IdiotInCharge
NVIDIA SHILL
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2003
- Messages
- 14,675
i like amd 75W card price 100-150 euro
this push for higher price need to stop.
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i like amd 75W card price 100-150 euro
this push for higher price need to stop.
They had to do it, they have 6 months of old inventory to sell, but have to release the new stuff before AMD. Nvidia fucked this one up, especially if AMD hits them with low prices.
I mean, ImI as salty as the next guy who has more sense than money, but, really, nVidia fucking nailed it. They shifted all their old stock without reducing any prices, and they managed to sell current generation performance (bar the 2080 Ti) for current generation prices to people that already had current generation cards.
I mean, what part of that is a "fuck up"? Sure, the crypto crash really shafted them hard, and the bleating of us enthusiasts is an annoyance, but they really couldn't have done much better with the RTX launch from a business perspective.
V56 outside of two models is a crapshoot as many are not Sammy hbm. 56s can clock quite well on core though, less shader may help there. V64 ref are all Sammy hbm.But not *that* much better. A '56 flashed to a '64 bios is going to do >90% of a full '64. If hbm speed is the same there's dreadful scaling from having 14% more shaders.
The stock vega pcb is pretty overspec'd anyway, going beyond with some fancy-pants card is largely redundant, 'all' you need is a vega 56 with a beefy cooler and a bios flash
When they have trouble moving that 6 months of inventory, they have to down play the new 2060 (which is better than a 1070 ti in some instances) to sell the 1070ti at $360.
This channel problem is something special, they would not lower prices after crypto hit the shit for a few months and now they lower prices at the release of the new products like I said above. They could have done much better.
As far as the release of the new cards lets take a look at what AMD did with excess inventory: discount the products, include nice game bundles and don't announce the new cards for as long as possible to sell the excess inventory. Now AMD can come in with real priced mid-range cards, which is the bulk of what people buy, and strip market share. Once again, Nvidia could have done far better.
So what if they have to downplay the 2060? Does that cost them anything?
The thing with cost is that you can only expect to sell a finite amount of cards whether it is 10 or a billion. In a vacuum, you should charge the absolute most you can still sell any units for until you can no longer sell a single one. Then you drop the price, rinse, and repeat until you have no stock. By pricing the RTX line up so highly, they are still making the same money on the old stuff as they would have, but they can charge a premium on the new stuff that they wouldn't be able to get away with if A) they dropped the price of the old lines and B) actually had any competition.
Yeh AMD dropped prices and gave us some sick game bundles, but other than a warm fuzzy feeling that doesn't give them shit. So what if it takes nVidia a year longer to sell out stock; they'll be making much better margins. And if they still have trouble in the future they can start adjusting pricing around (probably with the RTX range as well, if that stalls in sales) and spark more interest. Besides, AMD have been on the back foot for so long they don't really have a choice. For whatever reason, people just don't buy a lot of AMD, despite the competition in the less-than-enthusiast end.
I'm not saying nVidia are doing any good for the industry or enthusiasts etc, but they are damn smart and shady when it comes to making money. Granted, their stock has dived, but I don't see that as a permanent thing; people were just panic selling after the crypto bubble burst and then the sentiment towards RTX didn't help anyone get back on the wagon. Some more solid quarters now that the mining craze has worn off and I think you'll see they stabilise somewhere below their mining peak.
When we see the much needed come back from AMD, sure, they'll be poised to take back some marketshare. But then since nVidia all of a sudden have someone to compete with other than themselves, they can lower their prices to something more palatable (to me, if no one else). All it means is nVidia made bank hand over fist while they could. Which is exactly what I'm saying about nVidia being very shrewd about the last few months. The pricing on RTX is a joke, but if people are buying it and you can get away with it, only an idiot would charge less.
Here is an example 10 people want to buy a 2080ti but 1000 people want to buy a 2060 at around $200. There is no 2060 at $200 so AMD will take that market share.
$350 seems like a good deal for the 2060 especially since it comes bundled with Battlefield 5 or Anthem
$350 seems like a good deal for the 2060 especially since it comes bundled with Battlefield 5 or Anthem
This analysis is spot-on. The "just wait til AMD comes out with their $200 2060 killer" arguments always seem to transmit from some alternate reality where the laws of supply and demand don't exist. Or just someone deep-inhaling magic markers. "If they price a Lexus like a Camry then more people will totally buy it" -- yeah, no shit. But it's bad business.Maybe I'm being dense but why are people going AMD all of a sudden just because a 2060 is not $200? Do nVidia have no cards at $200? Just because I can't buy a 2080 Ti for £500 doesn't mean I'm going to buy AMD instead. I'll just buy what I can get for £500, that offers the best value, green or red, or that satisfies my criteria for looking at a 2060 in the first place (G-sync etc). I can't say I've looked at card prices across the range recently, but as far as I always new, nVidia and AMD are generally pretty tied in value for any performance segment where there actually exists some competition.
