Homelessness Tax Would Target Rich Tech Sector in San Francisco

Huh? How am I suggesting that those who don't share my values should be targeted? I'm speaking against the theft of wealth. Whose wealth am I somehow advocating should be taken from them? I advocate no such thing. I don't think anyone should forcefully take/steal the wealth that has been earned from anyone else. I think you're confused as to what I'm saying here.

If that was not you advocating for taxing the rich and/or only taxing the "bad" rich, then my apologies. My posts were directed at them and the belief system which holds that tax rates should be increased on those with more wealth.
 
If that was not you advocating for taxing the rich and/or only taxing the "bad" rich, then my apologies. My posts were directed at them and the belief system which holds that tax rates should be increased on those with more wealth.
I think I see the miscommunication. I said that rich people who attempt to change the rules of the system so that others can't even compete with them are evil, and should be opposed. By "opposed", I just mean that we should not allow them to tilt the playing field solely in their favor. I'm not advocating for taxing them more or trying to take their wealth away. And it's not just rich people here--anyone that tries to crowd out competition and create an unfair system of laws should be opposed in this way.

The Ambassador Bridge guy should not be allowed to crowd out competing Bridges via the legal system. I'm not suggesting that we take his money away or anything crazy like that.

I'm very much against "Progressive" tax systems that target the wealthy at higher rates than everyone else.
 
The new trend is living on boats in alameda harbor. A couple of my coworkers who are in there late 20s figured out you can buy a large live on boat for less than $30-40k and spend well under $800 a month in boat slip plus utilities. The resourceful and smart always find a way.
Berkeley and Oakland plus Mountain View and other places are most likely going to start pushing back against all these RVs being parked by the lake and by the bay— Berkeley already has begun.
Yeah this is nothing new, in the late 90s when I was in grad school one of the students in the same program as me lived on a boat, at Pier 39 of all fucking places, and she paid like $350/month rent effectively.

Just looking at Oyster Point in SSF, a 30 ft boat docking fees are $250/month, 60 ft boats cost about twice that. However just to show you how much people try to avoid paying money for shit, it costs like anohter $300+ if you actually want to live on your boat, but people never fucking pay that. I mean oh no you can't be fucked with paying $600 to live in the bay area, but $250 then sure! And the people living on boats do all sorts of nasty stuff like dump their waste overboard, it's so fucking disgusting the level people will go through to save a buck.
 
So I'm confused. Are there people stupid enough to be making $117,000 a year (for a family of 4) who are homeless in SF?
In a nutshell, no... no family that's bringing in nearly $120k/year is homeless in SF unless they choose to be homeless. After taxes you're take home is still $90k/year, that leaves $7500 a month for ALL your expenses, and while yeah it's expensive in SF it ain't that fucking expensive, sure day care for 2 kids could chomp half of that amount away, or not depending upon how you run with it.
 
What is deemed poverty in San Francisco is BALLIN' where I am at.

Maybe it's a good thing I don't make that kind of cash. I'd be utterly stupid with it.
 
Working on the streets of what I assume is one city, is not indicative of poverty worldwide. People treat each other differently from one city to the next, let alone one country to the next.

Of course they need a job, you think they don't fucking know that? I know there's some that have their own reasons not to try to get a job, but they are most certainly the exception, not the norm.

I've worked on the streets, with the purpose being to figure out how to help people bridge that gap, and the answer 'get a job' is still the same. It's harder, but it's right.
 
Depends on your preference for safety. I saw a shitty house for sale in Oakland but we wouldn’t be neighbors. You’d also be robbed every time you went to work.
Hope you’re bullet proof.
More realistically once you got to either Tracy/Stockton (minimum 2.5 hours each way) or Brentwood Antioch (probably similar) during rush hour you’d decide to leave. Although a lot of people don’t work in SF. I live in Oakland and work in Walnut Creek which is about a 20 minute opposite traffic commute.

Thanks, Krazy925. 2-1/2 hours each way is crazy!
 
I'm sure someone has already touched on this but it's less of a homeless problem and more of a mental-health problem. The mentally ill are the red-headed stepchildren of society. Medical care is far more expensive than propping a sick person up with a sandwich and a blanket.
 
