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If you’re a dev you don’t need a university degree: https://lambdaschool.comImagine spending years studying for a degree and being rejected for a job in favour of someone who left school at 16 and gained some 'skills' the company is interested in. You'd have to ask yourself if it was worth paying for further education.
I suspect the degree holder would progress much quicker and further than someone who stopped studying early.
There are many reasons for that...some good, some bad.Funny, all the people that I worked with wtihout degrees wanted to to go back to college to get them. They felt inferior to everyone that did have them.
Funny, all the people that I worked with wtihout degrees wanted to to go back to college to get them. They felt inferior to everyone that did have them.
Thanks I was wondering what the real reason was. Should have known.It's called a "glass ceiling". Lot's of companies have them, where you can't be promoted beyond a certain point without a certain degree.
Imagine spending years studying for a degree and being rejected for a job in favour of someone who left school at 16 and gained some 'skills' the company is interested in. You'd have to ask yourself if it was worth paying for further education.
I suspect the degree holder would progress much quicker and further than someone who stopped studying early.
Degrees tend to teach ways of thinking, rather than specific skills, thus resulting in more adaptible, open minded and innovative workers.
I totally believe experience is worth more than a college degree in some fields. So much can be learned on any subject without the need of a 4 year university course.
I think a lot of this depends on what job and degree we are talking about. If it is a position that requires technical skills that can be acquired with training outside of a typical university/college situation, then there might be less value to having a degree. However, if we are talking about a job that requires a thorough understanding of physics (or another area of science) in order to actually do your job, then you might really need a degree (and probably an advanced degree). There are probably very few examples of individuals who skipped out on college and ended up at AFRL or Sandia doing R&D.
False, i dropped out of high school in grade 10 and am self taught in IT for the most part, put me and some college grad in a room and have a high pressure situation come up and watch them fail..
Many self taught people think outside of the box vs "some" people who have certs know how to read a book and write down the answers.
I have no problem with this. Certs > Degree in IT anyway.
HR will not be happy about this, it undercuts one reason for their existence.
I think a lot of this depends on what job and degree we are talking about. If it is a position that requires technical skills that can be acquired with training outside of a typical university/college situation, then there might be less value to having a degree. However, if we are talking about a job that requires a thorough understanding of physics (or another area of science) in order to actually do your job, then you might really need a degree (and probably an advanced degree). There are probably very few examples of individuals who skipped out on college and ended up at AFRL or Sandia doing R&D.
It's not so much hiring people for entry level positions that require a degree that are so problematic I think, it's placing more value on a degree than experience, especially in-house experience, for positions above entry level. I'm a firm believer that giving everyone you employ the chance to climb to the top is a very underrated perk by the higher-ups. Obviously you don't pass on a ringer like Jim Keller when you can get them, but you also don't put a wall in front of your most gifted people just because they didn't happen to get the right piece of paper when they were younger.
I think a college degree shows aptitude and potential. A person fresh out of college is a noob - but they were able to stick to something and pass their classes. Unless they did something on their own, they will not have experience and only have a general knowledge upon graduating.
An area tech people tend to neglect is the ability to communicate effectively. I know I hated certain classes (speaking, English/writing classes, business classes, etc) - but I use all of these areas frequently in my jobs. I think they make you a more valuable employee. There is room for a person that rarely interacts with other people, but they limit their career options. (TBH, a lot of people are ok with that - it's a personal choice.)
When I interviewed for my current job (in a very technical field requiring highly specialized skills, needing about 10 years (minimum) to attain), there were two interviewers: a member of the technical specialty...and an HR maven.
The HR maven was the "power broker" of the pair.
The technical rep was just there as window dressing. It was HR who made the decision.
This was due to internal power struggles within the corporation.
I'm not a fan of this type of organizational structure. I am willing to bet it's always the HR type that requires the certification of ability by showing the degree, rather than interpreting someone's history of work. They simply don't have the ability to judge, other than ensuring a candidate has checked certain boxes...like having a degree. As well, even if they did have the knowledge to make a judgment call, if they did that and the candidate failed, then the HR person could lose. Bad judgment call vs. the HR who followed the bureaucratic checklist? Well, we know who will get fired when it all gets downsized...
