Tesla Drastically Increases Supercharger Prices around the World

Except for that pesky fact that you are not paying for the roads or their maintenance because you are not paying the gas tax and your battery vehicle is statistically heavier, thus causing more damage to the roads.
Except we do here in WA State, as an added EV fee to our annual registration. Perhaps do a smidge of research before making blanket statements
 
I have a suggestion. Stop taxing gasoline and increase the taxes for the wealthy. Politicians are so scared to tax the wealthy but don't care if gas prices go up. Jeff Bezos is more responsible for tearing up the roads than a Tesla. Those USPS, UPS, and FedEx trucks aren't doing great things for the roads.

If you wanted to truly look like the good guy you should have said you bicycle everywhere. Your laptop, cell phone, and smart watch all use batteries and hence use rare earth minerals, so you ain't no saint. Also we put ethanol in the gas cause it's better for the environment. Trust me it's a lot better than cancer causing MTBE that we used before. If you really wanted to stop wasting food then tell supermarkets to stop throwing away half of it.

I believe bicyclists should be charged a licence and registration fee as well. Anyone over 16 that is. I never claimed to not use rare earth minerals, I just don't believe in using them in massive car batteries. Yes, super markets should be allowed to transfer expired or soon to expire food to homeless shelters with out any repercussions, in other words, if someone gets sick from eating there, the grocery store and the homeless shelter bare no responsibility for that illness.
 
A 33% increase would be equivalent to gas prices going from $3 to $4. Would be interesting to see how the new prices compare to $ per mile with gas, especially hybrids.

Edit: In California at $0.36/kWh, it would come out to be about 14 cents a mile assuming approximately 300 wh/mile with 80% charge efficiency. At $3.75 per gallon gas, a car would only need to get 27 mpg for the same overall cost/mile. An efficient and slow (follows speed limits, regenerative braking as much as possible) driver can get as low as 240 wh/mile in a Model 3, leading to approximately 11 cents a mile and needing a 34 mpg car to match, while a more aggressive and faster driver in a Model X can consume over 400 wh/mile, 18 cents a mile, equivalent to 21 mpg.

PG&E rates for residential houses are 28 cents per kWh at 101-400% baseline, and 43 cents per kWh at >400% baseline. Opting for the peak billing option, charging during off-peak hours is 27 cents per kWh above baseline. Most households are above baseline with regular household stuff, so car charging is almost always done above baseline. Charging at home, you would need a car that gets 27 mpg to match an aggressive Tesla Model X and 44.6 mpg to match an efficient Model 3.

I live in Southern California, and charging at home (SCE) would run me 28 cent/kWh, so using your numbers a model 3 would cost me 11 cents/mile.

I drive a 2013 Camry hybrid that's rated 40/38 mpg. My commute is short so I only average 34 mpg (takes a couple miles of warm up to hit full hybrid mode)
On longer highway trips I usually average 40-45 depending on the speed.
I paid $3.00 gallon for gas last week at local Costco.

That means my city driving cost me 8.8 cents/mile, and highway runs 7.5 to 6.7 cents per mile. All cheaper than an electric car.
Plus my car has a 680 mile range (17 gallon gas tank), which is more than enough to last till my next Costco trip. :p
I could buy a newer Camry hybrid or a Prius and lower my cost by another 20%. :eek:

Yet I work with people who think charging their electric car is so much cheaper than buying gas. :rolleyes:
It's only cheaper if you have some place you can charge for free.
 
Except we do here in WA State, as an added EV fee to our annual registration. Perhaps do a smidge of research before making blanket statements
That is only effective when you drive in Washington State. When you cross the boarder, you are driving and damaging the roads without paying for the eventual repairs that will be needed. The gas tax assists in road repairs no matter what state you drive in.
 
Joust said:
115 kWh is nothing to scoff at. On a residential scale, that's significant.

At my house, that would be about $15.

I wish I could buy 200 miles' worth of fuel for my Mustang that cheap. Even in Texas, it'd be more like $25-$30. More if you insist on premium gas.

