The Year Windows Died at Home and Nobody Cared

If I didn't primarily use my gaming rig for gaming... Yea, Windows is irrelevant at home use for most...

My brother and his wife use iPhones pretty much exclusively. They have an 8 or 9 year old Windows laptop they dump pictures on (and don't back up most likely...). They have no interest in buying a new PC, they do everything they need on their iPhones...

My dad bought a windows PC because... windows. He literally does banking and Facebook on it. It is slow as a dog with a 1TB 5400 RPM HDD.... Seriously, 4 hours for WIndows updates slow...

My mom.... Pretty much uses her Google Pixel for everything. Her Windows laptop has been in a bag at my place for months, the last time she left it it here... Yea....

I bought a Google Pixelbook as an experiment for a living room PC and it is really great. Simple, nothing to mess with, super fast for internet browsing activities. Literally nothing to worry about or go wrong. Problem? Power wash and log back in.... I have zero problem recommending a Chromebook to my family.... With the constant threat of malware from indiscriminate internet clicking on Windows... who wants to deal with the headaches when you just need something simple? Windows has become too complicated for it's own good.

PS. Spend way too much time fixing and maintaining Windows machines at work.... I have no problem leaving that behind in my home life. Keep that crap for work / enterprise is just fine with me...
 
Canon said:
PS. Spend way too much time fixing and maintaining Windows machines at work.... I have no problem leaving that behind in my home life. Keep that crap for work / enterprise is just fine with me...
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I never understood that. My old boss was that way. She didn't even have a computer at her house, other than the company laptop. Why would you get into this line of work if you hate it so much? I use Windows computers for everything. With a chromebook everything has to be able to run through a web browser.
 
[21CW]killerofall said:
I thought that PC sales were growing? How can you have "waning interest" in PCs if they are growing?
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While I doubt it's dying, increased sales could easily be attributed to businesses upgrading hardware as they roll out Windows 10.

That said, if he's right, then I must assume that PC gaming is dying and last I heard, PC gaming was doing OK. I don't know what the state of the PC is outside of that, but I'd assume that people with kids in school that can afford a computer are going to get one. You can't write a paper on phone and while you can do it on a tablet, I would dread doing it.
 
Canon said:
PS. Spend way too much time fixing and maintaining Windows machines at work.... I have no problem leaving that behind in my home life. Keep that crap for work / enterprise is just fine with me...
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That's a shame. I also help to maintain Windows clients at work, and I also deploy them. Our Windows 10 users are pretty quiet and I rarely see problems with them outside of stuff like failing hardware. Even despite Win10's more aggressive update policy and revolving version update mechanism, they seem to be pretty trouble-free. /shrug.
 
I do not know about PC dying, but if MSFT does not see the sales they want or expect, it probably has a lot to do with them being utter putzes forcing shit on the average "joe" that he or she just simply does not want and causes more hassle than it actually fixes...KISS method should have been paramount...we had the "perfect" start menu with Win 7, then they butchered it IMHO...it worked just fine, maybe add a few functionalities to it, cool, but totally butcher it to make it anything but unobtrusive as a totally douche move.

IMO XP was quite good in its day (once kinks were sorted out) Vista brought in new things (massive headaches till Win 7 was released) and everything was pretty much "spot on" then they did 8/8.1/10 whatever "mojo" they had that allowed them to fix the blunder that was Vista to bring out Win 7, they lost it.

They are in business to make money there is zero doubt about that, but it is the customer/buyers opinion that is what truly matters (at least it should be, customer happy, make money, customer pissed off, they might just find something else for future purchase, such as tablet, chromebook etc) if they keep ripping things away to give crap that people generally do not want much of the bread and butter that keeps their doors open is lost.

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There is a great deal they should have done (still can) just as much they should not have done (but did anyways) if they are pissed off that adoption rates are not as high as they want (do not see the billions expected) then they really should smarten up and do away with a bunch of the crud that people have bitched about over the last handfull of few years (too difficult for the servers to keep track of what updates you have so now is "batches" give me a fk break)

would not hurt to make sure that Win 10 on USB/disc directly from them just WORKS (cannot tell you how many reviews over many websites/stores people bitched about this) on USB is awesome, on USB that it is cheaply made so it breaks or is not auto-programmed to "run" is crappy as hell, especially to be "forced" to reburn a copy from their website to that same USB..they really shit the bed on Win 8/8.1-10

Something "simple" would have been to make sure that bandwidth metering was turned on by default so the user does not have to deal with forced updates and raking up their internet bill because MSFT wants to be "cheap", because they sure as hell do not pay the users internet bill ffs.

anyways, I do not see PC as "dying" maybe MSFT piss poor interest in making the experience as user friendly and least headaches as possible is what is dying, or I should say, maybe a good chunk of peoples opinion on them being utter douches is increasing so their sale are diminishing, I wonder the other OS numbers have went up in a similar amount, such as chromebook, linux installs, ipad etc?

where are they going to go next, server ONLY LOL.
 
