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We all like an underdog story but the reality is, people usually vote their wallet whoever is on top for the time being, currently it is Nvidia. When you are competing only the 2nd best the competition has to offer, people will look at you as the 2nd best.
serial__thrilla
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I don't disagree. But this is Day 0, this is just an announcement, there is no test data to be looked at. All I'm saying is that everyone needs to relax their buttcheeks and wait for some concrete data before raising hell on public forums.
This is just my personal opinion, but looking at all the things AMD has been doing for the past year or so, I see a pretty clear glimmer of hope that they will come out on top.
Without a doubt, nVidia has the clockspeeds and absolutely blistering performance, but what have they been doing lately? They've been fucking raising the prices on their cards like nobody's business!
The fucking GeForce GTX 2080 Ti is fucking $1200! What he mother fuck, you would say. But the sad truth of it is they are compensating for their stocks dropping from (this is just a rough estimate as an example) something like $300 down to $150.
Many millionaire investors lost SHITLOADS, MOUNDS of money on nVidia's stocks. There is to be a class action lawsuit against them, because of what they told their big-time investors.
So take it as you will, but I am very optimistic for AMD's CPU and GPU products future.
Again, this is my personal opinion (and I could be wrong).
Agreed, but at the same time, AMD needs to set a tone and the tone today was just "meh", for me it has to do more with pricing then they finally catching up to 1080Ti performance.
I am not sure why you brought up stock prices since AMD also took a 40% hit to their stock prices ($32 to $20), not sure why you single Nvidia out when the Semiconductor sector took a huge hit in the last quarter.
As for the class action lawsuit, I cannot comment on that since I don't know the much about the lawsuit.
serial__thrilla
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Hmm, not sure what made you think I hold any of either company's stock. I do try to follow the news, and stock-related stuff.
My message to people is just relax, drink a beer, watch a movie and wait for the likes of Gamers Nexus to post actual test data before losing your shit on the forums. That is all.
(I mean, 1 TB/s memory bandwidth on the videocard, holy fucking shit, that is awesome! Don't be so fucking negative.)
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Hmm, not sure what made you think I hold any of either company's stock. I do try to follow the news, and stock-related stuff.
Apology if I misread it, it just sounds like you are equating Nvidia current 2000 series pricing to their stock price dropping in your previous post, I just thought it was weird to bring it up since the whole semiconductor sector was also tanking.
Also, not my business what stocks you hold.
I do share your optimism regarding AMD CPU, it is nice to see them firing on all cylinders and I do think it is nice that Intel getting back on its feet with its 10nm debacle, 2019 may shape up to be a great year for both company CPU. I just don't share your AMD GPU optimism as they are still chasing Nvidia, it has been a long time since AMD didn't need to chase Nvidia for top crown and I miss that since that usually means better GPU pricing for everyone.
serial__thrilla
Limp Gawd
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What I think is that AMD and Lisa are just being extremely politically correct and secretive. I have a sneaking suspicion that they already have something super-cool in the works for their GPU., but they're just really watching and guarding what they say and show. They're just being super-super-careful to not give away anything before they themselves are ready to reveal it. I think we'll be seeing something really amazing yet, we just have to FUCKING RELAX!!!!! and give it time. LOL
serial__thrilla
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I just see so much negativity on these forums... It's not yet deserved, if at all. Lisa has had a great presentation, the crowd was very much with her, and I feel AMD's brand new GPU doesn't deserve all this preemptive negativity just yet, cause noone knows shit about it. All we know is what Lisa said on stage, which to be honest, was not much, but again, I felt like she was really carefully watching what she said and showed. But I feel like AMD has left all the juicy details out on purpose, and they want to wait for the actual tech reviewer websites (which are all over YouTube) to receive the actual videocard samples, review the shit outta them and post the results.
We know price and performance are about the same as RTX 2080. 2080 was shat upon big time for its poor price/performance ratio, so it only makes sense that Vega 7 would get similar treatment.
serial__thrilla
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And I think that is unfair and unnecessary negativity. I think we all should wait for the test results reports before losing our minds. (what was it, a 39% compute performance increase? I'd say that ain't so bad).
The nice thing is probably can wait for Hardocp review to make purchase decision. With bticoin craze hopefully over for the foreseeable shouldn't have to by any new GPU release on day 0.
