Gaming at 50hz (program link included)

I was going to put this in the Display section but decided this was more appropriate.

So, most games typically go right to 60hz. Some titles give you options, others do not.

- Do you game on a potato that easily averages over 60 but can dip into the mid/lows 50's when things start getting hectic??

Well, here is the solution:

First off, don't talk to me about frame-rate limiters. IT'S NOT THE SAME LEVEL OF SMOOTHNESS AT ALL!!

Anyways, using a program and creating your own bat files this problem is easily solved.

DL this:
http://tools.taubenkorb.at/change-screen-resolution/

Here is a sample bat file to save you guys the trouble:

cd\changescreenresolution
changescreenresolution /d=\\.\DISPLAY1 /f=50
exit

Change that 50 to whatever you want obviously. (create another that's set to 60/75/whatever to default back to)

I just keep 2 icons on my desktop.

Now you'll notice 50hz is infinitely smoother than a locked 50fps!!

*NOTE* This only works if you do it before you launch the game.

TLDR
1. I found a program that lets you manually set your refresh rate
2. it's linked above
3. its useful

This saved me from the brink of madness in Destiny 2 and several other titles....

EDIT: For the sake of clarity, OBVIOUSLY have Vsync applied.

if you are running without sync I'm not seeing how this becomes smoother you are just moving the tearing lines around.

if you are running with vsync on I can see how lowering the the hz to 50 is beneficial to avoid dropping down to 30fps when not able to hit 60fs ( next whole divisor of 60hz)
but in that case that can be resolved with a triple buffering or fast sync (or freesync/gsync)


This is basically what gsync and freesync does but on the fly according to your fps. except it always makes sure the refresh updates is in sync with the buffer swap to avoid tearing (which your method does not unless you use vsync)


Has this been confirmed in an no placebo effected test ( like an ABX test)?
Did you test it against using fast sync og tripplebuffering?
can you specify if you ar talking with or without vsync ( this is kinda really important)?

SvenBent said:

Has this been confirmed in an no placebo effected test ( like an ABX test)?
Did you test it against using fast sync og tripplebuffering?
can you specify if you ar talking with or without vsync ( this is kinda really important)?

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1. I'm no expert but I've been in the "frame-rate game" for almost 20 years. So yeah, it's not the placebo effect (I'm sure I can prove it with FRAFS regarding frametimes or something, but it's just so darn obvious it works)
2. I know how both those work and use them frequently. This is an entirely different matter.
3. With Vsync or else what would be the point??

horrorshow said:

1. I'm no expert but I've been in the "frame-rate game" for almost 20 years. So yeah, it's not the placebo effect (I'm sure I can prove it with FRAFS regarding frametimes or something, but it's just so darn obvious it works)
2. I know how both those work and use them frequently. This is an entirely different matter.
3. With Vsync or else what would be the point??

Click to expand...

Thank you for the feedback. Plese understnad i love to debate but it happens often ppl take skepticism as an attack. Thank you for not doing so

1: Im a hardcore believe on proper anti placebo test. but i understand that might be very tedious/big work for this kind of test. So I always try to just keep this in mind when I read stuff because I've read a lot of claims that was physicality and logcal impossible but the claimer. ( yours are not, i just needed more info)
3: Just needed clarification, and then I will totally agree on the possibilities this is a great tweak. basically trying to mimick some kind of poormands gsync/freesync
2: i tottaly agee that 50fps vsync to 50hz which results in 50fps will look batter than 55fps vsync too 60hz which results in only 30 FPS.
I'm amazed ( intriqured/curious)you think it looks better than fastsync and triplebuffering (But not disagreeing) this might actually be a really cool way to do some minor tweak for the monitor setup to get some huge benfits in smoothness.

Normally i would just adjust the graphical setting to ensure 60FPS.

I am wondering if this could be done on the fly like with a hotkey. if so i would probably integrate this fatures in my project mercury software.


Without actually testing but based solely on theory i would definitely give this a +1 to test out, it seems horrible obvious but i guess it easy to overlook when everyone is talking about higher HZ that in fact lowering hz ) with vsync on) can benefit smoothnes


If m not to sick this weekend i might do some testing just to give my input on it.



