Could Microsoft Release a Desktop Linux?

It’s possible to have an entire line of products at multiple stages of development, you know. A lot of the changes are pre FDA submission. Some devices take several years of development before they hit the market.
Oh I am very aware of the process and lifecycles. I am also fully aware of the total development cost and why there is always a drive to re-use what has already been shown to pass qualification. Thus if you have on your books a design (hardware, firmware, software) that functions, qualified and on the market, re-using as much as possible to keep development costs down and TTM down are a must.
Sure every so often an R&T project comes along to reset the books but if you are constantly working in R&T with a TRL around 1-6, you are not concerned about product as what you are making is no where near the needed TRL

My point is, what you wrote is valid, but aspects of it are pitching at different stages of a product lifecycle YET you are conflating them as being at the same time, which they are not and NOTHING in the medical/automotive/aerospace would ever do that simply because even if they did (And there are times where tech dev on an OEM is needed...) the product development times are long enough to absorb aspects of it IF the risk associated with not having something at the end is valid
 
Oh I am very aware of the process and lifecycles. I am also fully aware of the total development cost and why there is always a drive to re-use what has already been shown to pass qualification. Thus if you have on your books a design (hardware, firmware, software) that functions, qualified and on the market, re-using as much as possible to keep development costs down and TTM down are a must.
Sure every so often an R&T project comes along to reset the books but if you are constantly working in R&T with a TRL around 1-6, you are not concerned about product as what you are making is no where near the needed TRL

My point is, what you wrote is valid, but aspects of it are pitching at different stages of a product lifecycle YET you are conflating them as being at the same time, which they are not and NOTHING in the medical/automotive/aerospace would ever do that simply because even if they did (And there are times where tech dev on an OEM is needed...) the product development times are long enough to absorb aspects of it IF the risk associated with not having something at the end is valid

You don’t work for my employer so I’m not sure why you feel qualified to generalize about projects you don’t know of and that I’m not allowed to elaborate further on.

You are generally correct but it doesn’t apply to my situation. Anyway this is getting way off topic. Fact is, the lack of stable interfaces hurt in the consumer space.
 
If someone has physical access to just about anything then it can be compromised.

I don't use Windows store for anything... besides, Windows store is an excellent idea in theory of it was policed like the Apple app store and people actually used it. I also don't use any of the Windows 10 apps because none of it works seamlessly with the Google ecosystem that I am heavily invested in personally and with my business.

They kept Internet explorer around (and still do) because of Enterprise/government applications that won't run properly on anything else. Backwards compatibility is probably the cause of a huge portion of Microsoft woes for people. They don't care if you don't like it because a multi-billion dollar government contract > you. When I was in the AF there were at least two sites I used daily that had to be ran in IE with compatibility mode on.

At the end of the day, for what Microsoft has to work with supporting backwards compatibility and "universal" hardware compatibility on an endless number of system configs (among other things)... they do a pretty damn good job.

Anyway, my home server runs on Linux but switching to Linux or Apple for my daily desktop OS would offer me no advantage.

Windows 8 was a dissaster and Windows 10 is 1 step forward and 10 steps backwards. Windows Store sucks, Windows update really sucks, Windows file sharing sucks. They removed F8 safe mode in Windows 10, their security is a joke when anyone with a USB stick can reset the password. Now they do bi-annual system updates which apparently can erase your files.




Yea, unlocked as in you're given the privilege to install a custom rom on your phone. When was the last time you bought a motherboard that had an unlocked UEFI? None, only laptops and Macbooks have a locked UEFI that prevents people from installing what they want. Unlocked devices should be a requirement not something we should be grateful for.
 
If Microsoft released a desktop Linux distro then I think it could take off. All it would take is having it look and feel like Windows with zero requirement to use command line trash for two hours to do something that takes 5 minutes in Windows. Your average person could pick it up and function with zero learning curve.

If they built a legitimate app store (that was supported by developers) and it was actually a one stop shop for what people needed then there would be no reason NOT to use it.
 
A desktop operating system needs to have stable kernel driver APIs. Linux does not and will never have it as long as Torvalds is in charge.

You can’t have every update breaking drivers left and right. I can still use audio drivers for Windows 10 that were written for Vista. Linux drivers need to be refactored so often it hurts.

Are you serious?

