Navi Rumors

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_mockingbird said:
You have to use some common sense.
If NVIDIA can take Turing and die shrink it to 7nm to make it cheaper, NVIDIA would have already done it.
Clearly, at the moment, it's cheaper to have a bigger die on an older process than a smaller die on a newer process.
Click to expand...
Only if you know the yields bigger die size means a lot higher change of having a broken gpu.
_mockingbird said:
Regardless, NVIDIA has access to the same process as AMD does.
If (and that's a big if) 7nm is such a huge advantage as you make it out to be...
Do you really think that NVIDIA would let AMD have that advantage all to itself?
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You mean that Nvidia never ever had any problems making a die shrink work? Or that Nvidia does not really care about AMD in the way that they will make money regardless of what AMD does due to their marketing...
_mockingbird said:
I can tell you right now that yield from a brand new process is going to be worse than a matured process.
Click to expand...
If you been at Intel for the last 5 years , yeah :)
NKD said:
Never debated they are less efficient. But I am not going to throw navi under the bus already. Radeon 7 is just a shrink while navi seems to have bigger tweaks and designed around 7nm in mind. I am betting its lot more efficient then what we have seen recently from nvidia.
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Efficient as in the features on the gpu rather then just power?

NKD said:
I think navi is suppose to be alot more leaner than vega. More work seems to have gone in to it over the years and rumor about it doing Variable rate shading. Rumor about more engineers devoted to Navi with Sony. May be will finally make something that will be efficient at gaming not only when used for compute.
Click to expand...
AMD has a history of trying to dual purpose some of their designs the one that really cratered was Bulldozer but so far the compute cards were "okay". And Navi is just a stop gap until the brand spanking new design comes through.
Some of the problems are with Vega that the features on that card required developers needing to program for it, which can make the new Navi features as much niche as Vega and that would mean that console ports are the only games we will see using it.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Only if you know the yields bigger die size means a lot higher change of having a broken gpu.
Click to expand...

Only if you take no other factors into account- and there plenty of other factors. Might consider the maturity of the respective processes and respective designs, for starters. The larger node might be less expensive literally because of better yields.

Pieter3dnow said:
You mean that Nvidia never ever had any problems making a die shrink work? Or that Nvidia does not really care about AMD in the way that they will make money regardless of what AMD does due to their marketing...
Click to expand...

What does any of that have to do with Navi?

Pieter3dnow said:
Some of the problems are with Vega that the features on that card required developers needing to program for it, which can make the new Navi features as much niche as Vega and that would mean that console ports are the only games we will see using it.
Click to expand...

AMD (and ATi) have had a history of trying to put stuff into GPUs that appear forward-thinking and wind up never getting used. I'd hope that AMD sticks to stuff that's actually planned to be used in the specs already so as to extract the most performance possible.
 
From a strictly business point of view I don't see why AMD would charge much less than Nvidia if they don't have to.

Nvidia sells a lot more based on brand recognition alone than AMD.

Aggressive pricing might cut in to that a bit but with it comes a "budget brand" stigma that I thought AMD was trying to avoid if you look at the R VII launch.

I thought for sure we were going to have affordable (Sub $300) 4K cards this year but I was too naive on that.

In other words: AMD is not going to "Cheapen" their image.
 
Auer said:
From a strictly business point of view I don't see why AMD would charge much less than Nvidia if they don't have to.
Nvidia sells a lot more based on brand recognition alone than AMD.
Aggressive pricing might cut in to that a bit but with it comes a "budget brand" stigma that I thought AMD was trying to avoid if you look at the R VII launch.
I thought for sure we were going to have affordable (Sub $300) 4K cards this year but I was too naive on that.
In other words: AMD is not going to "Cheapen" their image.
Click to expand...

Navi has a change to sell and do well which means that beyond what you are suggesting become a budget brand. _If_ AMD can produce the speculation version of Navi to consumers one side gains more while the other will have a hard time selling their GPU.
Your assessment of the current situation with Radeon VII is also incorrect since that was never planned in the first place the same problems Vega has are now Radeon VII so no other memory then HBM2 and no viable way to solve the problem, most of all you missed the public announcement that RTG had a major reshuffle of personnel and that gpu that will come from that might still take a couple of years (so no budget 4K).

