Apple Argues Tariff Increase Would Affect Apple Watch, AirPods, Mac Mini, More

Smashing Young Man said:
A simple question: Could we now manufacture and field thousands of tanks and airplanes on relatively short notice like we did during WWII?

Maybe that is a pointless question in the age of nuclear weaponry, but I'd feel a lot better knowing we could still kick the world's ass in a protracted conventional war if need be.
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Lima is running far below maximum rate today.
 
DukenukemX said:
That's not gonna happen. If as a consumer my limit to buying a phone is $400, then I'll buy whatever is $400. If the phone is now $500, I ain't gonna buy it, and Apple knows it. So either Apple makes the cheaper tier phone $400 or they eat the cost. More than likely they'll eat the cost cause I'm not gonna buy a crappy phone for that price when I can just go Android. Plus there's the used market as well which isn't effected by these Tariffs.

It's a really shitty situation for Apple, but not so much for the consumer.
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That is not how it works for Apple people. Sure reasonable adults but not the isheep. They pay thousands for laptops and the apple trash can that has out dated hardware. iPhones are more of a accessorie and status symbol. No one needs to upgrade to the latest and greatest smart phone every year. That also goes to Android phones.
 
faugusztin said:
Moving the production to US is not possible, unless Americans will be willing to work for $400 a month for 160 hours.
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There was a time in this country when that was a lot of money to be making a month, no matter how many hours you actually put in to get it. At that time, if you could not keep a roof over your head with that, you either had extremely expensive tastes, or you were extremely shitty with money.

If we were to go back to that, goods and services here would have to scale back to similar pricing. You know damned well that today's corporations would not go along with that.
 
damicatz said:
That only works if there are other places to get those materials. You don't put tariffs on things you can't get anywhere else and the retard-in-chief is going to crash the economy doing such.

And you can't just snap your fingers and move manufacturing back to the US. There are layers and layers of infrastructure that only exist in places like China that we do not have here. It isn't just the factories to make the parts but the factories that make the parts that make the parts that you need. You would need to set up an entire supply chain.
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Yep. Where I work, we do make some of the things we need in-house, but everything else is sourced elsewhere domestically and overseas. As far as I know the majority of materials we use are stateside. However the tariffs would royally fuck us, and in turn fuck our customers.
 
SecretStash said:
Not sure it's quite like that. After all, foxcon is moving to Wisconsin.
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Jabil has been in Michigan for a long time. I design electronics built in the USA. It's not impossible just a little more work and a little margin. Just need to design the parts for automated assembly. Though highly automated assembly doesn't provide many low skill jobs like manual assembly does in low cost countries.
 
Gorankar said:
The tariffs will never be higher than dealing with Unions, the EPA, labor dept, and various other regulatory bodies in the US.
Apple will still sell their products for a healthy margin anyway.
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Unions or not. The people making iPhones now are making a dollar an hour. Over in the US, minimum wage is $7.25 and no one is going to work that job for minimum wage.
 
Apple is one of the most BS companies in the world. Anybody who takes their whining seriously should seek help. There's no shame in therapy.
 
vegeta535 said:
That is not how it works for Apple people. Sure reasonable adults but not the isheep. They pay thousands for laptops and the apple trash can that has out dated hardware. iPhones are more of a accessorie and status symbol. No one needs to upgrade to the latest and greatest smart phone every year. That also goes to Android phones.
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All that horsepuckies is really old, dude.
 
Staples said:
Unions or not. The people making iPhones now are making a dollar an hour. Over in the US, minimum wage is $7.25 and no one is going to work that job for minimum wage.
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Actually, the average hourly rate for manufacturing jobs in China is on par with South Africa and Portugal. They're paid far more than their counterparts in India, Thailand, the Philippines, and many other places. Also, the minimum wage in China works differently, it is the minimum they receive AFTER deductions for social welfare, housing, meals, and more. Furthermore, trying to do simple math to assess a complex issue is not likely to produce an accurate picture of the true cost. For example, what is the lost revenue for a company like Apple when it has to compete with Chinese copies (of varying quality) of its own tech and IP? As to your opinion that nobody will work a manufacturing/assembly line job for $7.25, I don't think you have any real reason to believe that is true. You may not do it, but I'd imagine countless thousands of Americans would. Steady work for unskilled individuals is perfect for all with degrees in the social sciences.
 
