Amazon Raises Minimum Wage to $15 for All US Employees

Here we are squabbling about putting a few extra bucks in the pockets of the people who spend their entire shift on foot.

In any case, I agree that minimum wage jobs aren't meant for long term careers. But at the same time, I think if you work full time you should have a "livable" income. By livable, I mean something where you can reasonably afford to provide for yourself without depending on your parents, a spouse, or the government.

I'd like to think that everyone can become skilled in something more valuable, but my experience tells me otherwise. The problem with giving some people more money, is more irresponsibility. But I know that for some, its not a matter of refusing to improve - its just a mental disability of some kind or burned out from drugs. I'm torn on the whole thing really.
negative, entry level just like working at the local supermarket as a bag boy or at the local McD's outside of management are meant to train one to interact with people...flipping burgers is not worth $15 an hour, it is a motivator for you to better your self. and yes, I flipped burgers while I was in school and managed to survive.
 
Yup poor folks have to SPEND their money. Rich folks get the pleasure of HIDING theirs.
So stop being poor.
It's really not all that hard.
Most permanently poor people in the US are poor due to bad decions they made.Yeah, there are repurcussions to shitty decision making.

I'm tired of seeing people with smartphones, cable TV, high-speed internet, multiple TV's, and a car complain about being poor.
Ditch the unnecessary garbage, get a bike or a bus pass, clip coupons, get secondhand clothes, work hard, improve yourself and do better!

Don't pick my pocket just because you failed at life.
 
So what happens to those that have gone past minimum wage and taken years to get there. Shouldn't they get the increase to match the difference minimum wage got? Seems we get forgotten.
 
So what happens to those that have gone past minimum wage and taken years to get there. Shouldn't they get the increase to match the difference minimum wage got? Seems we get forgotten.
161443_5C7CA0A4-5DA8-4F58-8852-1DF89ABFC363.jpg


looks like a negative from here.
 
flipping burgers is not worth $15 an hour
Says who? You?

Who said you get to set wages and why?

Bear in mind other countries have had high min. wages not far off $15/hr for years without issue in your reply.

it is a motivator for you to better your self
This is BS.

No one who really works for a living does so for "motivation". They do it to pay bills and eat.

And that usually means working jobs they have to take and not the job they want or the wage they really need to live/retire well.

Jobs also don't magically get created in the economy based on demand or worker motivation either BTW.

and yes, I flipped burgers while I was in school and managed to survive.
So what?

What in the world makes you think your life experiences are the end all be all standard by which all should be judged?

Especially when we've got good data on how most of the rest of the population is doing in terms of wealth, wages, and cost of living? Why in the world would you think your personal experiences out weight that data?? That is fundamentally facetious BS man.

So what happens to those that have gone past minimum wage and taken years to get there. Shouldn't they get the increase to match the difference minimum wage got? Seems we get forgotten.
No, their wages will still probably go up over time. It'll just take time is all. And its not like they're made to suffer really here either since their income isn't changing.

Effectively crying about that sort of thing is all about how others are no longer doing so poorly that you can't look down on them as much anymore. So people who are "concerned" about that sort of thing should be generally ignored anyways.

So stop being poor It's really not all that hard.
Hahahaa if it was easy to be rich in this country almost everyone would be wealthy instead of 1 paycheque away from losing everything.

When most of the working population is that close to complete destitution, especially when they weren't within living memory (ie. post WWII-pre 2000's) then you saying some crap about "just stop being poor" is absurd BS that shows you're clueless about reality in general.

Most permanently poor people in the US are poor due to bad decions they made.
Wealth inequality is skyrocketing to levels not seen since before the Great Depression, home ownership is plummeting while younger generations are forced to live with their parents well into their late 20's or 30's, while blue collar jobs are being outsourced or eliminated wholesale but nah its all the workers' fault.

Sure bud. Keep telling yourself some nonsense about economic conditions not mattering at all.

I'm tired of seeing people with smartphones, cable TV, high-speed internet, multiple TV's, and a car complain about being poor.
Dude nearly all of that stuff is cheap these days. The exception is the car but car sales aren't what they used to be for a reason AND are heavily funded via debt and people keep their cars for longer than they used to as well.

