Cliff Bleszinski Swears Off Making Videogames Forever

Zarathustra[H] said:

I was under the impression he had a pretty large creative hand in the development of WC Privateer, which I LOVED in the early 90's, but maybe not?

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He pitched the idea to the owners of Origin... as a pretty fresh 19 year old. They hired him and allowed him a Co producers credit... but they put the experienced Warren Spector on it. Which is why WC has all the branching story line stuff... which is a huge hallmark of a Spector game. Its why System Shock and even DeusEx feel almost a bit more like the early WC games then any of the later freelancer games.

Origin gave Roberts more control of the later WC games... but he almost put them out of business with every single one as he went WAY over budget. I can't remember which think it was WC4 that only shipped because Origins owners basically told Roberts in front of his team that if they didn't ship it by the end of the week all their pay cheques would probably bounce.

Roberts should be a known quantity to everyone at this point.... but like any good con man he has done a great job of Catching and destroying every negative story/interview possible over the years. There used to be interviews with the Origin founders where they said things like ya we like the kid but we would still be in business if we never met him. Spector was on record (good luck finding it now) as saying Roberts was a tool... I read an interview years back where he related a story about Ken Demarest was showing the Origin guys one of the first Fully 3D engines he was working on, and Roberts was the one guy that just didn't get it. (as far as I know Demarest was the first person to ever code texture mapping) Ken created Bioforge at Origin.

Anyway I'll digress... I know my Roberts hate can be a bit strong. lol

Nolan7689 said:

Well also of note is that he was already somewhat well off from prior successes with EPIC.

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Of course. I figured most people already knew this, further cementing that his quote about not getting paid a salary is pretty much just horse shit in general, no one cares about rich people that try to act pious.

ChadD said:

He pitched the idea to the owners of Origin... as a pretty fresh 19 year old. They hired him and allowed him a Co producers credit... but they put the experienced Warren Spector on it. Which is why WC has all the branching story line stuff... which is a huge hallmark of a Spector game. Its why System Shock and even DeusEx feel almost a bit more like the early WC games then any of the later freelancer games.

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I had never heard of Warrent Spector before, but knowing he had a big hand in at least two of my favorite series of all time (Privateer and Deus Ex) makes me think I should check outt more titles he has been involved in.

I never played System Shock. Maybe I should try it out, but I'm not sure I could get into something from 1994 at this point... Maybe I will just wait for the reboot, but Wikipedia says's it's not due out until 2020 at this point.

Zarathustra[H] said:

I had never heard of Warrent Spector before, but knowing he had a big hand in at least two of my favorite series of all time (Privateer and Deus Ex) makes me think I should check outt more titles he has been involved in.

I never played System Shock. Maybe I should try it out, but I'm not sure I could get into something from 1994 at this point... Maybe I will just wait for the reboot, but Wikipedia says's it's not due out until 2020 at this point.

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Nightdive sells a slightly updated version on steam...

they are also working on a modern engine rework

Spector is actually working on System shock 3... haven't heard anything about the project in awhile. Hopefully that isn't a bad thing.
https://otherside-e.com/wp/games/system-shock-3/

He isn't the producer of record on the Thief games... but he played an important role there as well. He left looking glass before the first Thief was finished. His company took over Thief 3 though and got it done.

EDIT oh he also produced the coolest game on the wii.

TMCM said:

Just so you know, the word entitlement, means something you have a right to. For instance: when you exchange money for something, you have a right to it ie you are entitled to it. It really seems to be over the last few years peopel have started thinking the word entitlement means freebie when that is completely incorrect.

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this comes from the expression "feel entitled" not the word by itself. implying they feel entitled even though they are not.

Patton187 said:

Get woke, go broke.

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I get woke when I drink coffee in the morning I buy the cheap instant stuff.

If you don't want people to give you shit about them not being able to play the game they paid for, one may want to consider making sure they are allowed to play said game.

Any failure to do so not only leaches money from paying costumers, it also greatly damages future higher-risk games as burned costumers turn away from those.

The real trick to not getting bashed by your customers is to release a quality product. Boggles the mind that we live in a world where people put out shit games and then whine over being called out for it.

jfreund said:

I swore off Cliffy B's games at least a decade ago. It sucks the studio closed and people lost their jobs, but there are really good games that don't do well commercially. A substandard game without a major franchise title on it will not keep a business running.

