Google Vows to Appeal $5 Billion Fine from EU Over Bundled Android Services

dexvx said:
IIRC, it was all Google services need to be bundled together. Which is why phones either use all of Google services or none at all (FireOS/Chinese ecosystem).

And it was Google heavily 'discouraging' third party OS's like Tizen, Ubuntu, and what not.
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Remember Blackberry? OS10 is what started Google down this road as it had the ability to run Android apps (they shimmed the missing services). Google explicitly changed after Jellybean to break this and Amazon.
 
cageymaru said:
I was watching additional coverage and the spokesperson for the EU gave the example of Amazon wanting to use their FireOS on a series of phones. Phone manufacturers wanted to do it, but Google refused to allow the Google Play store onto the devices because of the contracts in the article.
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It's why certain versions of the Android OS (spinoffs) don't have Google apps installed. The Play Store is part of the Google experience.

Essentially, their stance is that if you plan to use the open source part of the OS to brand your own and implement your own app store, you can frig off. I don't blame them. Open Source has strings attached and Amazon is cutting a lot of development hassle by using it for their own OS. Why should they reap all the benefits?
 
All phones in the EU should default to that popular EU search engine, what is it called again?
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
I'm not sure where they draw the line. I think it might be a little different because Apple makes their own devices and don't have any third parties using their OS. That and Apple Maps is not a money making service they sell. It exists only as a service on their devices. Correct? (I don't know for sure, I haven't used anything Apple since before Apple Maps existed)
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As far as I know it only exists in iOS.

Would Apple banning google maps not run them afoul though. I know that didn’t stick because of the backlash. I just don’t think I understand the ruling.

Apple maps still sucks. Waze (google) forever.
 
People rip Google as Evil cause they are too big. Same thing is done to Microsoft. I don't see this same logic applied to the EU. There doesn't appear to be any straight lines in the UE. All crooked as hell and seems their sole purpose it to collect bucks. Where does their money go? Follow the money. I'm no particular fan of Google or Microsoft (fuck Apple) but without them our lives would be quite a bit different (in spite of what the EU says). When I think of the EU, I don't see an honest one in the bunch. People say the US is full of crooked politicians (it is), but we ain't got shit next to the EU.
 
Mike89 said:
People rip Google as Evil cause they are too big. Same thing is done to Microsoft. I don't see this same logic applied to the EU. There doesn't appear to be any straight lines in the UE. All crooked as hell and seems their sole purpose it to collect bucks. Where does their money go? Follow the money. I'm no particular fan of Google or Microsoft (fuck Apple) but without them our lives would be quite a bit different (in spite of what the EU says). When I think of the EU, I don't see an honest one in the bunch. People say the US is full of crooked politicians (it is), but we ain't got shit next to the EU.
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Corruption in the EU and monopoly abuse by Google are not mutually exclusive.
 
gamerk2 said:
And now you highlight the real reason behind all the complaining: The fact it's the EU that handed down the fine. To you, this isn't about Google or the law at all; it's about the EU and how you hate it for "reasons". You admit Google is in the wrong, but no, it's the EU handing down the fine so screw those guys and let Google do what they want, since it doesn't directly affect you.

There's plenty of anti-EU bias here, but it's getting ridiculous at this point. The law is damn clear: Google is in the wrong.
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Sorry, I was being a scarastic asshole with that post trying to sound like half the people posting. I did not mean for my post to be taken seriously. Like you said laws and clear and they are in the wrong
 
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Troz said:
Ah, but that wasn't forced. That was a check cut to Apple for 3 Billion dollars to make that happen.
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Right. My point is Apple isn’t “forcing” its own services in every aspect of the their devices like a google. I disagree with the ruling though.
 
Exavior said:
Sorry, I was being a scarastic asshole with that post trying to sound like half the people posting. I did not mean for my post to be taken seriously. Like you said laws and clear and they are in the wrong
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Nowadays, you need to explicitly put the /s in. You can't be sure anymore.
 
It's too bad POTUS Trump doesn't have the unilateral power to pull the US out of the EU and let these fuckers deal with Russia by themselves!!
 
MickeyBailey said:
I mean this is just out of hand. As long as the user can change the services they choose to use, what's the problem?
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How do I change/remove the Google search bar on my phones home aka. top screen, after all I have freedom to choose, right?

The problem is:

If the manufacturers want to have access to the Google Play store and Google Play services, which are essential and almost impossible to leave out, they have to bundle unrelated Google services i.e. what does Google Maps have to do with the play store?
Try having a look at what ars uncovered years ago: link to arstechnica.com

Why would you looks for a navigation application in the Play store, when you got one pre-installed with your phone?
Google is actively preventing competitors from getting their map/music/browsers etc. onto Android by forcing the manufacturers to bundle Googles application in order to get access to the Play store and Google services.

EDIT:
Cleaned up link + here's another info on how Google controls the Android experience: link to arstechnica.com

BTW.
The fine is way out of proportion, but Google deserves getting hit with a fine to remind them they should stop abusing their position.
 
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Google will appeal this into 2030 if this appeal fails. It's what businesses do.
 