Ditch the unnecessary garbage, get a bike or a bus pass, clip coupons, get secondhand clothes, work hard, improve yourself and do better!
"Unecessary garbage" like a phone and a internet connection are actually pretty much necessary and public transport is a joke almost everywhere in the US. Biking is also a sick joke since often times you work far from where you live since the jobs tend to be in the city and you're often forced to live where its cheap to rent or in Mom n' Pop's house in the suburbs. Its not at all practical to expect people to bike 2hr+ daily to and from work. Coupons are usually worthless and even many of the secondhand clothes stores aren't as cheap as they used to be since they now often export used clothes overseas.

And work hard?! Virtually all GDP growth went to the rich over the last 10yr or so dude. Working hard just means you're treading water financially in that sort of economic environment.

Don't pick my pocket just because you failed at life.
Increased wages aren't pocket picking dude. The amount they'll effect prices are minimal vs the effects of inflation over just the past decade.

The price went up because the value of money went down. The value of money went down because the federal reserve printed well over $10 trillion dollars in the last decade.
Sure but you do realize you're effectively giving a reason to raise wages here right?

After all, if employers don't raise wages to offset the effect of inflation they're effectively just stealing money from their workers.
 
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mesyn191

How are economies in those other countries that have been working with high minimum wages (and other socialist policies) for years? ;)

 
mesyn191
How are economies in those other countries that have been working with high minimum wages (and other socialist policies) for years?
Most were pretty decent until the housing bubble blew up and their nations took on the banks bad debt which blew out their balance sheets. Same thing happened over here in the US BTW although the wars were blowing our cash on also added to that load quite a bit too. Some had lower debt loads than the US did at the time though.

National debt has nothing to do with high min. wages since its not financed by their govt. BTW.

High min. wages also aren't Socialist policies either.
 
Says who? You?

Who said you get to set wages and why?

Bear in mind other countries have had high min. wages not far off $15/hr for years without issue in your reply.


This is BS.

No one who really works for a living does so for "motivation". They do it to pay bills and eat.

And that usually means working jobs they have to take and not the job they want or the wage they really need to live/retire well.

Jobs also don't magically get created in the economy based on demand or worker motivation either BTW.


So what?

What in the world makes you think your life experiences are the end all be all standard by which all should be judged?

Especially when we've got good data on how most of the rest of the population is doing in terms of wealth, wages, and cost of living? Why in the world would you think your personal experiences out weight that data?? That is fundamentally facetious BS man.


No, their wages will still probably go up over time. It'll just take time is all. And its not like they're made to suffer really here either since their income isn't changing.

Effectively crying about that sort of thing is all about how others are no longer doing so poorly that you can't look down on them as much anymore. So people who are "concerned" about that sort of thing should be generally ignored anyways.


Hahahaa if it was easy to be rich in this country almost everyone would be wealthy instead of 1 paycheque away from losing everything.

When most of the working population is that close to complete destitution, especially when they weren't within living memory (ie. post WWII-pre 2000's) then you saying some crap about "just stop being poor" is absurd BS that shows you're clueless about reality in general.


Wealth inequality is skyrocketing to levels not seen since before the Great Depression, home ownership is plummeting while younger generations are forced to live with their parents well into their late 20's or 30's, while blue collar jobs are being outsourced or eliminated wholesale but nah its all the workers' fault.

Sure bud. Keep telling yourself some nonsense about economic conditions not mattering at all.


Dude nearly all of that stuff is cheap these days. The exception is the car but car sales aren't what they used to be for a reason AND are heavily funded via debt and people keep their cars for longer than they used to as well.


"Unecessary garbage" like a phone and a internet connection are actually pretty much necessary and public transport is a joke almost everywhere in the US. Biking is also a sick joke since often times you work far from where you live since the jobs tend to be in the city and you're often forced to live where its cheap to rent or in Mom n' Pop's house in the suburbs. Its not at all practical to expect people to bike 2hr+ daily to and from work. Coupons are usually worthless and even many of the secondhand clothes stores aren't as cheap as they used to be since they now often export used clothes overseas.

