Department of Justice Charges Huawei and Its Executives with 23 Crimes

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piscian18 said:
Long time coming. banned where I work, dating back 5 years. Not allowed in our facilities or network. I think the official statement was that their products pose serious security risk to our network, personel and customers. I work in a big future technologies lab. Dont get me wrong I have no weird hangups about the chinese and love me some aliexpess for odds and ends. I think we have several chinese vendors were ok with. My understanding is Hauwei is straight up government spies. Im honestly curious how the other big american tech companies feel about them. Their watches seem really topnotch.
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Man, I need to delete all that porn from my Huawei tablet...
 
Fabel said:
"To the detriment of American ingenuity"

Sorry, you lost me there. I can't forget all those accusations about Huawei spying and to me that is the pot calling the kettle black.
The only state spying I am fully aware of was the US on Merkel and all that stuff about "intercepting" HDD shipping and replacing firmware, and gag orders and whatnot.
Lavabit closed doors, bigger companies simply comply...

I mean, ok Huawei tried to steal trade secrets, go for it, but....

"the FBI will not tolerate corrupt businesses that violate the laws that allow American companies and the United States to thrive."

Yeah unless those corrupt businesses happen to be those very same American companies. (Thinking of some banks, telcos and Facebook for example, btw the FCC has become a joke)

I get it, this is part of the trade war with china, but please, can you really say that with a straight face?

Is all the rhetoric what I can't handle.
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big diff between eavesdropping on head of state, and espionage to steal military design tech (among others)
 
theBrownLlama said:
big diff between eavesdropping on head of state, and espionage to steal military design tech (among others)
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So eavesdropping on an allied head of state is somehow less wrong? I don't think so.

But my point is talking about "American ingenuity" with all the crap they have been caught red-handed in recent years is baffling to say the least.

And all the rhetoric about corporations would be more credible if the GOP still had a spine to hold against such corporations and their lobbies.
 
Fabel said:
"To the detriment of American ingenuity"

Sorry, you lost me there. I can't forget all those accusations about Huawei spying and to me that is the pot calling the kettle black.
The only state spying I am fully aware of was the US on Merkel and all that stuff about "intercepting" HDD shipping and replacing firmware, and gag orders and whatnot.
Lavabit closed doors, bigger companies simply comply...

I mean, ok Huawei tried to steal trade secrets, go for it, but....

"the FBI will not tolerate corrupt businesses that violate the laws that allow American companies and the United States to thrive."

Yeah unless those corrupt businesses happen to be those very same American companies. (Thinking of some banks, telcos and Facebook for example, btw the FCC has become a joke)

I get it, this is part of the trade war with china, but please, can you really say that with a straight face?

Is all the rhetoric what I can't handle.
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You forgot to mention that pretty much every american tech company has put a backdoor on their products so Uncle sam can spy on their clients.
 
umeng2002 said:
Everyone looking at Russia... China has been the real enemy for decades.
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The trick is to identify all major adversaries, not just one. Which America does.
If you are implying America has been overly focused on Russia, and China has somehow, in some regard been free to fly under the radar as a result, I would disagree.
Generally it's good to think your country is in competition with every other in varying degrees.
 
Kalabalana said:
The trick is to identify all major adversaries, not just one. Which America does.
If you are implying America has been overly focused on Russia, and China has somehow, in some regard been free to fly under the radar as a result, I would disagree.
Generally it's good to think your country is in competition with every other in varying degrees.
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Agreed. What people see talked about in forums or social networks does not represent what our intelligence agencies are actually monitoring or doing with their time.

Kinda sad, I was interested in a huawei phone because they seemed decent at a fair price imo. Oh well.
 
China needs to be kneecapped and isolated. Damn Nixon.
 
Reimu said:
Well, it's not as if the Chinese aren't aware of that. They were able to secure oil and natural gas from Russia at a bargain bin fire sale deal, but that's only going to answer for a decade. The Chinese's moving aggressively with renewable, nuclear and EVs, which would cut that dependence out if it plays out.
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Which means that other countries will lose more levers to negotiate with them. If anything, China has the upper hand over Russia in their Far East oil/gas bargaining -- and Russia is well aware of that (not happy, but not much they can do).

Russia is a threat, true -- but nowhere near what China brings to the table (economic power, focused espionage on a grand scale, reverse-engineering, side-stepping via African maneuvers, etc).

It would be a serious mistake to underestimate both Russia and China at this stage of the game. But, make no mistake -- China under Xi Jinping should be the top priority, hands down.
 
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Fabel said:
So eavesdropping on an allied head of state is somehow less wrong? I don't think so.

