Controversial Game Pulled by Steam after Outcry

Vega said:
I wouldn't play it, but people are definitely over-reacting. Half the games ever made involve killing someone. Are you saying being raped is worse than being murdered?

This just shows the huge hypocrisy of the left. Millions of REAL people are raped in the world (especially from one religion), yet two shits isn't given. But the left also thinks "thought crimes" are worse than real crimes.
Click to expand...
This is not a problem for "the left" or for "the right." It's a problem for human beings.

I could make the stance that media encouraging murder is less likely to embolden people to kill than media encouraging rape is to embolden almost-rapists to cross that line, but it would be a pointless argument - games with murder in them isn't what we're discussing here.

If we're gonna start rationalizing shitty behavior just because other types of shitty behavior exist, then there's no point in any discussion at all.
 
Jagger100 said:
No it just makes armchair activists look vapid.

If it is what I assume it is, it should be kicked off Steam, though.
Click to expand...
Well, in spite of the way our always-connected, instant-gratification life often makes us feel, a person's sphere of influence is only practically so large. Most people actually can't dedicate the time or resources to ending religious rape in the middle east - that doesn't mean they don't have a right to their opinion that it should end.

Most people can, however, sign an online petition discouraging a massive publisher from bringing a game that glorifies rape to market.

I don't think I'm in an uncommon position when I say that if you can work in any capacity to stop rape or the glorification thereof, ya should.
 
VanGoghComplex said:
This is not a problem for "the left" or for "the right." It's a problem for human beings.

I could make the stance that media encouraging murder is less likely to embolden people to kill than media encouraging rape is to embolden almost-rapists to cross that line, but it would be a pointless argument - games with murder in them isn't what we're discussing here.

If we're gonna start rationalizing shitty behavior just because other types of shitty behavior exist, then there's no point in any discussion at all.
Click to expand...

You actually think a crappy obscure rape fantasy video game is going to be the deciding factor if someone is going to rape or not in real life? lol.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180116131317.htm

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170308081057.htm

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/03/180314102008.htm
 
Vega said:
You actually think a crappy obscure rape fantasy video game is going to be the deciding factor if someone is going to rape or not in real life? lol.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180116131317.htm

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170308081057.htm

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/03/180314102008.htm
Click to expand...
Not that I think either hypothetical is very likely to begin with, but yes: I believe potential rapists are more likely to be emboldened by media glorifying rape, than I believe Call of Duty makes murderers.

Again though, it's non-sequitur. Games that glorify rape shouldn't be made or published or played. Yes I'm aware that's a line Steam crossed a long time ago, but that didn't make it suddenly okay.
 
Vega said:
I wouldn't play it, but people are definitely over-reacting. Half the games ever made involve killing someone. Are you saying being raped is worse than being murdered?

This just shows the huge hypocrisy of the left. Millions of REAL people are raped in the world (especially from one religion), yet two shits isn't given. But the left also thinks "thought crimes" are worse than real crimes.
Click to expand...


Yes... yes I am saying for the victim and the lifetime of torment they get to live through that being killed isn't as hurtful or painful as being raped. I will stand by that fully. When someone is raped they are destroyed and left to live their life trying to pick up the pieces over and over again. When they are killed it's done.
 
Grimlaking said:
Yes... yes I am saying for the victim and the lifetime of torment they get to live through that being killed isn't as hurtful or painful as being raped. I will stand by that fully. When someone is raped they are destroyed and left to live their life trying to pick up the pieces over and over again. When they are killed it's done.
Click to expand...

While I understand what you are saying, it is also absolutely subjective, and completely untestable (given that one side is dead). We have sanitized death in modern media, reality is not clean, pretty or painless, death can take a long time and be incredibly painful. Ultimately one has a chance to recover, and the other does not.

Society has already by in large made the decision of rape v. death. When rape was punished by the death penalty, most rapes ended in murder, this was one of the key issues that caused a change in the criminal codes around the world. We collectively decided it was better to live then die.

This reaction to a shitty, half baked, no name game, is a problem. It's stupid, petty and self defeating. The creators wanted this controversy because it gave them massive publicity, on an already niche product, they will be more financially successful because of this outrage. This game will not embolden rapists (all studies to date around similar topic agree), the reality is you are either that awful of person or you are not, and no game is going to change that.

All that has happened is a reprehensible product has been thrust into the public spotlight, like they wanted. We fell victim to the troll through our own mass idiocy.
 
Aireoth said:
While I understand what you are saying, it is also absolutely subjective, and completely untestable (given that one side is dead). We have sanitized death in modern media, reality is not clean, pretty or painless, death can take a long time and be incredibly painful. Ultimately one has a chance to recover, and the other does not.