And work hard?! Virtually all GDP growth went to the rich over the last 10yr or so dude. Working hard just means you're treading water financially in that sort of economic environment.


Increased wages aren't pocket picking dude. The amount they'll effect prices are minimal vs the effects of inflation over just the past decade.


Sure but you do realize you're effectively giving a reason to raise wages here right?

After all, if employers don't raise wages to offset the effect of inflation they're effectively just stealing money from their workers.


if you think flipping burgers at mc d's is career worthy, you have issues.
if you think that one should not have to work hard to get what they want, you got issues

self entitlement much? because that is exactly what it sounds like from here
 
Ironically this ended up being a pay cut for a bunch of workers who previously were getting minimum wage cash compensation but also receiving RSU's. Now they only get the cash comp so in fact they are getting paid LESS after this "raise".
 
if you think flipping burgers at mc d's is career worthy, you have issues.
When did I say it should be a career?

What I care about is a)people getting paid properly for their work and the b)standard of living.

The whole "careers" thing is your strawman to beat on and one that I don't care about nor do I think is relevant.
if you think that one should not have to work hard to get what they want, you got issues
You think fast food jobs are easy?? They're generally regarded as crappy for a reason dude.

self entitlement much? because that is exactly what it sounds like from here
People getting paid properly for their work isn't entitlement.

You like it when employers rob their employees by not doing CoL adjustments, like they did for decades since the late 70's, or what?

I'd also point out if you go back to the 70's and post WWII period your parents/grandparents effectively got paid as much or MORE than $15/hr as a "min. wage" when you adjust wages for inflation for back then vs now.
 
if you think flipping burgers at mc d's is career worthy, you have issues.
if you think that one should not have to work hard to get what they want, you got issues

self entitlement much? because that is exactly what it sounds like from here
There are many disabled people who have severe limitations in what they can do. Some people CAN'T do more. Would you rather have those people working & producing something or just sitting at home?
 
There are many disabled people who have severe limitations in what they can do. Some people CAN'T do more. Would you rather have those people working & producing something or just sitting at home?
So we should raise the minimum wage for everyone because a small minority of workers have disabilities that prevent them from doing anything other than minimum wage jobs that never provide raises?
Or are you saying that people with disabilities won't work for less than $15.00 an hour?

Seems like a silly argument either way.
EDIT:
I'm sure that line of "thinking" plays well with a certain crowd.
...I can see it now...
"It's all for the disabled! If you're against a $15/hr minimum wage you hate disabled people!"
"F'n scumbags are racist against disabled...err...handicapable...err...let's Google the approved terminology!"
 
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So stop being poor.
It's really not all that hard.
Most permanently poor people in the US are poor due to bad decions they made.Yeah, there are repurcussions to shitty decision making.

I'm tired of seeing people with smartphones, cable TV, high-speed internet, multiple TV's, and a car complain about being poor.
Ditch the unnecessary garbage, get a bike or a bus pass, clip coupons, get secondhand clothes, work hard, improve yourself and do better!

Don't pick my pocket just because you failed at life.

That was fucking hilarious! Do you do stand up comedy on Saturday to make that extra cash?
 
negative, entry level just like working at the local supermarket as a bag boy or at the local McD's outside of management are meant to train one to interact with people...flipping burgers is not worth $15 an hour, it is a motivator for you to better your self. and yes, I flipped burgers while I was in school and managed to survive.

So you've never seen 30-40-50-60 year old's working at fast food joints or bagging groceries?

My kids (when they were teens) could not get jobs at fast food joints because they did not speak spanish or hindi.

However, there were plenty of 30-60 year olds working there...

Employers know that minimum wage teens DGAF because they live w/ mom (not dad?).

They also know they can have those 30-60 years olds under their thumb like a desperate slave.

So, yeah... there's that...

Times have changed YeuEmMaiMai - this is not your teenage country anymore.
 
When did I say it should be a career?

What I care about is a)people getting paid properly for their work and the b)standard of living.

The whole "careers" thing is your strawman to beat on and one that I don't care about nor do I think is relevant.