The US selling out it's manufacturing base to Asia took a few decades... unfortunately it's going to take years to get SOME of it back... and probably more than a few tariffs.
 
I decided to chew on this overnight before responding and even after that I can't be bothered to care about apple. The fact is they have the unquestioned highest profit margins in the industry and the people that buy their shit are going to continue buying their shit no matter how expensive it is. These tariffs do however negatively impact other companies that have far lower profit margins and can't simply absorb them and will take the low to mid range hardware and raise the price. This directly impacts people who don't have a ton of disposable income. If there were manufacturers over here producing comparable hardware that would be one thing. However there isn't, so in reality this is just going to take more money out of the american consumers pocket, especially the middle and lower income brackets.
 
“They shipped manufacturing overseas, they took my job we need to bring manufacturing back”

“I want to pay as little as possible for products”

I think I found your problem.
 
China is trying to automate more and more of their manufacturing. With time, all countries will soon be competing less with human wages and more on efficiency with automated processes.
 
Smashing Young Man said:
So you approve of dehumanizing communist slave labor in the service of cheaper consumer goods. Gotcha.
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IS that what my post said?
Not at all man not at all. But this is not more expensive products because we are making them with ethical labor so I dont know why you are lying. This is a single man raising tarrifs and keeping the same unethical supply chain but now we pay more.
 
Wyodiver said:
Apple is one of the most BS companies in the world. Anybody who takes their whining seriously should seek help. There's no shame in therapy.
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100% correct, just look at their utopian tech research ring of power they just built. Not to mention the HUGE corporate tax breaks they just got and the lowering of the repatriation tax allowing them to bring more money back into the US at a lower rate. Give me a break, they are rolling in cash.
 
damicatz said:
That only works if there are other places to get those materials. You don't put tariffs on things you can't get anywhere else and the retard-in-chief is going to crash the economy doing such.

And you can't just snap your fingers and move manufacturing back to the US. There are layers and layers of infrastructure that only exist in places like China that we do not have here. It isn't just the factories to make the parts but the factories that make the parts that make the parts that you need. You would need to set up an entire supply chain.
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This is something that people don't seem to understand, these tariffs are going to fuck us all. This has the potential to completely crater this economy especially since nearly every thing you have in your house is made in China from your coffee makers right on down to your bath towels.
 
trparky said:
This is something that people don't seem to understand, these tariffs are going to fuck us all. This has the potential to completely crater this economy especially since nearly every thing you have in your house is made in China from your coffee makers right on down to your bath towels.
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And everything made in china is BAD for the middle class mmmmkay.
 
vegeta535 said:
That is not how it works for Apple people. Sure reasonable adults but not the isheep. They pay thousands for laptops and the apple trash can that has out dated hardware. iPhones are more of a accessorie and status symbol. No one needs to upgrade to the latest and greatest smart phone every year. That also goes to Android phones.
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Even the iSheep have limits. If there wasn't, then why does Apple make tiered products? Why not just the IPhoneX? Why not just the most expensive Macbook? Because some of the iSheep have to pay bills and rent, assuming they don't live in cars or with their parents. So no, the Tariffs have no real effect on the prices of Apple products, as they're already priced based on what you're willing pay for, not for what makes Apple a comfortable profit. How much does Apple exactly pocket from the sale of an iPhone? About 3x to 4x the cost to make it. So in reality, Apple will just eat the difference from the Tariffs.

The real fear I have is that many companies will use these Tariffs as an excuse to increase prices, cause people in general aren't smart enough to quickly pick up on price increases for the sake of profit increases. This is why an A/C compressor for my car at AutoZone is like $380 for a rebuilt piece of junk, while on RockAuto a brand new Denso A/C compressor is $150. The area I live in and the type of consumer they aim at are what governs the price of products. Things like Tariffs are a drop in the bucket when prices are considered. If the Playstation 4 is $299, then it'll likely stay $299 after the Tariffs, because the number 299 is a physiological trick that convinces you that it isn't $300, but 2 hundred something dollars. That to many companies is more valuable than increasing the price because of the Tariffs.

2hk52x.jpg
 
The real profit is in app stores, and Apple has no qualms about taxing the hell out of devs who sell through them.
 