This is an issue under Windows, the Microsoft attempt to effectively mimic Linux in terms of rolling release and updating is a complete disaster. In comparison the process under Linux is as perfect as you'll get under any OS.

I've tried Vista drivers for professional sound devices under Windows 10, the result was unusable. You're example is a vast generalization that will in no way hold true in a majority of cases.
 
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No, it is not, it is just the way you prefer to interpret what was said. Just because you may help someone does not change what I said one bit. Also, I wonder why the Linux Desktop has never been truly successful and based upon what I hear, it is because of Windows itself. Microsoft is not making a Linux Desktop to replace Windows, not now, not ever. :)

Now, let's see if the Linux Desktop can be truly successful on their own, without being compared to Windows or using Windows software, at all.

Wow, I didn't realize MS were submitting to you're every whim now? Can you tell them to stop with the update bullshit?
 
Are you serious?

This is an issue under Windows, the Microsoft attempt to effectively mimic Linux in terms of rolling release and updating is a complete disaster. In comparison the process under Linux is as perfect as you'll get under any OS.

I've tried Vista drivers for professional sound devices under Windows 10, the result was unusable. You're example is a vast generalization that will in no way hold true in a majority of cases.
Don't forget a recent windows10 6month update broke driver compat :) :)

If this is the holy grail windows advocate hold dear, MS have destroyed this as they are free to change what they like every 6months and you have no idea until it it's too late.
 
Are you serious?

This is an issue under Windows, the Microsoft attempt to effectively mimic Linux in terms of rolling release and updating is a complete disaster. In comparison the process under Linux is as perfect as you'll get under any OS.

I've tried Vista drivers for professional sound devices under Windows 10, the result was unusable. You're example is a vast generalization that will in no way hold true in a majority of cases.

Any WDDM display driver still works as does any WDM audio driver. This is years.

Your feelings aren’t facts. Between minor kernel revs Linux has changed things like PCI struct definitions. You clearly don’t have any experience writing drivers.
 
Don't forget a recent windows10 6month update broke driver compat :) :)

If this is the holy grail windows advocate hold dear, MS have destroyed this as they are free to change what they like every 6months and you have no idea until it it's too late.
The FACT is that the driver apis haven’t changed. Please go find me an example of them breaking kernel interfaces recently. I’ll wait.

Bunch of IT guys that don’t understand drivers...
 
Can't say I'm surprised by this response considering your username. What you said actually means that, whether you're willing to accept it or not.

But whatever man, you create your own narrative and do your own thing. I'll be over here showing people how to game on Linux and having fun. Hope you're having a lovely holiday! :)

No, it is not, it is just the way you prefer to interpret what was said. Just because you may help someone does not change what I said one bit. Also, I wonder why the Linux Desktop has never been truly successful and based upon what I hear, it is because of Windows itself. Microsoft is not making a Linux Desktop to replace Windows, not now, not ever. :)

Now, let's see if the Linux Desktop can be truly successful on their own, without being compared to Windows or using Windows software, at all.
 
Can't say I'm surprised by this response considering your username. What you said actually means that, whether you're willing to accept it or not.

But whatever man, you create your own narrative and do your own thing. I'll be over here showing people how to game on Linux and having fun. Hope you're having a lovely holiday! :)

Yep , Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year too you.
 
Don't piss them off
The problem is that Microsoft is already pissing off their business users, the business users are raising holy hell about how they're handling (or should I say... not handling) the LTSB version of Windows 10.

That depends on your definition of "work great". Obvisouly it is different from my own. Windows 10 is, at best, unstable and inconsistent for me. One minute it works fine, next patch is is busted and rinse and repeat. I skipped the Windows 8 abomination.
And that's a big problem with Windows 10. Every time we get a new update it's like playing a game of Russian Roulette, you don't know if you're going to get the loaded chamber this time around and end up with a broken system. Just look at how some Lenovo systems were broken with the recent critical Internet Explorer patch that left those systems un-bootable. Really Microsoft? How can a damn Internet Explorer patch break the whole damn OS? That's a level of fail I never thought was possible... until now.

The unlocked Pixel phone ...
The Google Pixel device is great in concept but when it comes to hardware they generally suck. There's really only one player in the Android ecosystem that makes great hardware and that's Samsung. Nobody makes better hardware than Samsung. Samsung has the best screens, the best cameras, the best overall everything. The only thing that they generally suck at is the supporting of their devices with software updates past a year because... well, they want you to be forever on the upgrade treadmill since that strategy practically prints the green stuff for them by the semi-truck full.