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He was at the top of the food chain on a team that made a game featuring a chainsaw gun & gore at exactly the correct, "Aligning of the moons lightning in a bottle moment." He also scribbled a rough concept of what was to become fortnight. Once upon a time, the man was defiantly something in the industry.

Now he is rich and comfortable and making video games is a risky, expensive crap shoot. Its a lot like gambling and Cliffy rolled "Snake Eyes" like 99.999999999999999% of developers do. In this industry, one failure is usually enough to cause a studio to go tits up. Cliffy actually lasted a lot longer than I thought he was going to. Getting to the top is improbable, but staying on the top is nearly impossible....which goes for any form or consumer entertainment.

I think Cliffy was trying to be larger than life "Bombastic personality" like a Doctor DIsrescpect character....but it got interpreted by TEH INTERNETZ as total, utter, debauchery. There are two certainties I have learned in the entertainment industry. #1 People love to root for the underdog and #2 people LOVE to see other people fail. I believe #2 is ingrained within our DNA as seeing other people fail makes us "instinctively" feel better about our personal failures and under achievements.

Was Lawbreakers bad or good? Personally, I think it sucked balls, however, I don't think "bad or good" really matters as its so subjective. What matters, and I quote Luke Skywalker here..."What matters is DID IT MAKE ANY MONEY? It does not have to be good to make money."

Going into game development is a good way to be poor. Until your not.

oldmanbal said:

"I paid my employees, their 401ks, and their health care - even months after the studio folded. So they could care for their families. I didn't take a salary myself for two years. I get you're sad, but god, this kinda sh*t is another reason I am NEVER making another game."

As a business owner, the sheer amount of money you spend from the 'company accounts' on all your personal needs is typically astronomical. I'd reservedly claim that he spent over 50k/year of the company money on himself 'in the name of the company'. To claim he didn't get paid a salary may be technically accurate, it still had no impact on his lifestyle or comfort level.

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My boss loves to say "I haven't had a raise in 5 years". Oh that's interesting, so your fixed salary of $4 million hasn't changed, but the "dividend" you pay yourself at the end of the year has grown from $1m to $3m. I kind of consider that a raise but what do i know.

Zarathustra[H] said:

I had never heard of Warren Spector ...

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What blasphemy is this? One should ALWAYS take notice of the name Warren Spector;
Seek Ye it out from under dust or loam, from any vagaries the mists of time have veiled around your life for the inner eye of the Spector will illuminate the absent spaces in your mind that you didn't know were missing.

Also I would heed ChadD , but would strongly suggest that you start with System Shock 2 ( and when the robots ( 'where did you go sir?') kill you repeatedly as you search for the key card to gain access to the security control room...stop and think long and hard about the character you crafted (up to that point). A generalized character will not be able to finish that game. You MUST choose a character path and stick to it other wise you will never have the powers or resource to finish the game . I have yet to see another game balance itself the way SS2 did/does . Plus the enemy players actually beg you to kill them , and you also get ghosts and evil monkeys )

(Absalom has shamed me into adding some small credit for John Romero: thank you john for helping Spector get Deus Ex made , and for using your extremely hot wife as the model for ( heavy metal )F.A.K.K. 2, and slowly undressing her as the game progressed. ( but you lose some points for the collision detection and combat system being so frustrating that playing the game all the way through made me soo insane The Joker hangs my picture on his wall for inspiration, and I will be kind enough not to mention the flies in that other game ))

Lest we forget, we owe John Romero some small thanks for paving the way for Warren Spector to create his "dream game" via Deus Ex. Who knows what would have happened to Spector as the industry was saying "no thanks" to a lot of his (at the time) bold ideas.

l88bastard said:

He was at the top of the food chain on a team that made a game featuring a chainsaw gun & gore at exactly the correct, "Aligning of the moons lightning in a bottle moment." He also scribbled a rough concept of what was to become fortnight. Once upon a time, the man was defiantly something in the industry.

Now he is rich and comfortable and making video games is a risky, expensive crap shoot. Its a lot like gambling and Cliffy rolled "Snake Eyes" like 99.999999999999999% of developers do. In this industry, one failure is usually enough to cause a studio to go tits up. Cliffy actually lasted a lot longer than I thought he was going to. Getting to the top is improbable, but staying on the top is nearly impossible....which goes for any form or consumer entertainment.