DPI said:
Except this isn't actually what's happening. They're not telling anyone to do anything. AOSP doesn't require Google's app store. It's an opt in.
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Have you ran ASOP recently? I ran it a year ago and it was a steaming pile of sh1t. But more important, try installing some popular apps without Google services and watch in spectacular fashion as it fails.

The equivalent would be if Microsoft ships the Windows kernel (as an OS) without win32api support. And to use the win32api, OEM's would have to install whatever software Microsoft wanted at their whim AND not install any competitor software.

DPI said:
But it's also Google's intellectual property, thats cost them billions over a decade+ to cultivate it to where it is today, and make it so compelling that third parties actually bitch that nobody can live without it and Android is worthless without it.

In other words there are companies riding the Android gravy train that feel Google should give their IP away and make their app store and firstparty apps open source to be hacked up any way a third party sees fit. If you strip away all the irrational Google hate in threads like these, then this is what this comes down to.
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So? Microsoft cultivated the PC market *and* mainstream server as it is today. Does that mean every competing company should listen to the whims of Microsoft?

What if Microsoft said, hey we don't need OGL or Vulkan, we already have DirectX. Furthermore, if any app developer makes an OGL/Vulkan game, they are prohibited from making a DX version. You know what would happen? The death of gaming on Linux (and possibly desktop in general) and Mac.

And don't get me started with all the bullshit Google has done to competitor smartphone OS's like Windows Phone or Blackberry. Granted those two had their fair share of problems (execution side), but Google liked to fuck with their API just to fuck over Microsoft and Blackberry. Someone mentioned in this thread the sh1t Google pulled by arbitrarily 'updating' Google services. On the Windows Phone front, Google literally blacklisted mobile IE (but hey, you spoof the browser meta to Chrome, and it works!). Now Google is doing similar sh1t to Mozilla Firefox (and everything magically works when you spoof browser meta to Chrome!).

DPI said:
It seems Google's mistake was open sourcing Android to begin with. Because Apples iOS is completely locked to Apple hardware, and they'd sue anyone that got iOS running on any non Apple device. Yet nobody's outraged that iOS or the apple App Store are not being made available to third parties or third party hardware.
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Android would be complete and utter sh1t and would fail to take off without open sourcing. Tons of hardware driver support come from IHV's.

At first Google was very open and doing no evil. But once they got dominant market share, they just pulled a full Jekyll and Hyde.
 
d8lock said:
That's no excuse to wear a damn bath robe to a press conference.
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Your right she should be naked. /sarcasm Jeez. Do you belittle anyone who dresses differently than you? Grow up.

Rob94hawk said:
It's too bad POTUS Trump doesn't have the unilateral power to pull the US out of the EU and let these fuckers deal with Russia by themselves!!
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Um the US is not part of the EU...it being the EUROPEAN Union
 
Twisted Kidney said:
Consumer protection is bullshit, we all need to be sacrificed to the machine for the greater glory of the machine.

People can't name a single occasion where a lack of consumer protection ever harmed consumers except the times that it did, but those don't count.

EMBRACE THE OLIGARCHY!

Democracy was a mistake. Rules should only apply to poor people.
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You are right about one thing: Rules should only apply to poor people.
 
kju1 said:
Your right she should be naked. /sarcasm Jeez. Do you belittle anyone who dresses differently than you? Grow up.



Um the US is not part of the EU...it being the EUROPEAN Union
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If somebody showed up to a formal event in a bathrobe, then yes, I would.
 
Google- Get off my lawn!
EU- All your lawn be ours! Now change the lawn gnomes to pink flamingos and STFU!
 
kju1 said:
Your right she should be naked. /sarcasm Jeez. Do you belittle anyone who dresses differently than you? Grow up.



Um the US is not part of the EU...it being the EUROPEAN Union
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No shit sherlock. Our troops I was referring too.
 
gamerk2 said:
Nowadays, you need to explicitly put the /s in. You can't be sure anymore.
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True. I was doing to good of a job imitating some of the people here to come off as fully joking. I just find it... I guess partly funny... how if Google or Apple does something, no matter what it is, a large group here will fight tooth and nail that it is fine. Google records everything you do? That is fine because it is Google and so who cards if they track everything you do we have nothing to hide anyway. They violate some law or regulation somewhere? That is fine, they should get a pass because that law or regulation is bullshit anyway. Microsoft does even 1/4th of what those company do or EA does something even slightly wrong and suddenly fuck that company those bastards deserve everything they got and much more.
 
Lakados said:
Google holds significantly more power than Microsoft did in the 90’s. The bigger distinction between Apple and Google in this ruling is apple doesn’t integrate a search engine into their OS you can freely choose it furthermore they don’t monetize user data which is the majority of googles income.
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Yes they do. Why people think they don't I have no idea.

Big data is a big part of Apple, Apples user data was also considered the most data rich, even more so than Google's....Let that sink in for a second.
 
Just because US anti monopoly laws are in shambles there's no need to be jealous about the EU taking the fight with the mega corps.

All hail to the private surveillance monopolies, that just wants to create a better world for all of us.
 