I'm ok with this, spending power in Cali is double that of WV, I can handle a 10 percent loss of spending power better than I can 20 percent when I was back in the woods.

Not gonna bring jobs here though, probably lose a ton instead, and mostly blue collar. If the cost of materials to make something locally goes up, then you fold, simple as that. Happened before when Bush did it, and it was much smaller scale back then.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/07/steel-tariffs-trump-bush-391426
Bush’s steel tariffs cost 200,000 jobs by boosting the costs of nonsteel manufacturers. The estimated job loss was more than the total employment in the steel industry, which was 187,000 in December 2002.

The biggest job losses were in California (about 19,000 jobs) and Texas (nearly 16,000 jobs). But Rust Belt states like Ohio (10,500 jobs lost), Michigan (almost 10,000 jobs lost), Illinois (9,600 jobs lost) and Pennsylvania (8,400 jobs lost) also suffered, the report found. Still, Bush won West Virginia and Ohio again in 2004.
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Trump’s tariffs would create about 33,464 jobs in the steel and aluminum sectors, but cost 179,334 jobs throughout the rest of the economy — for a net loss of nearly 146,000 jobs.

Construction, distribution and other service sectors would take the biggest hit — a combined loss of 142,305 jobs — because demand for their services would be reduced as companies cut costs to deal with the effects of higher steel and aluminum prices, the new Trade Partnership report found.

But the report also forecast job losses in manufacturing sectors such as fabricated metals (12,802 jobs), motor vehicles and parts (5,052 jobs) and a catchall category know as “other machinery” (5,247 jobs).

Another analytical firm, HARBOR Aluminum, estimated a 10 percent aluminum tariff would create around 1,900 aluminum smelting jobs over the next two years, but destroy from 23,000 to 90,000 direct jobs in the U.S. manufacturing sector.
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Some people are just stuck in last century.
 
DukenukemX said:
That's not gonna happen. If as a consumer my limit to buying a phone is $400, then I'll buy whatever is $400. If the phone is now $500, I ain't gonna buy it, and Apple knows it. So either Apple makes the cheaper tier phone $400 or they eat the cost. More than likely they'll eat the cost cause I'm not gonna buy a crappy phone for that price when I can just go Android. Plus there's the used market as well which isn't effected by these Tariffs.

It's a really shitty situation for Apple, but not so much for the consumer.
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in the day of releasing $1,000.00+ phones at launch and having the sheep line up, the sub $500.00 market does not concern them in any way shape or form. Their response to those people who would move to android over this issue will also switch from "BUY!" to ".....bye" very quickly. because thats exactly what apple has always done with people who say they're moving platforms.

and, so what if it pushes the cost up another 100-200? people who are already spending this much will spend more and in one way or the other, those costs will be borne out by the consumer. just like it always has been with such tariffs
 
Tariffs are bad for everybody other than that small group of people that benefit directly from them. Everybody else (you) has to pay for it. This is exactly what communist countries use to "fix" economy or industrial sectors.
 
trparky said:
This is something that people don't seem to understand, these tariffs are going to fuck us all. This has the potential to completely crater this economy especially since nearly every thing you have in your house is made in China from your coffee makers right on down to your bath towels.
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But you don't seem to understand throwing barrels of money overseas in a one directional trade structure for disposable products has already brought your economy to its knee's! But you loves some cheap shit for your house, regardless of the short term pain will lead to a more equitable future.
 
2 pages of bullshittery and elitism.


Bottom line: Manufacturing is not coming back to the U.S. until robots do 95% of the actual work.
 
ThatsAgood1jay said:
2 pages of bullshittery and elitism.
Bottom line: Manufacturing is not coming back to the U.S. until robots do 95% of the actual work.
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If you think the tariffs are all about bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US, you're mistaken. It's about negotiating fair trade agreements. Tariffs are the stick. Certainly, bringing back some manufacturing jobs to the US would also be a win, specifically the auto industry and steel industry, though it's not the primary purpose of these tariffs. Steel is vitally important, we should never be in a position where we rely on another country for steel. Dangerous. And let's face it, Chinese steel sucks. They have a habit of forging documents.
Trump has said before, he'll go to 0 tariffs with any country who does the same. It sounds good and may be true but that's still not the whole story. Many countries impose trade barriers and other protectionist measures that need to disappear (the US included) before any meaningful free trade agreement.

