NVIDIA Controls AIB Launch and Driver Distribution @ [H]

We will probably go to reviews of old. Most reviewers or reviewers that are worth reading will have to wait till after the actual release.

The “on release day” reviews will just be shells of their former selves peddling more marketing gimickery and less on actual metrics. This really comes down to a lack of competition. Nvidia doesn’t care if their reviews take longer, or done happen at all. With no one forcing them to keep status quo they will continue to force their iron hand like always.
 
Oh Nvidia.. smh.. I don't care what agreements and hoops you're jumping through to keep this on lock down. It's the internet lol.

I really .. really hope AMD is just screwing with everybody and waiting to see Nvidia's offerings first. Maybe not, who knows? Everybody seems to think that Nvidia has a "no competition, no fear" arrogance to them atm. I disagree. Seems to me like they may be a bit worried. Hell, I would be. Look what's happening to Intel atm.. If I was one of the only other competitions for AMD I would be a bit scared myself.
 
Why would Nvidia still care?
Afaik, the thrust of the company is towards industrial applications, in simulation, AI and such. Gamers are a legacy business, not a growth center. So what is the benefit to Nvidia from accommodating that segment?
 
etudiant said:
Why would Nvidia still care?
Afaik, the thrust of the company is towards industrial applications, in simulation, AI and such. Gamers are a legacy business, not a growth center. So what is the benefit to Nvidia from accommodating that segment?
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It's still a significant part of their profits. The question you should ask yourself is: Why would nvidia want to piss off their loyal customers?
 


Personally I think that [H] seems to have found an axe to grind. Don't sign it man, wait until the cards come out and be "independent" and all that jazz. Apparently opinions differ.
 
Just publish reviews showing off only the weakest points in relation to the competition and it's previous generation cards. Nvidia is trying to control the narrative in favor of their cards so selectively do the very opposite.
 
Nolan7689 said:
It just hit me. A photoshop wiz needs to edit the “The Way It’s Meant To Be Played” logo into “The Way It’s Meant To Be Reviewed”
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I'm no wizard.

(It's also late and I'm going to bed soon.)

nvidia-edit.png
 
Looks like good old business. Chase where the money is. There is so so many empty headed reviewers and trendy "video reviews" today they really just want to go with whoever openly promotes them. I think the old days of good old review sites like Hardocp are waning actually. Enjoy this place it's special!
 
Dwayne said:


Personally I think that [H] seems to have found an axe to grind. Don't sign it man, wait until the cards come out and be "independent" and all that jazz. Apparently opinions differ.
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No axe to grind. As I said in the article, if you are card reviewer, then fine, sign it. I think tech "journalists" should not. Pretty simple. I have had the same lawyer for 20 years now, he is a partner, and specializes in IP law. I would suggest what we do time to time and what GN does is a bit different. My lawyer understands what we do at HardOCP, and advised against signing it. No way in hell I am going to open up myself to litigation, as NVIDIA has the resources to bury HardOCP whether we be right or wrong. It is that simple. I had no intention of signing that NDA, but I wanted to know what our readers wanted. If you guys would have been 66% for signing it, I probably would have done it. I am here to serve YOU with the content you want. You spoke, I listened. Had I signed it, I would have very likely had to be very careful with my "journalist" content going forward. Really that simple.

The fact is this. NVIDIA said they would cut me off if I wrote one word about GPP. That NDA was put into place because of GPP, in order to stop the next GPP from being written about. All in all, there will be plenty of RTX reviews to read on launch day. We just likely will not have one. Not the end of the world. I am not mad at NVIDIA. I made my bed. I am good sleeping in it.

That all said, you guys should still know the truth about what is going on in the GPU industry. If you read what I wrote today again, you will see there is very little opinion in it. Pretty much, just the facts.
 