The games does make the price somewhat reasonable, but main things I will look for before buying:
1. How it will Overclock (7nm TSMC vs 14nm Glofo hopefully means that's there some OC headroom)
2. 4k performance (~60fps using high settings in most current games would wet my appetite. Especially on Wticher3 and GTA5 which to me are ROPs limited on Vega64 so ~50fps would be a good showing)
3. If a $500 8GB version will come out soon after
The games does make the price somewhat reasonable, but main things I will look for before buying:
1. How it will Overclock (7nm TSMC vs 14nm Glofo hopefully means that's there some OC headroom)
2. 4k performance (~60fps using high settings in most current games would wet my appetite. Especially on Wticher3 and GTA5 which to me are ROPs limited on Vega64 so ~50fps would be a good showing)
3. If a $500 8GB version will come out soon after
GoldenTiger
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It goes for 1000 base. Nice hyperbole.
??
AMDs own slides show ~parity with RTX2080. How it is unfair to use AMDs own marketing? Have they ever unfairly reported AMD GPU performance on the low side?
It should, but good luck.
Interestingly, I was just checking to see if EVGA still had the $999 model, and they just raised the price $100 it seems. $999 model is now mysteriously $1099: https://www.evga.com/products/produ...=GeForce+20+Series+Family&chipset=RTX+2080+Ti
A better price to performance ratio would be something. Outside of people simply not wanting to buy into the anti-competitive practices of Nvidia, there's no real reason to buy a card that's the same price for the same performance. Few have actually demonstrated they care about the anti-competitive practices, so business will go on as usual.
I personally believe it is impressive that they managed to squeeze that out on a die shrink. They are targeting gamers and content creators with this card which makes the 16gb vram understandable as well as 4k on newer games needing more than 8gb vram. Prices of everything are going up and AMD has much lower margins than nvidia does.
Ya I have no brand loyalty. I would come back to AMD in a second if they had something faster than my RTX Titan.
I got the same bundle with my 590. The bundle REQUIRES you to have the card installed and actually checks your system for the card; I tried to claim the games in mymgtx 980ti rig and got an error message stating the 590 wasn't detected in my system, so I put the 590 in my gaming rig to collect the bundle then took it out, as I bought the card for a budget steamer I was building, not my gaming rig, but wanted the games. It would be hard to do this and sell the games, that's why they do it. I actually emailed AMD customer support to ask why, and they said it was basically to deter crypto miners buying up the cards then selling the games.
It didn't affect me since I could simply install the card for validation, get the games validated, and move the card, but it's quite difficult to resell the games easily.
misterbobby
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You can get those games cheaper on many of the key sites. Plus if you dont want the games it might be hard to sell them since its tied to having the AMD card. For instance the games that came with the 570, 580 and 590 require you to have one of those cards in your system to claim and activate the game.
KazeoHin
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Man, I hope this card overclocks well. I'm looking for something just a BIT more powerful for a singe-card upgrade to my two Titans.
If you can squeeze about 10% more performance out of it I may buy one and waterblock it.
If you can squeeze about 10% more performance out of it I may buy one and waterblock it.
I'm not really disappointed or excited. People seem really negative today without a lot of justification. I'll wait for benchmarks and mature drivers before deciding. Heck, I kind of have to. Building a Zen 2 threadripper rig as soon as it comes out, my ancient 3570k workstation is in need of replacement. I hope to go full team red, and two Vega 7s being comparable to a 2080ti sounds worth it to me just to give ngreedia the bird. But if the Vega 7 doesn't pan out as it looks like it could, I'll just go with a single 2080ti. I wanted a titan since it'll be a workstation for work and my gaming rig, but at the price there isn't any reality I can justify buying a Titan. Heck, I'd get two 2080tis before buying a Titan, but that's still a crazy amount of money to spend, even if it isn't my money I'm spending.
misterbobby
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Maybe you should learn to read a little bit closer as the justification for being negative has been explained. If you wanted this level of performance you could have had it for nearly 2 years now with a 1080 ti and at the same price and lower power consumption. And the 2080 can be had for about the same price and at least offers DLSS and Ray Tracing along with virtual link for VR users. The Vega 7 is a gpu that makes no sense releasing at 700 bucks at this point.