Let's see now. No money to retain. No computer to write up a new resume. No printer to print resumes with. No home address to receive mail to, or put on applications. No phone to receive calls for interviews. No appropriate attire to interview in. No showers to wash in. No ability to get a haircut or shave. No recent work to show.

Are you seriously so out of touch with poverty that that is your first, and only question? Get with the times.


You got to be fucking kidding.

Let's start a little earlier.

Who didn't see the writing on the wall?

Who decided not to finish high school?

Who didn't see the end coming and retrain before they lost all income?

Who got their ass so far in a crack that they lost everything and was surprised when it happened?

Who doesn't know where to find the Public Library, that has computers, printers, (by the way, the only resume I print is my own, I email it to companies and post it on monster, I don't pass out a hard copy like a flier), email addresses work just fine for receiving job offers, and if you have a problem with phones, clothes, etc, TELL THEM.

And there isn't a homeless person in the united states that can't scare up enough for a haircut and a shave. If that were the case they'd be dead in days from starvation.

Now the hard part, yes poverty is hard. Yes some people were barely treading water and finally, the water just got too deep. But don't make stupid excuses for them or set foolish barriers and false hurdles. The homeless in this country are homeless for a very few reasons;

#1 Very bad life choices

#2 Failure to adapt

#3 It's not that hard, just give up, give in, stop trying and let it roll on. Get a bottle when you can, a handout, a needle, whatever your thing is. Then you don't have to do any of those difficult things people expect of you.

#4 Because they hate themselves, are punishing themselves, self pity, self loathing, etc.

#5 The one that should draw real pity and deserve real help, the mentally ill who have been turned out by those who no longer want to care for them.

My wife helps this old Korean woman, she was married to a G.I. back in the day. Korean women back then often didn't finish high school, their families couldn't afford it, so this old gal is completely illiterate, not just English, Korean too. So her husband died, she get's Social Security, lives in low income housing, used to work as a bagger for tips at the commissary on base, but not much anymore, she's like 80, it's too hard for her now. This woman is completely dependent on others for everything.

So by know you should be wondering where I am going with this?

If an 80+ year old, illiterate with no skillz, no capacity to read, etc, has a roof, money to burn at the casino, etc. Then why are these people out on the streets again?


My opinion is, you should stop making excuses for these people and their bad choices in life. That, and you should accept that some people are there by choice.
 
I'm sure someone has already touched on this but it's less of a homeless problem and more of a mental-health problem. The mentally ill are the red-headed stepchildren of society. Medical care is far more expensive than propping a sick person up with a sandwich and a blanket.


This is without any doubt a big part of it. It's not all of them by any stretch, but it's undeniably a noteworthy part of the homeless population and it's shameful.

So many think it's being homeless that made them nutz when it was being nutz that made them homeless.



Please understand, I do not intend disparagement on the mentally ill when I call them "nutz". The word just felt right for my message, or how I wanted it to read.
 
I think there are many causes that trigger addiction. Poverty and unhappiness is one of them. Another is simply getting addicted to painkillers after an operation and not being able to quit.

The opioid epidemic we currently have is not like crack epidemic in the 80's. It's not just affecting the poor. It transcends classes and income levels. I mean, it tends to destroy the finances of those who get caught up in it, but people start out all across the class/income spectrum.

the continued hook and reliance on off the shelf , or mass prescribed painkillers directly indicates a lack of post-op care , which is expensive to implement thoroughly. That ties in to being about money , or the lack of money being budgeted by the gov. (for one reason or another)


Money has never been the root cause. Addiction and mental illness are the root causes of most homelessness.
You can give a drug addict all the money in the world and you'd just have a druggie who has money for a minute. What problem/issue would that solve?
I really do think the mentally ill in this country get a raw deal though. We closed way too many mental health facitilies in the 80's.

Being an addict is a choice. Being homeless because you're an addict is not any less of a choice.
Seriously, if the threat of being homeless or actually being homeless didn't kick somebody into sobriety, I couldn't imagine what it would take.

Not sure why we see so many excuses being made for people who make shitty decision upon shitty decision. If you can magically find money for drugs and/or booze then you can find money for clothes and a shower and even a bus ticket if need be. AA/NA meetings are free.
By the way....one of the things that hurts people who really did just get hit with a string of bad luck and need work to get on track.....a high minimum wage.

give money to a drug rehab + job training + job placement + welfare institution and see these addiction problems disappear. These cost magnitudes more $ than just giving cash to a drug user.