Also framelimiters has nothing to do with this tweak i agree on this as well

just tried the tool
Sadly my works monitors does not support 50hz
i think this tools need to be coupled up with cru ( i mgiht be wrong on the name) wre yo can define you own resolutions/refresh rate and boom it would look nice

SvenBent said:

I'm amazed ( intriqured/curious)you think it looks better than fastsync and triplebuffering (But not disagreeing) this might actually be a really cool way to do some minor tweak for the monitor setup to get some huge benfits in smoothness.

Click to expand...

For Fastsync to properly function, you need to be able to generate at least double the fps of your refresh rate. So.... totally not an applicable situation.

Triple buffering is always enabled whenever/however possible due to it's obvious benefits.

I wholeheartedly welcome you and others to test this for yourselves. It's actually really cool how well it works.

SvenBent said:

just tried the tool
Sadly my works monitors does not support 50hz
i think this tools need to be coupled up with cru ( i mgiht be wrong on the name) wre yo can define you own resolutions/refresh rate and boom it would look nice

Click to expand...

That sucks!!

Both my Asus and Acer monitors work just fine....

EDIT: Are you on Win10? I'm on 7. I wonder if that's why it's not working for you....

Like you said though, I'm sure there are similar tools that can accomplish the same effect.

horrorshow said:

For Fastsync to properly function, you need to be able to generate at least double the fps of your refresh rate. So.... totally not an applicable situation.

Triple buffering is always enabled whenever/however possible due to it's obvious benefits.

I wholeheartedly welcome you and others to test this for yourselves. It's actually really cool how well it works.

Click to expand...

I don t know where this is coming from but to all my knowledge about framebuffers swap and sync this just seems tob e a myth for me.
Fast sync is just a glorified contant rotation triplebuffering that is hidden from the game software.

my article idid way back whne gsync just came out to analyse how frambuffers swap under diffrent situations is sadly in danish otherwise i would have linked to it.
but i dont see any technical merrits in that you need twice the frame rate for fastsync to be of any effect.
On the contraty with fps <Hz it works just like trple buffing and removee the fps drops down to Hz/2

aka running 55fps on vsync 60hz with triplebuffering/fastsync still gives you 55fps
Without just normal doublebuffering you dip to 30fps ( this is the effect you are removing but adjusting down he speed of the monitor
thishappens because you end up in a situaion where the next frame is ready to be shown in the backbuffer and you monitor is not done showing the picture in the front buffer.
there is now no frambuffer avaible to rende and the gpu stop until the monitor is done with the front buffer. then the bufferswaps and the monitor now dispaly the new pciture from the now front buffer
while the gpu start reading to the now new backbuffer.
this will slow down any PFPS to hz/x if you can make it within hz/z you have tyo wait for next frame making it hz/2 aka 30fps on a 60hz monitor
if you computer is to slow for 30fps it will have to wait for hz/3 aka now you only get 20fps

so slowing the monitor refresh rate like you are suggesting to something you gpu can keep up with you avoid the delay to next monitor refresh rate and keeps frames up
but the near same effect can be done with triple buffering as now you gpu no longer needs to wait for a sync since it hards a intermetting buffer it can render to while front and backbuffer is occupied

The effect from fast sync is very eaisly measureable in the case you are bringin up
If you think you need twice the framerate for fasy to make a difference in your suggested case i honestly do not believe you have testet it as any FPS counter would show the difference

horrorshow said:

That sucks!!

Both my Asus and Acer monitors work just fine....

EDIT: Are you on Win10? I'm on 7. I wonder if that's why it's not working for you....

Like you said though, I'm sure there are similar tools that can accomplish the same effect.

Click to expand...

Yes im on windows 10
I did just use cru to crate a 50hz entry in the monitors PnP data and i could now manually adjust the moniitor to 50 hz
however the linked tool still did not work to adjust it.
i however made my own that works on win 10

It might be a win7/10 things
but sadly no games on my work computer


and also it seems to occure a blankout when adjusting the monitor refresh rate which make it unable to do it live during a game for a cheap gsync effect.

SvenBent said:

i honestly do not believe you have testet it as any FPS counter would show the difference

Click to expand...

Dude lol

I have Afterburner running 24/7 on a toggle.

I know my stuff.

You're trying to engage in a debate for the sake of debate; and I don't play that game outside of GenMay.

To quote the movie Phantoms: "Do your research. Write the gospel."

As for Fastsync, look on reddit or try it for yourself. It's garbage-time unless you can do at least 120 fps on a 60hz refresh.