But my point is talking about "American ingenuity" with all the crap they have been caught red-handed in recent years is baffling to say the least.

And all the rhetoric about corporations would be more credible if the GOP still had a spine to hold against such corporations and their lobbies.
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different kinds of wrong.
one made China become a real technological and economic adversary to the US
the other, well , not much heard from that.
 
tungt88 said:
Which means that other countries will lose more levers to negotiate with them. If anything, China has the upper hand over Russia in their Far East oil/gas bargaining -- and Russia is well aware of that (not happy, but not much they can do).

Russia is a threat, true -- but nowhere near what China brings to the table (economic power, focused espionage on a grand scale, reverse-engineering, side-stepping via African maneuvers, etc).

It would be a serious mistake to underestimate both Russia and China at this stage of the game. But, make no mistake -- China under Xi Jinping should be the top priority, hands down.
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plus the Chinese does what the Americans do not want to do since the mid past century. And that is support leaders of foreign countries with $. (something which corporate lobbies continue to do so in the US itself)

when was the last time US went out and say they will match Chinese infrastructure bids in a hundred other countries out there? ( if chosen between China and the US on completely similar financial , and ahem 'personal enrichment terms', who wouldn't want to choose the US? )

even American businesses are passive in bids and tenders for supplies for machinery and software. ( it;s always some marketer from China making the strongest sales pitch.)
 
Just keep in mind that this is the same Christopher Wray that when he was a US District Attorney, headed the Enron prosecutions. And out of 14 indictments, 12 either resulted in acquittals or were overturned on appeal. Several made it to the US Supreme Court where they where overturned unanimously. Many legal experts felt the cases were weak, but that Wray pushed them though anyway in order to further his career. So it's possible he may be grandstanding again. Just sayin. I believe some Chinese companies (maybe the majority) cheat and steal IP, but that doesn't automatically mean that Wray is automatically beyond reproach here.
 
Did anyone else notice this guy is sweating like his balls are on fire? I saw a snippet of this on the news last night night... they really should have hired a towel boy to wipe him down every few minutes. Sorry... towel "person" ?
 
Aireoth said:
Whats your point? that because at some time in the past we did it too means others are free to do it?

That is a very dangerous road to go down for everyone.
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Did I say it was ok? Nope.
Just pointing out some history for you, education innit? Do as you will with it, or do nothing.

Incidentally, given that it's a dangerous road to go down,as you say, we should stop now yes? When it is US IP being stolen?
Why not stop before when it was British IP?

You could argue, to be absolutely fair about it, we should stop when every country has had a go at it, yes?
 
Colonel_Blimp said:
Did I say it was ok? Nope.
Just pointing out some history for you, education innit? Do as you will with it, or do nothing.

Incidentally, given that it's a dangerous road to go down,as you say, we should stop now yes? When it is US IP being stolen?
Why not stop before when it was British IP?

You could argue, to be absolutely fair about it, we should stop when every country has had a go at it, yes?
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Everyone is aware that history is not clean, they don't know all the specifics, but they know enough.

Dangerous, absolutely, if you think IP theft is the only thing that used to be accepted and practiced by the 'west' then maybe you are in need of the history lesson. There is no sense in justifying today's actions using history.

Fairness is determined by those living today, not those that lived yesterday. Should we be putting a stop to IP theft like we have put a stop to many historical practices, yes, and it must apply regardless of race, creed or nation.

You are justifying today's crimes by saying 'but someone else did it in the past', it is just stupid.
 
Darunion said:
Agreed. What people see talked about in forums or social networks does not represent what our intelligence agencies are actually monitoring or doing with their time.

Kinda sad, I was interested in a huawei phone because they seemed decent at a fair price imo. Oh well.
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Me too, but I question it now, I have a ZTE currently, and I'm a little apprehensive as a result
 
JNavy89GT said:
China stealing intellectual property!!!! My surprised look :greedy:
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I agree. They would never do this. Maybe Africa or Russia, but not China that literally made all my favorite things that bring me happiness.
 
Aireoth said:
Everyone is aware that history is not clean, they don't know all the specifics, but they know enough.

Dangerous, absolutely, if you think IP theft is the only thing that used to be accepted and practiced by the 'west' then maybe you are in need of the history lesson. There is no sense in justifying today's actions using history.

Fairness is determined by those living today, not those that lived yesterday. Should we be putting a stop to IP theft like we have put a stop to many historical practices, yes, and it must apply regardless of race, creed or nation.