Then the amount of money to implement a comprehensive overhaul of the medical industry to eliminate bad players like those behind oxy ( they knew it was addictive) , and a decades long ( at least a couple of generations) overhaul of the primary goals cherished of being in the medical industry. ( the main goal now is to get rich enough to pay off student debts and get rich. )

which ties in to what i said earlier. It's all about the $
 
You got to be fucking kidding.

Let's start a little earlier.

Who didn't see the writing on the wall?

Who decided not to finish high school?

Who didn't see the end coming and retrain before they lost all income?

Who got their ass so far in a crack that they lost everything and was surprised when it happened?

Who doesn't know where to find the Public Library, that has computers, printers, (by the way, the only resume I print is my own, I email it to companies and post it on monster, I don't pass out a hard copy like a flier), email addresses work just fine for receiving job offers, and if you have a problem with phones, clothes, etc, TELL THEM.

And there isn't a homeless person in the united states that can't scare up enough for a haircut and a shave. If that were the case they'd be dead in days from starvation.

Now the hard part, yes poverty is hard. Yes some people were barely treading water and finally, the water just got too deep. But don't make stupid excuses for them or set foolish barriers and false hurdles. The homeless in this country are homeless for a very few reasons;

#1 Very bad life choices

#2 Failure to adapt

#3 It's not that hard, just give up, give in, stop trying and let it roll on. Get a bottle when you can, a handout, a needle, whatever your thing is. Then you don't have to do any of those difficult things people expect of you.

#4 Because they hate themselves, are punishing themselves, self pity, self loathing, etc.

#5 The one that should draw real pity and deserve real help, the mentally ill who have been turned out by those who no longer want to care for them.

My wife helps this old Korean woman, she was married to a G.I. back in the day. Korean women back then often didn't finish high school, their families couldn't afford it, so this old gal is completely illiterate, not just English, Korean too. So her husband died, she get's Social Security, lives in low income housing, used to work as a bagger for tips at the commissary on base, but not much anymore, she's like 80, it's too hard for her now. This woman is completely dependent on others for everything.

So by know you should be wondering where I am going with this?

If an 80+ year old, illiterate with no skillz, no capacity to read, etc, has a roof, money to burn at the casino, etc. Then why are these people out on the streets again?


My opinion is, you should stop making excuses for these people and their bad choices in life. That, and you should accept that some people are there by choice.


that is why an empathetic government which cares for the population is important. If using your life story as an example of how to treat others whom are less fortunate, then we get the exact crisis we are facing now.
 
I'm sure someone has already touched on this but it's less of a homeless problem and more of a mental-health problem. The mentally ill are the red-headed stepchildren of society. Medical care is far more expensive than propping a sick person up with a sandwich and a blanket.

i have commented during those articles about those mass shootings which occurs quite often, that mental health is still very much a taboo in the US

the goal would be to have mental health to be on the health checkup list together with basic flu and biannual medicals.

Which i think will become even more important in the near future as artificial, goal-oriented conversations will be dominant . ( who talks about fears and hope , and all those other ambiguous feelings , these days? Company psychs are m.i.a , private psychs rare and too exp, and religious surrogates are shunned )
 
give money to a drug rehab + job training + job placement + welfare institution and see these addiction problems disappear. These cost magnitudes more $ than just giving cash to a drug user.
Sure. Addiction would just dissappear if only we spent more money!
The billions upon billions we spend annually obviously isn't doing the trick, so we should spend more and somehow..... people who make shitty decisions and mentally ill people will no longer exist.

You're daft.
 
I do appreciate the debate here, and that you're not resorting to name calling and simply trying to have a rational argument. Thanks for the civility, tetris42!

Some of the services you listed (such as police), I'm fine with being taxed for. My moral argument for that is the following: our society should run on the premise that all people obey the same rules, and abide by the same laws, and we need someone to enforce and protect those laws or society itself will not function as we wish it would. Similarly, the military essentially protects our constitution and preserves our ability for capitalism to thrive. So taxation for police and military seems to be within the reasonable limits of what government should be doing.