NeghVar said:
Was this a cut off from just Google Play on that device, or ALL Google services on that device? As long as there are easily accessible alternatives, I have no problem. As a consumer, it is your choice and your responsibility to weigh in on the pros and cons of going with Android or an alternative such as FireOS. To me, for it to be monopolistic I believe that there should be no alternative that is easily accessible by most people, or if there is, it is extremely limited in matching features. (excluding colluding companies)
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https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/19/...xplainer-play-store-android-search-fine-apple

From the wording:

Google has allegedly blocked phone makers from creating devices that run forked versions of Android. In other words, in order to get any Google apps — including the Play Store and Google search — phone makers had to agree not to develop or sell any devices at all that ran on an Android fork (like Amazon’s Fire OS for tablets).

It was all or nothing. You get the entire Google stack or you don't. Furthermore, it was even more nefarious. If the OEM did so much as sold any *other* devices with Android fork (e.g. Fire OS), Google would blacklist them as well.

It would be if Intel made a deal with Dell that they not sell any AMD chips if they wanted Intel chips. Oh wait, didn't they get fined for that?

Master_shake_ said:
germany must need a loan

EU is cancer.

google cuts off EU.

hilarity ensues.
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And then the EU will develop an Android fork like the China ecosystem, completely devoid of Google services. That would be great.
 
Exavior said:
True. I was doing to good of a job imitating some of the people here to come off as fully joking. I just find it... I guess partly funny... how if Google or Apple does something, no matter what it is, a large group here will fight tooth and nail that it is fine. Google records everything you do? That is fine because it is Google and so who cards if they track everything you do we have nothing to hide anyway. They violate some law or regulation somewhere? That is fine, they should get a pass because that law or regulation is bullshit anyway. Microsoft does even 1/4th of what those company do or EA does something even slightly wrong and suddenly fuck that company those bastards deserve everything they got and much more.
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The distinction is that Google has never made a secret of its free online services being supported by advertising. They've said it from day one. It's paid services like GSuite however do not do any data collection for advertising or selling to third parties. On smartphones, people have decided they're willing to give up a little privacy to gain convenience - free Navigation software, photo hosting, free email, etc. I personally find them bland, but apparently the firstparty Google apps are so compelling that this thread exists and the EU is crying that they and the Play Store are so good that AOSP can't live without them.

Microsoft on the other hand, has been completely disingenuous - they first tried the "Scroogled" campaign which backfired, and then went full "if you can't beat em, join em" retard, by force-converting hundreds of millions of PCs to Windows 10, many without user consent - or through trickery and confusion (GWX "red X" debacle). Most users that gave consent didn't realize what they were in for (EULA stating that every keystroke could be collected) and that allowing Windows 10 to install itself was bringing in a trojan horse onto their PC and home network.

So you had Windows customers waking up one morning to a "Welcome to Windows 10" screen for software they never asked for, with Full data collection mode enabled and siphoning thousands of personally identifiable datapoints with no off switch. And unlike Google, Microsoft never bothered creating any killer, must-have "apps", programs or features to bargain with users "okay I'm trading some privacy because this new feature/app is worth it". They didn't bother on windows phone either which is why it died.

Microsoft simply decided they were justified in hijacking and force-converting PCs to Windows 10 for data collection because "everyone else is doing it".
 
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Axehandler said:
But apple can FORCE me to install safari and a bunch of apps on their eco system?
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I think it has to do with the fact that Apple owns the IPhone from hardware to OS.
Google was paying/coercing phone manufacturers (Samsung etc) to only allow Google-search.
 
schoolslave said:
I think it has to do with the fact that Apple owns the IPhone from hardware to OS.
Google was paying/coercing phone manufacturers (Samsung etc) to only allow Google-search.
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This isn't true. Google has never stipulated "to only allow Google-search". You've always been able to change default search on Android.

Overall though Google shouldn’t have nearly as many stipulations about what must be installed and where in order to allow GApps, but on the other hand they do and allow much more than practically every other OS developer in terms of allowing apps to take over key interactions on the device.

For a few years now, any app could be used as the system-wide default "Assist" app, "Browser", "SMS", etc, and Google’s default app could be completely disabled on the device. This is completely in contrast with iOS apps like Messages and Maps, which can be disabled, but there is no way to use a different one as the default (the idiocy of selecting an address on an iOS device and having iOS tell you the only way you can look up that address is by enabling Apple Maps-when there are 2+ alternative navigation apps available-is astounding).
 
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Rob94hawk said:
No shit sherlock. Our troops I was referring too.
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Now thats an even stupider comment. You do know why our troops are over there right? You know what force projection is right?

And you do know he can recall troops right?
 
kju1 said:
Now thats an even stupider comment. You do know why our troops are over there right? You know what force projection is right?

And you do know he can recall troops right?
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Congress will not allow Trump to pull out troops. Try to keep up with current events so you don't sound like a fucking retard next time you post.
 
So if the ruling stands a Microsoft phone based on android will be possible. Imagine a phone where you can have play store, Microsoft store, Amazon store and independent stores in the same phone. This is what could be possible, when you break monopoly.
 
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