Anthem May Not Support Text Chat on PC

Megalith

Megalith

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Anthem’s creative director has admitted that text chat may not be included in BioWare’s upcoming quasi-MMO shooter. While it is easy to jump to conclusions, Brenon Holmes explains the implementation is complicated by the Twenty-First Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act (CVAA), which mandates text-to-speech functionality in certain games released after 12/31/18.

The FCC had extended its video game industry waiver for another year back in December, which means games released past December 31, 2018 will have to adhere to these guidelines. While the task of turning all text in-game to speech would be monumental, it’s disappointing a publisher as big as EA isn’t able to commit to having these features.
 
Huh?

If you are blind you can't SEE the video game so what difference does it make if you can't read the text.

If you can see the video game then you can read the text, unless you are illiterate. Which means you don't deserve to have a PC.

The FCC needs to go take a jump in a lake.
 
DrLobotomy said:
Huh?

If you are blind you can't SEE the video game so what difference does it make if you can't read the text.

If you can see the video game then you can read the text, unless you are illiterate. Which means you don't deserve to have a PC.

The FCC needs to go take a jump in a lake.
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Precisely. This isn't helping anyone. I'm all for making things more accessible when possible, or when it makes sense. There are always going to be activities though that are not possible for absolutely everyone to do. Also, as you say, this isn't helping anyone anyway, so it's beyond pointless, it's backward.

This is argued sometimes, but IMO video games are art. They should be able to be presented however the artist wants to present them. I'm a musician. If I all of a sudden had to have a braille readout to say which notes were being hit under penalty of law, I think I'd stop composing. Not that such a machine wouldn't be kind of cool.
 
It's cool I didn't want to hear / read the shit others are saying anyway. In fact public chat just annoys me in games. I wish I could turn it off in every game.
 
DrLobotomy said:
Huh?

If you are blind you can't SEE the video game so what difference does it make if you can't read the text.

If you can see the video game then you can read the text, unless you are illiterate. Which means you don't deserve to have a PC.

The FCC needs to go take a jump in a lake.
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You think that's bad? Look up 508 Compliance which requires products purchased for government use to be accessible for people with disabilities which include vision impairment. It's a requirement for the government purchase program that makes it VERY fucking hard to order foreign products which includes basically every piece of technology we use because these companies aren't required to follow the compliance unless they operate in the US. Basically it comes down to, "Make sure that power button on the projector uses a bump or braille identifier."
 
DrLobotomy said:
Huh?

If you are blind you can't SEE the video game so what difference does it make if you can't read the text.

If you can see the video game then you can read the text, unless you are illiterate. Which means you don't deserve to have a PC.

The FCC needs to go take a jump in a lake.
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There are varying degrees of blindness. Some people may be able to see the game, but not read small text quickly.


There are also cognitive disabilities that affect reading without affecting the ability to play a game or hear spoken speech. Think dyslexia, but that's just one example.


Bigger font would cover alot of that. Also, localization is hard enough, but implementing TTS in multiple languages would be a major pain... As others said, this needs to be implemented at some lower level, as re-implementing it in every new release is asking alot.
 
brucethemoose said:
There are varying degrees of blindness. Some people may be able to see the game, but not read small text quickly.


There are also cognitive disabilities that affect reading without affecting the ability to play a game or hear spoken speech. Think dyslexia, though there are others.


Bigger font would cover alot of that. Also, localization is hard enough, but implementing TTS in multiple languages would be a major pain... As others said, this needs to be implemented at some lower level, as re-implementing it in every new release is asking alot.
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I agree with all of this, however, I don't think that not implementing all of it, should preclude them including a plain old text messaging system. So, they opt out, and don't include it now. The game still isn't getting TTS, so what would it hurt anyone to have plain text in the game?
 
DrLobotomy said:
Huh?

If you are blind you can't SEE the video game so what difference does it make if you can't read the text.

If you can see the video game then you can read the text, unless you are illiterate. Which means you don't deserve to have a PC.

The FCC needs to go take a jump in a lake.
Click to expand...

Very worrisome. Had no idea about this, and it will be a massive problem for games (at least AAA games) going forward if this is true. I don't ever use the mic and I tend to block mics in all games.
 