I think Cliffy was trying to be larger than life "Bombastic personality" like a Doctor DIsrescpect character....but it got interpreted by TEH INTERNETZ as total, utter, debauchery. There are two certainties I have learned in the entertainment industry. #1 People love to root for the underdog and #2 people LOVE to see other people fail. I believe #2 is ingrained within our DNA as seeing other people fail makes us "instinctively" feel better about our personal failures and under achievements.

Was Lawbreakers bad or good? Personally, I think it sucked balls, however, I don't think "bad or good" really matters as its so subjective. What matters, and I quote Luke Skywalker here..."What matters is DID IT MAKE ANY MONEY? It does not have to be good to make money."

Going into game development is a good way to be poor. Until your not.

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This analysis is a perfect summation. You really need to post more.

Silverlok said:

What blasphemy is this? One should ALWAYS take notice of the name Warren Spector

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I guess I'm just not that kind of fanboy.

I can probably tell you what studio releases my favorite games, but I never paid any attention to the credits. Same with movies.

I design medical devices that save people's lives. My name doesn't roll by patients eyeballs in a row of credits as they awake from anesthesia, and I don't expect that it should, and I'd argue this is orders of magnitude more important than the few hours of entertainment one gets from a movie or a game.

This shit belongs on their resume. They should be happy with being paid for their work. They don't need to be fetishized in credits and awards shows.

Celebrities, and apparently also game devs are some whiny little attention whores

And by never make video games again he means he's going to only make freemium games for iPhone, android and facebook.

good fucking riddence

Zarathustra[H] said:

I guess I'm just not that kind of fanboy.

I can probably tell you what studio releases my favorite games, but I never paid any attention to the credits. Same with movies.

I design medical devices that save people's lives. My name doesn't roll by patients eyeballs in a row of credits as they awake from anesthesia, and I don't expect that it should, and I'd argue this is orders of magnitude more important than the few hours of entertainment one gets from a movie or a game.

This shit belongs on their resume. They should be happy with being paid for their work. They don't need to be fetishized in credits and awards shows.

Celebrities, and apparently also game devs are some whiny little attention whores

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No doubt that is one of the issues with the celebrity game producers. For the most part its completely unearned... most of them are just in the right place at the right time. For the most part "producer" is just a management role. A lot of guys have one hit with their name tagged on and they trade on that for years even if their big hit was really the product of 20 other super talented peoples inspired golden moment. There are a few exceptions though... guys like Carmak and Spector. Carmak through his own sheer super genius level coding skills. Spector is a super rarity imo, he has imagination, vision... and from all accounts expert management skills. Guys like Roberts tend to show their true ability when you look at their follow ups.. its hard to understand why gamers hold some producers up seemingly for zero reason.

Zarathustra[H] said:

I guess I'm just not that kind of fanboy.

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It's not about being a fan boy , it's about recognizing talent and knowing where and on what to spend your irredeemable time. Spector has managed to reliably pump out exceptional content again and again
, but if I were to ever meet him I would tell him , " don't get cocky kid " ( because, as you note , that happen more often than not )

I design medical devices that save people's lives. My name doesn't roll by patients eyeballs in a row of credits (SIC) and I don't expect that it should ...

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Now here is where you and I disagree; I think CREATORS should get recognized ( but not idolized ) . It is disheartening to think of how many of the most important creators to have ever existed through-out the history of this planet are not remembered , studied , and taught about to children. I think as a race it behooves us to illuminate the best and brightest among us

I'd argue this is orders of magnitude more important than the few hours of entertainment one gets from a movie or a game

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YES. Though I have an opportunity to ask a question that constantly rides dolphin like amidst the bow wave of my existence: DO you think all of the people that are saved by the machines you invent are worthy of saving? What if one of your machines saves the life of a rapist or mass murderer ? It is almost a certainty that , that will happen one day.

This shit belongs on their resume. They should be happy with being paid for their work. They don't need to be fetishized in credits and awards shows.

Celebrities, and apparently also game devs are some whiny little attention whores

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Can't disagree with you there, but some few do occasionally rise about the fray.