You think fast food jobs are easy?? They're generally regarded as crappy for a reason dude.


People getting paid properly for their work isn't entitlement.

You like it when employers rob their employees by not doing CoL adjustments, like they did for decades since the late 70's, or what?

I'd also point out if you go back to the 70's and post WWII period your parents/grandparents effectively got paid as much or MORE than $15/hr as a "min. wage" when you adjust wages for inflation for back then vs now.


I worked in fast food when I was in high school and college and you better well believe that I did the best job I could and when I got hired on at my first career job, those were my references along with my degree... so yeah they are not hard jobs to do at all... I have even gone back to do it as part time work... that is not a $15 an hour job...

So you've never seen 30-40-50-60 year old's working at fast food joints or bagging groceries?

My kids (when they were teens) could not get jobs at fast food joints because they did not speak spanish or hindi.

However, there were plenty of 30-60 year olds working there...

Employers know that minimum wage teens DGAF because they live w/ mom (not dad?).

They also know they can have those 30-60 years olds under their thumb like a desperate slave.

So, yeah... there's that...

Times have changed YeuEmMaiMai - this is not your teenage country anymore.

just because you don't want it to be does not mean it is not. Fast food work is training for real job interactions

Most older people work there to supplement their income or they failed at retirement planning...
 
I worked in fast food when I was in high school and college and you better well believe that I did the best job I could and when I got hired on at my first career job, those were my references along with my degree... so yeah they are not hard jobs to do at all... I have even gone back to do it as part time work... that is not a $15 an hour job...

I did the same but it was in 1984 and IIRC, I made $2.85 + tips as busboy or $3.25 as dishwasher / cook & two past employers gave me glowing reference letters when I asked for them... big whoop - my point = times have changed.

just because you don't want it to be does not mean it is not. Fast food work is training for real job interactions

Most older people work there to supplement their income or they failed at retirement planning...

No, this is an example of bad border protection / illegal immigrants & unenforced visa's.

"Fuck off American kid, you can't speak to my illegal immigrant staff in their native language - so fuck off again."

Finally - how can 30-40-50's be supplementing retirement income?

It is more likely to be adults on welfare supplementing THAT "income" but still failing to ever get OFF of welfare due to a low minimum wage and employers intentionally keeping their hours under 20 so they can never qualify for any corp / health benefits... and their schedule is constantly changing so carrying 2 jobs is a huge PITA (per my kids & all their friends).
 
So stop being poor.
It's really not all that hard.
Most permanently poor people in the US are poor due to bad decions they made.Yeah, there are repurcussions to shitty decision making.

I'm tired of seeing people with smartphones, cable TV, high-speed internet, multiple TV's, and a car complain about being poor.
Ditch the unnecessary garbage, get a bike or a bus pass, clip coupons, get secondhand clothes, work hard, improve yourself and do better!

Don't pick my pocket just because you failed at life.

That was fucking hilarious! Do you do stand up comedy on Saturday to make that extra cash?

If you have a point to make, make it. If not, bother somebody else.

OK, I can see that you have no sense of or understanding of humor, so I guess you are not doing stand up for the extra cash...

You volunteered to post here & read here & you can scroll past - if I am "bothering" you. :cry:

But since you asked for a specific point...

RE: Most permanently poor people in the US are poor due to bad decions they made.Yeah, there are repurcussions to shitty decision making.

I'm sure you will deny / twist / turn this into - it's your own fault - you should not have been born on a farm, your divorce is because you married the wrong woman - not that she changed & you are forced to pay child support & alimony due to YOUR decisions - not hers (because I should have been able to control my "partner" but I chose the wrong one - the one who changed as an independent human), or that drunk guy who totaled your truck & put you in the hospital and disabled you - that's YOUR (my) fault because you left your house that one day at that particular time - ad nauseum... It's all YOUR (my) fault.

My point is that you are myopic and your POV is that of the compassionless self-absorbed.
 
OK, I can see that you have no sense of or understanding of humor, so I guess you are not doing stand up for the extra cash...