Society has already by in large made the decision of rape v. death. When rape was punished by the death penalty, most rapes ended in murder, this was one of the key issues that caused a change in the criminal codes around the world. We collectively decided it was better to live then die.

This reaction to a shitty, half baked, no name game, is a problem. It's stupid, petty and self defeating. The creators wanted this controversy because it gave them massive publicity, on an already niche product, they will be more financially successful because of this outrage. This game will not embolden rapists (all studies to date around similar topic agree), the reality is you are either that awful of person or you are not, and no game is going to change that.

All that has happened is a reprehensible product has been thrust into the public spotlight, like they wanted. We fell victim to the troll through our own mass idiocy.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Worse, I heard a voice clip of the game's developer themselves basically saying "Yeah you know it was probably bad of Steam to even let me sell on a general-market storefront. By the way I'm going to be selling the game direct from my website instead!" . So the concern trolling not only paid off thanks to all the obscenity/content police, but he clearly used the outrage as the marketing for a game that, were it released on Steam, very very few would probably ever see. Now, all the negative press means he gets sales directly from a massive audience that now knows of his game, including those who are buying specifically because it is "banned". Meanwhile, Steam gets hit with the negative PR somehow (even though the people most outraged should be happy they made the "right" decision and removed the game"), without even any profit from its infamy.

If anything Steam should have quietly removed the game for violations of their "trolling/bad faith" rule and avoided this whole issue.
 
ChoGGi said:
Isn't that what they did?
https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail/1808664240304050758
Click to expand...
VanGoghComplex said:
Not nearly quickly or decisively enough.
Click to expand...

No the problem is they announced it, they should have just quietly removed it and not made any announcement. Hell the whole media should have just let this one quietly slid into oblivion rather than taking the opportunity to grandstand and show their virtue by giving this literal trash free advertising.
 
Aireoth said:
No the problem is they announced it, they should have just quietly removed it and not made any announcement. Hell the whole media should have just let this one quietly slid into oblivion rather than taking the opportunity to grandstand and show their virtue by giving this literal trash free advertising.
Click to expand...
Fair point.
 
Aireoth said:
No the problem is they announced it, they should have just quietly removed it and not made any announcement. Hell the whole media should have just let this one quietly slid into oblivion rather than taking the opportunity to grandstand and show their virtue by giving this literal trash free advertising.
Click to expand...
Good point, if they'd just removed it; a few trolls would try to make a stink, but most would've figured out fairly quickly why it was removed.

Edit: err fair point +2
 
Extra-Titanian said:
Two different issues. One is a censorship problem, the other is a warranty of merchantability issue. The crappy, buggy messes that are pumped and dumped need to get gone.
Click to expand...

Maybe, but let's be honest - when was the last time one of these "controversial" titles was not either a buggy mess, or just plain shit?
 
Good. Who the fuck would make a game like this? They should be singled out and never work in this or any other town again!
 
VanGoghComplex said:
Well, in spite of the way our always-connected, instant-gratification life often makes us feel, a person's sphere of influence is only practically so large. Most people actually can't dedicate the time or resources to ending religious rape in the middle east - that doesn't mean they don't have a right to their opinion that it should end.

Most people can, however, sign an online petition discouraging a massive publisher from bringing a game that glorifies rape to market.

I don't think I'm in an uncommon position when I say that if you can work in any capacity to stop rape or the glorification thereof, ya should.
Click to expand...

There are people that roleplay rape scenarios. That means they consented to one person acting as the rapist and the other as the raped. Does that mean that these people are predispositioned to rape people for real? No, they aren't, as many that partake in these roleplays (not the ones you see in porn videos) consider consent and safe roleplay to be of utmost importance.

Heck, there are even people that roleplay sexual snuff fantasies. What is the difference between a fantasy roleplay and a fantasy video game?
 
Tsumi said:
There are people that roleplay rape scenarios. That means they consented to one person acting as the rapist and the other as the raped. Does that mean that these people are predispositioned to rape people for real? No, they aren't, as many that partake in these roleplays (not the ones you see in porn videos) consider consent and safe roleplay to be of utmost importance.

Heck, there are even people that roleplay sexual snuff fantasies. What is the difference between a fantasy roleplay and a fantasy video game?
Click to expand...
The people who roleplay rape scenarios are doing so in private, with consent, and mutually understood safeties in place (such as safewords and the like.) And no, I don't claim those people are predispositioned to rape people for real.

The difference is that this game is a publicly available (or will be) piece of media that glorifies rape, placing the protagonist in the role of the rapist. If I'm offending some tiny section of the BDSM culture, it's unfortunate but I don't apologize - anyone who would be entertained by this game doesn't deserve to experience that entertainment.