Unless AMD starts selling gpu to the masses again what was sown will never grow when AMD finally gets back in the high end AMD has become a distant memory in the minds of the consumers.

I'm not sure where you are from but I never considered AMD a budget brand nor do they come across like this and in no way shape or form do they have a cheap image. AMD is at the forefront of great technology hardware and software. Freesync, DX12, Vulkan & Mantle things that are widely acknowledged.
The only thing that is unmistakably bad is their marketing department.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Navi has a change to sell and do well which means that beyond what you are suggesting become a budget brand. _If_ AMD can produce the speculation version of Navi to consumers one side gains more while the other will have a hard time selling their GPU.
Your assessment of the current situation with Radeon VII is also incorrect since that was never planned in the first place the same problems Vega has are now Radeon VII so no other memory then HBM2 and no viable way to solve the problem, most of all you missed the public announcement that RTG had a major reshuffle of personnel and that gpu that will come from that might still take a couple of years (so no budget 4K).

Unless AMD starts selling gpu to the masses again what was sown will never grow when AMD finally gets back in the high end AMD has become a distant memory in the minds of the consumers.

I'm not sure where you are from but I never considered AMD a budget brand nor do they come across like this and in no way shape or form do they have a cheap image. AMD is at the forefront of great technology hardware and software. Freesync, DX12, Vulkan & Mantle things that are widely acknowledged.
The only thing that is unmistakably bad is their marketing department.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you're from either because you didn't understand anything I wrote.

/shrug
 
Pieter3dnow said:
AMD is at the forefront of great technology hardware and software. Freesync, DX12, Vulkan & Mantle things that are widely acknowledged.
Click to expand...

Vulkan is about it; they've been behind in everything else, and really Vulkan came after DX12.

AMD has been playing catchup for a decade in the GPU space. We should be careful not to put too much faith in Navi, lest AMD continue to perform as they have in the past.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Vulkan is about it; they've been behind in everything else, and really Vulkan came after DX12.

AMD has been playing catchup for a decade in the GPU space. We should be careful not to put too much faith in Navi, lest AMD continue to perform as they have in the past.
Click to expand...

agree with a lot but a decade is a long time. They were fairly competitive until Pascal hit them performance wise.
 
Auer said:
I'm not sure where you're from either because you didn't understand anything I wrote.

/shrug
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You can not gain market share by simply selling cards for the same price .....
You are advocating simply match Nvidia's price and that will have zero effect.
IdiotInCharge said:
Vulkan is about it; they've been behind in everything else, and really Vulkan came after DX12.

AMD has been playing catchup for a decade in the GPU space. We should be careful not to put too much faith in Navi, lest AMD continue to perform as they have in the past.
Click to expand...

Radeon R9 290X was not a decade ago. Best card in a long long time. Still works today very well I might add....

Navi can be the ideal card 150Watt performance that beats Vega 64. The numbers from the leaks are not magical very well within the realm of possibility for the 7nm process from TSMC.
 
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Pieter3dnow said:
You can not gain market share by simply selling cards for the same price .....
You are advocating simply match Nvidia's price and that will have zero effect.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Just getting up to par with Nvidia's price/performance is not going to convince someone to switch brands.

They need to have a compelling product, both performance *and* price.
 
NKD said:
agree with a lot but a decade is a long time. They were fairly competitive until Pascal hit them performance wise.
Click to expand...

Sure, they'd occasionally almost catch up. They haven't led since they were ATi. I miss those days.

Pieter3dnow said:
Radeon R9 290X was not a decade ago. Best card in a long long time. Still works today very well I might add....
Click to expand...

Best AMD card, sure- but again, almost caught up, still power hungry, loud, hot (people were cutting the brackets open for airflow!), and quickly outmoded. And I have even older GPUs that 'still work great today', I might add, from both vendors.

