Valve Seems To Be Working On Tools To Get Windows Games Running On Linux

Just get Bethesda games including Doom working and I will lose my windose install. I have kept it around for decades just to play games and having it gone would be very sweet.
 
I'm not a gamer and don't usually pay too much attention to this subject, but could Valve's long term Linux goal be kernel level? Tweaks they can't make in Windows like IO/controller/etc latency improvements, console type stuff?

I could see having total control over the entire stack desirable as games get more and more complicated.
 
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PenGunn said:
Just get Bethesda games including Doom working and I will lose my windose install. I have kept it around for decades just to play games and having it gone would be very sweet.
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A native Linux/Vulkan build of DOOM 2016 apparently has existed internally at id software for some time. Unfortunately they're owned by Zenimax, and were they not, I imagine it would've already been added to Steam for Linux. Unclear what weird politics are holding up its native Linux release, and why. id does mention that their internal renderer is entirely Vulkan now, OpenGL has been completely removed. Even the editors are using Vulkan. DOOM Eternal is also said to be entirely Vulkan, and they've noted that its made it easier scaling it down, like for the Switch. More developers will eventually become aware of the efficiencies of writing for one API that allows them to hit every platform from PC's to consoles to mobile.

We'll see what happens. For now, the anti-Linux-gaming dudes can keep nervously parroting that Windows has more games, but all it takes is one or two killer AAA's and the dam breaks.
 
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DPI said:
For now, the anti-Linux-gaming idiots can keep nervously parroting that Windows has more games, but all it takes is one or two killer AAA's and the dam breaks.
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This goes well beyond a couple of AAA games. 2018 YTD these are the game title counts by platform on Steam and these number can't possibly be what Valve was hoping for almost 6 years ago when it started supporting Linux:

Linux 839
Mac 1398
Windows 6185

If there's something to be nervous about, it would be that everyday this year Windows is getting on average over 27 new titles on Steam and Linux less than 4 on average. In absolute terms there are now more games for Windows on Steam relative to Linux than when Linux had ZERO games on Steam. This is simply not sustainable indefinitely if Linux is to have any appeal beyond hardcore Linux fans and it obvious that this large content gap is at the core of the Valve's motivation here.
 
Valve should just hire John Carmack and develop an entirely new OS primarily for gaming. Forget that VR garbage.
 
Travolta said:
Valve should just hire John Carmack and develop an entirely new OS primarily for gaming. Forget that VR garbage.
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You know what is amazing about PC gaming? Its the fact that I can use my PC for everything. This is a huge part of why PC gaming no matter what people claim about optimization on consoles just don't get. The top end specs that PC gamers can get isn't what drives the market. Because most average people aren't on Hard tweaking every little thing and carefully analyzing their graphics quality. Most people just want to use the PC they already have to game, or use the gaming PC they have to do everything else. The second you try to make some specialized OS then you go into console territory and defeat a large part of the point of PC gaming. As long as the OS that runs my games also runs MS office, and all the other things I do on a computer I have no motivation to switch. And most people are just that way which is painfully obvious by steam stats. Valve already tried a Linux push, valve supported macs, but its just not gaining steam cause it misses this critical factor in PC gaming.
 
I would be fine switching to 100% Linux. Besides games, not sure I have a need for Windows 10 at home. At work, I do use Visual Studio so Windows is nice for that. I also use macOS for Xcode. Depends on what I'm working on.
 
heatlesssun said:
Considering the disdain for Microsoft in the Linux community, at least when it comes to desktop software, it's just not worth it on the desktop. And what's the point especially in the area of gaming where PC gaming means Windows gaming?
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Yep. Linux is just too small for most devs to care, and linux fans always tout open source and free. It's little wonder they don't cough much cash up for games.
 
GoldenTiger said:
... and unlike Linux, it has potential to take off.
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And if even VR doesn't take off it will get better and there will be a market for it. PC gaming is big enough to support different niche groups. There's certainly space in PC gaming for Linux users for those that don't want to use Windows or a Mac, I doubt it's going away.