You volunteered to post here & read here & you can scroll past - if I am "bothering" you. :cry:

But since you asked for a specific point...

RE: Most permanently poor people in the US are poor due to bad decions they made.Yeah, there are repurcussions to shitty decision making.

I'm sure you will deny / twist / turn this into - it's your own fault - you should not have been born on a farm, your divorce is because you married the wrong woman - not that she changed & you are forced to pay child support & alimony due to YOUR decisions - not hers (because I should have been able to control my "partner" but I chose the wrong one - the one who changed as an independent human), or that drunk guy who totaled your truck & put you in the hospital and disabled you - that's YOUR (my) fault because you left your house that one day at that particular time - ad nauseum... It's all YOUR (my) fault.

My point is that you are myopic and your POV is that of the compassionless self-absorbed.
Really? You're bringing the disabled into this? And born on a farm? Seriously?
And no, divorce is not a reason high on the list of why people are permanently poor. Having children outside of marriage is. Not graduating high school is. Not working is.

Bring a better argument and less insults next time.
 
I just "love" redistribution of wealth..

Wealth is currently being redistributed upwards and has been for years now. It's both funny and sad that you complain about redistribution going downwards and helping more lower income people but turn a blind eye when it goes straight up to the wealthy few.
 
You counter with a short term study of a single city? Where the prices of items imported to that city from the immediately surrounding areas aren’t raised because there was no minimum wage increase — And extrapolate that to a national level where the minimum wage will have significantly raised all Stateside manufactured goods???

Come on man...use your head.

Look at Appendix C, Table C1 in your document.

View attachment 108829




I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss.

View attachment 108828


Picking out that x percentage of products had a wage increase is far different than the AMOUNT of the increase. Don't try to pretend I'm an idiot. I did you the same service.
 
So what happens to those that have gone past minimum wage and taken years to get there. Shouldn't they get the increase to match the difference minimum wage got? Seems we get forgotten.
That's basically every workplace ever. If you're a regular dependable worker, that does the job well, there will come a time sooner or later when even interns will make the same money that you do, which you got to incrementally trough 10+ years of solid service to the company.
 
I was in Seattle for the weekend and saw a sign at Dick's (burger stand) that they were hiring @ $17/hr + benefits.
 
Really? You're bringing the disabled into this? And born on a farm? Seriously?
And no, divorce is not a reason high on the list of why people are permanently poor. Having children outside of marriage is. Not graduating high school is. Not working is.

Bring a better argument and less insults next time.

I knew you'd dismiss anything I said...

RE: disabled = as you said above IT's all YOUR FAULT - even if you got hit by a truck - everything is YOUR fault.

You'll say: Get a job you lazy cripple!

#2 cause of poverty = Health @ POVERTY-TOP THREE CAUSES | economy building

RE: farms

Poverty on America's farms has been an economic reality for most of the country's history.

It is improving, but it is STILL a reality... USDA ERS - Farm Poverty Lowest in U.S. History

You'll say: Stop being a farmer & get a job ya' lazy farmer!

RE: divorce is not a reason high on the list of why people are permanently poor. Having children outside of marriage is.

It is more about single parent households - and a huge number of those are are created as a result of divorce - both mom & dad become single parent households. Mom lives on 1/2 of the ex-husbands wages & the man live on less than 1/2 his wages.

BUTT - having children outside of marriage is another version of the single parent household.

Don’t deny the link between poverty and single parenthood - The Washington Post

RE: Bring a better argument and less insults next time.

You haven't made any argument, you just gave - like - your opinion man.

And if you choose to see adjectives as insults - I guess - if the shoe fits - it's an insult?
 
Wealth is currently being redistributed upwards and has been for years now. It's both funny and sad that you complain about redistribution going downwards and helping more lower income people but turn a blind eye when it goes straight up to the wealthy few.
How do you define "wealthy few"?
To be in the top 1% you only need to earn about 250k.
To be in the top 10% = about 90k
The roughly 140 people in the US who earned over 50 million in a single year likely sold a business, or cashed in a very nice retirement, manages a hedge fund, or is an actor. The people in that bracket are generally not in that bracket year after year. That applies to brackets on the low and high end though.
 