Pieter3dnow said:
Navi can be the ideal card 150Watt performance that beats Vega 64.
Click to expand...

Well, beating Vega 64 isn't exactly hard, and isn't where they should be aiming. Vega 64 was beaten before it ever released, after all. However, if AMD can reduce their bill of materials, that's at least helpful, and there's little doubt that they'll be able to improve on Vega's power to performance.

Pieter3dnow said:
The numbers from the leaks are not magical very well within the realm of possibility for the 7nm process from TSMC.
Click to expand...

Given what we got with the Radeon VII, TSMC's 7nm node doesn't come across as a 'savior' for AMD. They're still going to have to do the hard work of optimization with Navi, or they'll just have another shrunk and upsized Polaris also-ran.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
You can not gain market share by simply selling cards for the same price .....
You are advocating simply match Nvidia's price and that will have zero effect.


Radeon R9 290X was not a decade ago. Best card in a long long time. Still works today very well I might add....

Navi can be the ideal card 150Watt performance that beats Vega 64. The numbers from the leaks are not magical very well within the realm of possibility for the 7nm process from TSMC.
Click to expand...

I'm not advocating anything. I'm predicting. And that's based on the R VII launch. And my prediction can very well be totally wrong. Just like all your speculation can.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Sure, they'd occasionally almost catch up. They haven't led since they were ATi. I miss those days.



Best AMD card, sure- but again, almost caught up, still power hungry, loud, hot (people were cutting the brackets open for airflow!), and quickly outmoded. And I have even older GPUs that 'still work great today', I might add, from both vendors.



Well, beating Vega 64 isn't exactly hard, and isn't where they should be aiming. Vega 64 was beaten before it ever released, after all. However, if AMD can reduce their bill of materials, that's at least helpful, and there's little doubt that they'll be able to improve on Vega's power to performance.



Given what we got with the Radeon VII, TSMC's 7nm node doesn't come across as a 'savior' for AMD. They're still going to have to do the hard work of optimization with Navi, or they'll just have another shrunk and upsized Polaris also-ran.
Click to expand...

I don't think he is talking about just beating the vega 64. If they made enough improvements to beat vega 64 with navi or get close to it with midrange part at 150w that is getting close to Nvidia efficiency wise. That's a big if but that was what he was referring to..
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Given what we got with the Radeon VII, TSMC's 7nm node doesn't come across as a 'savior' for AMD. They're still going to have to do the hard work of optimization with Navi, or they'll just have another shrunk and upsized Polaris also-ran.
Click to expand...

Die size:

Radeon RX Vega 56/64 - 486 mm2

Radeon VII - 331 mm2

Transistor count increase by 5.6%

TSMC 7nm is not very impressive
 
_mockingbird said:
Die size:

Radeon RX Vega 56/64 - 486 mm2

Radeon VII - 331 mm2

Transistor count increase by 5.6%

TSMC 7nm is not very impressive
Click to expand...


Let's not blame TSMC 7nm just yet. Radeon 7 is not brand spanking new architecture built around 7nm. It's a pipe cleaner and a shrink of vega. Even then they got 25-30% out of it over vega that is decent enough. A new architecture can easily make it look great..
 
_mockingbird said:
Die size:

Radeon RX Vega 56/64 - 486 mm2

Radeon VII - 331 mm2

Transistor count increase by 5.6%

TSMC 7nm is not very impressive
Click to expand...
You are talking about a process and a card that never been a suitable target of the consumer space. Vega die shrink was to be compute only professional market only. Hence the HBM2. If AMD had trouble with costs on their consumer version of Vega there is no logic that explains why AMD are so willing to repeat the same mistake with Radeon 7.

The same TSMC 7nm process pulverize Intel I 9 9900K (TDP135 Watt??)with a 65 Watt version of Zen 3000 series. So much for that process that is matured being better then a new pne.

cybereality said:
Exactly. Just getting up to par with Nvidia's price/performance is not going to convince someone to switch brands.

They need to have a compelling product, both performance *and* price.
Click to expand...

