Fallout 76 is Allegedly Easy to Hack

Looks like servers running "Forever" isn't going to be very long at all.
 
We went through this with ESO and Fallout 4. A big pile of crapping on what's new, and especially different.

ESO ran well from the start but they had to continually nerf it for the hordes of people who were not into learning to fight. I loved the combat and my StamDK and Magsorc both soloed all the original World Bosses. It took a lot of fooling around and experimenting to get the best out my chars but I came close to what was possible.

Fallout 4 ran pretty well as well and I played Survival in that game for over 800 hours. I got to the point my high level chars did not get killed, and deleted the game. ;)

Fallout 76 is a better game that Fallout 4 and I'm gonna waste some serious time playing with my new toy.
 
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Filter said:
once i found out this is using the same engine as fallout 4 i said "bye felicia"
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Fallout 4 was using the same engine as Skyrim, Skyrim was using the same engine as Oblivion, Fallout 3 was using the same engine as oblivion, was using the same engine as Morrowind....

You're way late to the bye felicia train.
 
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Krenum said:
Fallout 4 was using the same engine as Skyrim, Skyrim was using the same engine as Oblivion, Oblivion was using the same engine as Morrowind....

You're way late to the bye felicia train.
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In all fairness it was an excellent engine, but Morrowind was 2002.
 
Krenum said:
Fallout 4 was using the same engine as Skyrim, Skyrim was using the same engine as Oblivion, Oblivion was using the same engine as Morrowind....

You're way late to the bye felicia train.
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skyrim wasnt an issue but once 144hz monitors came out Its a joke now. i cant even play skyrim unless in want to play at 60hz. screw that noise.
 
PenGunn said:
OK. This is why its great:

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That guy probably thinks he is having a threesome, with one lady watching while he bangs the other, while in reality he is on jacking off with one hand while the other is at rest.

What he described I have seen in several mmo's with far more depth than this pos.
 
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Filter said:
skyrim wasnt an issue but once 144hz monitors came out Its a joke now. i cant even play skyrim unless in want to play at 60hz. screw that noise.
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You have to limit the fps to 119 fps. Anything over 120 will cause the Poltergeist to come out. So, if you're using sync, limit it to 120hz and you'll be fine.
 
filip said:
That guy probably thinks he is having a threesome, with one lady watching while he bangs the other, while in reality he is on jacking off with his hand.

What he described I have seen in several mmo's with far more depth than this pos.
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My thoughts too. It's a single player game at its best(worst), with IRL people in it who add absolutely nothing. That's why i requested and was granted a refund. If you just didnt happen to be in an instance with other players who really wanted to roll the way you wanted, it was boring x 100000000. Even if you had a group of folks, the gameplay was far less engaging than 100 other co-op online games out there.
 
SomeoneElse said:
They are taking a beating in the news lately for this game.......It sounds like it could turn into a large dumpster fire if they don't get serious with fixing the bugs and take a good long look at design....client side collision...never a good idea for an online only game.
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Seriusly, these aren't bugs, these are specific traits of the engine that you can't just fix. At least not without major rewrites of the code. Remember their bs defence of their engine a few months back, and how they don't want to switch anytime soon? It would be karma justice if their garbage engine makes fallout 76 a complete failure.
 
filip said:
That guy probably thinks he is having a threesome, with one lady watching while he bangs the other, while in reality he is on jacking off with one hand while the other is at rest.

What he described I have seen in several mmo's with far more depth than this pos.
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Exactly. There is nothing unique or new in that description of events.
 
PenGunn said:
There is something weird going on. My play was the best I've seen, no lag and not one hitch today. Yet many people with much better processors and less resolution than mine are suffering stuttering and the lag you experienced today. I have a GTX 1070 with 6G memory and I wonder if that has anything to do with it. I am running full screen as well. I found that was definitely better.
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Since its gamebryo there is an odd condition which hits lower end setups more than higher end setups. Gamebryo doesn't handle "dumbing itself down" very well.. in fact to dumb itself down it actually has to use more internal power to do so since due to the way its designed it has to constantly tell itself to dumb things down. If you run at the highest settings there are no hitches in the engine since that's the default design parameters.

It makes sense for a long run game to do this since launch day isn't really your target audience. 2 years in is for DLC/GOTY sales(margin).

I know its meme to hate on Bethesda bugs but in reality, gamebryo is a stunning engine. It's arguably better than any Unreal, unity, epic, etc out there. It actually is an engine which can handle whatever you want to do. Want space? It can do that. Want FPS? It can do that. Want RTS? It can do that. The only limitation is the fact that to do anything well with gamebryo you have to have the plan FIRM before you start or you will have fked up dependencies everywhere.