I'm not anti-Linux anything, I'm just looking at it practically. What does Linux gaming bring to Windows gamers? In the specific case, Windows games. Who besides a hardcore Linux fan is going to dump Windows for gaming ONLY to run WINDOWS GAMES?

And I'm not knocking it. This a good thing FOR LINUX GAMERS. It offers jack shit to Windows gamers. And that's fine.
 
There are more gamers than *Windows* gamers. Most only happen to run Windows to game because... well... they want to run most games.

There's no loyalty for Windows in gaming.

Make gaming on any other OS/platform better and/or convenient, and (mostly) everyone will just vanish from Windows gaming, save for accidentally clicking the damn Candy Crush that keeps popping up all the damn time!
 
cdr_74_premium said:
There are more gamers than *Windows* gamers.
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On the PC though, not that many more though and that's the problem for macOS and Linux. When a dev says "Coming to the PC" what they really mean is "Coming to Windows" and no one is confused by that language.

cdr_74_premium said:
Make gaming on any other OS/platform better and/or convenient, and (mostly) everyone will just vanish from Windows gaming, save for accidentally clicking the damn Candy Crush that keeps popping up all the damn time!
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Of course. Take the perhaps the single greatest strength of Windows make it even better (in terms of GAMING) and put it on another platform and sure people will follow. No one debates something this obvious. But taking Windows games and adding compatibility tech on top is not that. It's for plugging an app gap in Linux.

I admit I don't get all of the issues with Candy Crush. I actually play those games on my 2 in 1s sometimes. But I have like around 400 games on my sig rig and like Candy Crush just isn't a problem.
 
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Man, if only Linux would get HDR support (that has been WIP for long time) and if madshii would create a Linux version for MadVR, I could kick Windows away for good. I do not like Linux and the way it works but I dislike Microsoft as a company even more. If Linux gets everything I want and need in my OS then I'll gladly switch and learn to use the new OS properly.
 
DPI said:
We'll see what happens. For now, the anti-Linux-gaming dudes can keep nervously parroting that Windows has more games, but all it takes is one or two killer AAA's and the dam breaks.
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I'm the LAST person who is nervous about Linux gaming taking over, I can honestly think of nothing better to happen to PC gaming. That said, I've played a lot of different kinds of games and the thought of the "dam breaking" as though Linux is about to rush in and take over is just flat out delusional. It doesn't matter how many games Linux supports, it matters what platform games are being sold on. In order for the "dam to break" Linux would have to be gaining dramatic usage on, if not overtaking Windows in the desktop space, (we're talking double-digit percentages). I'm just not seeing any scenario where this happens. Considering the abuse the average consumer is accepting with Windows 10, I'm not sure where the floor on that is. Maybe if Windows goes all out "as a service", but I honestly don't know anymore.

Now what COULD happen (which I think is also a longshot, but who knows), is Linux gets 95%+ game compatibility against Windows so it becomes a realistic alternative for gamers. That still won't be a "dam breaking", but could lead to a more significant trickle over a long period of time. At this point, I just don't see any scenario where Windows gets dethroned as the PC gaming platform, but by all means, spell it out for me if you think otherwise.
 
tetris42 said:
I'm the LAST person who is nervous about Linux gaming taking over, I can honestly think of nothing better to happen to PC gaming. That said, I've played a lot of different kinds of games and the thought of the "dam breaking" as though Linux is about to rush in and take over is just flat out delusional. It doesn't matter how many games Linux supports, it matters what platform games are being sold on. In order for the "dam to break" Linux would have to be gaining dramatic usage on, if not overtaking Windows in the desktop space, (we're talking double-digit percentages). I'm just not seeing any scenario where this happens. Considering the abuse the average consumer is accepting with Windows 10, I'm not sure where the floor on that is. Maybe if Windows goes all out "as a service", but I honestly don't know anymore.