Dwayne said:


Personally I think that [H] seems to have found an axe to grind. Don't sign it man, wait until the cards come out and be "independent" and all that jazz. Apparently opinions differ.
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This has been debunked every time you newbies post it.
The issue is well understood here and that nobody lawyer is not even an IP lawyer. GPP was a clear suppression of journalistic integrity, period. The guy who posted that video is subject to it. Ever wonder how many gpus he got sent to make that video?
 
So no need to cherry pick the cards to send reviewers when you cherry pick the reviewers themselves right?!


There has to be some reason that this release is not full of actual numbers to fuel the hype train. We all assume that Nvidia will have the fastest card out there and its not like the 2080ti will be slower than the 1080ti at anything really. Well hopefully not for 500 bucks more..

Kyle has stated more than once that he is seeing things being handled and done in ways that he has never seen... EVER. If you are the top dog with no real completion right now why be so obscure with your hot new product? Why play it so close to the chest? Its just not a good look.
 
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N4CR said:
This has been debunked every time you newbies post it.
The issue is well understood here and that nobody lawyer is not even an IP lawyer. GPP was a clear suppression of journalistic integrity, period. The guy who posted that video is subject to it. Ever wonder how many gpus he got sent to make that video?
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0. Next to Kyle and Brent, Steve is one of the few tech folks around that I'd trust to not only give an honest opinion, but to not BS about it. However, they are more of a review and general news focused site which means the NDA would present them less problems than it would someone like Kyle.
 
Already started trolling their Facebook page.


Because fuck 'em.

Yes I have a 1070 GTX. Goal is to fix that when AMD's new hotness drops. Don't care if it's the same card performance wise. I want my computer to be bullshit free.
 
I also enjoy the work of Tech Jesus but even he said don't go buy a $1200 dollar gpu without making an informed decision. Like when reviews and actual performance data is available. Also agree that GN does a good job at stating their findings with their reviews and seem unbiased. But if you want to say whatever you want, whenever you want through your media outlet then this NDA seems to take some things off the table. A straight benchmark and review format doesn't seem to be a deal breaker which is more GN's thing.
 
What Nvidia is doing is pure BS. You got your cards and see how they run... in Linux perhaps?... Make your comparison there with the older 10 series cards and wait for the proper drivers/ software to leak out. If this an issue that is. You better believe it will be leaked out in Eastern Europe, Good o' Russia Land, China, India, and the Pacific Rim.

And on to the masses in the Interwebs.
 
A bit over reacting to a company that release a product to the market, and the control it had with the media. As someone pointed out, the dominant companies are using similar tactics. It is not isolated to Nvidia. If you don't like it, then don't buy Apple, stop using Google, uninstall Windows, cancel your Facebook.
Unfortunately, this is the way how big companies works.
I had an NDA with a pharma company that basically says you can't tell others the ingredients of medicine (which the box has it, but I can't say it lol)
When I was in a software start up, we had a deal with a big tech company. They liked our product over time and said, "You can have our deal and no other customers, or lose our business". They cut us off eventually and hire a bigger team than our company put together to develop a similar product.
Yes, the corporate world...
 
Icon_Charlie said:
What Nvidia is doing is pure BS. You got your cards and see how they run... in Linux perhaps?... Make your comparison there with the older 10 series cards and wait for the proper drivers/ software to leak out. If this an issue that is. You better believe it will be leaked out in Eastern Europe, Good o' Russia Land, China, India, and the Pacific Rim.

And on to the masses in the Interwebs.
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ADDED: Where in hell did they get this IP attorney from from the Video? There is so much vagueness in the NDA contract to wiggle a lawsuit from one corporation to the little guy. And the little guy does not have the money to deal with this... And yes I have a IP attorney who is one of my investment partners.
 
Phlorge said:
you are heavily over estimating this websites influence and reach.
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Not quite...

Granted, I have not spelled out the whole strategy in detail from beginning to end but the point is there is an advantage to being "small".
 