Engines great.. just requires autistic idiot savants to make work fully.
 
Nafensoriel said:
I know its meme to hate on Bethesda bugs but in reality, gamebryo is a stunning engine. It's arguably better than any Unreal, unity, epic, etc out there. It actually is an engine which can handle whatever you want to do. Want space? It can do that. Want FPS? It can do that. Want RTS? It can do that. The only limitation is the fact that to do anything well with gamebryo you have to have the plan FIRM before you start or you will have fked up dependencies everywhere.
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So unreal and unity can't do space?! I haven't heard such concentrated nonsense in my entire life. gamybryo being better than ue, lol. I'd prefer ue2.5 and that's 15 years old.
 
M76 said:
Seriusly, these aren't bugs, these are specific traits of the engine that you can't just fix. At least not without major rewrites of the code. Remember their bs defence of their engine a few months back, and how they don't want to switch anytime soon? It would be karma justice if their garbage engine makes fallout 76 a complete failure.
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That's why they need to get serious. This game is going to be destroyed by hackers and cheaters. Speed hacks seriously? Come on! How could they even overlook a bug that has been around for decades in games.....they rushed this POS out the door and want to pull in as much cash as possible with putting forth as little effort as possible. Bethesda used to be a respectable company but this is just a simple cash grab....
 
SomeoneElse said:
That's why they need to get serious. This game is going to be destroyed by hackers and cheaters. Speed hacks seriously? Come on! How could they even overlook a bug that has been around for decades in games.....they rushed this POS out the door and want to pull in as much cash as possible with putting forth as little effort as possible. Bethesda used to be a respectable company but this is just a simple cash grab....
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I really thought they got their shit together when they boldly made the forever claims. In this state they're lucky if the player base lasts a year.
 
No worries, it's been disproven. Not that this revelation will change anyone's opinion.
Turns out they're using DTLS and DIS.

TLDR; fake news.
 
Nafensoriel said:
Since its gamebryo there is an odd condition which hits lower end setups more than higher end setups. Gamebryo doesn't handle "dumbing itself down" very well.. in fact to dumb itself down it actually has to use more internal power to do so since due to the way its designed it has to constantly tell itself to dumb things down. If you run at the highest settings there are no hitches in the engine since that's the default design parameters.

It makes sense for a long run game to do this since launch day isn't really your target audience. 2 years in is for DLC/GOTY sales(margin).

I know its meme to hate on Bethesda bugs but in reality, gamebryo is a stunning engine. It's arguably better than any Unreal, unity, epic, etc out there. It actually is an engine which can handle whatever you want to do. Want space? It can do that. Want FPS? It can do that. Want RTS? It can do that. The only limitation is the fact that to do anything well with gamebryo you have to have the plan FIRM before you start or you will have fked up dependencies everywhere.

Engines great.. just requires autistic idiot savants to make work fully.
Click to expand...

Maybe in 2002, this is 2018 buddy, most other engines are WAY better than gamebryo now. Bethesda desperately needs to make gamebryo 2.

LightningEagle7 said:
No worries, it's been disproven. Not that this revelation will change anyone's opinion.

Turns out they're using DTLS and DIS.

TLDR; fake news.
Click to expand...

So there are no bugs? The game is hack proof? What are you on about, this Reddit post is the last thing that's causing people to drop fallout 76.
 
Aireoth said:
Maybe in 2002, this is 2018 buddy, most other engines are WAY better than gamebryo now. Bethesda desperately needs to make gamebryo 2.



So there are no bugs? The game is hack proof? What are you on about, this Reddit post is the last thing that's causing people to drop fallout 76.
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I wasn't talking about bugs? Nor am I stating it's hack proof? I'm directly replying to the headline.

What does the original reddit post from the headlines assert; that the game doesn't use encryption. The orginial poster (by the way the guy who made that post's account is about a week old and has done nothing but dump on the game, make of that what you will) then offers no actual evidence to support the assertion.

The authort of the thread I posted makes the counter assertion that it does actually use encryption, and offers actual evidence to support his claims. I think you can make your own conclusions from that.
 
LightningEagle7 said:
I wasn't talking about bugs? Nor am I stating it's hack proof? I'm directly replying to the headline.

What does the original reddit post from the headlines assert; that the game doesn't use encryption. The orginial poster (by the way the guy who made that post's account is about a week old and has done nothing but dump on the game, make of that what you will) then offers no actual evidence to support the assertion.