Now what COULD happen (which I think is also a longshot, but who knows), is Linux gets 95%+ game compatibility against Windows so it becomes a realistic alternative for gamers. That still won't be a "dam breaking", but could lead to a more significant trickle over a long period of time. At this point, I just don't see any scenario where Windows gets dethroned as the PC gaming platform, but by all means, spell it out for me if you think otherwise.
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You're not going to overtake Windows in the desktop space while licensing agreements exist between Microsoft and every OEM PC manufacturer on the planet. It's just not going to happen and you really do need to consider the undeniable fact that these licensing agreements are the main reason for Windows popularity on the desktop and not the fact that Windows is in any way an outstanding desktop experience.

Another point need to consider is the fact that Linux has more titles under Steam alone than Xbox One, PS4 and Switch combined. Even if half of those titles under Linux on Steam are total garbage (which they are not), 50% of the Steam catalog under Linux is still double the Catalog under any one console alone.

I agree, no dam is likely to break. But the way things are going with Linux gaming under Steam combined with easy to use solutions such as Lutris, Linux is fast becoming a very realistic alternative to the many PC users that are sick of the issues surrounding Windows.
 
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heatlesssun said:
This goes well beyond a couple of AAA games. 2018 YTD these are the game title counts by platform on Steam and these number can't possibly be what Valve was hoping for almost 6 years ago when it started supporting Linux:

Linux 839
Mac 1398
Windows 6185

If there's something to be nervous about, it would be that everyday this year Windows is getting on average over 27 new titles on Steam and Linux less than 4 on average.
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90%, if not more, of those games on Windows are garbage because any reused stock shit asset flip is put on Steam for Windows. The actual difference between useful games is much smaller. Still there, of course, but not as big.

And you're again confirming that Windows is only as good and useful as its monopoly, not its own merits.
 
So basically it's back to the pre-xbox strategy on DX.

incoming DX 13, 14, 15, 16....
 
Meeho said:
90%, if not more, of those games on Windows are garbage because any reused stock shit asset flip is put on Steam for Windows. The actual difference between useful games is much smaller. Still there, of course, but not as big.

And you're again confirming that Windows is only as good and useful as its monopoly, not its own merits.
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I don't know what the garbage ratio is (it's high, though 90% sounds hypberbolic), but there's a LOT of long-tail games too, to the tune of hundreds each year. The point is on Windows you're not missing any PC games. On Linux, you still are.
 
tetris42 said:
I don't know what the garbage ratio is (it's high, though 90% sounds hypberbolic), but there's a LOT of long-tail games too, to the tune of hundreds each year. The point is on Windows you're not missing any PC games. On Linux, you still are.
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His point was the ratio. Nobody disputes that Windows is the leading PC gaming platform.
 
Meeho said:
90%, if not more, of those games on Windows are garbage because any reused stock shit asset flip is put on Steam for Windows. The actual difference between useful games is much smaller. Still there, of course, but not as big.
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If the amount of game content weren't a problem for Linux then it's difficult to see why Steam would even bother with this. The whole point of this is to increase the number of games playable under Linux even if they are shitty Windows games.
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Meeho said:
And you're again confirming that Windows is only as good and useful as its monopoly, not its own merits.
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Let me rephrase this. Windows is only as good as its 3rd party support. And that's true for just about any OS platform, especially for a client used heavily by average consumers.
 
tetris42 said:
I don't know what the garbage ratio is (it's high, though 90% sounds hypberbolic), but there's a LOT of long-tail games too, to the tune of hundreds each year. The point is on Windows you're not missing any PC games. On Linux, you still are.
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But on Linux you're missing Windows and for many the loss of a couple of games to be free from the issues surrounding Windows is a pretty fair trade off. Gamers aren't thoughtless, they aren't shallow and they don't appreciate being manipulated - Just look at the whole EA loot crate saga for evidence of that.
 