I used 486 kwh last month. Cost me $100.94 due to the high prices here in California :mad:
 
If the car has 100 kWh battery, at 36 cents per kilowatt hour, that's $36 to charge it up all the way. Probably about on par with gas for a car the size of a Model S, maybe a little less. That's in Texas, though, where gas is currently under $2 a gallon.

My house has solar, but my cost from the grid is about 12 cents per kilowatt hour, so if I had a Tesla, it'd be hugely cheaper if I didn't have to use Tesla's charger to charge it. I don't really see a problem with Tesla making the Super chargers a little pricy. My understanding is that they're not really supposed to be how you usually charge the car.

I'm also under the impression that electric cars are also (in theory) cheaper to maintain over the thousands of miles.

Supposedly it's also to expand the supercharger framework. Investing in more travel flexibility.
 
Except we do here in WA State, as an added EV fee to our annual registration. Perhaps do a smidge of research before making blanket statements


EV's don't pay extra in California, although out clueless legislature keeps talking about imposing a surcharge not just on electrics but on hybrids too. Not just plugin hybrids but regular hybrids that only use gas. They don't seem to understand the difference.
 
Yes, super markets should be allowed to transfer expired or soon to expire food to homeless shelters with out any repercussions, in other words, if someone gets sick from eating there, the grocery store and the homeless shelter bare no responsibility for that illness.

I know someone who volunteers at a food pantry for the poor/homeless.
They have to throw out any food that has expired (state law), even if it's something like crackers or bread that expired yesterday but is perfectly fine.
Rather then throw the expired food out, they let the volunteers take it home. My friend gets several meals a week for free, and the food is fine.
 
I know someone who volunteers at a food pantry for the poor/homeless.
They have to throw out any food that has expired (state law), even if it's something like crackers or bread that expired yesterday but is perfectly fine.
Rather then throw the expired food out, they let the volunteers take it home. My friend gets several meals a week for free, and the food is fine.

I guarantee you I have expired food in my fridge right now and I don't mean a day or two expired, I probably have yogurt that is months beyond the date, it's still fine. The simple fact is, unless it's growing something or smells bad, it's ok to eat.
 
I'm also under the impression that electric cars are also (in theory) cheaper to maintain over the thousands of miles.

Supposedly it's also to expand the supercharger framework. Investing in more travel flexibility.


In theory maintenance should be cheaper on an electric.
However, if you by a reliable ICE/Hybrid, there isn't much maintenance or repairs on newer cars.
An unreliable electric car could easily end up costing more than a reliable ICE/Hybrid

Both electric and ice have brakes and tires that will need to be replaced.
They both also have wheel bearings, air conditioning system, etc.

Brakes on a hybrid should last just as long as an electric as both do regenerative braking.

My Camry hybrid goes 10,000 miles between oil changes (uses synthetic oil)
At the current rate of wear, the brakes should last 150,000 to 200,000 miles.
(only got 70,000 miles out of the brakes of my ice Camry)
Based on other Toyota's I've owned, I expect 10+ years with little or no repair expenses.

I wouldn't expect an electric car to be much better than that.
 
I guarantee you I have expired food in my fridge right now and I don't mean a day or two expired, I probably have yogurt that is months beyond the date, it's still fine. The simple fact is, unless it's growing something or smells bad, it's ok to eat.

I wouldn't go that far, but I did use some eggs today that had a buy by date of 3 weeks ago. They are usually good for at least a month, depending on how fresh they where when I bough them.
 
This is a lie. With my model 3 I might lose a total of 20 to 30 miles or 10% of battery charge with heater going.

I will say the statement would be true for my previous even which was a 2012 Nissan leaf
I have a coworker that would like to disagree with you. When it is cold, she can't run her heater without suffering significant battery loss. She keeps blankets in the car just so she doesn't have to run the heater. Also, her car uses more energy or to say it differently, doesn't last as long when it is cold. Several other folks report the same thing. Electric cars will never be as efficient as ice cars. They are not feasible for long distance travel, nor are the usable anywhere the temperature dips below 40 degrees for any length of time.
 
