Tesla Drastically Increases Supercharger Prices around the World

Yup, and part of that is "winter blend" for gas. I know i get a 10% boost by my second tank of "summer blend".

As a noodle thought, yes pack capacity is reduced in winter, but do you lose "charge"? Or is it like, in ICE terms, your 15 gallon tank gets sectioned off in winter, and you can only fill/drain 10 gallons of it. You dont "lose" 5 gallons.

Part of it is the blend, the other part is it takes more gasoline to fill a tank and run a car when it is cold vs when it is warm because gasoline expands in warm weather due to the warmer temps.. so lets say it takes 1 gallon of gas to fill the gas lines in a car.. in the winter, it will take up to 25% more to fill that same volume than in the summer due to the volume change caused by the temperatures.
 
Part of it is the blend, the other part is it takes more gasoline to fill a tank and run a car when it is cold vs when it is warm because gasoline expands in warm weather due to the warmer temps.. so lets say it takes 1 gallon of gas to fill the gas lines in a car.. in the winter, it will take up to 25% more to fill that same volume than in the summer due to the volume change caused by the temperatures.

2% change in volume per 30 degrees.

It takes more gasoline in the winter to run the vehicle because of winter gas and the computers being programmed poorly and/or sensors being broken/shit.
 
Instead of using gas as a crutch, tax by weight and mileage like many other nations, the damage to the road is a square function of vehicle weight, so heavier cars pay more road taxes.
I only half agree. I agree that the greater weight damages the roads at an increased rate - but only so long as it is being used on the road. Usage - miles on the road - is approximated by fuel use.
 
I only half agree. I agree that the greater weight damages the roads at an increased rate - but only so long as it is being used on the road. Usage - miles on the road - is approximated by fuel use.

A hybrid is heavier and uses less fuel than its non-hybrid counterparts. An older vehicle that is lighter and less aerodynamic will generally use more fuel than newer vehicles that are heavier, more aerodynamic, and have more efficient engines and transmissions. Gas usage is not the best indication of how much wear a vehicle puts on the roads.
 
A hybrid is heavier and uses less fuel than its non-hybrid counterparts. An older vehicle that is lighter and less aerodynamic will generally use more fuel than newer vehicles that are heavier, more aerodynamic, and have more efficient engines and transmissions. Gas usage is not the best indication of how much wear a vehicle puts on the roads.
I said it's an approximation. A proxy. There's nothing except an odometer reading that will be accurate. That's it.
 
I said it's an approximation. A proxy. There's nothing except an odometer reading that will be accurate. That's it.

An approximation that gets increasingly inaccurate as time goes on. Hence the need for a change.
 
An approximation that gets increasingly inaccurate as time goes on. Hence the need for a change.
Disagree. As time goes on - if you believe that the future is in hybrid and all electric - it will once again be an appropriate approximation. Provided that eletric car chargers are assessed a kWh tax.
 
Disagree. As time goes on - if you believe that the future is in hybrid and all electric - it will once again be an appropriate approximation. Provided that eletric car chargers are assessed a kWh tax.

Which is a change. However, how do you tax home chargers?
 
Energy costs are going up, plain and simple. They can’t afford to keep taking losses to make things attractive forever. They were counting on Government interaction and regulation and that never happened.

Wasn't this one of their key selling points/features/benefits?
 
It is very easy to submeter a charger. Easier than trying to collect odometer readings by a great margin.

With all of these new cars being network connected, I somehow doubt it.
 
Wasn't this one of their key selling points/features/benefits?
Even after the price increase at worst it’s like $8 for a charge up from $5, not a bad deal. And people I know who drive Tesla’s aren’t bothered by it and they are hoping it shortens a few lines.
 
A hybrid is heavier and uses less fuel than its non-hybrid counterparts. An older vehicle that is lighter and less aerodynamic will generally use more fuel than newer vehicles that are heavier, more aerodynamic, and have more efficient engines and transmissions. Gas usage is not the best indication of how much wear a vehicle puts on the roads.