Dead Parrot said:
This isn't because the PC is Dead but more has become a generic appliance. Most folks only replace a toaster or microwave when it dies. PCs have fallen into the same category for the average end user.

You see much the same thing in the smartphone world. The average end user just wants the thing to work, they don't care if it is Android Gummy Bear or Marshmallow or Dead Chicken or Apple V10.2.X. And in much of the US and Europe, smartphone purchasing isn't much different then the replacement rate. Reports claiming the "Death of the Smartphone" probably aren't far away.
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This is a large part of the issue.
I've done minor upgrades on the PC's in the house over the years (we have 4 desktops), such as adding SSD's or upgrading a video card, but the current system I'm running was my first new build in over 5 years.

The other issue is Microsoft abandoning the consumer.
One of my desktop is a HTPC, running windows 7 media center with a cable card tuner. I'm stuck running Windows 7, since Microsoft abandoned Media center as of windows 8.
It's the only DVR in the house connected to the only TV in the house. As long as I'm still getting cable TV I need it, since I'm not going to spend the money for the limited cable company DVR.
I'm stuck with cable since I can't get OTA where I live. Only other choice is Satellite and their custom DVR.
 
nutzo, I too wish they hadn't dumped WMC :(. I ended up with a Tivo premiere xl4 (4 tuners, 2tb hdd). The installer had to call in to central when I moved to try to find a cable card and go pick it up from another installer's van two towns away.

Apparently virtually no one even uses Tivo nowadays or cablecard :(. I was a little surprised.... I bet WMC had virtually no users, and that's why it was deprecated, but I wish it hadn't been.
 
well, there is nothing to entice upgrades . Sales of Windows now is a necessity , not a want.

next big thing in the near future would be Augmented Reality, combined with transparent screens (no one want glasses) .
 
The writing is on the wall imo. Its not going to die off now or anytime soon it might take another 10-20 years. There is a generation of kids now who are just using ipads and phones, I was shocked when my friends kid couldnt use a keyboard at all. Once this generation hits the workforce I think you might see Windows take a backseat.

Tablets and phones can do everything most people need for home or private use these days, they can do spreadsheets, email and accounting quite well. There is no incentive for most people to own a PC now
 
gbnz said:
The writing is on the wall imo. Its not going to die off now or anytime soon it might take another 10-20 years. There is a generation of kids now who are just using ipads and phones, I was shocked when my friends kid couldnt use a keyboard at all. Once this generation hits the workforce I think you might see Windows take a backseat.

Tablets and phones can do everything most people need for home or private use these days, they can do spreadsheets, email and accounting quite well. There is no incentive for most people to own a PC now
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I doubt that, these generations of kids will have no choice but to use a desktop once they reach college at least, (more over when they start working)
 
You could swap 75% of home user's OS for Linux with a Windows look and feel and most would never notice or care if you told them after the fact.
 
jpm100 said:
You could swap 75% of home user's OS for Linux with a Windows look and feel and most would never notice or care if you told them after the fact.
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I did that to a few apartment complex business centers and everything went fine. Saved $$ too since the comp came without and OS.
 
jpm100 said:
You could swap 75% of home user's OS for Linux with a Windows look and feel and most would never notice or care if you told them after the fact.
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Until they decide they want to buy TurboTax, Quicken, or that home landscaping software they think will be pretty cool.

What we are getting to is the divide between those who consume and those who produce. Think radios and TV's. The "average" person just want to turn it on, and listen to some music or watch a show. They don't want to worry about broadcasting, production, recording, transistors, etc. With computers, you have a large public base who just want to watch videos, listen to music, type out a short message, and buy stuff. When the PC first came out, there was a promise that we could learn how to do all sorts of cool computer things, and most people were doing it at first, but as computers became more capable for entertainment purposes, people started using them mostly for that. There are still those who want to use computers to produce, and I believe that number is not shrinking, but the number of people who only want to be entertained, are growing.
 
Committed to the enterprise? Why did I just have to prod my wife's O365 Outlook install to update itself so the turn off focused inbox button would be available?
 
If the author noticed only in 2017 that the PC is going to expire, then that is pretty late.
  • PC market has peaked in 2012, this coincided with the rise in smartphone sales.
  • PC installed base is in decline since 2016.
  • Time spent per day on desktop/laptop PCs has been in decline since 2011. Interestingly, the time spent per day declined roughly proportionally to sales.
  • There are still some market segments that are growing, e.g. Chromebooks, 2-in-1s, and gaming PCs. But I think with the advent of 5G, gaming will be increasingly moving into the cloud.
With the PC market in terminal decline, there is nothing which Microsoft can do to rescue it. The only thing they can reasonably do is squeeze as much money out of the users locked into Microsoft ecosystem (mostly Office) as long as it lasts.
 
jardows said:
Until they decide they want to buy TurboTax, Quicken, or that home landscaping software they think will be pretty cool.