But that's exactly the issue many like myself face.
Situation, government contract supporting an Army development lab contract. Prime contractor won't hire anyone without a degree, seems they are working on their "pedigree" lol, they push all the old timers without degrees, like myself, off onto the subcontractor companies in the "team". Thing is, these mid-tier corporate leaders see such things in the light of "who can move up" and frankly, without a degree, no one is moving up beyond senior lead positions without a degree. By requiring a degree for their own people, and pushing off non-degree holders to the subs, they ensure that all of the leadership positions are their own people, the subs are just their in name to keep the government happy.
Of course many like myself have no desire at all to "climb the ladder". We are very happy right where we are, in our fiefdom where we can take care of the customer properly, tell leadership to blow, and wait for real retirement. The hardest thing we have to do is stay motivated to learn, and not kill our senior engineer who's go the people skills of an incontinent moose.
A cert is one test. A college degree shows a breadth of knowledge and the ability to teach yourself. I am only referring to "technical degrees". Not lib arts.We require certain certifications to meet Government standards regardless of your educational background. We have a wide range of education from having multiple degrees (some have even have their masters) and people with just a diploma. Some of our highest paid and highest ranking individuals do not have a degree. At the end of the day it's just a sheet of paper.
By contrast, I'm a supervisor on a technical help desk that contracts for the Army (we now support Navy and AF) and I've interviewed and hired many, many individuals. I too make note of their educational background but it has little bearing on whether or not I will hire them. They must have their certifications and they must do well on our technical performance analysis or they will not be selected. I've seen hundreds of resumes that make people look great on paper but when put to the test they seem like a totally different person.
We require certain certifications to meet Government standards regardless of your educational background. We have a wide range of education from having multiple degrees (some have even have their masters) and people with just a diploma. Some of our highest paid and highest ranking individuals do not have a degree. At the end of the day it's just a sheet of paper.
I realise this may seem unfair to the graduate - they have to start somewhere after all, and I do see the problem here - however it has also been my experience that graduates, whilst they may be incredibly bright, and hard working, and have mastered their degree, are actually a victim of the syllabus for the course, coming out with what is essentially a degree which doesn't provide them with much real-world applicable knowledge. Naturally this is not always the case, and it will vary greatly, but as others have pointed out it is not an infrequent occurrence to come across a very qualified person who can do absolutely nothing at all, other than study well.
False, i dropped out of high school in grade 10 and am self taught in IT for the most part, put me and some college grad in a room and have a high pressure situation come up and watch them fail..
Many self taught people think outside of the box vs "some" people who have certs know how to read a book and write down the answers.
Diversity diploma assignment renders diplomas meaningless. Surprise.
It's called a "glass ceiling". Lot's of companies have them, where you can't be promoted beyond a certain point without a certain degree.
It's one of the dumbest practices I've ever seen from a lot a companies, and 9 out of 10 times at that wall you end up getting a "boss" with a degree who has no clue what he is doing and constantly having to ask those he is in charge of "how do i..."
Just promote the guy who knows what is going on and be done with it.
Ta-da! I did pretty much the same. Dropped out at grade 11, got my GED and started to work. Started in a small computer repair shop and moved up to where I am now in a Data Center for the past 9 years.
I'm the most under qualified person on paper but yet I'm the go to person.
Yet... I have a hard time finding a new higher paying/skill job because I lack a piece of paper that says I went to school.
This.
I know I've been passed over or not been hired for jobs because I didn't have a 4 year degree.
I only have a 2 year degree from the local community college as that's all I could afford.
Because of this, I've worked at smaller companies that value skill and work ethic over a piece of paper.
Over the years I've looked at surveys that show average pay rates by education level, and I've always made significantly more that the average person with a 4 year degree.
Most the time I've even made more than the average person with a masters degree or even a doctorate.
In a way this shows how worthless some degrees are.