1) submit driver for mainlining and then the dev's will deal with API chances
No company with patents and such would ever think about doing that, it would be like giving away the keys to the kingdom, their crown jewels. Open source, it's great and all but it tends to not play nice in the corporate world where patents and intellectual property must be protected.
 
only laptops and Macbooks have a locked UEFI that prevents people from installing what they want.

Citation needed. I've yet to see any PC laptops that are locked down, and even the most current Macs with the T2 chip can install OS's other than Mac OS rather easily. Why you would want to since the point of Mac hardware is to run macOS but then again some people, especially those who will never own something like a Mac sure seem to care a lot about talking about them like they know what they are talking about :cautious:
 
This is hand down, one of the most ridiculous articles I've ever read on O/S Tech.

Needless to say, this will NEVER happen.
 
Let's be honest here. Microsoft has NEVER been a consumer friendly company. Everything they do, is to get every penny from the customer even if it hurts the customer. It's all about keeping their monopoly and killing off competition. The multiple lies they've spread as they've weaved their web of crap products over the years, all the 'it's not a bug, it's a feature!' type behavior as they load more and more junk to the operating system and hide what they're doing from the end user. How much stuff gets hidden in the depths of the registry? Who knows. Certainly not the end user.
It's always been about how much they can hide from view, and make some money off of it too. Windows has been a mess for over 23 years. Rather than fix it, they just keep adding new junk into it.

A few months after a new install, I still run into the problem of my thumbnails not rendering in file explorer windows; some of them render, then it just stops. Why? No one seems to know. The only way to fix it is to reinstall the OS. What does that mean? It means that no one really knows what's wrong with the OS. So rather than fix it, they just pretend the problem doesn't exist. If that's more of what I can expect from a microsoft version of linux, forget it; I already have a broken OS, thanks. Fix that one first. Then we'll see if I'll buy something else from you. Here's what I'm talking about. It starts to render the pics as thumbnails, then just stops. I can leave it for days, with no other apps running. Plenty of memory free. took all the suggestions that are offered online. Nothing works. But if I reinstall, bingo, everything is fine. I'm not alone with this problem. We go to MS's help pages, and no one knows what to do. This problem has been around since at least Windows 95. Never fixed. And I'm sure there are plenty of other things that have never been fixed, either. So. Buy another Microsoft product? So they can sell me more crap that they won't fix? No thank you.

Fix windows rot first. Then we'll see.


half rendered thumbnails.jpg



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If someone has physical access to just about anything then it can be compromised.

I don't use Windows store for anything... besides, Windows store is an excellent idea in theory of it was policed like the Apple app store and people actually used it. I also don't use any of the Windows 10 apps because none of it works seamlessly with the Google ecosystem that I am heavily invested in personally and with my business.

They kept Internet explorer around (and still do) because of Enterprise/government applications that won't run properly on anything else. Backwards compatibility is probably the cause of a huge portion of Microsoft woes for people. They don't care if you don't like it because a multi-billion dollar government contract > you. When I was in the AF there were at least two sites I used daily that had to be ran in IE with compatibility mode on.
It never ceases to amaze me how the people who built this trap (IE dependant applications) are not getting sued for causing major damage to the government. They either got paid to do it or they were criminally short sighted.
 
Let's be honest here. Microsoft has NEVER been a consumer friendly company. Everything they do, is to get every penny from the customer even if it hurts the customer. It's all about keeping their monopoly and killing off competition. The multiple lies they've spread as they've weaved their web of crap products over the years, all the 'it's not a bug, it's a feature!' type behavior as they load more and more junk to the operating system and hide what they're doing from the end user. How much stuff gets hidden in the depths of the registry? Who knows. Certainly not the end user.
It's always been about how much they can hide from view, and make some money off of it too. Windows has been a mess for over 23 years. Rather than fix it, they just keep adding new junk into it.