You seen the list that people keep posting from steam the hardware survey. Something has to change and if you want to wait for AMD marketing to get better those Navi cards will be obsolete by then, that is the harsh reality of the situation.
 
Auer said:
From a strictly business point of view I don't see why AMD would charge much less than Nvidia if they don't have to.

Nvidia sells a lot more based on brand recognition alone than AMD.

Aggressive pricing might cut in to that a bit but with it comes a "budget brand" stigma that I thought AMD was trying to avoid if you look at the R VII launch.

I thought for sure we were going to have affordable (Sub $300) 4K cards this year but I was too naive on that.

In other words: AMD is not going to "Cheapen" their image.
Click to expand...

The reason why they should charge less is to gain marketshare. Right now, their marketshare is 18% which is close to an all time low. Look at any of their recent launches and its basically AMD just matching the price to performance of Nvidia. This is on top of having worse efficiency, higher noise and at launch, worse performance. This is not a good idea when you are a significant brand disadvantage. Basically it requires the competitor to raise their prices to stimulate sales for AMD products again. If Nvidia doesn't increase their prices, what happens is a lot of AMD customers who purchased AMD based on their value become Nvidia customers since at equal price to performance, the market prefers Nvidia.

In economics, this has to deal with substitutes. Substitutes are goods serve the same purpose and end up being competitors in the same market. In this case, AMD is considered the lesser of the brands. This means at the same price/perfomance the quantity demanded from Nvidia is higher than AMD. So what happens if AMD raises their prices. Lets look at an example.

Lets say toyota is the only car company in the world and they make brands of cars, Toyota and Lexus.

If Toyota were to raise their Toyota brand to the same level as Lexus, what would happen to Toyota sales. Demand for Toyotas goes down and what would have been toyota sales in the past, now become Lexus sales be. Here is graph to demonstrate in the link below.

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/glossary/substitute-goods/

Basically if Nvidia raise their prices, demand for their cards becomes less and sales naturally shift back to AMD. This is actually beneficial for AMD because increased demand equals higher volume and more marketshare. What AMD is doing however is raising their prices along with Nvidia, increasing demand for Nvidia products which in turn increaes their prices as demand exceeds supply, which causes Nvidia to raise their prices. If AMD matches Nvidia prices again instead of accepting the demand which would come with a lower price, it creates a loop which cause an endless cycle of price increases.

This is basically price fixing because both companies benefit and cause consumer prices to rise rapidly in a market where there are only two players.

If AMD wanted to increase their marketshare, don't raise their prices along with Nvidia and sales will naturally come back to them.

It is a myth AMD didn't have better volume/marketshare when they offered better price to performance than Nvidia. Sure AMD might have not beat Nvidia in terms of volume but it wasn't the this lopsided. When AMD was pricing their products at better price to performance than Nvidia, they had nearly 45% marketshare. This was after then gtx 8800 series and during the 4870 series.

AMD needs to stop lying to themselves pretending they are the superior brand that can get away with charging the same amount for worse cards(atleast at launch). It is not cheapening their image, rather realizing what they to offer superior value to Nvidia.
 
tajoh111 said:
The reason why they should charge less is to gain marketshare. Right now, their marketshare is 18% which is close to an all time low. Look at any of their recent launches and its basically AMD just matching the price to performance of Nvidia. This is on top of having worse efficiency, higher noise and at launch, worse performance. This is not a good idea when you are a significant brand disadvantage. Basically it requires the competitor to raise their prices to stimulate sales for AMD products again. If Nvidia doesn't increase their prices, what happens is a lot of AMD customers who purchased AMD based on their value become Nvidia customers since at equal price to performance, the market prefers Nvidia.

In economics, this has to deal with substitutes. Substitutes are goods serve the same purpose and end up being competitors in the same market. In this case, AMD is considered the lesser of the brands. This means at the same price/perfomance the quantity demanded from Nvidia is higher than AMD. So what happens if AMD raises their prices. Lets look at an example.

Lets say toyota is the only car company in the world and they make brands of cars, Toyota and Lexus.