How do you define "wealthy few"?
Generally speaking wealthy people are those who make ~$120K/yr+ since that puts you in the top ~10% of all earners globally.

Now its also common for those people to not consider themselves wealthy at all but so what?

Its not what they think of themselves that determines them as wealthy but rather their economic freedom and capabilities vs everyone else that matters.

I worked in fast food
I don't care. I did to you know. You also shouldn't care about that either.

Why?

Because the fast food industry and economy of today is different than what you or I dealt with years ago.

Your personal history and experience is not indicative of what everyone else is going through now. Especially since we have solid information on how things are now for people in general who work those jobs for current min. wages vs current Cost of Living, school debt, etc. How hard is it really to understand this??

Fast food work is training for real job interactions
Hahahaha WTF??! There was nothing about working in fast food that prepared me at all for any other job. It was a crap tier job that I got because as a teenager that was about all I could get at the time. The only "skill" that I learned there that I still use anywhere is how to bust down boxes really quick and fold them up so they fit in a recycle bin neatly.

Most older people work there to supplement their income or they failed at retirement planning...
You do realize that almost everyone fails at retirement planning right?

Again: most have no or nearly savings and are 1 paycheque away from losing everything.

401K's have been shown to mostly be a scam to get people to give up their defined benefit pensions too BTW.
 
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That's basically every workplace ever. If you're a regular dependable worker, that does the job well, there will come a time sooner or later when even interns will make the same money that you do, which you got to incrementally trough 10+ years of solid service to the company.
And you see that being fair? Not at all.
 
SAY IT WITH ME!!!!

MINIMUM WAGE JOBS ARE NOT MEANT TO BE A CAREER! THEY ARE MEANT FOR ENTRY LEVEL POSITIONS.... such as those people still in high school and living with their parents.
Say it with me.

Minimum wage jobs are not meant to abuse the welfare system. If $15 is considered a high paying job then I would rethink your pay at your current job.

People that are on minimum wage sometimes do it on purpose so they can stay on welfare. Why?, you ask. Well, it is because you have to make a whole lot more to even break even if you are not on welfare.
Then raise the minimum wage even higher. Recent info shows that Amazon isn't exactly poor, and Jeff Bezos is now the richest man alive. He doens't need a second gold toilet, but the Amazon workers sure could use a toilet so they don't piss in bottles.

Raising the minimum wage does nothing in the long run, and only slightly helps the minimum wage workers for a short time until everything else adjusts for the increase in minimum wage.
Prices are going up regardless, so it makes sense to keep up. People owe more money than ever, including more than in 2008. You want a recession? Cause that's how you get a recession.
It also DESTROYS WEALTH as those who have money in the bank, invested, etc. suddenly have a lot less buying power than before as soon as the prices on everything go up in order to compensate for the hike in minimum wage.
Then tell the banks to stop raising interest rates and artificially causing inflation. People can't afford to buy a home let a lone a car cause the prices have done up to 2008 levels and beyond.
 
I knew you'd dismiss anything I said...

RE: disabled = as you said above IT's all YOUR FAULT - even if you got hit by a truck - everything is YOUR fault.
You'll say: Get a job you lazy cripple!
#2 cause of poverty = Health @ POVERTY-TOP THREE CAUSES | economy building
RE: farms
Poverty on America's farms has been an economic reality for most of the country's history.
It is improving, but it is STILL a reality... USDA ERS - Farm Poverty Lowest in U.S. History
You'll say: Stop being a farmer & get a job ya' lazy farmer!
RE: divorce is not a reason high on the list of why people are permanently poor. Having children outside of marriage is.
It is more about single parent households - and a huge number of those are are created as a result of divorce - both mom & dad become single parent households. Mom lives on 1/2 of the ex-husbands wages & the man live on less than 1/2 his wages.
BUTT - having children outside of marriage is another version of the single parent household.
Don’t deny the link between poverty and single parenthood - The Washington Post
RE: Bring a better argument and less insults next time.
You haven't made any argument, you just gave - like - your opinion man.