Flogger23m said:
Very worrisome. Had no idea about this, and it will be a massive problem for games (at least AAA games) going forward if this is true. I don't ever use the mic and I tend to block mics in all games.
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Hey! We agree on something! :p I always turn off all voice comm features.
 
J3RK said:
I agree with all of this, however, I don't think that not implementing all of it, should preclude them including a plain old text messaging system. So, they opt out, and don't include it now. The game still isn't getting TTS, so what would it hurt anyone to have plain text in the game?
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If it's an option to ship new products without accessibility; nobody's likely to implement accessibility. I don't have a lot of tears to cry for video game developers who don't want to comply with a law from 2010 for new releases after the end of 2018. Mediocre text to speech isn't that hard, popular OSes these days have a system service for it.
 
toast0 said:
If it's an option to ship new products without accessibility; nobody's likely to implement accessibility. I don't have a lot of tears to cry for video game developers who don't want to comply with a law from 2010 for new releases after the end of 2018. Mediocre text to speech isn't that hard, popular OSes these days have a system service for it.
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I'm not arguing against having the features. I'm just calling into question where the lines are drawn for this sort of thing.

Also, if they can simply "opt out" of having text comms, instead of implementing a full TTS system, then what good is the law doing anyway?

How is having no pure text comms better than having some, but without TTS? The people that would benefit from TTS still aren't getting it.

I would argue that having a text-only system IS in fact an accessibility option in and of itself. Sure they could go the extra step, but it actually makes the game more accessible than just having speech alone.
 
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"Requires on-screen text menus and program guides displayed on TV by set-top boxes to be accessible to people who are blind or visually impaired"

TV and set top box UI designers cant even get the menus to make sense half the time for people with 20/20 vision. Now the TV will need to read out every menu setting?
 
To specifically address this issue with Anthem, I'm only looking at Anthem for a great coop experience, to play with my daughters and their husbands. They are the only people I care to play this game with and if I can't play it that way without dealing with all the other morons on the internet, then I won't be playing Anthem. And so, I don't care about this at all in regards to Anthem, so I am perfectly fine with voice only no text chat in a game where I don't want to deal with strangers.
 
Government ruining things for everyone just because you can't please the minority. Par for the course.

At least you can't pin this one on Ajit Pai :ROFLMAO:.
 
I'm legally blind in one eye, so I can't properly experience movies or games in 3D. Thus all forms of media that are in 3D must also support Dolby Atmos surround sound so I too can experience 3D otherwise you aren't allowed to put it out in 3D. Perfect! Kill 3D or offer full surround support standard!
 
J3RK said:
I'm not arguing against having the features. I'm just calling into question where the lines are drawn for this sort of thing.

Also, if they can simply "opt out" of having text comms, instead of implementing a full TTS system, then what good is the law doing anyway?

How is having no pure text comms better than having some, but without TTS? The people that would benefit from TTS still aren't getting it.

I would argue that having a text-only system IS in fact an accessibility option in and of itself. Sure they could go the extra step, but it actually makes the game more accessible than just having speech alone.
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Accessibility laws are like this. The federal government doesn't force you to have a public business, or a public restroom, but if you have a public restroom, you need to make reasonable accommodations for disabled people. Apparently, as of 2010 laws, the line is drawn at if you have text, you need to be prepared to TTS it; and in some places, if you have words, you need to provide them as text too; but there's no current requirement for real time speech to text for multiplayer games (but note that telecommunications relay service exists for phone calls -- don't be surprised if that becomes a requirement to integrate with in the future, but i feel bad for all the operators that are going to have to relay all the shit that gets said on open multiplayer voice chat)
 
Why the fuck werent you working on this YEARS ago. It was obvious at some point this would have to be done.
 