Mazzspeed said:
But on Linux you're missing Windows and for many the loss of a couple of games to be free from the issues surrounding Windows is a pretty fair trade off. Gamers aren't thoughtless, they aren't shallow and they don't appreciate being manipulated - Just look at the whole EA loot crate saga for evidence of that.
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Yet, they continue to be manipulated, buy into companies with bad practices, practically every AAA game out there has DLC + microtransactions now and is released in a beta state on launch. You have a few camps of PC gamers:

-Ones that don't care what they game on (this is the vast majority). They're using Windows because that's what their system came with and it runs their games.
-People who are sick of Windows, but want to play ALL the games they're interested in, so they don't switch (this is the camp I'm in).
-People who are sick of Windows, and are either casual gamers or else being off Windows is worth the cost of missing out on some games.

If just going by Steam surveys, the number of people in that last category is less than 0.5%. That's statistical noise that has almost no impact on which way the market is going. I'd love for that to change, but I'm simply not seeing how that's going to happen.
 
tetris42 said:
Yet, they continue to be manipulated, buy into companies with bad practices, practically every AAA game out there has DLC + microtransactions now and is released in a beta state on launch. You have a few camps of PC gamers:

-Ones that don't care what they game on (this is the vast majority). They're using Windows because that's what their system came with and it runs their games.
-People who are sick of Windows, but want to play ALL the games they're interested in, so they don't switch (this is the camp I'm in).
-People who are sick of Windows, and are either casual gamers or else being off Windows is worth the cost of missing out on some games.

If just going by Steam surveys, the number of people in that last category is less than 0.5%. That's statistical noise that has almost no impact on which way the market is going. I'd love for that to change, but I'm simply not seeing how that's going to happen.
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You're missing a group here, maybe not large but one that exemplifies the problems with gaming on Linux. DIY/higher-end gaming rigs that would be severely limited for gaming under Linux. And while that's a small percentage of PC gamers, tech tends to trickle down. From there all retail gaming rigs come with Windows because just imagine someone buying a gaming laptop at Walmart that was marketed as a gaming machine that when home and found out it doesn't run Fortnite, at least not natively.

From there just go look at Steam and what's on the popular titles list this weekend. Out of 10 titles, only two have native Linux versions. The idea that the problem with Linux gaming isn't about a couple of titles, it's about 80%+ of ALL PC gaming titles.
 
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tetris42 said:
Yet, they continue to be manipulated, buy into companies with bad practices, practically every AAA game out there has DLC + microtransactions now and is released in a beta state on launch. You have a few camps of PC gamers:

-Ones that don't care what they game on (this is the vast majority). They're using Windows because that's what their system came with and it runs their games.
-People who are sick of Windows, but want to play ALL the games they're interested in, so they don't switch (this is the camp I'm in).
-People who are sick of Windows, and are either casual gamers or else being off Windows is worth the cost of missing out on some games.

If just going by Steam surveys, the number of people in that last category is less than 0.5%. That's statistical noise that has almost no impact on which way the market is going. I'd love for that to change, but I'm simply not seeing how that's going to happen.
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There are issues with the Steam survey. One of the bigger issues is that we have no idea what that 0.5% really relates to without overall Steam user numbers, which haven't been released by Valve in years. All we know is that they're constantly growing - Which in itself affects the displayed percentage, but not necessarily in a statistically negative way even though the reported percentage may report otherwise.

As stated by Mehoo, no one's disputing Windows popularity as a gaming platform. The issue as quoted by Mehoo, is that Windows is only as useful as it's monopoly, which doesn't really highlight any actual merits of the operating system and really isn't benefiting the consumer.

The more Microsoft push the concept of Windows as a service, limit end user control over one's PC, bloat the operating system and provide poorly tested updates the more people are going to allow for acceptable losses in order to escape the platform. Linux is never going to be a Windows replacement when it comes to gaming, Linux is a viable alternative for those tired of the issues surrounding Microsoft and their attitude towards their end users.
 