A few months after a new install, I still run into the problem of my thumbnails not rendering in file explorer windows; some of them render, then it just stops. Why? No one seems to know. The only way to fix it is to reinstall the OS. What does that mean? It means that no one really knows what's wrong with the OS. So rather than fix it, they just pretend the problem doesn't exist. If that's more of what I can expect from a microsoft version of linux, forget it; I already have a broken OS, thanks. Fix that one first. Then we'll see if I'll buy something else from you. Here's what I'm talking about. It starts to render the pics as thumbnails, then just stops. I can leave it for days, with no other apps running. Plenty of memory free. took all the suggestions that are offered online. Nothing works. But if I reinstall, bingo, everything is fine. I'm not alone with this problem. We go to MS's help pages, and no one knows what to do. This problem has been around since at least Windows 95. Never fixed. And I'm sure there are plenty of other things that have never been fixed, either. So. Buy another Microsoft product? So they can sell me more crap that they won't fix? No thank you.

Fix windows rot first. Then we'll see.


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Personally, I've never really had any problem with Windows rot, on any version besides 10(haven't used 10 long enough yet to judge).

Doing simple things like:

1) Never installing anything you DON'T need to. If you install things temporarily, make sure they are completely uninstalled so any left over processes/files don't run in memory, or cause conflicts with other programs. Check for services too after the uninstallation.
2)Always be aware of the type of programs running on your PC, and how they interact with one another(most people don't understand this). Sometimes your PC gets bogged down, because of various programs in unison causing lag.
3 Windows lag can be caused by = Wrong program + Wrong time + Wrong settings
4) If you are ever coming close to your Ram memory limit, you're doing it wrong.
5) Update to the "RIGHT" drivers. I say right, because the newest driver may not be the best, in fact the newest driver could cause problems or not work.
6) Don't use old/cheap Tech & expect top notch results, getting disappointed and blaming the O/S when things fail.
7) Use a known(good) Virus Scanner(some may argue this, but I stick to my good ol' A/V like superglue).
8) Don't let others' use your PC without your knowledge, and expect everything to run buttery smooth when you got noobs messing about on your RIG.
9) Learn to watch Task manager. Learn your PC's rhythm. When U get good at that, any small disturbances your PC suffers will be more easily noticed, and easier to diagnose and fix.
10) Tweak religiously. After all, you're apart of HARDOCP? Amirite???? <3
 
Any WDDM display driver still works as does any WDM audio driver. This is years.

Your feelings aren’t facts. Between minor kernel revs Linux has changed things like PCI struct definitions. You clearly don’t have any experience writing drivers.

No, I have no experience with writing drivers. But I've got experience using them and in certain professional audio situations Vista drivers play funny buggers with Windows 10. I question your experience with Linux if you think that updating breaks correctly coded driver compatibility and Windows is somehow immune to such an issue.

The Realtek HD audio drivers are the biggest pile of steaming turd I've ever seen in my life, and I've seen them break more than once in relation to Windows updates. In comparison I've never seen drivers break in relation to updates on my Linux system.

Furthermore, your feelings aren't any more valid than my own simply due to your blind loyalty to Microsoft and your apparent in depth knowledge of Windows drivers means nothing when it's plainly obvious that updating Windows and updating Windows drivers breaks previously perfectly working configurations quite often and is a very well documented problem. In comparison, the only driver issues I see under Linux are all related to Realtek products - No real surprises there.
 
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) Update to the "RIGHT" drivers. I say right, because the newest driver may not be the best, in fact the newest driver could cause problems or not work.

This is a bit of a problem when Microsoft are hell bent on forcing driver updates and quite often the driver installed is not the best driver for the job, especially in the case of Windows 10 Home.

1) Never installing anything you DON'T need to. If you install things temporarily, make sure they are completely uninstalled so any left over processes/files don't run in memory, or cause conflicts with other programs. Check for services too after the uninstallation.
2)Always be aware of the type of programs running on your PC, and how they interact with one another(most people don't understand this). Sometimes your PC gets bogged down, because of various programs in unison causing lag.
3 Windows lag can be caused by = Wrong program + Wrong time + Wrong settings
4) If you are ever coming close to your Ram memory limit, you're doing it wrong.

6) Don't use old/cheap Tech & expect top notch results, getting disappointed and blaming the O/S when things fail.
7) Use a known(good) Virus Scanner(some may argue this, but I stick to my good ol' A/V like superglue).
8) Don't let others' use your PC without your knowledge, and expect everything to run buttery smooth when you got noobs messing about on your RIG.
9) Learn to watch Task manager. Learn your PC's rhythm. When U get good at that, any small disturbances your PC suffers will be more easily noticed, and easier to diagnose and fix.
10) Tweak religiously. After all, you're apart of HARDOCP? Amirite???? <3

So babysit your PC? Personally, I've got better things to do.
 