toast0 said:
Accessibility laws are like this. The federal government doesn't force you to have a public business, or a public restroom, but if you have a public restroom, you need to make reasonable accommodations for disabled people. Apparently, as of 2010 laws, the line is drawn at if you have text, you need to be prepared to TTS it; and in some places, if you have words, you need to provide them as text too; but there's no current requirement for real time speech to text for multiplayer games (but note that telecommunications relay service exists for phone calls -- don't be surprised if that becomes a requirement to integrate with in the future, but i feel bad for all the operators that are going to have to relay all the shit that gets said on open multiplayer voice chat)
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Yes, but people aren't mandated to play an entertainment product either, nor is it a necessity for day to day life or survival. It's also not crucial for dealing with emergency services. I know it may look like I'm not, but I am very much for making the lives of people with disabilities easier. This specific instance (and possibly others like it) though seems misguided at best.
 
toast0 said:
Accessibility laws are like this. The federal government doesn't force you to have a public business, or a public restroom, but if you have a public restroom, you need to make reasonable accommodations for disabled people. Apparently, as of 2010 laws, the line is drawn at if you have text, you need to be prepared to TTS it; and in some places, if you have words, you need to provide them as text too; but there's no current requirement for real time speech to text for multiplayer games (but note that telecommunications relay service exists for phone calls -- don't be surprised if that becomes a requirement to integrate with in the future, but i feel bad for all the operators that are going to have to relay all the shit that gets said on open multiplayer voice chat)
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Not exactly. It only applies to person-to-person text chat, as this is a telecommunications law. Hence removing text chat means Bioware doesn't have to worry about TTS.

That's what makes it all kind of iffy. The law was seemingly written with pure communication services in mind: it's applicability to video games (where communications is a small feature of a much larger program) is a quirky side effect.
 
I’d rather go the other way. I’m a little hard of hearing and would love subtitle implementation.

And it doesn’t affect me but colorblind modes wouldn’t go amiss with being required. Yeah yeah nanny state but it’s nice to be a bit inclusive with hobbies, rather than hipster and guarding a hobby.
 
Nolan7689 said:
I’d rather go the other way. I’m a little hard of hearing and would love subtitle implementation.

And it doesn’t affect me but colorblind modes wouldn’t go amiss with being required. Yeah yeah nanny state but it’s nice to be a bit inclusive with hobbies, rather than hipster and guarding a hobby.
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Slightly off topic, but ReShade is great for implementing your own colorblind modes on PC.

Nvidia is already looking at similar implementations, so I imagine colorblind support will be baked into graphics drivers before too long.

Also, most games I play do have subtitle options already.
 
Nolan7689 said:
I’d rather go the other way. I’m a little hard of hearing and would love subtitle implementation.
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I was born without most of my left eardrum, and am ~90% deaf in that ear. (It doesn't hear anything until sounds hit ~90db. And at that point, there's questioning if I actually hear it, or if my skull resonates and my other eardrum picks it up.)

I dig subtitles.
 
This is getting out of hand. I'm all for people with disabilities getting all the help they could get. But not at the expense of everyone else. They're equally important, not more important.
 
M76 said:
This is getting out of hand. I'm all for people with disabilities getting all the help they could get. But not at the expense of everyone else. They're equally important, not more important.
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Unfortunately, if you're not willing to raise the cost of everyone else to help people with disabilities, it's just not going to get done. Curb cuts for wheelchairs cost money, door openers cost money, bigger bathroom stalls cost money, telecommunications relay services cost money, captioning and audio descriptions cost money, text to speech costs money. It doesn't matter that it's "for entertainment only," disneyland doesn't get to say nope to wheelchairs throughout their park because it's only for fun; they have to make reasonable accommodations -- you can ride the train in a wheelchair, but not a rollercoaster -- but if it's safe for you to can get into the vehicle and ride it, you can take a wheelchair to the loading area and ride the ride.
 
I used to drive a city bus in Austin.

One year during SXSW, my bus was beyond capacity (think I had like 75+ people onboard) I pulled up to a pair people in powered wheelchairs on Lavaca. I opened the door and said sorry, I'm full, they of course started to bitch about them being ADA and all, and I said no, you are just as inconvenienced by a full to capacity bus as a normal person, and the ADA laws specific state that I do not treat you special. I closed the door and drove off, without them.