Ie. It's really only good for CS:GO/Overwatch type-stuff. (which is when I use it)

horrorshow said:

Dude lol

I have Afterburner running 24/7 on a toggle.

I know my stuff.

You're trying to engage in a debate for the sake of debate; and I don't play that game outside of GenMay.

To quote the movie Phantoms: "Do your research. Write the gospel."

As for Fastsync, look on reddit or try it for yourself. It's garbage-time unless you can do at least 120 fps on a 60hz refresh.

Ie. It's really only good for CS:GO/Overwatch type-stuff. (which is when I use it)

Click to expand...

No I am not you statemens about hoe fast sync works is against any documentation and experiments I've done with it.
If you belviee fast synce only makes a difference when you have twice the fps of your hz i would declare that you are in fact wrong and might have doen some sever bad testingm which is why im asking into your test methods

ive jsut retete fast sync

no sync fps ~50
vsync /double bfuffering = 30fps
fastsync = ~50fps

Just as expected when you have a third buffer so your frame rendering during sync does not have to stop.
This a basical fact if you understand how frambuffers works. However fastsync only works with DC games and only in fullscreen leaving plenty of room for ppl to mess up testing




I would appreciate it if you could keep your argument on the technical merrits rather than trying to go personal just because you lack evidence of your claims about fast sync.

You have yet to answer me where you have the idea that you need twice the FPS for fastsync to have an effect.
There is sadly a lot of ppl making claims about things they have no technical clue about.
her is a hint. if they talk about synce but not about framebuffer its a good indicater they dont understand the technical aspect of what they are saying.

EDIT: Just realized you were talking about the FastSync introduced in Pascal.

I'm talking about the "Fast" sync option next to Adaptive in the Vsync section of the Nvidia control panel.

(see in sig, I'm on Maxwell so all I have is the Fast option)

So yeah homie, you right.. you right. heh

I can see it. Stuttering when a game drops below the monitor's sync'd rate is really annoying. That's why I got a Gysnc monitor and I'm surprised at how low the framerate can go and I'm still ok with it. As fps drops things feel less smooth and reactive of course, but it isn't the shit-show that having a framerate lower than sync was.

That said if you like this idea a better idea is to get a Gsync or Freesync monitor. Then you get the best of all worlds in that you can run the game at as high a rate as your GPU and monitor will handle, but if things get intense and FPS slows down, it doesn't go to shit.

As an aside, this is one of the reasons people are so annoyed with the PlayStation Classic's PAL games: The unit only outputs at 60Hz, so the PAL games stutter continuously since they are outputting at 50fps. It won't change the output rate.

The video I've seen had the PAL games running in slightly slow motion. 5/6th speed, presumably. It wasn't choppy.

The video I saw looked jerky, though maybe it was just how it was recorded.

Sycraft said:

That said if you like this idea a better idea is to get a Gsync or Freesync monitor. Then you get the best of all worlds in that you can run the game at as high a rate as your GPU and monitor will handle, but if things get intense and FPS slows down, it doesn't go to shit.

Click to expand...

Funny thing is, my monitor is 75hz Freesync.

I just happened to stumble across a great 980 Ti deal and couldn't turn it down....

Sycraft said:

The video I saw looked jerky, though maybe it was just how it was recorded.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that was mostly just GTA running badly on the emulator.

horrorshow said:

Funny thing is, my monitor is 75hz Freesync.

I just happened to stumble across a great 980 Ti deal and couldn't turn it down....

Click to expand...

Hopefully in the long run HDMI 2.1's VRR will force some standards and all monitors will be fully variable, and work with all devices. We are a long way off from that though .

Just as a side note the fact that your monitor is freesync might be the reason this works. Some monitors are real bitchy about anything other than their chosen refresh rate. Would work on most TVs though, they are pretty much all 24/25/30/50/60 (and 100/120 if applicable) supporting these days to work in both NTSC and PAL areas.

horrorshow said:

EDIT: Just realized you were talking about the FastSync introduced in Pascal.

I'm talking about the "Fast" sync option next to Adaptive in the Vsync section of the Nvidia control panel.