The Google Pixel device is great in concept but when it comes to hardware they generally suck. There's really only one player in the Android ecosystem that makes great hardware and that's Samsung. Nobody makes better hardware than Samsung. Samsung has the best screens, the best cameras, the best overall everything. The only thing that they generally suck at is the supporting of their devices with software updates past a year because... well, they want you to be forever on the upgrade treadmill since that strategy practically prints the green stuff for them by the semi-truck full.
Yea, that is indeed your opinion. Having said that, I agree with you regarding Samsung. Pixel and Samsung phones are the only two Android phones I recommend to people.
 
So babysit your PC? Personally, I've got better things to do.

Not really. I'm just saying that if people were a little bit more consciously aware of what's going on with their RIG, then they would probably be able to spot a lot of issues and fix them, maybe even before a complete drive failure or somethin'.
 
Not really. I'm just saying that if people were a little bit more consciously aware of what's going on with their RIG, then they would probably be able to spot a lot of issues and fix them, maybe even before a complete drive failure or somethin'.

I understand.

The problem is that many of the issues you reported are really only issues under Windows, certain other alternatives don't really suffer from these problems. I install my OS once, sometimes I completely change hardware and simply rip the drive out of one machine and dump it into another, I do very little in the way of maintenance with the exception of updates, my PC is literally always running, I don't even sleep it - And I have no problems. I keep that install for around 5 years and then I upgrade once long term support has come to an end and the cycle continues.

Windows, with it's method of updating, it's NT kernel that's well past it's expiry date and that NTFS file system are in dire need for replacement - Time to move on. If Apple could completely switch platforms from PPC to Intel, Windows can be revamped for something better and the world will continue to spin.

Outright OS sales aren't Microsoft's bread and butter anymore and the outright purchase of an OS is so early 2000's, I think Microsoft are finally starting to work this out and the users resistant to change are the ones that are going to be left behind.
 
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I thought filesystems kinda became redundant after the introduction of non-spindle drives, AKA SSD's(and beyond)?

An updated Windows File System would result in broken backwards compatibility. You will notice that new file systems are not back ported to old Linux distributions and old versions of programs are not forwarded to new distributions. Old programs no longer work on new file systems.

It is easy to update you file system when your overall user base is quite small. And no, the newer file systems are not used on older Linux based servers and that is not a user base anyways. (Not directed at you but the one you are responding too.)
 
I thought filesystems kinda became redundant after the introduction of non-spindle drives, AKA SSD's(and beyond)?
You still need to have a way for the OS to know what bits belong to what files, that's what a file system is. Think of it as a huge dictionary, it contains records for each file on the disk. For instance... C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe is contained in LBA (Large Block Address) 2745245245 through... whatever. When the system wants to read that file the OS sends a command to the storage device (be it a hard drive or SSD) that it wants the data contained in those LBA addresses.
 
An updated Windows File System would result in broken backwards compatibility.
Not really. A program written back in the Windows 95 days would access the data the same way it would be able to access data on a Windows NT system. The program itself doesn't access the disk itself, it asks the kernel for access and the kernel does the work on behalf of the program in question. To the program it's a file but to the OS, kernel, and file system driver it's nothing more than bits on a disk.
 
An updated Windows File System would result in broken backwards compatibility. You will notice that new file systems are not back ported to old Linux distributions and old versions of programs are not forwarded to new distributions. Old programs no longer work on new file systems.

It is easy to update you file system when your overall user base is quite small. And no, the newer file systems are not used on older Linux based servers and that is not a user base anyways. (Not directed at you but the one you are responding too.)

This is just incorrect. As pointed out above, an OS has layers, software does not access the file system directly and I don't have a problem with older software compatibility under Linux - Even 32bit software still works in most instances.

I thought filesystems kinda became redundant after the introduction of non-spindle drives, AKA SSD's(and beyond)?

NTFS is part of the reason the Windows updating process sucks so [H]ard. It's ancient now and needs to be depreciated. Most compatibility issues between differing versions of Windows are patched by the software vendors themselves, I can list a number of software applications off the top of my head that work perfectly under Windows 7 but not Windows 10 - Necessitating one to 'repurchase' the software in many instances.