D
Deleted member 204526
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We're really feeling the end of Moore's Law now. It's like the final few feet of a tractor pull when it comes to GPU and CPU performance.
It seems like people here should realize this by now, but there seems to be eternal surprise and disappointment when new parts arrive and don't blow the doors off the previous generation like in days gone by. These products are operating at the margins of what is physically possible with silicon architecture. Newsflash: the next generation after this one is going to be an even bigger disappointment—unless the technological singularity hits between now and then.
It seems like people here should realize this by now, but there seems to be eternal surprise and disappointment when new parts arrive and don't blow the doors off the previous generation like in days gone by. These products are operating at the margins of what is physically possible with silicon architecture. Newsflash: the next generation after this one is going to be an even bigger disappointment—unless the technological singularity hits between now and then.
its fucking amazing to me that you recommend one card for 700 and not another for similar performance. 1080ti could have been had 2 years ago why the fuck buy 2080 for shitty as RTX and DLSucks that is nowhere to be seen. Mind boggling how you compare one and not other. RTX and DLSS are there but there is one fuckin game to show for and only good for 1080p with a 700 dollar card. DLSS oh wait it already shows it blurrs texture if you look hard enough but wont work with your fanboy glasses though. Hey lets knock on AMD for delivering similar performance to 2080 but lets not knock on nvidia for doing the same shit. Lets brag about features that are barely useful and nowhere to be found. Lets buy on hope that one day you will get every game with DLSS, which isn't going to happen. Please go ahead and keep fighting your fanboy wars.
Yea 2080 is a great card for price and yes vega 2 will be a great card as well with 16GB HBM2 buffer and well suited for content creations where it can fit large files in buffer. So they both meat buyers needs, why keep pushing this shit about rtx and dlss. Let me know when there are 20-30 brand new games that support rtx and dlss. First of if you want rtx you buy 2080ti and dont even give me crap about dlss, fuck upscaling give me real resolution. Nvidia could have stuck more cuda cores and not need dlss but they decided they were going to introduce another proprietary feature that requires manual intervention.
Honestly this card makes sense for amd to have something out there to have some sort of performance comparison. But it makes no sense for you. For others they can decide for themselves.
RTX - I have it I can use it to see pretty shadows even if I cant play it higher than 1080p.
DLSS- I am waiting we will see maybe in another 5 months we will have 2 games that support it. waiting waiting waitng, what else can I tell myself to justify this purchase? hmm. lol
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I think the keys to AMDs future where well laid out by Sue today.
They made some big bets 3-5 years ago design wise. In 2019 they are going to pay off.
No VII was not that bet... and she showed off a working chiplett. They also in a round about way hinted strongly that Ryzen IPC is about to lay the boots to Intel.. by showing off an equally cored ryzen slightly edging out the Intel chip. By using the 5.0ghz Intel part I think that is a safe take away. I doubt they busted out fancy cooling to push their ryzen system over 5. So at same core same clock Ryzen 2 looks to be Intels better.... which hasn't been true in a long time.
Back to the GPUs though... AMD still needs to make money for the first half of 2019. VII should help them make some money. She mentioned more GPUs will be coming in 2019... and I assume as has been suggested Navi is more a mid to second half of 2019 part. Announcing a 200-300 dollar card that can best a 2070 in January if you can't ship them in volume until mid year would be really stupid... if you where still trying to make a few bucks in the mean time.
I believe Sue walked a pretty fine line.. hinting that ya some big things are happening later in the year, while not tanking current sales while everyone waits for those parts. If she had came out guns blazing and announcing products for 2 quarters down the road... how would that help AMD, they need to keep moving product. Not have every potential customer hold out for another 6 months.
They made some big bets 3-5 years ago design wise. In 2019 they are going to pay off.
No VII was not that bet... and she showed off a working chiplett. They also in a round about way hinted strongly that Ryzen IPC is about to lay the boots to Intel.. by showing off an equally cored ryzen slightly edging out the Intel chip. By using the 5.0ghz Intel part I think that is a safe take away. I doubt they busted out fancy cooling to push their ryzen system over 5. So at same core same clock Ryzen 2 looks to be Intels better.... which hasn't been true in a long time.