A 4 cyl Camry LE weighs 3296 lbs. I Hybrid Camry LE weighs 3472 lbs. A difference of only 176 lbs.
I don't see that extra weight causing any measurable difference in road wear.

A Tesla Model 3 weight 3837, or 365 more than the Camry hybrid or about 10%. Even that shouldn't cause any noticeable increase in wear.

Now if you put 4, 300lb people in the car, that's an extra 1,200 lbs, which might be noticeable :eek:
 
No, they can't.
I don't know what kinda car you're driving, but I've had many, many cars that would go 400+ on a tank. Most I've owned tend to have around 15-16 gallon tanks. All it takes it 25mpg to get that. Shit, my mustang did that on the freeway, and it was a V8.
 
A 4 cyl Camry LE weighs 3296 lbs. I Hybrid Camry LE weighs 3472 lbs. A difference of only 176 lbs.
I don't see that extra weight causing any measurable difference in road wear.

A Tesla Model 3 weight 3837, or 365 more than the Camry hybrid or about 10%. Even that shouldn't cause any noticeable increase in wear.

Now if you put 4, 300lb people in the car, that's an extra 1,200 lbs, which might be noticeable :eek:

And a 1990 Miata that weights 2100 lbs gets about 22-25 mpg, while the Camry hybrid gets up to 53 mpg. Camry weighs 60% more while paying half in fuel taxes. If you want to compare modern, a 2019 Miata weighs 2400 lbs and gets up to 35 mpg. The Camry weighs about 50% more while paying 33% less in road taxes.

Nothing to do with networking of cars.
Everything to do with utility submetering.

Point was that internet connected cars, which seem to be the future standard of electric cars, would have the cars able to phone home their odometer reading automatically. Again, a lot more than just weight affects a car's fuel usage.
 
Our AC power is also half the voltage but it still runs the electrics in our homes just fine, and we also pay much less for our electricity. For $2 if it moves the car it moves the car.
Well yes, but then you just require double the ampage....?
 
All vehicles lose efficiency in the winter, be it ICE or EV. ICE Vehicle's fuel consumption increases 12 to 28% in the winter.

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/efficiency/transportation/21032

It depends on the fuel blend. There are a few stations, around my area, which offer up un-blended fuels during the winter time, which are more efficient than blended fuels. Generally, speeds are reduced so aerodynamic drag becomes less of a factor as well.

Yes, if all things stayed consistent, colder weather would cause lower efficiencies. I should have elaborated.
 
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Expensive cars, low build quality. Servicing options terrible outside of the US. Then they rase prices after firing workers, which means lower quality, slower production etc... Oh Tesla, I want to love you...
 
And a 1990 Miata that weights 2100 lbs gets about 22-25 mpg, while the Camry hybrid gets up to 53 mpg. Camry weighs 60% more while paying half in fuel taxes. If you want to compare modern, a 2019 Miata weighs 2400 lbs and gets up to 35 mpg. The Camry weighs about 50% more while paying 33% less in road taxes.



Point was that internet connected cars, which seem to be the future standard of electric cars, would have the cars able to phone home their odometer reading automatically. Again, a lot more than just weight affects a car's fuel usage.


Don't want a internet connected car so they can track me.

As for a Hybrid paying less in gas taxes, that's one of the incentives to spend more money to buy a more efficient car that puts out less pollution.
 
Don't want a internet connected car so they can track me.

As for a Hybrid paying less in gas taxes, that's one of the incentives to spend more money to buy a more efficient car that puts out less pollution.

... /facepalm
 
a full charge for a Model 3 in MA ran about $13 a few weeks ago, but we started with 80 miles of range. Model 3 gets around 310 miles of range or so. The problem with supercharging is it's not that fast when doing long trips, so the prices they charge are not "inline" or fair for the people who spent 100K on a Tesla, and need to sit for an hour to get enough range to hit the next supercharger. If you buy a top of the line Tesla, you are already subsidizing the supercharger costs which is why the ending of free supercharging for the S & X sucks so much, and then to increase the fees just adds more insult.