Yeah yeah, I play games where the protagonist does lots of murdering. Maybe they don't strike me this way because I've never had firsthand experience with murder. But as someone who's seen first-hand the life-shattering consequences of rape, I'll die on this hill: the game should never have been made, should never be published, and should never be played. The devs should seek therapy.
 
VanGoghComplex said:
The people who roleplay rape scenarios are doing so in private, with consent, and mutually understood safeties in place (such as safewords and the like.) And no, I don't claim those people are predispositioned to rape people for real.

The difference is that this game is a publicly available (or will be) piece of media that glorifies rape, placing the protagonist in the role of the rapist. If I'm offending some tiny section of the BDSM culture, it's unfortunate but I don't apologize - anyone who would be entertained by this game doesn't deserve to experience that entertainment.

Yeah yeah, I play games where the protagonist does lots of murdering. Maybe they don't strike me this way because I've never had firsthand experience with murder. But as someone who's seen first-hand the life-shattering consequences of rape, I'll die on this hill: the game should never have been made, should never be published, and should never be played. The devs should seek therapy.
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying but it's still hypocritcal. What about all the people who have been shot but didn't die? What about people who lived through terrorist attacks? Do those things not have first-hand, life-shattering consequences? Should the developers of COD have seeked therapy after making the level where you slaughter people in the airport? How about the devs of State of Emergency where you get points for shooting people at a shopping mall?
 
Who gives a shit if its hypocritical, this game glorifies some of the worst humanity has to offer. Anyone who glorifies rape should have a bullet in their brain.
 
DarkStar02 said:
I get what you're saying but it's still hypocritcal. What about all the people who have been shot but didn't die? What about people who lived through terrorist attacks? Do those things not have first-hand, life-shattering consequences? Should the developers of COD have seeked therapy after making the level where you slaughter people in the airport? How about the devs of State of Emergency where you get points for shooting people at a shopping mall?
Click to expand...
I don't have answers for you as to why those things don't set me off. Maybe I am hypocritical in that regard. Maybe I'm desensitized. It could be that I am a product of my culture, or it could be some deep moral failing on my part. Those possibilities, however likely, are irrelevant.

Media that glorifies rape is wrong. The people who make it are bad people and the people who enjoy it are bad people too.

If the same can be said about people who enjoy games with other kinds of violence, big whoop: maybe I'm a bad person too. But that doesn't change the baseline of human decency.
 
VanGoghComplex said:
The people who roleplay rape scenarios are doing so in private, with consent, and mutually understood safeties in place (such as safewords and the like.) And no, I don't claim those people are predispositioned to rape people for real.

The difference is that this game is a publicly available (or will be) piece of media that glorifies rape, placing the protagonist in the role of the rapist. If I'm offending some tiny section of the BDSM culture, it's unfortunate but I don't apologize - anyone who would be entertained by this game doesn't deserve to experience that entertainment.

Yeah yeah, I play games where the protagonist does lots of murdering. Maybe they don't strike me this way because I've never had firsthand experience with murder. But as someone who's seen first-hand the life-shattering consequences of rape, I'll die on this hill: the game should never have been made, should never be published, and should never be played. The devs should seek therapy.
Click to expand...

I still don't see the difference. Either way, the "rapist" is still enjoying the "act" of raping.

Also, to me, glorifying means that the act of raping is rewarded. Without knowing how the game goes, how can you say that it is glorifying?

Krenum said:
Who gives a shit if its hypocritical, this game glorifies some of the worst humanity has to offer. Anyone who glorifies rape should have a bullet in their brain.
Click to expand...

War is literally the worst that humanity has to offer, and it is glorified and even made fun of. Mortal Kombat, let's see how many gruesome kill scenes we can make. Getting killed like that can't be quick or pleasant. Countless flash parodies of war and people getting blown up exist. Rome: Total War allows you to perform mass genocide of cities.

I will say though that it is an entirely cultural thing. American culture has taught us to glorify war and violence and despise open sexuality. I have come to the personal philosophy that fantasy of any kind should be allowed, provided that said person knows how to separate fantasy and reality. Start censoring one, and it becomes a slippery slope down to totalitarianism. Those that cannot differentiate between fantasy and reality already need mental help anyways, it won't make a difference whether a game of their fantasy of choice exists or not.
 
Grimlaking said:
Yes... yes I am saying for the victim and the lifetime of torment they get to live through that being killed isn't as hurtful or painful as being raped. I will stand by that fully. When someone is raped they are destroyed and left to live their life trying to pick up the pieces over and over again. When they are killed it's done.
Click to expand...