What we are getting to is the divide between those who consume and those who produce. Think radios and TV's. The "average" person just want to turn it on, and listen to some music or watch a show. They don't want to worry about broadcasting, production, recording, transistors, etc. With computers, you have a large public base who just want to watch videos, listen to music, type out a short message, and buy stuff. When the PC first came out, there was a promise that we could learn how to do all sorts of cool computer things, and most people were doing it at first, but as computers became more capable for entertainment purposes, people started using them mostly for that. There are still those who want to use computers to produce, and I believe that number is not shrinking, but the number of people who only want to be entertained, are growing.
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75% of users/PC's, not necessarily homes. Only one person needs to run those. Likely the same person that sets up the printers, network, etc on all the house machines. Most people using PC's use it for Mail and browsers, end of story. Libre Office is adequate for most wordprocessing and spreadsheet use and is easy enough to setup.
 
jpm100 said:
75% of users/PC's, not necessarily homes. Only one person needs to run those. Likely the same person that sets up the printers, network, etc on all the house machines. Most people using PC's use it for Mail and browsers, end of story. Libre Office is adequate for most wordprocessing and spreadsheet use and is easy enough to setup.
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Wordpad is adequate for most people's word processing requirements.
 
Bobert said:
The corporate meme of "The PC is dying" isn't going to go away until they have everyone on dumb terminals connected to the cloud with an always on internet connection.

That is their ultimate goal.

The corporate borg don't want people having personal computers anymore, they want you on a cloud computer which they control to siphon all your data.
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You forgot the monthly subscription.
 
steakman1971 said:
I was at Walmart today (shudder) - and swung by their computer section. I was surprised. Lots of Razer devices, a few high end gaming monitors, and they had an iBuyPower PC on display (but not plugged in - thinking it should have as it had water cooling and likely lots of LEDs). The Walmart close to my house is the only computer within 15 miles that sells any products like this. Have a few BestBuy's if i'm willing to drive a bit. A Microcenter a little further out.
Wonder how many computers Walmart sells? I swear half the people shopping their have less than a 6th grade education. The web site peopleofwalmart.com must have taken a lot of inspiration at this one :)
Anyway, back to the point. the home PC market is not Microsoft's bread and butter. Mobile phones have replaced a lot of peoples home computing requirements. (I think I have like 12 systems at my house - half Windows 10, FreeNas, Ubuntu systems, a (gasp) a few macOS systems). I gave away a few computers recently - didn't know what to do with a few older ones.
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Heh, I've got 12 systems too! 9 desktops and 3 laptops. My main desktop and laptop are dual booters, the rest are just Win 10.
 
AtomClock said:
I begin to understand why Windows 10 is so bad... Apparently, all of Microsoft developers are using IPhones to do their programming instead of PCs. After all, if the PC is dead what else could they be using?
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They use the users, to do their testing, you don't need computers for that.
 
nilepez said:
While I doubt it's dying, increased sales could easily be attributed to businesses upgrading hardware as they roll out Windows 10.

That said, if he's right, then I must assume that PC gaming is dying and last I heard, PC gaming was doing OK.
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PC gaming has been increasing for some 10+ years. In fact, even during the time period where the PC market as a whole was in decline, the PC gaming market was still rising. It can't rise forever, but it certainly hasn't hit its peak yet.
 
Hagrid said:
I did that to a few apartment complex business centers and everything went fine. Saved $$ too since the comp came without and OS.
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Hell yes, it’s like getting free money just by putting Linux on the machine.
 
nutzo said:
This is a large part of the issue.
I've done minor upgrades on the PC's in the house over the years (we have 4 desktops), such as adding SSD's or upgrading a video card, but the current system I'm running was my first new build in over 5 years.

The other issue is Microsoft abandoning the consumer.
One of my desktop is a HTPC, running windows 7 media center with a cable card tuner. I'm stuck running Windows 7, since Microsoft abandoned Media center as of windows 8.
It's the only DVR in the house connected to the only TV in the house. As long as I'm still getting cable TV I need it, since I'm not going to spend the money for the limited cable company DVR.
I'm stuck with cable since I can't get OTA where I live. Only other choice is Satellite and their custom DVR.
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Have you checked out SageTV? It's now open source and it works really well. I've got a SageTV server to handle all the recordings and 4 SageTV clients, 1 for each TV. I use 3 Silicon Dust 'HDHomerun Prime' cable ready tuner boxes (3 tuners per box) instead of standard cable boxes. The wifey can be recording 9 shows at once with this setup. The cable card rental cost is less than the cable box rental. The server and clients are all running under Windows 10 64bit.
 