(see in sig, I'm on Maxwell so all I have is the Fast option)

So yeah homie, you right.. you right. heh

View attachment 126211

Click to expand...

ohh well that explains a lot then.
Ive been out sick this weekend but did get to download some game i know my systen i just slightly to slow to run at at konstants60fps (they where the reason i looked into fast sync) and messed around with

Sycraft said:

I can see it. Stuttering when a game drops below the monitor's sync'd rate is really annoying. That's why I got a Gysnc monitor and I'm surprised at how low the framerate can go and I'm still ok with it. As fps drops things feel less smooth and reactive of course, but it isn't the shit-show that having a framerate lower than sync was.

That said if you like this idea a better idea is to get a Gsync or Freesync monitor. Then you get the best of all worlds in that you can run the game at as high a rate as your GPU and monitor will handle, but if things get intense and FPS slows down, it doesn't go to shit.

As an aside, this is one of the reasons people are so annoyed with the PlayStation Classic's PAL games: The unit only outputs at 60Hz, so the PAL games stutter continuously since they are outputting at 50fps. It won't change the output rate.

Click to expand...

I dont think anyone disagress that gsyncx/freesync or any kind of variabel refresh rater is optimal when FPS < Hz.
But not everyone has it yet.

So horrorshow came up with an alternative solutions and im curious as how it worked against fastsync with DC games and Tripelbuffing for Opengl games
Triplebuffing in DX games are horrible due to its linare queue ways of workings, so its increased input lag.

in the end all solutions are working to eliminate the same core issues " running out of framebuffers" which is the biggest issue with lag under fps<hz situatuions with vsync and just 2 framebuffers buffers
Triplebuffeirng and fast sync elvesta this tall be offering up a 3rd buffer
Horrorshows method resolves it be making sure the monitors waits long enough for the gpu to keep up but at a konstans speed

gsync/fressync fixes it be waiting for the GPU but dynamically.

in all situtioans the issues of stalling the gpu is gone and you resolve all potential fps
Some solutions have other beneftis as well but they all solve the biggest issue

horrorshow

Hey you might wanna look here

I have no tested it so icant confirm anything. but you might be able to enable fast sync on your maxwell chip

SvenBent said:

horrorshow

Hey you might wanna look here

I have no tested it so icant confirm anything. but you might be able to enable fast sync on your maxwell chip

Click to expand...

If that's the Fast option I have under the Vsync "tab" in NV control panel, it ain't what you're talking about.... That's for sure.

(I'm on 416.94)

horrorshow said:

If that's the Fast option I have under the Vsync "tab" in NV control panel, it ain't what you're talking about.... That's for sure.

(I'm on 416.94)

Click to expand...

Yeah i jsut realised I have maxwell as well (gtx970) so we should infact have the same fast sync option

SvenBent said:

Yeah i jsut realised I have maxwell as well (gtx970) so we should infact have the same fast sync option

Click to expand...

Let me know where you find it, I'm all for smoother frames!

horrorshow said:

Let me know where you find it, I'm all for smoother frames!

Click to expand...

Horrorshow, go sign up at the Blur Busters forum and do some reading there. They are the most qualified people at this kind of stuff.

Personally I've had great luck lowering the graphics of my games in order to be able easily be above 60 fps at all times.

Does Fast Sync work in Windowed/Borderless Fullscreen? It didn't (or was broken at least) a while back I'm pretty sure.

horrorshow said:

Let me know where you find it, I'm all for smoother frames!

Click to expand...

Well FFS its broekn here now

i just downloaded lord of the falle nbecause i knew that was the one itested with prior.
im having 45fps under no sync bt ser clear tearing on the windows where im standing before the first boss fight
enabled vsync ingamge and gone is the tearing but im at 30fps
enabled fast sync in nvida driver.
no diffrent still no tearing/30fps
disabled vsync in the game
Got the 45fps back but still tearing

So fast sync just puke on me
maybe i need to restart the game for the effect to kick in.
but it does kinda support why we might have had diffrent expericnes with fast sync. it seems... finicky

evilpaul said:

Does Fast Sync work in Windowed/Borderless Fullscreen? It didn't (or was broken at least) a while back I'm pretty sure.

Click to expand...

None of the Vsync modes work in anything but fullscreen. (if you want Vsync in a window, you have to use the in-game option)

SvenBent said:

but it does kinda support why we might have had diffrent expericnes with fast sync. it seems... finicky

Click to expand...

Yeah man, I mean.... I swear by it for CoD: Black Ops II !!

(but that's because without Vsync it's easily 200 fps)