Absolutely ridiculous. If someone was imprisoned for life and had only two choices to be mandatory released, rape or death, you think more people would pick death? Like 99.9% of people would pick rape. I'm not saying rape isn't awful, but saying it is worse than death is just idiotic. Plenty of people go on to live normal productive lives after being raped. So why don't most people go kill themselves after being raped if it is worse than death?

It's SO much worse than death that almost half of women have fantasies about it:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...s-rape-fantasies-how-common-what-do-they-mean
 
Last edited:
MavericK said:
Maybe, but let's be honest - when was the last time one of these "controversial" titles was not either a buggy mess, or just plain shit?
Click to expand...
Hatred is pretty well put together, if not a bit tedious/boring. So was Super Columbine Massacre. Postal series/Manhunt was kind of a mixed bag...
 
Krenum said:
Who gives a shit if its hypocritical, this game glorifies some of the worst humanity has to offer. Anyone who glorifies rape should have a bullet in their brain.
Click to expand...
Anyone who advocates murder should be raped.
 
Azrak said:
Games that feature activities that involve killing other humans is OK, though.
Click to expand...
Yes. The capitalists needs soldiers who blindly obey even if they are murdering innocent civilians. It is all about oil profits and hegemony over Middle East, African, and Central Asian oil and gas and strategic minerals. Wall Sreet pulse the strings and the politicians dance. I am looking forward to War Crimes trials for Bush, Obama, Trump, the Clinton's etc. They all should be hung in a public square. I loved what the Partisanos in Italy did to Mussolini.
 
Laowai said:
Why rage at anyone?
If we don't want to purchase the title for whatever reason, we're all free to....not fucking purchase it!
I can't see how giving media coverage to something that pretty much nobody even knew existed before is a positive if you're against this game.
To make things worse, agenda-driven douche bags are never satisfied. Valve pulled the game and then get shit on for pulling it because their reasons weren't the proper reasons according to random assholes who think their opinions matter.

Not aimed at you, but in this thread in general.
This is not a censorship issue. Valve isn't censoring anyone. They chose to not sell a particular product. They do not need a reason to do this.
Click to expand...

while thats not anything to do with what i was saying in any way shape or form, i agree with you 100%.

my post = dont yell at steam, thats like yelling at sams club for selling tide pods in bulk becuase people are dumb enough to eat them.
your post = if people dont buy the product it will go away on its own & let the market sort it out.

both are good ideas.... but sadly both deny the reality that intelligence has, for the most part, left the building along with elvis.
 
harbingerofdoom said:
while thats not anything to do with what i was saying in any way shape or form, i agree with you 100%.

my post = dont yell at steam, thats like yelling at sams club for selling tide pods in bulk becuase people are dumb enough to eat them.
your post = if people dont buy the product it will go away on its own & let the market sort it out.

both are good ideas.... but sadly both deny the reality that intelligence has, for the most part, left the building along with elvis.
Click to expand...
I'm glad we agree and all....but you're really making me scratch my head here as to how my reply had nothing to do with what you said.

YOU: Don't rage at Steam, rage at the Dev!
ME: Why rage at anyone? I then gave a more meaningful alternative to virtue-signalling..err...I mean raging out, stated why I think this kind of impotent internet rage is counter-productive, and pointed out that many of those raging about it may have their own agenda.
YOU: That's not related!
:rolleyes:;)
 
Vega said:
Absolutely ridiculous. If someone was imprisoned for life and had only two choices to be mandatory released, rape or death, you think more people would pick death? Like 99.9% of people would pick rape. I'm not saying rape isn't awful, but saying it is worse than death is just idiotic. Plenty of people go on to live normal productive lives after being raped. So why don't most people go kill themselves after being raped if it is worse than death?

It's SO much worse than death that almost half of women have fantasies about it:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...s-rape-fantasies-how-common-what-do-they-mean
Click to expand...

You really think those fantasies line up with the real thing? I can answer that one for you. They don't.
 
Laowai said:
I'm glad we agree and all....but you're really making me scratch my head here as to how my reply had nothing to do with what you said.

YOU: Don't rage at Steam, rage at the Dev!
ME: Why rage at anyone? I then gave a more meaningful alternative to virtue-signalling..err...I mean raging out, stated why I think this kind of impotent internet rage is counter-productive, and pointed out that many of those raging about it may have their own agenda.
YOU: That's not related!
:rolleyes:;)
Click to expand...

the general tenor of your post left it being more about the idea of letting the marketplace sort it out than about my point of yelling at the wrong person is useless.
but yes, we do both agree with each other :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top