Things like fire services and roads are more debatable. Imagine for a moment that we did NOT use taxes to pay for fire houses and roads. Imagine also that we stopped vilifying the rich (just bear with me here), and instead we celebrated their success and also the prosperity that they often bring to our communities. In this newly-imagined world, could we simply "ask" the rich to build us a firehall? (I say "ask" because today we don't ask--we force). Might the rich say "yes"? Wouldn't the rich want fire protection for their homes anyway? Wouldn't they want to have the fire hall named after them as a way to honor their contribution, and might that be a nice carrot to dangle to get them to voluntarily help us all out? Such an idea is almost unthinkable today because we're almost in a state of war with the rich, but in a society where our culture appreciates and exhalts success and productivity, I suspect that the rich folks around us might be much more willing to lend a hand.

You might say "but what if the rich person says no?" Well, the answer to that is simple--then the rest of the community will need to build that firehall, and maybe those firemen don't go to the rich people's house when it's on fire. I really think this would be a rarity, because the rich want roads and fire protection just as much as the rest of us do. Think about it--rich people drive ~70% of our GDP/production. You think they won't voluntarily pay for roads? I honestly think that if we stopped gouging these people with forced taxation and actually venerated their success, we would end up with voluntary roads and fire halls and all kinds of stuff, and at the same time we wouldn't be committing forced theft on our fellow citizens. You may think this is Utopian, but I do not--many of the railroads laid across this country were built by rich people who needed to transport goods (because they are productive people who require mechanisms that allow that productivity to happen) , and there's no reason to think that this couldn't work in modern times.
The idea with those being tax funded is the more essential something is, the less you want to leave it to chance. Essential services in rich neighborhoods tend to be very well funded and do well and would probably continue doing well without government intervention, since the rich have a vested interest in them. Meanwhile services in poor neighborhoods with underfunded government are so lacking they reflect conditions in 3rd world countries. I get your logic, but the bottom line is this tends not to work universally, and if anything furthers the divide between the wealthy and the poor. How many millionaires do you see living next door to the poor after all?

I mostly agree with you. I think the reason people are going poor and hungry in a country with so much is precisely because our system and culture vilify rich/successful/productive people. The lack of taxing the rich isn't the problem--I think it's the exact opposite. We've been heavily taxing success for a while now, and that only leads to one thing: a climate where successful people no longer feel a moral or civic duty to help others. Why would they want to help the poor? There is a knife labelled "poor" in their backs at all times. They are vilified and reviled by everyone--they are slammed as the source of all evil, even though nearly everything--from the asphalt mixtures we drive on, to the injection-molded light switch covers in every building, to the very computers we're typing on right now--were envisioned and risked and created by these people.
I think you're cherry picking what you're looking at. Our country celebrates wealth tremendously. Athletes, actors, musicians that are millionaires are by and large looked up to. Our current president is a billionaire and has the richest cabinet in history. His opposition was worth tens of millions of dollars. The majority of our Congress is composed of millionaires. The richest people in the country frequently making magazine coverages, and most of our media is owned by billionaires. If you look at how our country is run, it is by the rich, for the rich. Again, most of the attacks on tax persecution are trying to undo what occurred after the Great Depression. As for the reason we have so many poor and hungry, I would argue it's due to large systemic problems, no one real cause. A good starting point is to compare the poor in our country to other developed nations with a better track record and see what they're doing differently.

As for wealth being necessary for innovation, sometimes, sometimes not. A lot of inventions tend to emerge simultaneously as people can devote their time to it (like the telephone for example). There are loads of counter examples where private investment is not what led to breakthroughs, like the Polio vaccine, the internet, most medical research, it's a long list.

As for taxation leading to people not wanting to help one another, I think that's a tenuous connection that may not exist at all. If someone's tax rate goes up or down 3%, that's unlikely to affect if they volunteer at a soup kitchen.

I want the same thing you and many others do--comfort for all, freedom for all, prosperity for all. Not just the rich. I just think that the reason we don't have this--in part--is because we've declared war on the most productive members of society.
I'm actually not advocating for prosperity and comfort for all, a rough existence isn't a problem, so long as it's adequate. You mention freedom, I'm talking about freedom from hunger, homelessness, sickness, malnutrition. I'm talking about base needs being met. Anything past that I think is much more ambiguous. As for declaring war, Warren Buffet, one of the richest men in the world has stated how his class is winning.