Back to the GPUs though... AMD still needs to make money for the first half of 2019. VII should help them make some money. She mentioned more GPUs will be coming in 2019... and I assume as has been suggested Navi is more a mid to second half of 2019 part. Announcing a 200-300 dollar card that can best a 2070 in January if you can't ship them in volume until mid year would be really stupid... if you where still trying to make a few bucks in the mean time.
I believe Sue walked a pretty fine line.. hinting that ya some big things are happening later in the year, while not tanking current sales while everyone waits for those parts. If she had came out guns blazing and announcing products for 2 quarters down the road... how would that help AMD, they need to keep moving product. Not have every potential customer hold out for another 6 months.
misterbobby
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That is truly one of the most ignorant generalizations I have seen in a while. Nvidia made IPC improvements, added more cores and tmus, added RT cores, added tensor cores on what is essentially just a tweaked 16nm process. That is mighty damn impressive and innovative but of course you will pay quite a bit for that. AMD is doing a great job with the CPU side of things and Ryzen 3000 series will certainly be nice improvement. Vega on the hand is not impressive at all and even going from 14nm to 7nm still ends up with the same power usage just from having higher clocks even pushing less cores. That is a fucking joke to ask 700 bucks for that.
misterbobby
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Ok lets see if I can address your reply since you fail at basic comprehension and paying attention to context. In your brain, all you could come up with is the fanboy argument when that does not have a goddamn thing to do with it.
One point was that we already had the 1080 ti for this price for nearly 2 years. Vega 7 does NOTHING to move things forward in any way.
Another is that he RTX 2080 is already a fucking joke for the price and I certainly complained about it many times. I personally care nothing about ray tracing or DLSS. Vega 7 though releases at the same price you can get a 2080 for but again has NOTHING special to offer. DLSS, Ray Tracing and Virtual link for VR at least have some forward looking tech that can be utilized more later this year.
In case you still have trouble comprehending, I think the 2080 is a ripoff and AMD had a chance to at least come in at a better price point but they didnt and offer less features to boot.
this is well put. She sure did. They are basically selling some MI50 cards to gamers and letting other scheduled launches finalize. Es sample matching 9900k was epic. I think CPU is where they are going to win some big share this year. Also Navi could be mid range beast, may be they will decide to launch a big Navi as well if it indeed improves much better than vega until the next gen card comes out. Lisa also said in interview afterwards they do have Ray tracing in the works both hardware and software wise.
Thank you, now this I can comprehend since you failed to express your feelings in this way in the post I had quoted. Why not say this in the first place? You are right RTX is a forward looking tech but at this stage it really is not something that makes it brake it. Honestly as I said this card is geared towards both gamers and content creators. So either way they will likely sell each one they make and I am sure they know what they are buying. You have to understand AMD came out with something to appeal to people that want amd to release something. True competition will honestly start mid 2019. Also next year is where AMD will likely make some big rasterization improvements on their next gen architecture. Lisa has also stated in interview after the CES keynote that AMD is working on their on ray tracing hardware and software based. Its PCworld interview that they posted.
N4CR
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I could see AMD selling these for $599 MSRP without games within a few months of launch if they don't sell too well. 2080 vs VII is a close race for appeal even to me and that's coming from an AMD-leaning guy, so it really comes down to business ethics at that point considering RT/DLSS is a nothing feature right now and RT will likely continue to be the same going forward, especially with the performance hit on the 2000 series cards. I feel the VII will age better with more ram on more edge-ish cases though, like 780Ti vs 290X. That said the games are appealing to me and would probably swing the decision firmly.
Regarding 'validating Nvidia price increase' one has to look at it from a business POV. If AMD cuts prices, now Nvidia has to cut prices.
Then both companies bleed.
Right now they are competitive, why not make as many sheckels as possible and keep the prices up as long as possible, then go to the discount war.
No wonder Jensen was so salty, he knows now he has to drop prices eventually, it's inevitable, then out the window goes his 50-100% pricing increase goal he mentioned two years ago which means shitty investors and further share price issues perhaps.
bluesynk
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looks at my 2 year old 1080ti, nope not yet.