So that person looking to buy the 2060 isn't necessarily going to buy AMD just because the 2060 is overpriced; they are going to cough up the money (reluctantly), or see what they can afford that fits their requirements, whether that is still nVidia, or AMD. All else being equal, nVidia have not lost anything so long as they are price competitive where AMD can be performance competitive. Everything after that (i.e. pretty much the whole RTX range) is just extra margin until they have no choice but to react some way, whether that's game bundles, extra offers, or pricing. I can't imagine they wouldn't lower prices if they had no choice, no matter what anyone says. Again, though, it would only be where the competition is. I don't really see RTX getting cheaper (at least nothing that can not be matched with a Navi).
nVidia's marketshare has been dominant for years; I don't think half a year to a year's worth of high prices in places you can't get anything from the competiton is going to change that. I'd be price gouging where I could as well.
Said nobody ever. You can't justify the price of a card for the games it comes with. For one, I may not want the games, which is true. Secondly, if the 2060's performance is just 10% faster than a 1060 and costs $100 more, then that's a really bad buy. If Ray Tracing is barely works for the 2080 Ti then it won't work at all for the 2060, so you can rule that out.$350 seems like a good deal for the 2060 especially since it comes bundled with Battlefield 5 or Anthem
Nobody should care about power consumption unless you do crypto mining. Most people play games for a few hours at best. Try to calculate how much money you lose to power consumption playing a game for a few hours per day.For this kind of price and performance, the card would have to be able to do it all with 75W for me to have any interest in it.
What the hell are you smoking? You are getting 1070Ti performance for 1070Ti pricing with less memory (and some models are slated to have GDDR5X just like the 1070Ti) a year after the 1070Ti came out...If this was $249-279 like the current gen 1060 MSRP, then I'd agree with you.
The fact is Nvidia has raised the ceiling on GPU pricing, and lifted everything else all the way down the line up with it - including whatever AMD comes out with. Enough people have voted with wallets that they're ready to pay more per performance, and so all the whining about "what should be" is just banging pot on head with wooden spoon. Enjoy.
Reports are indicating that Nvidia's pricing scheme is too high, and sales are not as good as previous generations. If Nvidia had kept the previous generation pricing, or even if they had raised MSRP by 10-15%, the sales numbers would be so high, instead of stock prices being cut in half, they would have continued to rise. Truth is, Nvidia got themselves in a pickle with this generation, and it will be painful for them to get out. This leaked product (of which may or may not see light of day before Navi, probably will, but not before announcement) is going to continue that problem.
This analysis is spot-on. The "just wait til AMD comes out with their $200 2060 killer" arguments always seem to transmit from some alternate reality where the laws of supply and demand don't exist. Or just someone deep-inhaling magic markers. "If they price a Lexus like a Camry then more people will totally buy it" -- yeah, no shit. But it's bad business.
AMD will never MSRP a 2060 equivalent at $200, or even $300. And even if they did, the AIB and retail stages of the pipeline would see to it that the price you can actually get it for ends up being pretty close dollar-to-performance what the 2060 is selling for. Children will call this gouging - "Newegg is gouging bro" - but it's just supply/demand at work, and AMD is not immune.
The fact is Nvidia has raised the ceiling on GPU pricing, and lifted everything else all the way down the line up with it - including whatever AMD comes out with. Enough people have voted with wallets that they're ready to pay more per performance, and so all the whining about "what should be" is just banging pot on head with wooden spoon. Enjoy.
Just because Nvidia has significantly raised their pricing for this generation does not mean that the entire GPU market pricing is going up with them. AMD won't just look at Nvidia pricing and match, they will look at what is a reasonable market price. They will use their resources to see just how well the RTX series is selling, what is the margin on those prices, and if Nvidia priced too high, their margins are low, or anything else similar, AMD will not price to match. Just as Nividia's 20xx GPU's have to compete with existing stock of 10xx GPU's, so AMD's new offerings will need to compete with previous AMD offerings.
Reports are indicating that Nvidia's pricing scheme is too high, and sales are not as good as previous generations. If Nvidia had kept the previous generation pricing, or even if they had raised MSRP by 10-15%, the sales numbers would be so high, instead of stock prices being cut in half, they would have continued to rise. Truth is, Nvidia got themselves in a pickle with this generation, and it will be painful for them to get out. This leaked product (of which may or may not see light of day before Navi, probably will, but not before announcement) is going to continue that problem.
The fact is Nvidia has raised the ceiling on GPU pricing, and lifted everything else all the way down the line up with it - including whatever AMD comes out with. Enough people have voted with wallets that they're ready to pay more per performance, and so all the whining about "what should be" is just banging pot on head with wooden spoon. Enjoy.
4870 4850 resulted in price cuts of the 280 and 260. Excellent performance at excellent prices can shift the market even if it isn’t “best” performance.
Nobody should care about power consumption unless you do crypto mining. Most people play games for a few hours at best. Try to calculate how much money you lose to power consumption playing a game for a few hours per day.