I'm very much worried about another French Revolution. I believe that's exactly where we're headed, which is why I'm advocating for a reversal of direction. The high taxes will only lead to a repeat of the French Revolution--they will not stave one off. The reason is this: the masses will always ask for more, and thus produce less, and thus have less.
I'm not sure what you're basing this off of, worker productivity has been through the roof for decades. You seem to be arguing that there's a bunch of lazy people lying around that's dragging down everything. The majority of welfare recipients are working and have jobs. They're not earning enough to get by. So the masses have been producing MORE and have less. It could be that all the wealth of the rich is not enough to solve our problems, however, if that's the case, a system with less intervention isn't any more sustainable, it's just a clock as to how many people are going to die. In that sense, you're essentially advocating for those with wealth deserve to live, and those without have survival of the fittest. Wealth and money in and of itself is a human invention. You get more into philosophical territory then as to determining who is most worthy of surviving. A person's wealth is NOT a correlation to how much they contribute to society however. If that were true, a hedge fund manager would be worth thousands of schoolteachers, police, cooks, construction workers, architects, etc.

This self-feeding loop will continue, with productive members of society being blamed more and more, and taxed more and more, until not even the 1% can carry our demands. Then, the revolution will happen--the people who produce nothing and take no personal responsibility for their own situation will realize that that the rich have nothing more to give, and they will slay their own golden gooses.
The people who truly produce nothing are a small minority and have almost no political influence. Again, the majority of welfare recipients are already working. The French Revolution didn't begin because people were asking for more and more. It began because people were starving at the same time the aristocracy was living the most lavish lifestyle available with a plethora of resources. So, yes, if a significant portion of the populace is starving, the rich are at risk due to mismanagement of our how our system is being run. I doubt lowering taxes would remedy that.

My ideology (if you want to call it that--I just think of it as logical reasoning) is not some thing that "works in a vacuum". It's the foundation for how this country rapidly became the alpha society of planet Earth. It's already proven to work, and little by little we are deviating from our own constitution, our own pedigree of freedom and adherence to the idea that production and success are the highest values of society, and we're slowly sliding into a place where we'll fail. The ideas I'm spouting here are not my own, nor are they new--they're just "business as usual" in the United States for anyone living here in the late 1700s, 1800s, and much of the 1900s, when the country bristled with success.
We also had slavery, the slaughter of Native Americans and widescale theft of their land, multiple wars, an agrarian society for much of that time, and the ramp up to the largest resource extraction in the history of the world. I'd say it's very naive to just chalk that up to belief in success and productivity. You're right though, if you want to break laws, dominate and kill others in a methodical fashion, and engage in conquest in general, the sky's the limit for what you can accomplish.

But fine, if you want to go with logical reasoning, what's your answer to a situation where there are more people who need work than there are jobs available, and there's not enough charity to make up the difference? With automation, this is likely to become a reality. What we're seeing here are just pre tremors.
 
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I wasn't aware people working full time was considered "contributing nothing." You're making it sound like they're all sitting at home watching TV. The majority of poor are working. The fact that they don't earn enough to qualify to pay federal taxes I see as a much larger systemic problem. I somehow don't see calling people who area already working as lazy anot not contributing as the solution.

Quit with the stupid sympathy card and your bleeding heart.

I didn't make it sound like they're sitting at home, I said they are contributing nothing to the pool of tax dollars that run our country. That is a fact. Quit trying to misconstrue it as if I said anything otherwise.
 
Quit with the stupid sympathy card and your bleeding heart.

I didn't make it sound like they're sitting at home, I said they are contributing nothing to the pool of tax dollars that run our country. That is a fact. Quit trying to misconstrue it as if I said anything otherwise.
Cyraxx said:
If you're constantly told that you can't do anything, what do you think the result will be? This is why we continue to have ignorant lazy people because they are constantly told misinformation such as the rich need to pay more in taxes. That couldn't be further from the truth when the bottom 40% literally pay nothing (and the bottom actually take from the pot instead of contributing to it). When 40% of the country is contributing nothing but telling others that are above them that they need to contribute more - what do you think the end result is? More people joining the bottom obviously.
I color-coded it to show you the matching statements. You say misconstrue, I say your wording was pretty broad, especially when there are plenty in this thread who DO believe that percentage of the country contributes nothing. I mean who would ever think you're talking about people sitting at home when you call people lazy and ignorant? Excuse me all to hell.

