Touring.

We already know that Vega isn’t anywhere close to being as efficient as Turing.

AMD would have to pull a rabbit out of a hat to achieve that

Assuming things will remain the same as a previous generation can be your undoing. It's also a rumor and fine to have to some healthy skepticism as well and sometimes you get lucky in the engineering world and a product turns out far better then you expect. Pascal turned out far better then Nvidia expected and left them in a bind for the Turning series and is one of the main reasons it has made the new cards look poor in comparison as well as the price demanded for them.
 
Assuming things will remain the same as a previous generation can be your undoing. It's also a rumor and fine to have to some healthy skepticism as well and sometimes you get lucky in the engineering world and a product turns out far better then you expect. Pascal turned out far better then Nvidia expected and left them in a bind for the Turning series and is one of the main reasons it has made the new cards look poor in comparison as well as the price demanded for them.

Navi is just the next evolution of GCN.

The efficiency gain implied in the video is implausible.
 
Navi is just the next evolution of GCN.

The efficiency gain implied in the video is implausible.

If it's engineered the same way Raja and company had it in Vega then sure you would likely be right, perhaps they made a larger change then you know. If we always go by the naysayers then we all know Zen would not have competed as well as it has with Intel, just a impossible jump for them to make in one generation was the common statement. Yet in the end we have seen how that has not been the case and in fact Zen was very close to what Intel had except in clock speed. But at least he provides his reasons why he thinks the way he does about a unreleased product, while your not offering anything other then just how you feel. I honestly think you let your hatred of him bias your thinking quite a bit.
 
If it's engineered the same way Raja and company had it in Vega then sure you would likely be right, perhaps they made a larger change then you know. If we always go by the naysayers then we all know Zen would not have competed as well as it has with Intel, just a impossible jump for them to make in one generation was the common statement. Yet in the end we have seen how that has not been the case and in fact Zen was very close to what Intel had except in clock speed. But at least he provides his reasons why he thinks the way he does about a unreleased product, while your not offering anything other then just how you feel. I honestly think you let your hatred of him bias your thinking quite a bit.

Zen isn’t an evolution of Bulldozer.

It’s a clean design.

That’s a huge difference.

Also, NVIDIA hasn’t been stuck on the same architecture for the past 3-4 years.
 
I don't get that kind of reasoning from Adored, even if AMD has a card like that, AMD will not price it at $430, probably more like current R7 pricing ;if not, slightly above R7 pricing. Why severely undercut Nvidia when you can slightly undercut them, make more money and still gain shares.

What do you expect?

AdoredTV is king of clickbate videos.
 
Look at the TDP.

Let’s supposed that the rumors are true...

From the TDP, Navi would have to be significantly more power efficient than Touring.

We already know that Vega isn’t anywhere close to being as efficient as Turing.

AMD would have to pull a rabbit out of a hat to achieve that

No the TDP is nothing special
73385030-c770-4c7c-baa7-002e05afff6d.jpg


Leave the density alone and the performance. That makes the power efficiency the leading question vs 14nm TSMC.

Do the mathematics double the TDP on 14nm and suddenly where has all the magic gone?
You can do the rest of the math as well and you will find out that you missed the ball completely.

Navi can only exist on 7nm because of the manufacturing characteristics and would never function on 14nm as a viable product (performance wise)(or 12nm for that matter).

The crux for Navi and their prices lies in where the whole process allows smaller dies and maybe some other synergy we don't know about yet which would allow this to work this way.
 
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He's the pied piper to all the AMD lemmings that jump over the cliff every time he makes a new video.
Attack the messenger ignore the message :).
I think skepticism is warranted. The video opens with stating that he has no real information. While I appreciate that disclosure, it makes it rather tough to think it's anything other than One Man's Dream or just an attempt to get some clicks/views.

What more do you need when then title says speculation?
If you and others ignore that then what is there to go on to begin with?

The real information would be where AdoredTV has final specs launch date and confirmation of everything from multiple sources.
If things were that easy he would not be the only one in showing what their sources have told them.

Again forthcoming other information I have not heard a single thing where all of this is disputed. Beside some one yelling that the TDP does not make sense.
 