I have a coworker that would like to disagree with you. When it is cold, she can't run her heater without suffering significant battery loss. She keeps blankets in the car just so she doesn't have to run the heater. Also, her car uses more energy or to say it differently, doesn't last as long when it is cold. Several other folks report the same thing. Electric cars will never be as efficient as ice cars. They are not feasible for long distance travel, nor are the usable anywhere the temperature dips below 40 degrees for any length of time.

That's just dumb. Buy a luxury vehicle, and then use blankets in order to save a dollar on heating up the car.
 
This is good, places that have overuse and a bunch of leechers causing huge lines at SuperChargers will have to change their behavior to make room for people who really need them for their long distance trips.
 
This is actually an interesting dynamic. Wholesale energy is actually cheaper than it's ever been. You can, on a utility scale, build a solar plant that can generate electricity for <$0.02/kWh.

T&D and peaking have gotten much more expensive though. The problem with that $0.02/kWh is that sometimes you don't want all that energy and have to find a place for it -- so either your paying for someone to idle a power plant and buy it (and yes, there are times where wholesale electric prices go negative), or you pay for installed storage to bank it.
In BC during that time we run pumps to pump water back up into the water reserves at the hydro plants so we can crank the gates open when the rates go up.
 
Wow $3.75 a gallon? I filled up the other day for $2.15

Try the equivalent of about USD$6.20 here in Germany.

Mind you, it's decent stuff, not that pathetically low octane strained out dishcloth water you guys call fuel
 
Model 3 uses the heat from the motors to heat the battery so it's more efficient. However, you just haven't driven in cold enough temperatures for long enough periods of time

My Model S would lose over 40% of capacity once it dropped below 30. My Model X with 5 people hit 450wh/m the other night going down the mountains in snowy weather

The colder it gets, the less range you have.

I live in colorado and have driven it in negative temps before ;)
 
I have a coworker that would like to disagree with you. When it is cold, she can't run her heater without suffering significant battery loss. She keeps blankets in the car just so she doesn't have to run the heater. Also, her car uses more energy or to say it differently, doesn't last as long when it is cold. Several other folks report the same thing. Electric cars will never be as efficient as ice cars. They are not feasible for long distance travel, nor are the usable anywhere the temperature dips below 40 degrees for any length of time.

I drove my Model 3 to the grand canyon from northern colorado this thanksgiving. Temps ranged from teens to 40. Drove distances of 260 miles between supercharges with the heater going. Not sure what your co-worker's doing.
 
Yet I work with people who think charging their electric car is so much cheaper than buying gas. :rolleyes:
It's only cheaper if you have some place you can charge for free.

Depends on where you live. In Houston its $0.12/kWh. Costco near me sells Regular for $1.82/gal and 93 for $2.21/gal. So its marginally more for gas. But when prices were $2.50/gal min then yea the Tesla's were much more attractive. I almost bought the Model X but I hate the overall fit and finish and it just doesnt work for me. I think thats one of the things Tesla really needs to work on is fit and finish. Which also leads to their issues with service and reliability.
 
A 33% increase would be equivalent to gas prices going from $3 to $4. Would be interesting to see how the new prices compare to $ per mile with gas, especially hybrids.

Edit: In California at $0.36/kWh, it would come out to be about 14 cents a mile assuming approximately 300 wh/mile with 80% charge efficiency. At $3.75 per gallon gas, a car would only need to get 27 mpg for the same overall cost/mile. An efficient and slow (follows speed limits, regenerative braking as much as possible) driver can get as low as 240 wh/mile in a Model 3, leading to approximately 11 cents a mile and needing a 34 mpg car to match, while a more aggressive and faster driver in a Model X can consume over 400 wh/mile, 18 cents a mile, equivalent to 21 mpg.