Mazzspeed said:
As stated by Mehoo, no one's disputing Windows popularity as a gaming platform. The issue as quoted by Mehoo, is that Windows is only as useful as it's monopoly, which doesn't really highlight any actual merits of the operating system and really isn't benefiting the consumer.
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There is one HUGE benefit for Windows users, game compatibility. And if it weren't a big deal why in the hell would Valve and others be spending all of this effort trying to get Windows games to work under Linux?

Mazzspeed said:
Linux is never going to be a Windows replacement when it comes to gaming, Linux is a viable alternative for those tired of the issues surrounding Microsoft and their attitude towards their end users.
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I think this is reasonable statement. For some folks, particularly more casual PC gamers, Linux can offer some benefits over Windows.
 
heatlesssun said:
There is one HUGE benefit for Windows users, game compatibility. And if it weren't a big deal why in the hell would Valve and others be spending all of this effort trying to get Windows games to work under Linux?
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For the exact reason I stated and you agreed with. To provide an alternative for people tired of the issues surrounding Windows and to make more money by appealing to a wider audience of previously untapped Linux users. Too often people think of Valve as friends of Linux, the fact is Valve are undoubtedly in it for the money and obviously even Valve can see the trend regarding users disgruntled with the practices of Microsoft.
 
Mazzspeed said:
Too often people think of Valve as friends of Linux, the fact is Valve are undoubtedly in it for the money and obviously even Valve can see the trend regarding users disgruntled with the practices of Microsoft.
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Whatever the level of dissatisfaction is with Windows gamers, only about 14% of the games released on Steam this year to date have native Linux clients. If Linux can't run the overwhelming majority of games that come to the PC then all Linux is a solution that causes more problems than it solves.

I agree that Valve is trying to make money and while I get Linux fans seem gloss over the issue, average people who are looking to play games are going see the lack of content under Linux and quickly forget about it, at least for gaming. Native Linux support is at such a low level that Valve is kind of forced to do something, almost anything if Linux gaming is to be more than an ultra-niche thing for Windows haters. If Valve can sell more games, even if they Windows games to Windows haters, then why not?
 
I don't understand this hatred of Valve trying to make money? Like, duh! They're a company. However, the end goal is that of which grants them freedom, same as you, from another corporate entity. You like Linux? Well, so does Valve. If they couldn't make money from it, they wouldn't be investing in it. The motivation isn't a demon. It's the reason.

Valve pushing this and investing this is the only way Linux will ever see an increase in adoption. You should take your allies how you get it.

I swear the nuttiness is similar to Green Energy folks hating Elon Musk for being a capitalist. Like, duh! He's doing more to advance your cause then 99% of those keyboard activist would do in a life time or two.
 
twonunpackmule said:
I don't understand this hatred of Valve trying to make money? Like, duh! They're a company. However, the end goal is that of which grants them freedom, same as you, from another corporate entity. You like Linux? Well, so does Valve. If they couldn't make money from it, they wouldn't be investing in it. The motivation isn't a demon. It's the reason.

Valve pushing this and investing this is the only way Linux will ever see an increase in adoption. You should take your allies how you get it.
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Who is hating on this? This a good thing for Linux gamers, I said that from the start. I'm just being real about it. They're doing this in part because native gaming Linux support is poor. I can't imagine that 6 years ago when this all started that Valve wanted Steam Machines to fail and only 14% of new games coming to its store to support Linux. They had to have greater expectations.

I think they fell into a classic trap. "Windows sucks so bad that people are just screaming for alternatives." Guess what. Maybe they are, but not at the cost of 86% game compatibly. Yes, I'd love an alternative to Windows, not some gimped up shit that brings just more problems. And that won't be the case for everyone. For some, like gamers with basic needs, Linux can be fine. But for the latest and greatest in PC gaming, Linux sucks because of the lack of support. It's obvious.
 
heatlesssun said:
Who is hating on this? This a good thing for Linux gamers, I said that from the start. I'm just being real about it. They're doing this in part because native gaming Linux support is poor. I can't imagine that 6 years ago when this all started that Valve wanted Steam Machines to fail and only 14% of new games coming to its store to support Linux. They had to have greater expectations.