Windows lost relevancy due to changing times. This gen just expects things more or less to work, it'd just there. It doesn't have that mystique or aura...that tweakability as it did in the late 90's mid 00's. I attribute alot of this to android and smart phones. It's also just been slight changes since each release.

Joe average doesn't care about DX12. He cares about cameras, pixels, apps, and filters.The GUI and interface looks the same (save for 8.1) ...hell we still don't have proper text on LCD. Windows as a brand is stale, but it's necessary and runs our games and steam accounts. It isn't going anywhere.
 
These articles come out based on the increased use of smart phones. I can say if I ever have to do anything productive, I am on my PC and not my phone. I am so much more proficient and accurate on a PC compared to these over priced phones. I am all for a new, competitive, and viable desktop operating system though. I would like to see something other than Windows and Apple OS.
 
Honestly, if it wasn’t for gaming and Adobe products, I would be on Linux full time.

I have one Win10, 2 Ubuntu 18.04 boxes and a Macmini on the home network, can't stand the Mac, only person that uses it is the wife to pay bills.

I am slowly working on the wife to use one of the Ubuntu boxes.
 
I've been reading about the death of Windows since XP came out. I guess if they keep churning out these articles every year they'll eventually get it right one of these years.
 
Bobert said:
Yes, everything is headed in that direction. They want infinite monthly rental payments which means more $$.

They don't want anyone making a one time payment and owning physical copies of software anymore.
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The best is when you get called a Luddite for not viewing that as progress.
 
sadsteve said:
You forgot the monthly subscription.
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This is the point that I believe causes/caused the decline of PC sales. No one owns the software anymore. Its a turn off to those who want to work on stuff at home so they let their employer buy the subscription. This business model is killing home PC sales IMO.
 
GoldenTiger said:
nutzo, I too wish they hadn't dumped WMC :(. I ended up with a Tivo premiere xl4 (4 tuners, 2tb hdd). The installer had to call in to central when I moved to try to find a cable card and go pick it up from another installer's van two towns away.

Apparently virtually no one even uses Tivo nowadays or cablecard :(. I was a little surprised.... I bet WMC had virtually no users, and that's why it was deprecated, but I wish it hadn't been.
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I was pretty much on my own getting it all working.
While technically COX supports cable cards, and supports (at least when I installed it) cable cards on WMC, the support is mostly non-existent.
I talked to multiple support people who would tell me they couldn't help me or that it wasn't supported, even though the web site said it was.
I finally had to have a tech come out because it wouldn't work (card wouldn't activate which I told them was a problem on the setup on their side).
The tech came out, called his support to reset everything and it still didn't come up. He went to his truck to get a different part, and it finally started working, proving the problem was due to an incorrect setup on their side.

Luckily it's been working for several years now, with just an occasional windows problem to fix on my side.
 
sadsteve said:
Have you checked out SageTV? It's now open source and it works really well. I've got a SageTV server to handle all the recordings and 4 SageTV clients, 1 for each TV. I use 3 Silicon Dust 'HDHomerun Prime' cable ready tuner boxes (3 tuners per box) instead of standard cable boxes. The wifey can be recording 9 shows at once with this setup. The cable card rental cost is less than the cable box rental. The server and clients are all running under Windows 10 64bit.
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I'll consider it when WMC is no longer viable or if I need to rebuild the box. Wife/kids already know how to use WMC, so I'd hate to have to retrain them. :p
Also not sure if Sage TV support the Ceton tuner, so a new tuner would be an added expense.
 
Bobert said:
Yes, everything is headed in that direction. They want infinite monthly rental payments which means more $$.

They don't want anyone making a one time payment and owning physical copies of software anymore.
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Well, it's too late in my case. With the exception of Affinity Photo and Steam games I'm using open source cross platform tools (Libre Office, Code Composer Studio [TI's version of eclipse], jEdit, Thunderbird, Firefox, g++, etc). I gave up on Adobe when they went the subscription route. I basically do most of my normal computing/programming in Linux and my photo editing and games in Windows.
 
GoldenTiger said:
So, is Linux #1 yet?
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It's always the year of Linux on the desktop, until it isn't!

I suspect the answer to Linux taking over is "approximately never," barring a major new distribution or Chromebooks taking off at a level that makes pandemic-level adoption look modest. In many ways, Linux is hindered by the very things that its advocates like: it's community-made, with few set standards and a tendency to cater to enthusiasts rather than everyday users.

On the plus side, the Mac got a big boost thanks to Apple's in-house chips, so that may be more of an option if you want to get away from Windows.
 
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