PG&E rates for residential houses are 28 cents per kWh at 101-400% baseline, and 43 cents per kWh at >400% baseline. Opting for the peak billing option, charging during off-peak hours is 27 cents per kWh above baseline. Most households are above baseline with regular household stuff, so car charging is almost always done above baseline. Charging at home, you would need a car that gets 27 mpg to match an aggressive Tesla Model X and 44.6 mpg to match an efficient Model 3.

$3.75 per gallon gas1?!?!? I filled up for $1.66/gal yesterday... Guess I'll stick to red states... That contrast is ridiculous!
 
Tesla couldn't keep burning cash subsidizing these things forever. Can't keep adding to a nationwide network if each new site increases the cash drain. And it isn't just the power costs. In a lot of places, the lease/rental cost of the real estate required for a site probably is larger then the power costs.
 
No, they can't.

Not sure what the actual range of any EV car is today, but at an average speed of 68MPH I can get over 500 miles out of a 15 gallon tank of gas. Under 60, I can easily hit 600 miles. Usually gets better when it gets colder.

If I am lucky enough to find a gas station which is not blending its fuel (there are still a few), then I can get alomst 650 miles out of a tank of gas.


In theory maintenance should be cheaper on an electric.
However, if you by a reliable ICE/Hybrid, there isn't much maintenance or repairs on newer cars.
An unreliable electric car could easily end up costing more than a reliable ICE/Hybrid

Both electric and ice have brakes and tires that will need to be replaced.
They both also have wheel bearings, air conditioning system, etc.

Brakes on a hybrid should last just as long as an electric as both do regenerative braking.

My Camry hybrid goes 10,000 miles between oil changes (uses synthetic oil)
At the current rate of wear, the brakes should last 150,000 to 200,000 miles.
(only got 70,000 miles out of the brakes of my ice Camry)
Based on other Toyota's I've owned, I expect 10+ years with little or no repair expenses.

I wouldn't expect an electric car to be much better than that.

Cannot speak to the repair costs of an EV, but the last Lexus we had required nothing more than tires, brakes, oil, filters. and a couple of batteries during the 200,000 miles it was driven. That was a 2006 model.
 
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....and a gas car can most likely go twice as far on a tank of gas. something No one mentions.
Depends on the car and driving conditions. The Tesla would likely beat my gas guzzling V8-powered Mustang in my use case.
 
Now 2016 and older will skyrocket in price since they have free supercharging for life.
 
Not sure what the actual range of any EV car is today, but at an average speed of 68MPH I can get over 500 miles out of a 15 gallon tank of gas. Under 60, I can easily hit 600 miles. Usually gets better when it gets colder.

If I am lucky enough to find a gas station which is not blending its fuel (there are still a few), then I can get alomst 650 miles out of a tank of gas.




Cannot speak to the repair costs of an EV, but the last Lexus we had required nothing more than tires, brakes, oil, filters. and a couple of batteries during the 200,000 miles it was driven. That was a 2006 model.


All vehicles lose efficiency in the winter, be it ICE or EV. ICE Vehicle's fuel consumption increases 12 to 28% in the winter.

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/efficiency/transportation/21032
 
All vehicles lose efficiency in the winter, be it ICE or EV. ICE Vehicle's fuel consumption increases 12 to 28% in the winter.

https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/efficiency/transportation/21032

Yup, and part of that is "winter blend" for gas. I know i get a 10% boost by my second tank of "summer blend".

As a noodle thought, yes pack capacity is reduced in winter, but do you lose "charge"? Or is it like, in ICE terms, your 15 gallon tank gets sectioned off in winter, and you can only fill/drain 10 gallons of it. You dont "lose" 5 gallons.
 
when there is plenty of dino blood for fuel which can be extracted using safe methods. Sorry, I'll keep driving my ice vehicle until they pry it from my cold, dead hands.

But there really isn't. I'd have to relook at the forecast numbers, but last I heard we only have enough oil to last us until 2040. Unless you are planning to die in the next 21 years, the prying will commence.
 