However, you did say they pay literally nothing in taxes though, which is incorrect, they just don't pay federal income tax. Even To say they contribute nothing in federal taxes is misleading, since if they're employed, their employer stays in business due to them and they DO pay federal taxes, so they still contribute, just indirectly. Bottom line is if you're working, you're contributing.
 
Sure. Addiction would just dissappear if only we spent more money!
The billions upon billions we spend annually obviously isn't doing the trick, so we should spend more and somehow..... people who make shitty decisions and mentally ill people will no longer exist.

You're daft.

well, your idea is just to ignore them and guilt-trip them . Great answer for a solution

how does properly funding "drug rehab + job training + job placement + welfare institution" not help?

sure it cost hell lot more for the rich in taxes than them just staying and walling themselves off from the general population and saying out-of-sight equals not-my-problem ( like exactly what they do now. Some even as egregious as buying houses around them for ahem, privacy ) . America is damn messed up because of this mentality.
 
that is why an empathetic government which cares for the population is important. If using your life story as an example of how to treat others whom are less fortunate, then we get the exact crisis we are facing now.


I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.

I think you are saying on the one hand that our government should be empathetic, yet on the other hand, that because the government is looking out for this woman who has done pretty much nothing to look out for herself, we face an unnamed crisis which could be a homelessness crisis.


More importantly, our government does not need to take care of people who won't help take care of themselves. They have to be doing something concrete in order to reach a point where they are self sufficient again. Yes, there should be exceptions. At some point it might be too much to ask an eighty year old woman to go get her GED. I think realistically it's not going to happen, her ignorance has been sustained so long, that she is functionally handicapped.


But in short, my little story about this woman was meant to highlight how just social security and low income housing alone are enough to allow this woman to have a roof, food, and money to gamble. This is how effective Social Security and other government assistance can be. She's been living like this at least 20 years now. So to me, this means that people living on the streets either do not qualify for assistance, don't want assistance and are on the streets by choice, or are otherwise incapable of taking care of themselves and have been turned out to fend for themselves, perhaps qualifying for assistance and no one is helping them get it.

And by the way, I absolutely believe that when you say " government which cares for the population" that this can't just be part of the population. And I think the way the government needs to do this is not through the assistance programs as they have been implemented in the past.

In fact, I think that you greatly misunderstand how I feel on this issue and the role the Federal Government should be taking. Instead of throwing money at these people the government should be supporting and promoting the "social institutions" of Churches, Community organizations the support the needy, etc. The government should promote family. That woman has a daughter, the daughter helps some, not much. So I doubt we agree on this issue, but you haven't had a chance to say much so I'll leave it there. We don't have to agree so.
 
well, your idea is just to ignore them and guilt-trip them . Great answer for a solution

how does properly funding "drug rehab + job training + job placement + welfare institution" not help?

sure it cost hell lot more for the rich in taxes than them just staying and walling themselves off from the general population and saying out-of-sight equals not-my-problem ( like exactly what they do now. Some even as egregious as buying houses around them for ahem, privacy ) . America is damn messed up because of this mentality.


Are we going to accept the idea that we got here where we are today, from decades of bad thinking regarding this issue?

We are here where we are today because our people have abandoned long standing social principles in the pursuit of what they think is freedom. We are here because we have beaten our social organizations, the ones that both promote living a "good life" and offer assistance to those who need it, into a corner where they have little impact on our world. We've done this because we want to live our lives any way we want and we want the rest of the world to accept whatever it is we do, and when it fucks us up and we are so messed up we can't keep it together anymore, then we want everyone else to help care for us.

We have substance abuse problems, STDs, mental problems, employment problems, and none of this is because we insist that we are just living our lives the way we want, we aren't hurting anyone else, and it's not our fault, and now the Federal Government needs to take care of us.

Parents can't be parents, Churches are all bad, the list goes on. Don't let anyone tell you how to live your life, doesn't matter if they can all see the train wreck coming, stay out of it, let them go on the way they want. And don't cry when the tax man comes to take your money in order to help them out, you'll never need that extra savings to help out a Sister or a Mother who doesn't speak English and was never seriously encouraged to by a Country who accepted her without insisting that she at least reach a level of basic literacy in the native language. We'll just print everything in thirty different languages instead, never mind that the same person can't read their native language either.
 