If Toyota were to raise their Toyota brand to the same level as Lexus, what would happen to Toyota sales. Demand for Toyotas goes down and what would have been toyota sales in the past, now become Lexus sales be. Here is graph to demonstrate in the link below.

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/glossary/substitute-goods/

Basically if Nvidia raise their prices, demand for their cards becomes less and sales naturally shift back to AMD. This is actually beneficial for AMD because increased demand equals higher volume and more marketshare. What AMD is doing however is raising their prices along with Nvidia, increasing demand for Nvidia products which in turn increaes their prices as demand exceeds supply, which causes Nvidia to raise their prices. If AMD matches Nvidia prices again instead of accepting the demand which would come with a lower price, it creates a loop which cause an endless cycle of price increases.

This is basically price fixing because both companies benefit and cause consumer prices to rise rapidly in a market where there are only two players.

If AMD wanted to increase their marketshare, don't raise their prices along with Nvidia and sales will naturally come back to them.

It is a myth AMD didn't have better volume/marketshare when they offered better price to performance than Nvidia. Sure AMD might have not beat Nvidia in terms of volume but it wasn't the this lopsided. When AMD was pricing their products at better price to performance than Nvidia, they had nearly 45% marketshare. This was after then gtx 8800 series and during the 4870 series.

AMD needs to stop lying to themselves pretending they are the superior brand that can get away with charging the same amount for worse cards(atleast at launch). It is not cheapening their image, rather realizing what they to offer superior value to Nvidia.
Click to expand...

In a luxury goods market (Yes consumer gaming GPU's are a luxury good) public perception plays a big part.

Lowering prices does affect image. Not here on [H] so much but in the rest of the world.

They could have gotten a TON of positive publicity by selling the R VII for $599.
Instead they went with the "People will think it's lesser if it costs less" mentality.

Also, no one chooses a Toyota over a Lexus based on anything but price. And they know they get less. They either don't care or simply can't afford more.

I also could go on and on about the prices of Cell Phones. Especially high end. But I wont. You get the point.

I will be surprised when AMD comes out with a 2070 equivalent for $399. I really will. But let's hope it happens for the sake of our wallets.

It's obvious looking at threads on enthusiast forums that buying a GPU is a somewhat emotional experience. People are passionate about their hobbies. Me too.
But for the vast majority of gamers out there it's simply more about just having a peer approved "Best" brand. You don't have to read up a whole lot to come to that conclusion.
 
Auer said:
It's obvious looking at threads on enthusiast forums that buying a GPU is a somewhat emotional experience. People are passionate about their hobbies. Me too.
Click to expand...

I wish they'd be more emotional about results than letters on a box, personally...
 
IdiotInCharge said:
I wish they'd be more emotional about results than letters on a box, personally...
Click to expand...

Not everyone uses the same metric for "results" that you do ;).

Personally, I have a Freesync 144hz monitor. I got it for $150 (basically a steal), and Gsync wasn't an option at the time due to the cost. After the fact, Nvidia "works" with Freesync. I swapped my Vega to a 1080 just to see, but my monitor had terrible tearing with the 1080, so I switched back to AMD for now.

So while I was getting better raw numbers with the 1080 the gameplay wasn't a better result. And unless I swap out monitors, I'm going to take a close look at Navi when it launches.
 
kirbyrj said:
Not everyone uses the same metric for "results" that you do ;).
Click to expand...

True!

Though with GPUs it's usually fairly simple these days, as we've gotten very good at actually measuring the stuff that matters and the occurrence of wildly inconsistent differences have largely been eliminated by both major vendors.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
True!

Though with GPUs it's usually fairly simple these days, as we've gotten very good at actually measuring the stuff that matters and the occurrence of wildly inconsistent differences have largely been eliminated by both major vendors.
Click to expand...

I edited my original post to better reflect what I meant. And as always the cost/benefit always comes into play.

I mean with my Freesync monitor, I picked up a used mining RX580 for $100. Should hold me over until Navi. I wouldn't touch one (RX580) at a price over $200 though (even with free games).
 