But there really isn't. I'd have to relook at the forecast numbers, but last I heard we only have enough oil to last us until 2040. Unless you are planning to die in the next 21 years, the prying will commence.

Look up the texas mother load they found in 2017/2018 that they havent even tapped into yet. Once they start tappin, they can increase production "one California's worth of output" every year. At this point, the USA can be an exporter for the next 75 years.

2040, is for some of the major saudi sections which we have relied on since opec started, where they are literally pumping in more sea water than they are getting oil out, just to keep the pressure up.
 
But there really isn't. I'd have to relook at the forecast numbers, but last I heard we only have enough oil to last us until 2040. Unless you are planning to die in the next 21 years, the prying will commence.

There are several companies researching biofuels. I would rather see biofuels developed rather than being reliant on lithium-based battery tech.
 
Try the equivalent of about USD$6.20 here in Germany.

Mind you, it's decent stuff, not that pathetically low octane strained out dishcloth water you guys call fuel
Our AC power is also half the voltage but it still runs the electrics in our homes just fine, and we also pay much less for our electricity. For $2 if it moves the car it moves the car.
 
Considering these stations are about convenience, it's not surprising. Just like buying food/etc at a gas station, it'll cost more than if you charged at home.
 
My Kei truck gets 39 mpg at $2.59 per gallon currently Costs basically nothing. Vehicle cost was less than $6k
 
I live in Southern California, and charging at home (SCE) would run me 28 cent/kWh, so using your numbers a model 3 would cost me 11 cents/mile.

...

Yet I work with people who think charging their electric car is so much cheaper than buying gas. :rolleyes:
It's only cheaper if you have some place you can charge for free.
Well I'm not sure what SoCal Edison's plans are but I'm assuming you're talking about your traditional plan.

Up here in No.Cal, PG&rapEyourwallet actually does have ToU EV plans. And the off-peak prices are like 12-12.5c/Kwh which is less than 5cents/mile (assume your math was correct). So it can in fact be quite a bit cheaper than gas. That said the peak rates are pretty obnoxiously high, but IMO it's a trade off. If you want to just use electricity crazy like normal and then also put a vehicle on there that uses crazy amounts too, then you're going to end up paying more for that electricity somewhere.


For some though the idea of electric cars are kind of like that for hybrid cars, it's less about the "gas savings" as long as it's not grossly different and more about the pollution aspect. And while yeah electricity comes from somewhere and that somewhere may be a coal fired power plant (and ironically those places that use them tend to have cheaper rates), but that coal fired powerplant isn't in your back yard, Southern California sunsets are not super pretty because that's the way the Sun sets, they're pretty because of all the pollution in the air makes it look so vibrantly red & orange. Being able to drive with the window down and enjoying fresh air is probably something people would rather have rather than having your eyes irritated and your throat burn because of all the pollution that is primarily due to cars sitting in traffic chugging out gas fumes.
 
That is only effective when you drive in Washington State. When you cross the boarder, you are driving and damaging the roads without paying for the eventual repairs that will be needed. The gas tax assists in road repairs no matter what state you drive in.

Instead of using gas as a crutch, tax by weight and mileage like many other nations, the damage to the road is a square function of vehicle weight, so heavier cars pay more road taxes.
 
Instead of using gas as a crutch, tax by weight and mileage like many other nations, the damage to the road is a square function of vehicle weight, so heavier cars pay more road taxes.

only helps if thats what its spent on and not pushed somewhere else by the gov't.
 
I know someone who volunteers at a food pantry for the poor/homeless.
They have to throw out any food that has expired (state law), even if it's something like crackers or bread that expired yesterday but is perfectly fine.
Rather then throw the expired food out, they let the volunteers take it home. My friend gets several meals a week for free, and the food is fine.

Little mini packs of crackers don't "expire" they have a "best by" date. These are 2 completely different things. They are packed in nitrogen, they'll never really "expire."

What a waste.
 
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