Having empathy does not require people to have their pockets picked even more for something that does not address the core issues.
Basing taxation and/or legislation on feelings is idiotic and irrational.


Ursula K. Leguin said it best..
“We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. So did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings. Resistance and change often begin in art, and very often in our art, the art of words.”
 
Ursula K. Leguin said it best..
“We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. So did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings. Resistance and change often begin in art, and very often in our art, the art of words.
Yup. Great idea. Let's get rid of the number one reason that hundreds of millions across the globe have been lifted out of abject poverty because.....uh....REASONS!
https://www.forbes.com/2009/11/03/c...ion-forbes-opinions-markets.html#23a49d897f32
 
Ursula K. Leguin said it best..
“We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. So did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings. Resistance and change often begin in art, and very often in our art, the art of words.”
epicfacepalm.gif
 
You got to be fucking kidding.

Let's start a little earlier.

Who didn't see the writing on the wall?

Who decided not to finish high school?

Who didn't see the end coming and retrain before they lost all income?

Who got their ass so far in a crack that they lost everything and was surprised when it happened?

Who doesn't know where to find the Public Library, that has computers, printers, (by the way, the only resume I print is my own, I email it to companies and post it on monster, I don't pass out a hard copy like a flier), email addresses work just fine for receiving job offers, and if you have a problem with phones, clothes, etc, TELL THEM.

And there isn't a homeless person in the united states that can't scare up enough for a haircut and a shave. If that were the case they'd be dead in days from starvation.

Now the hard part, yes poverty is hard. Yes some people were barely treading water and finally, the water just got too deep. But don't make stupid excuses for them or set foolish barriers and false hurdles. The homeless in this country are homeless for a very few reasons;

#1 Very bad life choices

#2 Failure to adapt

#3 It's not that hard, just give up, give in, stop trying and let it roll on. Get a bottle when you can, a handout, a needle, whatever your thing is. Then you don't have to do any of those difficult things people expect of you.

#4 Because they hate themselves, are punishing themselves, self pity, self loathing, etc.

#5 The one that should draw real pity and deserve real help, the mentally ill who have been turned out by those who no longer want to care for them.

My wife helps this old Korean woman, she was married to a G.I. back in the day. Korean women back then often didn't finish high school, their families couldn't afford it, so this old gal is completely illiterate, not just English, Korean too. So her husband died, she get's Social Security, lives in low income housing, used to work as a bagger for tips at the commissary on base, but not much anymore, she's like 80, it's too hard for her now. This woman is completely dependent on others for everything.

So by know you should be wondering where I am going with this?

If an 80+ year old, illiterate with no skillz, no capacity to read, etc, has a roof, money to burn at the casino, etc. Then why are these people out on the streets again?


My opinion is, you should stop making excuses for these people and their bad choices in life. That, and you should accept that some people are there by choice.

I'm not sure I understand this point of view … "you made bad choices so too bad live with it". Isn't this defeatist? Why not at least try to help people instead of kicking them while they are down. We can only stand to benefit by helping others help themselves. If we do nothing … nothing changes, in fact things will likely just continue to become worse.
 
Ursula K. Leguin said it best..
“We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. So did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings. Resistance and change often begin in art, and very often in our art, the art of words.”

Abraham Lincoln said it best...

"WE NEED TO HAVE LESS PEOPLE SHITTING ON THE STREETS OF SAN FRANSISCO, THIS CAN BE ACHIEVED THROUGH COMMUNISM. IF THEY DON'T EAT, THEY CANT SHIT."
 
Abraham Lincoln said it best...

"WE NEED TO HAVE LESS PEOPLE SHITTING ON THE STREETS OF SAN FRANSISCO, THIS CAN BE ACHIEVED THROUGH COMMUNISM. IF THEY DON'T EAT, THEY CANT SHIT."

Yeah, no. Try quoting a real source.
 
Yeah, no. Try quoting a real source.

Albert Einstein said it best in the book he wrote: the Bible..