You are justifying today's crimes by saying 'but someone else did it in the past', it is just stupid.
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I'm not justifying it, just noting it.
I wonder, if it was China stealing the IP of Russia, would the reaction be as supportive of the Russians? I would like to think so because that would mean the crime is the problem, not which country is losing out.
 
NKD said:
lets not make it seem like Russia is all innocent. Motherfuckers used social media and hacked emails to swing elections. Yea china is shit and so is russia. Russia is getting sweet fuckin deals all the way to the moon. Tariff canaidan steel companies and then lift sanctions on Russian companies after 8 months? Russia can burn in hell for all I care. All they are doing is dividing what stood against them. They are doing damage in a way where it is going to hurt for a long time.
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Trying to swing elections in other nations is nothing new and it's not something only the dirty do. Any country with foreign interests and the resources to do this will try to do it when they feel it's worthwhile, Any country. The fact that Russia was caught out in our last election just shows that they were sloppy about it, maybe went too far, that last apple out on the branch was just a little too far.

Don't take this as my backing or condoning what these guys are doing. I'm just saying it's a game that is widely played.
 
Colonel_Blimp said:
I'm not justifying it, just noting it.
I wonder, if it was China stealing the IP of Russia, would the reaction be as supportive of the Russians? I would like to think so because that would mean the crime is the problem, not which country is losing out.
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Not much to "steal" from Russia atm, except for (possibly) gas and jet/rocket engine tech -- and the Chinese already have (quite favorable) gas agreements w/Russia in the Far East, and have purchased Russian jet fighters in the past. Everything else, the Chinese are already getting from the US and the world (legal and illegal).

More important to China, is that the (generally) friendly, comfortable current arrangements w/Russia stay in place. No need to start a two-front war, as 'ol Adolf found out to his dismay ...

The US may be underestimating the Chinese, but (rest assured) they are definitely not underestimating us.
 
lcpiper said:
Trying to swing elections in other nations is nothing new and it's not something only the dirty do. Any country with foreign interests and the resources to do this will try to do it when they feel it's worthwhile, Any country. The fact that Russia was caught out in our last election just shows that they were sloppy about it, maybe went too far, that last apple out on the branch was just a little too far.

Don't take this as my backing or condoning what these guys are doing. I'm just saying it's a game that is widely played.
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I don't think that Russia really "cares" about getting "caught" -- they executed those visible game plans deliberately, knowing full well that we, the American public, will see them. The mere fact that they are making this sort of play, means two things:

  1. Cheap way to meddle in American affairs (why spend millions/billions, when a million or less will do?). Russia is very happy over the current muddled state of affairs in the US right now, with both sides acting emotionally rather than logically. "A House Divided, Cannot Stand". THAT is Russia's "end game", not any ideological love for either Trump, Hillary, or even Sanders. Remember that Putin is a KGB alumnus -- disinformation, deception, and manipulation of "Political Market Conditions" are straight up from the classic KGB playbook. KGB are pragmatists, not ideologues -- as is fitting for a former "secret policeman".
  2. It's also a way to show that, decades after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia is still a major player in the global game, and cannot be taken or brushed off so easily. We've already seen that with Ukraine/Crimea and Syria.
Russia well knows that the two biggest players on the world stage right now are American and China (thankfully, still in that order). But, by being one of the most powerful forces "in the middle", they hope to make the most of opportunities that will inevitably arise (and they already have).
 
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'Not much to steal from Russia' wasn't the point. It was more about separating the crime from the country.

Your 2 front point, while not relevant, is interesting though. Much like the way the British conducted their 3 power system.
 
Colonel_Blimp said:
'Not much to steal from Russia' wasn't the point. It was more about separating the crime from the country.

Your 2 front point, while not relevant, is interesting though. Much like the way the British conducted their 3 power system.
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Oh, I'm well aware of your point -- but, to answer your question, most folks here in the States would feel that China "stealing" from Russia would be a moot point to begin with, because most would make the association of "one thief robbing another -- nothing to see here". Whether or not that is the correct analogy is a different matter entirely.

My main point was that your use of China and Russia wasn't appropriate, because neither of them have any real reason to disturb the current, friendly relations between them right now -- unlike this current situation, where China definitely has clear "incentives" to "rob US information/tech/etc". Maybe if you used the classic Cold War scenario with US vs USSR ...
 
But the FBI -WILL- tolerate Hillary lying and deleting emails from her server, they -WILL- tolerate their FBI agents grinding a political ax against Trump, they -WILL- tolerate Lois Lerner deleting emails, they -WILL- tolerate CIA directors destroying tapes that they were order to retain.......and on and on and on.
 
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