Axils said:
A bit over reacting to a company that release a product to the market, and the control it had with the media. As someone pointed out, the dominant companies are using similar tactics. It is not isolated to Nvidia. If you don't like it, then don't buy Apple, stop using Google, uninstall Windows, cancel your Facebook.
Unfortunately, this is the way how big companies works.
I had an NDA with a pharma company that basically says you can't tell others the ingredients of medicine (which the box has it, but I can't say it lol)
When I was in a software start up, we had a deal with a big tech company. They liked our product over time and said, "You can have our deal and no other customers, or lose our business". They cut us off eventually and hire a bigger team than our company put together to develop a similar product.
Yes, the corporate world...
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That is some shit advice. Hey if you don't like their tactics don't use a modern phone! Uninstall the OS you use and stop playing any games! Then if AMD comes out with this kind of heavy handed crap it will be time to stop buying GPUs!
 
Whoever is in charge of PR at nVidia (or whoever it is that is doing this cold war bullshit, with who can and cannot get review samples) should be fired. It's clear that it's entire purpose was to silence [H], but it isn't improving your PR landscape... If GPP had some overreaches just admit it, correct the issue in the next iteration, and move on. This mess looks bad, clean it up already.

I will not make any purchase decision until I read the [H] review. I don't trust any other reviews after seeing other sites get sold off and turned into shills.

nVidia, stop being so damn childish.

/signed, long time nvidia customer who has bought a TNT2, GeForce 2 MX, GeForce 3 Ti 500, GeForce FX 5900 (whichever one was the space heater with the harley davidson of graphics cards blower), GeForce 6800 Ultra, GeForce 8800 Ultra, GeForce 9800 GX2 (this one sucked, sli scaling with 2 hot gpus on one card did not meet expectations), GeForce GTX 280, GeForce GTX 480, GeForce GTX 580, GeForce GTX 680 SLI, GeForce GTX 980 Ti (evga overclocked), Geforce GTX 1080Ti (evga overclocked edition). And I might have forgotten one in there somewhere between the 6800 ultra and the 9800 gx2..

p.s. Prior to the TNT2 I had: an Ati Mach 32 which was the shit at original Doom/Doom 2, and was so fast I could lag out other players when I fired the plasma gun at machine gun speeds... =) After that is was a Sierra Screamin' 3D (Redition Verite V1000) card before the TNT2. I also owned a Radeon 9700 Pro in between the GeForce 3 Ti500 and the FX5900. Had repeated and continued driver issues that pushed me to the FX5900.
 
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GoodBoy said:
Whoever is in charge of PR at nVidia (or whoever it is that is doing this cold war bullshit, with who can and cannot get review samples) should be fired. It's clear that it's entire purpose was to silence [H], but it isn't improving your PR landscape... If GPP had some overreaches just admit it, correct the issue in the next iteration, and move on. This mess looks bad, clean it up already.

I will not make any purchase decision until I read the [H] review. I don't trust any other reviews after seeing other sites get sold off and turned into shills.

nVidia, stop being so damn childish.

/signed, long time nvidia customer who has bought a TNT2, GeForce 2 MX, GeForce 3 Ti 500, GeForce FX 5900 (whichever one was the space heater with the harley davidson of graphics cards blower), GeForce 6800 Ultra, GeForce 8800 Ultra, GeForce 9800 GX2 (this one sucked, sli scaling with 2 hot gpus on one card did not meet expectations), GeForce GTX 280, GeForce GTX 480, GeForce GTX 580, GeForce GTX 680 SLI, GeForce GTX 980 Ti (evga overclocked), Geforce GTX 1080Ti (evga overclocked edition). And I might have forgotten one in there somewhere between the 6800 ultra and the 9800 gx2..