CombatChrisNC
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Did I miss something or are they only releasing ONE 7nm card at the flagship level? Nothing in any of the other price brackets?
gigaxtreme1
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Since these are cutdowns from the full 64 compute core chips expect lower count compute core chips to come out and full 64 core as well. Using slightly marginal die chips will optmize yield in the meantime. Datacenter is where the margins are at.
cageymaru
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They just announced one card for now. Besides the one card, everything else is still in development with a Summer 2019 release date. Might hear more about new video cards then. AMD typically launches new video cards for the back-to-school crowd.
Well they rolled out their new laptop APUs and Chromebooks, but I figured you weren't clamoring for one of those. They also announced real AMD drivers for their laptops which is actually a big deal as people were really angry with OEM manufacturers dragging their feet on driver releases.
CombatChrisNC
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Yup. Specifically in the 150-250 range. Basically all the 1050ti-1060/590 competition. Son's got an AMD 7850 showing its age and he's got some x-mas money burning a hole in his pocket. If nothing's coming soon I think I'll steer him into a used 1060 I found used on this forum.
D
Deleted member 204526
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You actually support my point. It takes a lot of work to get generation-to-generation incremental improvements that aren't near the large leaps we used to see. And all that work takes a lot of investment and its complexity makes production a pain, which is why we're seeing prices remain high despite the smaller improvements. There just isn't much headroom left using current technology.
RanceJustice
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I think AMD can greatly benefit in the long term by dropping prices. First, both companies have been guilty of taking advantage of the mining boom to normalize higher prices for a long period of time. Nvidia, in their trademark lack-of-ethics has gone even further with the pricing of the RTX 2000 series being orders of magnitude even beyond the previous series! For AMD to continue to normalize these higher prices is the kind of short term solution that benefits for the moment, but hurts them in the long run. AMD usually has "ethics" on their side (ie FreeSync, OpenCL, their Linux drivers etc) etc... but their lack an absolute top end Ti competitor has meant that Nvidia has gone about branding themselves as "the real company for gamers who aren't poor. " and despite AMD having competitive cards - even prior to R7 - at all other levels over the past generation, it has become something of a meme no doubt pushed even further by Nvidia advertising dollars, with cards used in various "influencers" builds, reviews, and more.
Its great that Radeon 7 / Vega 2 competes with the RTX 2080, but once again AMD is coming "late to the game" in the RTX 2080 is already available for sale; just as how Vega RX arrived with the 1070 and 1080 already present. So people who aren't avid AMD fans see a late coming AMD card that performs comparably to the same 2080, not to mention's Nvidia's marketing garbage, are more likely to buy Nvidia. Furthermore, even older NV card owners - like those with 1080 Ti - won't see this as a real motivation to switch over since neither the 2080 nor the Radeon 7 could be the kind of improvement across the board to justify spending more. AMD also has to consider that because of this kind of thing, there are also 1080 Ti and certainly RX Vegas available on the market used and refurbished, for much less than is being asked and may be "close enough" for many who don't have very specific needs?
All of these plus some other factors combined can be combated if AMD lowers the price of the Radeon 7 / Vega 2 from the start. A $100-200 difference is enough to definitely get potential buyers for that tier to pick AMD over NV, and it lowers the price gap between older used/refurb cards to the point it seems viable. This will also bring a ton of attention to AMD and likely motivate sales, getting the Radeon 7 into the wild and used in the kind of marketing opportunities that can help push back against the "AMD GPUs all kinda suck in comparison" meme. Furthermore, AMD can point their fingers at the additional spiking of prices over the past generation or two and especially Nvidia's taking it even further with RTX 2000, winning "hearts and minds" by not just going along with those trends. Selling X R7's at $700 is not as viable as selling 2X, 3X or more at $500-600 ; the'll make it up in volume, especially if they can get not just self-builders but OEMs and integrators using their cards more which come with both performance and price.
Many are sick of Nvidia's ethos, the HUGE price jacking and midding response of the RTX 2000 lineup etc.. so its up to AMD to capitalize on this. They last time they had RX Vega (and before that, Fury) they did the same thing they're looking to do now - the "We have a pretty...competitive thing, lets price it as high as we can and cash out!", only for Nvidia to smirk at the jonny-come-lately, drop their (already jacked prices) and make it seem like AMD can't win on raw power or price performance. This time there's the potential for that NOT to happen, but AMD has to be smart about this and the short term route to profit could mean missing out on major benefits in the longer term; I'd like to see them do better.