TBH Tesla's customer service has plainly sucked the last year and it's not getting any better. There's just no real alternative to them though, and no going back to a shitty ICE box.
Their solar customer service is kinda meh, too. It took them almost a year to actually get a Powerwall to install with my system and then after they installed it, they didn't communicate very clearly about when it was OK to turn it on. You have to wait for approval from your utility, along with any local government authorities before you can use your solar panels, and I kept getting mail that looked like an approval, but I couldn't reach anyone to confirm "Is this the last one? Am I good to go now?"

I think it's just that they've been super successful at marketing and the rest of the company can't keep up with the quantity demanded, but it's a frustrating experience to be sure when you're spending $35K+.
 
I calculated my gas burner at about 6.5 cents a mile. i paid 14 grand for it. that equates to the electric doing about 100mpg roughly equivalent to low octane gas? i thought the electric would do better. just thinking out loud.
In my model 3 I can get 300 miles if I wanted. Never needed to test that though. Furthest I've driven between charging stations on a trip to the Grand canyon was around 260 miles. Was back on the road with 300 miles range in 25 minutes

Charging at home is still the best option at around 2 cents per mile with an electric rate of 12 cents per kw
 
For what, my PC and LCD TV?
There's a reason why, on the old PSUs with a voltage selector switch, here in Europe they would blow if you switched them whilst running from 230v to 110v... And not the other way around.

I don't think you quite get electricity.
 
There's a reason why, on the old PSUs with a voltage selector switch, here in Europe they would blow if you switched them whilst running from 230v to 110v... And not the other way around.

I don't think you quite get electricity.

I do. However, the original discussion was about octane. I believe your octane is computed differently. We use RM/2 here. Germany uses ... something like ROZ or something I can't recall exactly. End of the day, it's not apples to apples. Our fuel is reasonably similar, not the same, but similar.

I'll take the Pepsi challenge on your energy cost on a kWh basis. Germany is what? .35-.40 euro per kWh?
 
That is only effective when you drive in Washington State. When you cross the boarder, you are driving and damaging the roads without paying for the eventual repairs that will be needed. The gas tax assists in road repairs no matter what state you drive in.
A huge majority of road damage (practically all of it) is from heavy vehicles, not cars.
 
I do. However, the original discussion was about octane. I believe your octane is computed differently. We use RM/2 here. Germany uses ... something like ROZ or something I can't recall exactly. End of the day, it's not apples to apples. Our fuel is reasonably similar, not the same, but similar.

I'll take the Pepsi challenge on your energy cost on a kWh basis. Germany is what? .35-.40 euro per kWh?

Well I didn't bring up electricity :) He did...

Actually that's very interesting then about RON vs AKI - just read up on it (the more you know) - so thanks for that. It is a generally, and it seems now, false, belief over here that US fuel is lower octane on average.

To the main point, our electricity AND fuel is massively more expensive than in the US - over there you guys complain about the price, but I dream of being able to pay your prices for fuel :D
 
Last time I supercharged it was $4.68, so now it will go up to about $6. I can live with that. Much better than those $50 fill ups on gas.
Except according to the actual math, in most cases it is pretty much the same cost per mile.
 
Except according to the actual math, in most cases it is pretty much the same cost per mile.

Which would also be OK, if it all worked out financially, AND the electricity was coming from renewable sources - however, it is not, and therein lies the massive hypocrisy of electric cars. I'd be all for it if all power was sourced from renewable sources, and the production / disposal of battery cells wasn't such a filthy business........
 
I calculated my gas burner at about 6.5 cents a mile. i paid 14 grand for it. that equates to the electric doing about 100mpg roughly equivalent to low octane gas? i thought the electric would do better. just thinking out loud.

Model 3 is roughly 2 cents per kwh with electricity @ 12 cents per kwh. I have solar so it's basically free after the cost of the panels
 
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