I have to file this under LMAO!

So AMD is supposed to release a GPU that 20% faster than the GeForce RTX 2080 for $430.

You have remember that GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is 23% faster than the GeForce RTX 2080.

So, according to AdoredTV, AMD is going to release a GPU that's almost as fast as the GeForce RTX 2080 Ti for $430.

I want to tell Jim: Just keep digging that hole!

Absolute terrible speculation from Adored TV there. There might be one product in that lineup that could resemble what Navi is but that has got to be the stupidest segmentation strategy I have ever seen when chip development cost are at a all time high.

Why would AMD need two separate chips for a 64cu part and a 56cu part. That is literally throwing money in the garbage when either of chips could cover the same segment with clocks or disabling chips.

All these chips are way to close together in terms of components which leads to poor segmentation and cannibalization of sales from buyer confusion.

This is the result of performance being way to close to one another which makes buyer confused on what chip they should buy.

Look at the Polaris 10, Polaris 11 and Vega and there's a true delineation in performance because the chips have 16 cu, 36 CU and 64 Cu with the cut down versions having between 10 and 15% cu's cut off to make the salvage part. With the lineup Adored listed, we have parts that consist of chips that have 64, 56 and 40 CU which is awful for segmentation purposes and wasteful for R and D. That is they could cover, the 56 and 64 Cu market with one chip and target the 40-32 cu market with another and make a 16-20 Cu chip for the low end market if they were indeed capable of launching 3 chips at once.

It's ridiculous that navi 12 would cover with one chip, designs from 40 Cu to 15 CU. Near the bottom end your being extremely wasteful because your putting a much larger chip than you need to cover something as much volume as a integrated graphic solution.

A thing that certainly doesn't make sense is the navi 10 and Navi 20. There is only a 8 cu difference between the cards, but there is a 30 percent gap in performance but a 25% increase in power consumption. How is a 8 more cu, which is only 14% more CU supposed to generate 30% more performance, you can't say clocks because power consumption is only going up 25%. Increasing clocks increase power consumption disproportionaly compared to performance, and thus will certainly decrease the performance per watt, which has been a hallmark weakness for AMD cards. This makes even less sense when you consider 56 and 64 Cu's parts performance almost the same at the same clocks. As in 3% difference in performance. AMD is not going to get this 30% more performance from only 8 CUs, they will need to increase clocks 30-40% on the the flagship compered to the step down to get that much performance. And this will lead to more than a 25% increase in power consumption. Memory bandwidth is going to play a factor in holding back performance unless they stack 4 stacks of HBM2 which doesn't make sense at the price point.

https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3053-vega-64-vs-vega-56-clock-for-clock-shader-differences
 
I have to file this under LMAO!

So AMD is supposed to release a GPU that 20% faster than the GeForce RTX 2080 for $430.

You have remember that GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is 23% faster than the GeForce RTX 2080.

So, according to AdoredTV, AMD is going to release a GPU that's almost as fast as the GeForce RTX 2080 Ti for $430.

I want to tell Jim: Just keep digging that hole!
An AMD card almost as fast as 2080ti @ $430 is just too ridiculous to be believed. For one thing, AMD are not stupid. They could easily sell such a card for $600 and it would still fly off the shelves faster than they could supply them. Anyone who believes a $430 card at near 2080ti performance has a poor grasp on reality.
 
No the TDP is nothing special
View attachment 155804

Leave the density alone and the performance. That makes the power efficiency the leading question vs 14nm TSMC.

Do the mathematics double the TDP on 14nm and suddenly where has all the magic gone?
You can do the rest of the math as well and you will find out that you missed the ball completely.

Navi can only exist on 7nm because of the manufacturing characteristics and would never function on 14nm as a viable product (performance wise)(or 12nm for that matter).

The crux for Navi and their prices lies in where the whole process allows smaller dies and maybe some other synergy we don't know about yet which would allow this to work this way.

AMD would sure have to pull a rabbit out of a hat if what the video is claiming comes to pass.

Navi on 7nm would have to be almost twice as efficient as Vega on 7nm
 
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