The authort of the thread I posted makes the counter assertion that it does actually use encryption, and offers actual evidence to support his claims. I think you can make your own conclusions from that.
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First off the headline asserts it is easy to hack. Which has already been proven true (see speed hack)

Second the article doesn't say that it doesn't use encryption at all, it says it doesn't use encryption on everything. There are some things that are encrypted. And your reddit quote proves just that: There is communication that is encrypted but It says in the very post you quote that gameplay packets aren't encrypted.

My own conclusion is that the post you cite doesn't disprove the "easy to hack" claim.
 
M76 said:
First off the headline asserts it is easy to hack. Which has already been proven true (see speed hack)

Second the article doesn't say that it doesn't use encryption at all, it says it doesn't use encryption on everything. There are some things that are encrypted. And your reddit quote proves just that: There is communication that is encrypted but It says in the very post you quote that gameplay packets aren't encrypted.

My own conclusion is that the post you cite doesn't disprove the "easy to hack" claim.
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Correct, that is what the post I linked says. However the og post states:

"Number 3: Want to save money on server hardware and make ping a little more manageable? Go ahead and open up client to client communication but don't encrypt it or obfuscate it in anyway. Open up Wireshark while playing and nab anyone's IP you want! Send packets to the server to auto use consumables, all very nicely and in plain text! Even get health info and player location, why waste time injecting the executable and getting nabbed by anti-cheat when you can get all info from the network!"

This is demonstrably false. The claim there is no encryption or obfuscation of any kind is false. And you can't nab anyone's ip. While some gameplay elements not being encrpyed is a cause for concern, it's hardly the game ending law suit inducing mishap many are making it out to be.
 
Aireoth said:
Maybe in 2002, this is 2018 buddy, most other engines are WAY better than gamebryo now. Bethesda desperately needs to make gamebryo 2.



So there are no bugs? The game is hack proof? What are you on about, this Reddit post is the last thing that's causing people to drop fallout 76.
Click to expand...
You do understand that the engine has been constantly upgraded over the years yes? Skyrim creation engine is gamebryo 4 technically. The last remaining vestige of "old" in it is the papyrus script engine. It actually limits things like NPC count etc rather harshly at the moment. In FO4 it's still basically a clubbed Morrowind era script engine.
This aspect is being upgraded. Heck its probably in FO76 I just haven't had the time to poke around at its innards. Mechanically it is the most scalable engine on the market period dot end.

Also yes, It is better than Unreal on the simple ground that unreal has to use ass backwards methods to get some gameplay elements to work. Even frostbite has these issues(technically worse issues). Remember when an actor in fallout does a task it does it in exclusion. That means if two actors walk up to each other and start to fight nothing but the actors themselves trigger it. No on the terrainmap switches nothing. You can opt to use triggers like that but they are not required. This includes the way animations sync.

The problem is, again, that it requires an autistic idiot savant to code it well. The engine has never been used to its full potential by anyone to date. Capability wise it has the capacity to look better than any other engine in a larger more diverse world and its actors have complete independence of action from the terrain. Do not take capacity to equal "hey BF4 looks better than FO4 so FO4 Engine is old and sucks". I can put a Hemi in a Prius but without proper design, that Prius is still a paperweight.
 
Upgrayedd said:
Lol what? Did you just trash talk someone for wanting to save money? Did you preorder a 2080 Ti too? Telling someone to move from pc to console cause they don't have $60 for every game they want is dumb af, we all know games are more expensive on consoles then there is online subscription service. Don't be such an uppidy elitists.
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Nope, and I find it rather obtuse that you see it as such.

Nothing wrong with wanting to save money, that's frequently how one reaches a point in life where they don't have to pinch pennies so hard.

A person spends say $500 a year on computer hardware, on average now. Some more, some less, but let's set an amount as an example. And let's say a personal goes through three titles a year that he is spending 80% or more of his time on in any given year. And let's say he pays $60 for each so that's almost $700 a year on his gaming entertainment and if he get's in 20 hours a week, 80 hours a month of game time in this example, so in a year, this guy plays about 1,000 hours at a cost of $.70 cents an hour. That's what this guy is paying an hour to play. Now how much of a difference is it if he only paid $30 for his three biggest games? $590 / 1000 hrs = $.59 cents an hour. 0.11 cents an hour difference, to play what you want when it comes out, vs waiting until it's cheaper.

Now personanlly, I blow these numbers right out of the water, I do 50+ hours a week, I spend far more on hardware upgrades, meaning my gaming entertainment costs are far higher than my example, but not so much the number of different titles, so in comparison, although I spend far more overall, the difference in the costs of waiting for cheaper game costs becomes small in comparison.

It's not elitism, it's perspective.
 
lcpiper said:
Nope, and I find it rather obtuse that you see it as such.