Afterwards I learned that those 2 were ADA advocates that were deliberately waiting at bus stops in-between the UT campus and Downtown, where they knew the busses would be packed to capacity. Once onboard (if they got onboard), they would ride one bus stop (2 blocks or so) get off, and cross the street to do it all again in the other direction. They wanted to get denied service, so they could have cause to sue or whatever to promote their agenda (and whatever self importance).


Anyway, I'm all for reasonable accessibility, but not to the point that it starts impacting persons that do not need assistance.
 
toast0 said:
Unfortunately, if you're not willing to raise the cost of everyone else to help people with disabilities, it's just not going to get done. Curb cuts for wheelchairs cost money, door openers cost money, bigger bathroom stalls cost money, telecommunications relay services cost money, captioning and audio descriptions cost money, text to speech costs money. It doesn't matter that it's "for entertainment only," disneyland doesn't get to say nope to wheelchairs throughout their park because it's only for fun; they have to make reasonable accommodations -- you can ride the train in a wheelchair, but not a rollercoaster -- but if it's safe for you to can get into the vehicle and ride it, you can take a wheelchair to the loading area and ride the ride.
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I don't mind subsidizing a second small roller coaster for disabled people. But let me have my fun unrestricted. Don't remove attractions, because it is not suitable to everyone. It's like saying no, you can't climb that cliff, because there is a little fat kid here, who can't do it and would feel bad.
 
toast0 said:
Unfortunately, if you're not willing to raise the cost of everyone else to help people with disabilities, it's just not going to get done. Curb cuts for wheelchairs cost money, door openers cost money, bigger bathroom stalls cost money, telecommunications relay services cost money, captioning and audio descriptions cost money, text to speech costs money. It doesn't matter that it's "for entertainment only," disneyland doesn't get to say nope to wheelchairs throughout their park because it's only for fun; they have to make reasonable accommodations -- you can ride the train in a wheelchair, but not a rollercoaster -- but if it's safe for you to can get into the vehicle and ride it, you can take a wheelchair to the loading area and ride the ride.
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I think he meant "expense" in that in this case, a direct negative impact is felt by non-disabled persons. The examples you mentioned don't really negatively impact non-disabled persons, and do accomplish the "make everyone have equal access" goal.
 
brucethemoose said:
Slightly off topic, but ReShade is great for implementing your own colorblind modes on PC.

Nvidia is already looking at similar implementations, so I imagine colorblind support will be baked into graphics drivers before too long.

Also, most games I play do have subtitle options already.
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Most do have subtitles yes, but I always think back to the first Assassins Creed game and reading an article about how it’s was a large amount of manpower for all the languages and making subtitles for all that dialogue so they didn’t include them. Further releases they did do the work of including them.
 
TTS is horrible. I've watched some Twitch streams that have TTS and 12 year olds abuse the fuck out of it.
 
MavericK said:
I think he meant "expense" in that in this case, a direct negative impact is felt by non-disabled persons. The examples you mentioned don't really negatively impact non-disabled persons, and do accomplish the "make everyone have equal access" goal.
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Plenty of businesses don't have a public restroom, because they don't have the room or money to make it accessible for the disabled, or they don't include a cool part of their factory in the tour because they didn't have space to put a ramp and couldn't justify paying for an elevator. Or they did have that, and when they got sued for violated ADA, they just walled it off. In this case, the developer has decided to pull out text communication instead of adding TTS (or taking the risk of non-compliance).
 
Nolan7689 said:
Most do have subtitles yes, but I always think back to the first Assassins Creed game and reading an article about how it’s was a large amount of manpower for all the languages and making subtitles for all that dialogue so they didn’t include them. Further releases they did do the work of including them.
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Yeah, I'm amazed game studios can localize voice acting and subtitles at all, even if they contract it out to other companies.

AFAIK your average movie has like 1000 or 2000 lines of dialogue, while alot of games are pushing 10,000 or more (Fo4, for example, allegedly has over 111,000). That's ALOT of speech to localize, even if only some of it is voice acted, all in a smaller overall budget.
 
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Queue the text box being spammed with "i fucked your mom hurdy hur" if they get this working
Or if its me "You fucking cocksucking maggot infested cuntbag...gimme some ammo"
 
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