Such a situation happens under macOS all the time, Apple users don't complain, they just carry on. This idea of Windows backwards compatibility is becoming a hindrance now.
 
eh... yes.

They actually do work great and the fact you disagree does not change that fact. Issues are there, as on any OS as I should know, since I have been doing this for 30 years but, they do work great.



This is not exclusive to these forums, you can see this on just about all the popular ones. It is much easier and more popular to complain and much easier for most, as well.

and the fact that you automatically assume everyone else is wrong and you're the only one with a worthwhile outlook on it means i have no interest in continuing the discussion.
 
Such a situation happens under macOS all the time, Apple users don't complain, they just carry on..
One can argue that it's because most Apple users are card carrying Apple cult followers.
This idea of Windows backwards compatibility is becoming a hindrance now.
That's very much true. If Microsoft were to be able to abandon most if not all of the old stuff Windows would be nearly 75% smaller in disk footprint but 100% faster. Say what you will about MacOSX but it's not dragging a boat anchor behind it.
 
and the fact that you automatically assume everyone else is wrong and you're the only one with a worthwhile outlook on it means i have no interest in continuing the discussion.

Why, because I do not agree with you and you assume you are right and everyone that does not agree with you is wrong? Ok, whatever, Merry Christmas. (No, I just think you are wrong but hey, ok, whatever.) You are not interested in having a discussion with me because I do not think that you are right and am not willing to sit here and say that they suck. :p
 
This idea of Windows backwards compatibility is becoming a hindrance now.

Yeah, a hinderance to Linux Desktop perhaps but not to the Windows OS and what it can do. Microsoft attempted to dump backwards compatibility with catastrophic results. (Windows RT to be exact.) Back during the Windows NT days, cross hardware platform compatibility was a big deal but not anymore. X86 is extremely important and backwards compatibility is also quite important for the end user.
 
I dont care and most businesses dont either, what os I/they run I/they just want the OS to get out of the way and support the applications that need to run to get the work done.
That is something that microsoft has never gotten through their heads!
 
I dont care and most businesses dont either, what os I/they run I/they just want the OS to get out of the way and support the applications that need to run to get the work done.
That is something that microsoft has never gotten through their heads!

They certainly do have their issues but to claim they have not ever understood what you are saying, that just seems to be a little far fetched. This is one of the reasons among many that I am glad I am completely out of retail IT.
 
Although I am certain they will not release any version of the Linux Desktop, that does not mean I am happy with everything is that being done. After 3.5 years, I have finally gave up on using the Windows Mail app. It is a good looking program, opens quickly and snaps to fast. However, MS has never fixed the opening of emails in the program itself.

Click on an email, sometimes it opens right away, sometimes it take a few seconds and other times, it opens but is not usable for a few seconds. Just got tired of dealing with and since there is a Dark Theme available for Thunderbird, I am using that now instead. (Still use Outlook on my Android phone and it works well enough there.)
 
They certainly do have their issues but to claim they have not ever understood what you are saying, that just seems to be a little far fetched. This is one of the reasons among many that I am glad I am completely out of retail IT.
I can tell you about it happening all the way back to windows 95 all the way to windows 10.
Just in the last year windows 10 updates borked 5-6 major industrial software packages, the bigger places caught it in testing but smaller companies got hit hard.
Then almost everyone is using chrome or firefox lts for web based applications because IE and Edge updates keep on breaking them.
Then you get edge taking over as the default browser and breaking them anyway.
 
Yeah, a hinderance to Linux Desktop perhaps but not to the Windows OS and what it can do. Microsoft attempted to dump backwards compatibility with catastrophic results. (Windows RT to be exact.) Back during the Windows NT days, cross hardware platform compatibility was a big deal but not anymore. X86 is extremely important and backwards compatibility is also quite important for the end user.

What a ridiculous comment. How has Linux got anything to do with the archaic concept of Windows backwards compatibility? Your resistance to change is astounding. I mean, who the hell still uses Windows 10 Mail, it was pure garbage from inception.

Windows RT ran on something other than x64 with a compatibility layer, RT is nothing like what I'm talking about. The NT kernel can't last forever simply because you're terrified of change and because Adobe want to keep re releasing rehashed old shit.

Become comfortable and lazy in tech circles and you die, it's that simple.
 
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