Nothing wrong with wanting to save money, that's frequently how one reaches a point in life where they don't have to pinch pennies so hard.

A person spends say $500 a year on computer hardware, on average now. Some more, some less, but let's set an amount as an example. And let's say a personal goes through three titles a year that he is spending 80% or more of his time on in any given year. And let's say he pays $60 for each so that's almost $700 a year on his gaming entertainment and if he get's in 20 hours a week, 80 hours a month of game time in this example, so in a year, this guy plays about 1,000 hours at a cost of $.70 cents an hour. That's what this guy is paying an hour to play. Now how much of a difference is it if he only paid $30 for his three biggest games? $590 / 1000 hrs = $.59 cents an hour. 0.11 cents an hour difference, to play what you want when it comes out, vs waiting until it's cheaper.

Now personanlly, I blow these numbers right out of the water, I do 50+ hours a week, I spend far more on hardware upgrades, meaning my gaming entertainment costs are far higher than my example, but not so much the number of different titles, so in comparison, although I spend far more overall, the difference in the costs of waiting for cheaper game costs becomes small in comparison.

It's not elitism, it's perspective.
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...really.."If you let $50 stand in the way of your gaming enjoyment go to console instead" when its literally $50 a year just to play online. Wherever you started coming up with gaming costs per hour beats the shit outta me, I usually just pay once and keep it forever, but I guess if the years keep on going and I just keep playing the same game then the cost per hour keeps going down and I get more value out of it yeah? See where that just went, that was my ass talking. You wanted someone to switch to console cause they don't like paying $60 for trash and their gaming costs per hour weren't efficient enough.
 
LightningEagle7 said:
No worries, it's been disproven. Not that this revelation will change anyone's opinion.

Turns out they're using DTLS and DIS.

TLDR; fake news.
Click to expand...

That's a good find, but it doesn't disprove the client side collision detection, or the lack of an integrity check that allows for a simple lockpick mod. Though it does cast more doubt on the veracity of the original Reddit post.
 
Nafensoriel said:
You do understand that the engine has been constantly upgraded over the years yes? Skyrim creation engine is gamebryo 4 technically. The last remaining vestige of "old" in it is the papyrus script engine. It actually limits things like NPC count etc rather harshly at the moment. In FO4 it's still basically a clubbed Morrowind era script engine.
This aspect is being upgraded. Heck its probably in FO76 I just haven't had the time to poke around at its innards. Mechanically it is the most scalable engine on the market period dot end.

Also yes, It is better than Unreal on the simple ground that unreal has to use ass backwards methods to get some gameplay elements to work. Even frostbite has these issues(technically worse issues). Remember when an actor in fallout does a task it does it in exclusion. That means if two actors walk up to each other and start to fight nothing but the actors themselves trigger it. No on the terrainmap switches nothing. You can opt to use triggers like that but they are not required. This includes the way animations sync.

The problem is, again, that it requires an autistic idiot savant to code it well. The engine has never been used to its full potential by anyone to date. Capability wise it has the capacity to look better than any other engine in a larger more diverse world and its actors have complete independence of action from the terrain. Do not take capacity to equal "hey BF4 looks better than FO4 so FO4 Engine is old and sucks". I can put a Hemi in a Prius but without proper design, that Prius is still a paperweight.
Click to expand...

I have a hard time believing what you said. Savant's don't like the best, they like things that allow them to most scratch their 'itch', so if savants like gamebryo, it isn't necessarily because its the best, but because it is the weirdest, or most open. For example, even heavily modded, every Gamebryo engine game i have played has the worst shooting in an FPS/TPS I've ever experienced. VATS is almost required in all fallout games to compensate for the shitty shooting. The engine has limits, and a full rebuild of it would imho be able to address them. Without it, those things will never change.
 
Upgrayedd said:
...really.."If you let $50 stand in the way of your gaming enjoyment go to console instead" when its literally $50 a year just to play online. Wherever you started coming up with gaming costs per hour beats the shit outta me, I usually just pay once and keep it forever, but I guess if the years keep on going and I just keep playing the same game then the cost per hour keeps going down and I get more value out of it yeah? See where that just went, that was my ass talking. You wanted someone to switch to console cause they don't like paying $60 for trash and their gaming costs per hour weren't efficient enough.
Click to expand...


It's not your ass talking. Look, all of your time is valuable, your work time, and your play time. I didn't even add that to the equation, but the point of the whole "example" was that the difference in paying more isn't worth waiting a year for. It shouldn't even be a consideration in your mind, because almost any gamer pays so much as it is, for our hobby, that the difference over the play time of a title is not worth counting.
 
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