p.s. Prior to the TNT2 I had: an Ati Mach 64 which was the shit at original Doom/Doom 2, and was so fast I could lag out other players when I fired the plasma gun at machine gun speeds... =) After that is was a Sierra Screamin' 3D (Redition Verite V1000) card before the TNT2. I also owned a Radeon 9700 Pro in between the GeForce 3 Ti500 and the FX5900. Had repeated and continued driver issues that pushed me to the FX5900.
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I'm surprised, as a long time Nvidia customer, you seem to have forgotten this company's past. They have had a long and storied history of countless devious tactics, designed to drive their competition out of business. It goes back to the 90s. This is how they have succeeded, and they will not stop. For half or more of your owned GeForce cards, AMD/ATI had a superior alternative, but Nvidia won because people wouldn't buy AMD/ATI even when Nvidia were clearly beaten. Why? Because they know how to control the narrative through shady and underhanded means. They will continue to be childish bullies while customers keep falling for their nonsense. Over time, they have gotten into a dominant position, snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. Of course, they know from the past that things can change very quickly*. AMD will be first on 7nm, and their deep collaboration with Sony (and most likely Microsoft) on Navi could bring significant advantages. So, Nvidia will do absolutely everything in their power to consolidate while they have the chance.


*The Vega 64 - GTX 1080 Ti battle would remind many of 2900 XT - 8800 Ultra. NVIDIA was utterly dominant. Yet the generation after that, AMD smashed it out of the park with HD 4870 - GTX 280 fight. That was like a GTX 1060 beating Vega 56. So, it's understandable why Nvidia wants to consolidate while they are dominant.
 
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goodwine said:
I'm surprised, as a long time Nvidia customer, you seem to have forgotten this company's past. They have had a long and storied history of countless devious tactics, designed to drive their competition out of business. It goes back to the 90s. This is how they have succeeded, and they will not stop. For half or more of your owned GeForce cards, AMD/ATI had a superior alternative, but Nvidia won because people wouldn't buy AMD/ATI even when Nvidia were clearly beaten. Why? Because they know how to control the narrative through shady and underhanded means. They will continue to be childish bullies while customers keep falling for their nonsense. Over time, they have gotten into a dominant position, snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. Of course, they know from the past that things can change very quickly*. AMD will be first on 7nm, and their deep collaboration with Sony (and most likely Microsoft) on Navi could bring significant advantages. So, Nvidia will do absolutely everything in their power to consolidate while they have the chance.


*The Vega 64 - GTX 1080 Ti battle would remind many of 2900 XT - 8800 Ultra. NVIDIA was utterly dominant. Yet the generation after that, AMD smashed it out of the park with HD 4870 - GTX 280 fight. That was like a GTX 1060 beating Vega 56. So, it's understandable why Nvidia wants to consolidate while they are dominant.
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Hehe, let me insert here that I called for NVIDIA's Derek Perez' resignation over the T&L debacle 20 years ago...

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2000/02/04/tnl_does_work_day_3/
 
N4CR said:
This has been debunked every time you newbies post it.
The issue is well understood here and that nobody lawyer is not even an IP lawyer. GPP was a clear suppression of journalistic integrity, period. The guy who posted that video is subject to it. Ever wonder how many gpus he got sent to make that video?
Click to expand...

GN is a reputable review and hardware site. My point is that lawyers opinions differ on the NDA, as GN took the time back in June to look into it. I imagine that an NDA from AMD is pretty standard and vague as well. Not that I have seen one, I just can't imagine NDAs to be all that different.
 
Thank you again, Kyle, for all this! I think you should've left the double-space after the periods in your lawyer's quote, though lol When I originally read it in the "Sign or not?" thread, I knew it was from a lawyer and not made up. No one would think to add that little detail! ;)


As for the rest of us, look on the bright side... With the fact that the drivers are now under lock and key, after the embargo is up, it shows us who has succumed to nV's and whose reviews of any furture AMD hardware needs to be taken with a salt-lick sized grain of salt.
Anything these sites put out from now on will be called into question, regardless of whether or not their data on this launch was fudged. Greed accepts greed, and that's what signing the NDA illustrates in my eyes. That these sites see that launch day reviews result in page hits which equates to ad revenue. There will be fewer sites producing these reviews -- at least I hope it's more than just Kyle who has a backbone -- which funnels even more people to the selected few sites.