NKD said:
Let's not blame TSMC 7nm just yet. Radeon 7 is not brand spanking new architecture built around 7nm. It's a pipe cleaner and a shrink of vega. Even then they got 25-30% out of it over vega that is decent enough. A new architecture can easily make it look great..
Click to expand...

Vega 20 (Radeon VII) is mostly just a die shrink of Vega 10 (Radeon RX Vega 56/64)

INT8 and INT4 instructions were added and that's about it.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
They also make faster products, products with more features, and products that are more efficient.

But let's concentrate on the brand :/
Click to expand...

Vega is, in a lot of ways, worse than Maxwell. (i.e. Vega's delta color compression is worse than the one that is used in Maxwell)

From what I've heard, Navi aims to rectify that.

That way, AMD can increase performance without blowing up the die size.
 
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Auer said:
Lowering prices does affect image. Not here on [H] so much but in the rest of the world.

They could have gotten a TON of positive publicity by selling the R VII for $599.
Instead they went with the "People will think it's lesser if it costs less" mentality.

I will be surprised when AMD comes out with a 2070 equivalent for $399. I really will. But let's hope it happens for the sake of our wallets.

It's obvious looking at threads on enthusiast forums that buying a GPU is a somewhat emotional experience. People are passionate about their hobbies. Me too.
But for the vast majority of gamers out there it's simply more about just having a peer approved "Best" brand. You don't have to read up a whole lot to come to that conclusion.
Click to expand...
I would not say that lowering prices never reflects bad on technology. It is where you can hurt your competitor when they have to much stock.
https://bitcoinexchangeguide.com/cr...-nvidia-overstocks-gpus-as-interest-plummets/

That is a very simple example. AMD has only to gain by making small die size gpu and pounding on price/performance ratio. The bigger die size and the way Nvidia operates makes it a very good target with Navi.

If you cared to research things about Nvidia is that they are the company that only work with high margins. Navi could severely dent that image. By forcing them to either follow at $250 or keep suggesting that RTX is the future (for those few games).

It is odd that you see value in buying a rtx 2070 performance card at $399 but you don't see value in $250 Navi card. It would make the lower parts of the RTX line up extremely unattractive for anyone(not that it was that attractive to begin with). If you can carry over the sentiment for people that did buy Navi you are favouring that their next purchase will be also an AMD card.

They could get a ton of publicity if they sold the Radeon 7 for $2 but sadly logic dictates that when you have premium components in your card you have to include them in the price you set for your product you might think that my $2 sounds silly but your $599 makes as much sense, you might like your price better but it is not based on anything in reality (the same chip is sold for thousands in the professional market)......
 
Delta color compression is actually very compute intensive.

You are spending multiple cycles trying out different patterns.

AMD just also happens to have compute heavy microarchitecture.

Match made in heaven, right?

Now, AMD just has to make it works.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
I would not say that lowering prices never reflects bad on technology. It is where you can hurt your competitor when they have to much stock.
https://bitcoinexchangeguide.com/cr...-nvidia-overstocks-gpus-as-interest-plummets/

That is a very simple example. AMD has only to gain by making small die size gpu and pounding on price/performance ratio. The bigger die size and the way Nvidia operates makes it a very good target with Navi.

If you cared to research things about Nvidia is that they are the company that only work with high margins. Navi could severely dent that image. By forcing them to either follow at $250 or keep suggesting that RTX is the future (for those few games).

It is odd that you see value in buying a rtx 2070 performance card at $399 but you don't see value in $250 Navi card. It would make the lower parts of the RTX line up extremely unattractive for anyone(not that it was that attractive to begin with). If you can carry over the sentiment for people that did buy Navi you are favouring that their next purchase will be also an AMD card.

They could get a ton of publicity if they sold the Radeon 7 for $2 but sadly logic dictates that when you have premium components in your card you have to include them in the price you set for your product you might think that my $2 sounds silly but your $599 makes as much sense, you might like your price better but it is not based on anything in reality (the same chip is sold for thousands in the professional market)......
Click to expand...


...and what makes you think it will be $250?

wishful thinking?
 