ChadD said:

No doubt that is one of the issues with the celebrity game producers. For the most part its completely unearned... most of them are just in the right place at the right time. For the most part "producer" is just a management role. A lot of guys have one hit with their name tagged on and they trade on that for years even if their big hit was really the product of 20 other super talented peoples inspired golden moment. There are a few exceptions though... guys like Carmak and Spector. Carmak through his own sheer super genius level coding skills. Spector is a super rarity imo, he has imagination, vision... and from all accounts expert management skills. Guys like Roberts tend to show their true ability when you look at their follow ups.. its hard to understand why gamers hold some producers up seemingly for zero reason.

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If I had $20 million to make a video game that would make a profit..you bet my life I would get Miyamoto He's up there as game developer that I KNOW will deliver something truly beautiful.

For all those people who gave more detail about CHris Robert. Thanks! I didn't realize that. While I have to research more rather than just take what people say on the internet, I could understand the vitriol towards Roberts a little more now. How much do you think is fueled by jealousy over reason though? Seems a lot of people get angry that it's 200million that people Voluntarily gave him.

I get the impression that CliffyB is good at making games but not good at the business side of gaming, which are two very different things.

Arena shooters are dead. LawBreakers may or may not have been a very good game, but there isn't a market for that type of game anymore from what I have seen. There aren't ANY big arena shooters now. Maybe he thought the market was ripe for a new one, but that was a gamble that didn't pay off.

He has a big mouth but seems like a decent enough guy overall. The hate seems played out.

THRESHIN said:

Imagine if they made a game together? It would be proof that there is no god. Each copy would open a black hole and devour the entire universe.

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BS, you know damn well that it would be a God sim based on themselves as playable characters and Peter Molyneux as the final boss.

trentchau said:

If I had $20 million to make a video game that would make a profit..you bet my life I would get Miyamoto He's up there as game developer that I KNOW will deliver something truly beautiful.

For all those people who gave more detail about CHris Robert. Thanks! I didn't realize that. While I have to research more rather than just take what people say on the internet, I could understand the vitriol towards Roberts a little more now. How much do you think is fueled by jealousy over reason though? Seems a lot of people get angry that it's 200million that people Voluntarily gave him.

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I think for a lot of people its more that he has ruined crowd sourcing for video games. After SC crashes and burns or he does something as annoying like sell his studio off to EA or some other sucker. Good projects will have a hard uphill battle when it comes to raising funds via crowd sourcing. I always thought the idea of donations to developers was a stupid idea... but for some games like Elite Dangerous as an example, a few million to get a 10 million dollar budgeted game seems a pretty fair trade.

Seeing Roberts get praise for a carer of failure, lies, and illegal activity is just annoying. It would be like watching Bernie madoff get out of prison and start taking people again.

Roberts movies where all bankrolled by a guy named Andreas Schmid who operated a Germany movie investment firm VIP Medienfonds. The entire thing was a ponzi scheme based on German laws at the time that treated movie investment as a business partnership allowing average Germans to invest in movie fund firms and get massive tax breaks no matter how much money was returned to them. (loosing money wasn't loosing money if it was a complete write off on your taxes). VIP and Schmid however only spent around 20% of their Billion+ in cash on movies. They used the rest to secure even more money from bank loans. Pocketing 100s of millions in cash.... and keeping things going for years as long as they kept pulling in new German investors. 90% of the movies Schmid bankrolled where Ascendant pictures (Lucky number sleaven, Lord of war, outlander, ask the dust) Every Ascendant picture was bankrolled by VIP. Roberts was personally involved in multiple investor drives, and based on Schmid testimony and testimony of some of the bank folk that also ended up in prison Roberts was also involved in a few of the loans... German authorities wanted to speak to him. Roberts never went to Germany to provide testimony. Sure he was never charged, but I think if he had been stupid enough to provide testimony he would have been. I'm not sure why the Germans didn't charge him and try to get him extradited perhaps they felt it was more expensive and more hassle then it would have been worth for a white collar 3-4 year prison term offense.

The reason no one wanted to invest in SC from day one... was 100% roberts not the genre of game or te fact it was aimed at PC only as he claimed 6 or 7 years back. He screwed MS over selling them his vapor ware company. He paid other developers to make "Roberts" games before that... and before that was one of the biggest reasons Origin systems went under. He has burned everyone that has invested in him. Now he is burning regular people that are "investing" in his game. Some people think he is just a dreamer with too many ideas... but no he is just your garden variety scammer.