And if you choose to see adjectives as insults - I guess - if the shoe fits - it's an insult?
Your first link has no stats or anything meaningful to support it so it's just an opinion piece I won't bother addressing. I don't think that article was aimed at the US, it seemed to be discussing poverty on a global level anyway. Either way, it was a shit article.

Your second link is legit I guess. I didn't bring farms into this so not sure what point you're trying to make or refute by linking an article that states poverty is at an all time low for farmers. Farming households earn on average a fair bit more than the average non-farm household. (2015) 119k vs 79k so I am really unsure what you're thinking.

Divorce does not create two single-parent households in most cases. Only one parent can claim head of household using a particular child as a dependent because that child must reside with said parent for more than 50% of the year. That obviously exludes the possibility of both parents after a divorce claiming a single child. You would be correct if there was more than one child and one parent got custody of X number of children and the other got X number of children but I highly doubt that is a common occurence. Furthermore, when you brought divorce into this conversation you did so from the standpoint that paying alimony and child-support make people poor.
it's your own fault - you should not have been born on a farm, your divorce is because you married the wrong woman - not that she changed & you are forced to pay child support & alimony due to YOUR decisions - not hers (because I should have been able to control my "partner" but I chose the wrong one - the one who changed as an independent human)

My original point still stands.
Most who are permanently poor are so due to shitty decisions.
I detailed three shitty decisions that greatly contribute to being permanently poor in another post.
1. Not completing high school.
2. Not working.
3. Having kids out of marriage.

I did not blame disabled people for being disabled and it shows your intellectual dishonety to pretend otherwise.
I would never tell a person who is gainfully employed to stop being lazy and do not appreciate you trying to put words in my mouth.

You're really terrible at this. I'm done with you. Feel free to remain as ignorant as you wish.
 
So stop being poor.
It's really not all that hard.
Most permanently poor people in the US are poor due to bad decions they made.Yeah, there are repurcussions to shitty decision making.

I'm tired of seeing people with smartphones, cable TV, high-speed internet, multiple TV's, and a car complain about being poor.
Ditch the unnecessary garbage, get a bike or a bus pass, clip coupons, get secondhand clothes, work hard, improve yourself and do better!

Don't pick my pocket just because you failed at life.
giphy.gif


Simple version: some of what you're saying is absolutely true. It's also certainly not true of huge portions of the poor in America, yet you're applying it like it does. It's anti-analytical discussion in the making.

Very few people I've encountered who talk like you has experienced real poverty in their lives or ones they care about and reek of armchair analysis, not realizing how many factors come into play. Additionally, your crowd tends to reject the possibility of people who literally do everything right and still get crushed. I'm not going into the actual reasons and facts behind it, because it's overwhelmingly clear your mind is made up on this regardless of what anyone says.

Just keep up the "stop being poor, it's really not all that hard" rhetoric, you can't go wrong with that one.
 
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And you see that being fair? Not at all.
You believe the system is fair? Not at all. You can't expect fair treatment of employees in an economic system that rewards unfair treatment.
 
So we should raise the minimum wage for everyone because a small minority of workers have disabilities that prevent them from doing anything other than minimum wage jobs that never provide raises?
Or are you saying that people with disabilities won't work for less than $15.00 an hour?

Seems like a silly argument either way.
EDIT:
I'm sure that line of "thinking" plays well with a certain crowd.
...I can see it now...
"It's all for the disabled! If you're against a $15/hr minimum wage you hate disabled people!"
"F'n scumbags are racist against disabled...err...handicapable...err...let's Google the approved terminology!"
I'm just saying everyone should have a chance to earn a living that will support a basic lifestyle on a single job.

I pointed out one edge case. I'm sure there are more.
 
Your first link has no stats or anything meaningful to support it so it's just an opinion piece I won't bother addressing. I don't think that article was aimed at the US, it seemed to be discussing poverty on a global level anyway. Either way, it was a shit article.

Your second link is legit I guess. I didn't bring farms into this so not sure what point you're trying to make or refute by linking an article that states poverty is at an all time low for farmers. Farming households earn on average a fair bit more than the average non-farm household. (2015) 119k vs 79k so I am really unsure what you're thinking.