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Interesting in the end of the video he mentions AMD's gaming 7nm chip (Radeon VII) far before it was ever announced, so that indicates at least he has some real info.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
So far the rumours are from this person and nothing yet has been indicating that it is not true.
Click to expand...


Let’s see.

CES was about two months ago and I don’t remember that AMD announced “Ryzen 3 3300”, “Ryzen 3 3300X”, “Ryzen 5 3600”, “Ryzen 5 3600X”, “Ryzen 7 3700”, “Ryzen 7 3700X”, or “Ryzen 9 3800X”.
 
_mockingbird said:
Let’s see.

CES was about two months ago and I don’t remember that AMD announced “Ryzen 3 3300”, “Ryzen 3 3300X”, “Ryzen 5 3600”, “Ryzen 5 3600X”, “Ryzen 7 3700”, “Ryzen 7 3700X”, or “Ryzen 9 3800X”.
Click to expand...

And that is correct those announcements are not there but if you are going to nitpick let me do the same. The dates may be wrong but it seems the models and the rest might not be. In the end it is about the products. And we did see Ryzen 8 core demo at CES. We even saw that there is room for another chiplet on the module.
That in no way tells you everything but it does make the video with those rumours seem very likely to be true.
cybereality said:
Here is the latest rumor, looks like August.
https://wccftech.com/exclusive-amds-7nm-navi-gpu-will-launch-roughly-a-month-after-ryzen-3000/
Click to expand...

Some rumors previously had suggested an October launch, but as of now, AMD is telling its partners to expect the launch exactly a month after the Ryzen 7nm launch. Those who read my original exclusive will remember that I talked about how Navi is going to be the first non-GCN GPU and the first card to break free of the 4096 SP limit imposed by the GCN macro-architecture.
Click to expand...

WCCFTech is so much fun :)
 
Pieter3dnow said:
And that is correct those announcements are not there but if you are going to nitpick let me do the same. The dates may be wrong but it seems the models and the rest might not be. In the end it is about the products. And we did see Ryzen 8 core demo at CES.
Click to expand...

The video also said that three Navi GPUs would be announced at CES.

...and here I thought you said:

Pieter3dnow said:
nothing yet has been indicating that it is not true.
Click to expand...


Never mind that Lisa Su already said that Matisse won't have iGPU and we already know that Picasso has up to 4 cores, so where does 6 cores and 8 cores APUs come from?

Pieter3dnow said:
We even saw that there is room for another chiplet on the module.
That in no way tells you everything but it does make the video with those rumours seem very likely to be true.
Click to expand...

Who would have thought that AMD would use the same chiplet design for 3rd gen Ryzen that AMD used for EPYC 2? /sarcasm

Anyone who watched AMD's demo of EPYC 2 would have guessed that.
 
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_mockingbird said:
The video also said that three Navi GPUs would be announced at CES.

...and here I thought you said:



Never mind that Lisa Su already said that Matisse won't have iGPU and we already know that Picasso has up to 4 cores, so where does 6 cores and 8 cores APUs come from?



Who would have thought that AMD would use the same chiplet design for 3rd gen Ryzen that AMD used for EPYC 2? /sarcasm

Anyone who watched AMD's demo of EPYC 2 would have guessed that.
Click to expand...
Yeah and if you been reading the forum you can see for yourself that Navi was intended to be announced from the release of Radeon VII and the problems surrounding that launch.

We have to wait and see when AMD announces their GPU we don't even know how that IO chip works on Ryzen 3000 series and that the designation is not Matisse for APU but a different one can also be true.

Well Epyc is still 1st generation Zen cores and the 1800x was not using any chiplets nor was the 2700x for that matter. And those dies were still not used in the same way Epyc was. That Threadripper was a good indicator might have been beter but that platform even had a single die 8 core version.

Until everything is released we can see how close things are. And if you asked AMD if they would have rather have Navi out the door by CES or shortly after rather than Radeon VII you prolly will hear a resounding yes.
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Yeah and if you been reading the forum you can see for yourself that Navi was intended to be announced from the release of Radeon VII and the problems surrounding that launch.
Click to expand...