I think they fell into a classic trap. "Windows sucks so bad that people are just screaming for alternatives." Guess what. Maybe they are, but not at the cost of 86% game compatibly. Yes, I'd love an alternative to Windows, not some gimped up shit that brings just more problems. And that won't be the case for everyone. For some, like gamers with basic needs, Linux can be fine. But for the latest and greatest in PC gaming, Linux sucks because of the lack of support. It's obvious.
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I want an OS built for games. Simple as that. Whoever does that, will get my money.
 
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heatlesssun said:
Whatever the level of dissatisfaction is with Windows gamers, only about 14% of the games released on Steam this year to date have native Linux clients. If Linux can't run the overwhelming majority of games that come to the PC then all Linux is a solution that causes more problems than it solves.
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I don't see any scenario where the promotion of Linux as a gaming platform creates more problems than it solves in the case of people tired of Microsoft's actions.

As we've confirmed, hardcore gamers are likely to stick with Windows. However the casual gamers that most likely make up the vast majority of Steam's sales judging by hardware specs under the Steam hardware survey with GTX 1050/1060 GPU's making up the bulk of the DX12 GPU's and Intel HD4000 iGPU's making up the bulk of DX11 GPU's with around half of all users still using dual core CPU's are fairly unfaithful and far more likely to swing to the platform that respects them as users.

These are the users Valve is targeting, no doubt in an attempt to take away some of Microsoft's monopolization in the gaming marketplace and allow Valve to place a few of their eggs in another basket. A move many would regard as good business on behalf of Valve by diversifying their dependence on Microsoft as a platform.
 
twonunpackmule said:
I want an OS built for games. Simple as that. Whoever does that, will get my money.
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If one is a DIY PC gaming rig type, it doesn't really work like that. First you determine what you want from a gaming experience and the hardware budget. When I built my sig rig two years ago I wanted 4k and VR support and as usual in all the years I've played PC games, the ability to play whichever ones were out there.

From this perspective there's generally only on option, the latest versions of Windows to go with all of the other new stuff.
 
Mazzspeed said:
I don't see any scenario where the promotion of Linux as a gaming platform creates more problems than it solves in the case of people tired of Microsoft's actions.
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Windows 10 is at least in the 90% plus range of native compatibility of all games on Steam, maybe some issue with really old games. Sell someone a Linux gaming laptop and that's where the problems will crop up.

Mazzspeed said:
As we've confirmed, hardcore gamers are likely to stick with Windows. However the casual gamers that most likely make up the vast majority of Steam's sales judging by hardware specs under the Steam hardware survey with GTX 1050/1060 GPU's making up the bulk of the DX12 GPU's and Intel HD4000 iGPU's making up the bulk of DX11 GPU's with around half of all users still using dual core CPU's are fairly unfaithful and far more likely to swing to the platform that respects them as users.
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Sure, but Linux compatibility isn't just a problem for hardcore gamers, most smaller and even indie developers don't develop for Linux.

Mazzspeed said:
These are the users Valve is targeting, no doubt in an attempt to take away some of Microsoft's monopolization in the gaming marketplace and allow Valve to place a few of their eggs in another basket. A move many would regard as good business on behalf of Valve by diversifying their dependence on Microsoft as a platform.
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Not exactly sure how making native Windows code run under Linux is breaking Microsoft's monopolization. It's very possible making worse by discouraging developers for making non-Windows native content. While this a good thing for Linux gamers it's far from a victory lap because it's an acknowledgment from Valve that there's a lack of native Linux games. There's no other reason to do this.

Maybe it helps spur native Linux development or something else. But it is a risk that all it does give PC developers even less reason to develop anything besides Windows.
 
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