Divorce does not create two single-parent households in most cases. Only one parent can claim head of household using a particular child as a dependent because that child must reside with said parent for more than 50% of the year. That obviously exludes the possibility of both parents after a divorce claiming a single child. You would be correct if there was more than one child and one parent got custody of X number of children and the other got X number of children but I highly doubt that is a common occurence. Furthermore, when you brought divorce into this conversation you did so from the standpoint that paying alimony and child-support make people poor.

My original point still stands.
Most who are permanently poor are so due to shitty decisions.
I detailed three shitty decisions that greatly contribute to being permanently poor in another post.
1. Not completing high school.
2. Not working.
3. Having kids out of marriage.

I did not blame disabled people for being disabled and it shows your intellectual dishonety to pretend otherwise.
I would never tell a person who is gainfully employed to stop being lazy and do not appreciate you trying to put words in my mouth.

You're really terrible at this. I'm done with you. Feel free to remain as ignorant as you wish.
So let's say disabled (not just physically, but mentally) can only do certain jobs. Would you rather have companies (by law) forced to pay a certain (minimum) wage so those employees can maintain a very basic lifestyle, or would you rather have the companies pay a sub-standard wage and YOUR TAXES subsidize this person for life via social programs?
 
I'm just saying everyone should have a chance to earn a living that will support a basic lifestyle on a single job.

I pointed out one edge case. I'm sure there are more.

People do have a chance at earning a living that will support a basic lifestyle on a single job. It's called; "learn some fucking skills and stop working at Wal-Mart." Anyone can do it. I have no college education and no vocational training. I taught myself some skills and here I am earning a decent living doing work I enjoy with people I actually like. My work days can be busy but I rarely feel like I'm actually working. Earning a living where you can support yourself and potentially a family is a matter of motivation to better yourself. The apathy that many people are displaying today isn't a behavioral trait that should be fostered or rewarded. We sure as shit shouldn't prop that kind of behavior up at the cost of others who are motivated to do more than simply scrape by.

When you raise the minimum wage too high it creates a domino effect that hurts the middle class more than anyone. You aren't robbing from the rich and giving to the poor. You are robbing from the middle class that does most of the county's work. The solution to the problem isn't to drag other people down. You can't prop up the poor by effectively making more of them.
 
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People do have a chance at earning a living that will support a basic lifestyle on a single job. It's called; "learn some fucking skills and stop working at Wal-Mart." Anyone can do it. I have no college education and no vocational training. I taught myself some skills and here I am earning a decent living doing work I enjoy with people I actually like. My work days can be busy but I rarely feel like I'm actually working. Earning a living where you can support yourself and potentially a family is a matter of motivation to better yourself. The apathy that many people are displaying today isn't a behavioral trait that should be fostered or rewarded. We sure as shit shouldn't prop that kind of behavior up at the cost of others who are motivated to do more than simply scrape by.

When you raise the minimum wage too high it creates a domino effect that hurts the middle class more than anyone. You aren't robbing from the rich and giving to the poor. You are robbing from the middle class that does most of the county's work. The solution to the problem isn't to drag other people down. You can't prop up the poor by effectively making more of them.

You shouldn't take your personal success and apply it to other people. They may not be as adept at learning new skills or have just the right amount of innate talent or connections to land them a job they enjoy doing.
Education or Training is optional, but some people are just really... bad at learning. Somthing to do with Dunning-Kruger effect or some such.


Now, having said that, IDK what to do with such people.
I mean, seemingly, humanity is too obsessed with its self image that we have kind of stuck ourselves into this rut that we can't climb out of.
Like, I am pretty sure that we literally poses the technology and manpower to solve almost all of the problems humanity has caused, like poverty, and still have more than enough to colonize the Moon and Mars by now.
However, for many reasons, we're really not progressing, so far as Humanity's potential is concerned.

TLDR, where is our sci-fi utopia and why are we heading into sci-fi dystopia?
 
Glad they did this.
Jeff Bezos is only the richest man on earth by a factor of two.
The least he can do is pay his employees more than poverty wages.
 
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