So in December, AMD intended to announce Radeon RX 3060, Radeon RX 3070, and Radeon RX 3080 at CES, but a month later, AMD decided to push that back 6 months?

Doubtful

Do you have a source for that?

Pieter3dnow said:
We have to wait and see when AMD announces their GPU we don't even know how that IO chip works on Ryzen 3000 series and that the designation is not Matisse for APU but a different one can also be true.
Click to expand...

We already have AMD's roadmap.

It's just not there.

Pieter3dnow said:
Well Epyc is still 1st generation Zen cores and the 1800x was not using any chiplets nor was the 2700x for that matter. And those dies were still not used in the same way Epyc was. That Threadripper was a good indicator might have been beter but that platform even had a single die 8 core version.
Click to expand...

EPYC has the same dies as the ones used in 1st gen Ryzen, just 4 times as many.

Pieter3dnow said:
Until everything is released we can see how close things are. And if you asked AMD if they would have rather have Navi out the door by CES or shortly after rather than Radeon VII you prolly will hear a resounding yes.
Click to expand...

What AMD "would rather have" is irrelevant.

There was no indication at all that Navi lineup was going to be announced at CES.
 
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If the price is decent, and the reviews show it performs as well as I think, a 3700x is going to be in a build, this summer.

If Navi has a decent price, and the reviews show it performs as well as I think...it is going to join that 3700x and also replace one (or two) other GPUs.

If not? Well, a 1660ti will get ordered as an interim...and I'll re-assess.

As a fan/consumer, I don't give a fig WHEN Navi gets released, as long as it does so in a reasonable time (available for purchase not later than Christmas season, 2019), and performs decently in the 2560x1440 category.
 
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_mockingbird said:
Do you have a source for that?
Click to expand...
Do you know what you are talking about to begin with ?

Did you not see the problems surrounding the drivers on Radeon VII. The mediocre cooling the problems with Wattman , how many more hints do you need that it makes it clear that this was not a videocard intended for launch

https://fudzilla.com/news/graphics/48066-amd-ceo-confirms-navi-for-2019

https://fudzilla.com/news/graphics/47435-amd-has-7nm-navi-gpu-up-and-running-in-its-lab

According to our sources, AMD already has its 7nm Navi-based graphics card up and running in its lab, and the 7nm GPU looks good.
Click to expand...

Our sources also suggested that the 7nm GPU looks better than expected. Unfortunately, our source did not go into specifics so we do not know if this means that yields are good or that the actual 7nm GPU is giving a performance/power consumption. Bear in mind that these are some of the first details coming regarding the 7nm Navi GPU, in addition to earlier rumors suggesting that we could see the GTX 1080 performance-level at $250 price range.
Click to expand...

Odd right for an article in October with pricing to boot. What use is pricing information when it is over 6 months due ?
 
Pieter3dnow said:
Do you know what you are talking about to begin with ?

Did you not see the problems surrounding the drivers on Radeon VII. The mediocre cooling the problems with Wattman , how many more hints do you need that it makes it clear that this was not a videocard intended for launch

https://fudzilla.com/news/graphics/48066-amd-ceo-confirms-navi-for-2019

https://fudzilla.com/news/graphics/47435-amd-has-7nm-navi-gpu-up-and-running-in-its-lab

According to our sources, AMD already has its 7nm Navi-based graphics card up and running in its lab, and the 7nm GPU looks good.
Click to expand...

Our sources also suggested that the 7nm GPU looks better than expected. Unfortunately, our source did not go into specifics so we do not know if this means that yields are good or that the actual 7nm GPU is giving a performance/power consumption. Bear in mind that these are some of the first details coming regarding the 7nm Navi GPU, in addition to earlier rumors suggesting that we could see the GTX 1080 performance-level at $250 price range.
Click to expand...

Odd right for an article in October with pricing to boot. What use is pricing information when it is over 6 months due ?
Click to expand...

If you have to support rumors with more rumors, then your argument is pretty lousy.
 
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