"Socialism is no more or no less than Communism. And when thou mentions Socialism thou shall not mention Capitalism unless excepting that it is far better and not no more or no less than Communism; Amen."
 
In a nutshell, no... no family that's bringing in nearly $120k/year is homeless in SF unless they choose to be homeless. After taxes you're take home is still $90k/year, that leaves $7500 a month for ALL your expenses, and while yeah it's expensive in SF it ain't that fucking expensive, sure day care for 2 kids could chomp half of that amount away, or not depending upon how you run with it.

117K - about 28K @24% federal - about 9060 state @10.23% & 2.6K - 8950 FICA @7.65% = 70990/year, or 5916/month. That's not that much in SF, frankly, for a family of four. Think about rent/mortgage, insurance, vehicle costs, utilities, clothing, medical, day care, and (god forbid) maybe having some fun or investing for the future... Anywhere else... sure. Live like a king.
 
I'm not sure I understand this point of view … "you made bad choices so too bad live with it". Isn't this defeatist? Why not at least try to help people instead of kicking them while they are down. We can only stand to benefit by helping others help themselves. If we do nothing … nothing changes, in fact things will likely just continue to become worse.


I didn't say that. I didn't say "live with it".

I said, "stop making excuses for them ..." That's what I meant and it's very much what I said.

The Federal government can best help the people that need help by helping our social institutions who already want to help. Help the churches, help the YMCA's, Boy's Clubs, Girl Scouts, etc. Leave the tax dollars in people's pockets so they can help the niece who is having a hard time. Empower communities to take care of their own, don't federalize huge programs that have to be managed by an entire government department of waste and mismanagement. How many tens of years of this thinking do we have to experience to see that it fails, always.
 
117K - about 28K @24% federal - about 9060 state @10.23% & 2.6K - 8950 FICA @7.65% = 70990/year, or 5916/month. That's not that much in SF, frankly, for a family of four. Think about rent/mortgage, insurance, vehicle costs, utilities, clothing, medical, day care, and (god forbid) maybe having some fun or investing for the future... Anywhere else... sure. Live like a king.


No one is chained to light posts. They can move if it's completely unrealistic to stay in SF. Those people made their own beds. If they can't afford it than what can you say? If the city starts loosing it's professional base because costs of living are too high then what's to be done? Is that $117K single or joint income? Most professionals would draw that much, give or take, as individual income, many would make more. The rest, well, they need to figure something out.
 
well considering white Americans are Illegal immigrants, why are you complaining?

Hows that? My ancestors came here on the Mayflower & through a port of entry where they were processed through the legal system & given citizenship. Your comment has no merit.
 
Hows that? My ancestors came here on the Mayflower & through a port of entry where they were processed through the legal system & given citizenship. Your comment has no merit.

only Native Americans belong in America, return to whatever dump you came from.
 
No one is chained to light posts. They can move if it's completely unrealistic to stay in SF. Those people made their own beds. If they can't afford it than what can you say? If the city starts loosing it's professional base because costs of living are too high then what's to be done? Is that $117K single or joint income? Most professionals would draw that much, give or take, as individual income, many would make more. The rest, well, they need to figure something out.

People have to go where jobs and money are. You can't expect to move in rural Nebraska and find a tech job - or two, if both parents want/need to work. Where do you suggest they go?
 
I didn't say that. I didn't say "live with it".

I said, "stop making excuses for them ..." That's what I meant and it's very much what I said.

The Federal government can best help the people that need help by helping our social institutions who already want to help. Help the churches, help the YMCA's, Boy's Clubs, Girl Scouts, etc. Leave the tax dollars in people's pockets so they can help the niece who is having a hard time. Empower communities to take care of their own, don't federalize huge programs that have to be managed by an entire government department of waste and mismanagement. How many tens of years of this thinking do we have to experience to see that it fails, always.

I'm opposed to forcing people to rely on (and therefore beholden to) religious institutions. Those institutions also have shown that even if they "work" they are manipulative and don't change things long-term, and still suffer from waste and fraud and mismanagement. At least with the government, we can have much easier oversite, are subject to FOIA, etc. If you believe that private industry (especially for-profit sectors) has your best interests at the forefront of their minds more than the government does, you're being willfully ignorant.

I don't think people not getting paid enough to live is them making up excuses. That's indentured servitude, and it's patently absurd.
 
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