The jewelry world has Blood Diamonds and Conflict Gemstones.
The computing world now has Blood Drivers and Conflict Graphics Cards. lol
 
dook43 said:
Time to vote with your dollars, people.
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If only that was a realistic option. Had it been, I would have jumped on it. However, with an ultrawide G-Sync screen on my desk and a strong desire to run just about every setting at max, there's just no viable alternative to the Green Goblin.

The only solution to these deplorable and steadily deteriorating business practices is for AMD (and/or Intel) to get their finger out and come up with something which can challenge the performance offered by Nvidia's top cards. As long as the latter remains a de facto performance monopolist they'll continue to do what every monopolist does: fuck the consumers over every which way they're able to.

Then again, there's always the risk that AMD will adopt the same amoral practices if they ever attain parity with Nvidia. When you're small and fighting to survive, appearing cute, fluffy and entirely benevolent is pretty much a necessity. Whether that image would remain or quickly develop cracks with a market share of 40-50% in the pocket is very much an open question.
 
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Belfaborac said:
However, with an ultrawide G-Sync screen on my desk and a strong desire to run just about every setting at max, there's just no viable alternative to the Green Goblin.
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And NV was counting on locking you into that. It is great tech however. Good stuff.

Belfaborac said:
Then again, there's always the risk that AMD will adopt the same amoral practices if they ever attain parity with Nvidia.
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I do not see that happening unless we see Lisa leave and a huge shift in the corp culture there. Even Rory Read could not run that out of AMD.
 
All of you guys that hate on Apple for the slightest thing they do, but love nVidia... Total hypocrites.

nVidia make Apple look like saints.
 
Parja said:
Geez, even more shady shit from NVIDIA. I don't see why they're being such shitbags when they're already the top dog in the industry. There's no way this crap is helping their business.
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Sadly I don't see it hurting their business that much right now either since AMD really has not responded back with strong offerings to compete with a 2080 / Ti. I'm not saying what they are pushing is bad by any means just that they have been fairly quite on the heavy gaming GPU front for far to long. Same thing happened with their CPU's and thankfully they came out swinging with Ryzen.
 
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biggen said:
Very good job indeed Nvidia. My stock shares continue to rise and make money. I hope they don’t change a god damn thing.

You don’t want to sign the NDA, then stop bitching. Buy the card and do the reviews on your own when they become available. No NDA required.
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No, apart from explaining why their reviews are likely to be late, I rather appreciate the warning that all previews of these cards are very likely to be biased (or, if you believe them to be biased any ways, even more biased than normal)

These shenanigans reduce the amount of reliable information (before release) on these cards to zero.
 
NKD said:
I guess this is what happens when they know they don't have competition right now. Locking down on the AIBs and reviewers and controlling the entire outcome top to down. Pre orders a month out, second batch of 2080ti pre orders not shipping until october, 2070 pre orders not shipping until november.

Reviews might not show up until launch day. This is like perfect execution. I guess most people will do it just cuz they are desparate for new cards.
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But they do have competition, people need to pull their heads out of their asses and realize this (I see it regurgitated all over the internet). A 1080ti or Titan arent a requirement to game on, they are just flag ships with low volume and high margins. Vega 56 and 64 perform respectively within their tier and go mostly blow for blow against the 1070 and 1080. The polaris cards again hold their own. People need to take the time and cut through Nvidias marketing bullshit because all they have done is shit on the gaming industry with their proprietary garbage.
 
Stimpy88 said:
All of you guys that hate on Apple for the slightest thing they do, but love nVidia... Total hypocrites.

nVidia make Apple look like saints.
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I don’t expect any company to be saints or even remotely have my best interest in mind. To think otherwise one would have to be insane or from another planet. Considering all companies do crappy things for a buck I tend not to think of who’s producing something when making a purchase, but look for which product suits my needs. Nvidia usually delivers in this regard. I’ve decided for the time being against getting an RTX as I don’t feel it will deliver and the price is absurd. Whether Nvidia are jerks or not, I don’t care.
 
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