I'd like to see a real push to remove China from the WTO and revoke their MFN status. We have hundreds of billions more of Chinese goods to drop tariffs on than they do US goods. The trade imbalance they helped create is now going to bite them in the ass. Furthermore, if we go balls out with restrictions on Chinese goods, there is a very high chance of a popular revolt against the gov't in China. Their leaders know this. They are scared.
Canada can piss up a rope, trade with the US accounts for nearly 20% of their GDP while it's roughly 2% of ours. We win those trade wars handily.
Make Mexico the new, friendlier version of China imo. Best to keep your biggest trading partner within artillery range.
 
I think Trump will end up tanking the existing tech market for US. Markets are global and the world deals global. just because you move a product back home the costs to produce it will go up. This cost does not affect the rest of the worlds production. Well you can tax imports into the US , the US does not control taxes of sales into other countries. This means the products that are still manufactured with cheap labor will always be cheaper to buy in any country but the US. Labor in the US is over 400% compared to existing manufacture costs. not to mention the metals and other parts in the production this is why business is done where its done. Would you pay 400% or more for an Iphone? Sure some can choke that down especially if all the similar products were taxed to inflate them to be the same or more expensive. However the market will decrease further as its not out of reach of what most US households could afford so you would be catering to a much smaller %. Globally you still could not compete. Gone are the days where US has a tech advantage. The gaps are very small. I think if US came up with a whole new concept that replaces what already exists they could be back in business but you are talking about markets that already are saturated with products that offer more and change so wildly. If this move happens one best hope that the companies innovate beyond what competition can do at a better cost or you may as well fold the companies.
 
Tariffs on high margin luxury items like iPhones don't mean much. Either folks absorb the cost because it's a luxury item and they don't care, or the company adjusts it's margin expectations to maintain sales.

Tarrifs on low margin high use commodities are what negatively affect economies (cf GW's steel tariffs mentioned earlier).

The question is, what else is affected by the tariffs that Apple is whining about?
 
Can someone quote some reliable data on tariffs imposed on US goods? The numbers I am finding are very low, if any.... Not finding any crazy numbers here... So this argument about Trump being rational I don't know... And considering the fact that many countries buy our debt or trade in dollars at gun point, yeah i would help myself to a little tariff here and there.
 
Laowai said:
If you think the tariffs are all about bringing manufacturing jobs back to the US, you're mistaken. It's about negotiating fair trade agreements. Tariffs are the stick. Certainly, bringing back some manufacturing jobs to the US would also be a win, specifically the auto industry and steel industry, though it's not the primary purpose of these tariffs. Steel is vitally important, we should never be in a position where we rely on another country for steel. Dangerous. And let's face it, Chinese steel sucks. They have a habit of forging documents.
Trump has said before, he'll go to 0 tariffs with any country who does the same. It sounds good and may be true but that's still not the whole story. Many countries impose trade barriers and other protectionist measures that need to disappear (the US included) before any meaningful free trade agreement.

I'd like to see a real push to remove China from the WTO and revoke their MFN status. We have hundreds of billions more of Chinese goods to drop tariffs on than they do US goods. The trade imbalance they helped create is now going to bite them in the ass. Furthermore, if we go balls out with restrictions on Chinese goods, there is a very high chance of a popular revolt against the gov't in China. Their leaders know this. They are scared.
Canada can piss up a rope, trade with the US accounts for nearly 20% of their GDP while it's roughly 2% of ours. We win those trade wars handily.
Make Mexico the new, friendlier version of China imo. Best to keep your biggest trading partner within artillery range.
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The trade imbalance was created by greedy ass US companies wanting not to pay labor or accept labor unions.. by pushing for access to cheap labor and have said products come back to the US with no tariffs you can make mega profits since prices in the US market were at a US market level, meaning meant to pay US salaries and benefits... You know Nike style.. 40 or so shoes that sold for 60 or more became 10 dollar shoes sold for the same... US companies fucked the US.. The Chinese did what they could... Now we are unraveling... It rains and rains.. then floods... These tarffis will do nothing but accelerate our unraveling... We are in no position to dictate a thing, we just don't know it yet.
 
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