Mom’s Defense of “Cheating” Fortnite Kid Fails

Megalith

Megalith

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A judge has ruled that Epic can continue its copyright infringement lawsuit against a 14-year-old Fortnite cheater despite his mother arguing that the EULA wasn’t legally binding, nor was he given consent for playing the game. Epic reasoned that “minors can’t void contractual obligations while keeping the benefits of the same contract.” Thanks cageymaru.

The accused cheater now has two weeks to file a formal response to the complaint. If that doesn’t happen, Epic Games is likely to ask for a default judgment. Based on previous cases, the game publisher is not likely to demand a high damages claim. Instead, its main goal appears to be to stop the cheaters’ infringing activities, and prevent others from doing the same.
 
A minor in the US is unable to legally sign a contract accept for essential items.

Is Epic seriously going to argue they are essential on par with food, water and shelter ?

This seems like PR no company should be seeking no matter what bad behaviour a 14 year old got up to in your game.
 
So their counter argument is that he can't void the contract if he is utilizing the benefits that the contract gives (playing the game). E.g. you can't have one without the other.

This one will be interesting. It puts the contract law (14 year old entering contract w/o consent) against the contract itself.

This is a conflict that has only come about because of ToS/EULA contracts and their "easy acceptance" without verification. A traditional contract would have required verification of ID and also the parents to sign off.
 
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ChadD said:
A minor in the US is unable to legally sign a contract accept for essential items.

Is Epic seriously going to argue they are essential on par with food, water and shelter ?

This seems like PR no company should be seeking no matter what bad behaviour a 14 year old got up to in your game.
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They probably figure this PR will outweigh the PR from the hordes of kids crying about them "doing nothing to curb cheating". Either way, I find it absolutely hilarious that we now live in a world where 14 year old kids are being hauled off to court for cheating in a 100% fake digital video game. I'm not sure what planet I live on anymore.

I hope Blizzard doesn't retroactively send me to death row for the SOJs I ganked from nubs on Diablo 2 back in 2001 when I was an edgy teen.
 
ChadD said:
This seems like PR no company should be seeking no matter what bad behaviour a 14 year old got up to in your game.
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The PR I'm getting is cheat in our game and we'll take you to task even if you are a little 14 year-old shit, I don't play Fortnite, but I sure enjoy their stance (be nice if Take2 did the same for GTAO).
 
After the teen, identified as C.R. in the suit, had his video taken down on a complaint by Epic, he filed a counterstrike with YouTube stating "I DID NOTING RONG" and later uploaded a cheat demo again. When his mother, Lauren Rogers, told the court the defendant was 14, unable to consent to contracts, and not authorized by her to play Fortnite, she concluded he was not bound to the EULA.
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source: https://boingboing.net/2018/05/14/how-a-14-year-old-fortnite-che.html

The dipshit apple doesn't fall far from the dipshit tree.

 
Is Epic also going after those YouTube ads that have that app for cheating and adding money for free? Seems like much much much more of a problem then a 14 year old...
 
I don't play forknife, but I've long suspected that large studios have secret side projects where they sell hacks to their own games for more income on the side. What a great cover story, they get the PR attention by demonizing a cheater (instead of people profiting off the cheating).
 
haz_mat said:
I don't play forknife, but I've long suspected that large studios have secret side projects where they sell hacks to their own games for more income on the side. What a great cover story, they get the PR attention by demonizing a cheater (instead of people profiting off the cheating).
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I highly doubt the average person is going to see Epic as a knight in shining armor for taking legal action against a 14 year old who cheated in a video game. This bubble of ours has become quite ridiculous.

Just IP ban him and patch the hack, finito.
 
ChadD said:
A minor in the US is unable to legally sign a contract accept for essential items.

Is Epic seriously going to argue they are essential on par with food, water and shelter ?

This seems like PR no company should be seeking no matter what bad behaviour a 14 year old got up to in your game.
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Eh wouldn't surprise me if the suit goes after the holder of the cell/internet account not necessarily the person who installed the game. That said, you don't need to sign a contract to be in violation of copyright infringement do you?
 
Azphira said:
Civil parental liability. The son and the Eula don't matter. Mom gets to pay the default settlement.

Save money by teaching your children morality.
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A voice of reason.

Good for the judge too. Parents - parent your freaking kids or take responsibility for their shitty actions. Also after getting this judgement and the little shit does it again he's going to be even in a bigger world of hurt, which is an additional win for Epic.

Sheesh. Now get off my lawn so I can yell at this cloud in peace.
 
So, which of you had your parents teach you about the virtues of not cheating in video games, or have parents who even know anything about video gaming and the existence of cheating in video games?

I think it's absurd to go after the kid's parents over the kid cheating in a game. I also see the potential for this to backfire on Epic, PR-wise and also with a verdict that might demean Epic's hoped-for power of their EULA.


To make sure the kid doesn't void his "contractual obligations" while keeping the benefits of said contract, just ban him from the game.
 
DocNo said:
Also after getting this judgement and the little shit does it again he's going to be even in a bigger world of hurt, which is an additional win for Epic.
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Any sane parent would forbid anything that even sounds or smells like Fortnite after going to court over it.


But you're not wrong. This kid is definitely going to try again, thanks to some combination of parental negligence and sheer persistence.
 
Boohoo, cheating in an internet game. Do those morons at "Epic" think cheating is not going to happen in their online game? They act so surprised & resentful when it happens. Makes me laugh. They're just as bad as the little crybabies who play their silly little game.
 
Delicieuxz said:
So, which of you had your parents teach you about the virtues of not cheating in video games, or have parents who even know anything about video gaming and the existence of cheating in video games?

I think it's absurd to go after the kid's parents over the kid cheating in a game. I also see the potential for this to backfire on Epic, PR-wise and also with a verdict that might demean Epic's hoped-for power of their EULA.


To make sure the kid doesn't void his "contractual obligations" while keeping the benefits of said contract, just ban him from the game.
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Not specifically video games, but I was taught that cheating in general (like board games) and being dishonest were absolutely wrong when growing up.
 
Spidey329 said:
This is a conflict that has only come about because of ToS/EULA contracts and their "easy acceptance" without verification. A traditional contract would have required verification of ID and also the parents to sign off.
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It would be impossible to verify anyone period less they go to EACH and EVERY players house and verify the person agreeing to it is that person.
 
Tsumi said:
Not specifically video games, but I was taught that cheating in general (like board games) and being dishonest were absolutely wrong when growing up.
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Exactly to argue the parent gets a pass for not teaching their kid cheating is inherently wrong because they might not know shit about video games is ridiculous, now I think epic should be wise here and make their judgment something that is going to both make them want to discipline their kid while also not be large enough to make them want to fight this any longer in court.
 
Judge has ruled Epic can continue pwning teen dirtbags despite the mother swearing up and down her little ****bag is a god damn ****ing angel!
 
haz_mat said:
I don't play forknife, but I've long suspected that large studios have secret side projects where they sell hacks to their own games for more income on the side. What a great cover story, they get the PR attention by demonizing a cheater (instead of people profiting off the cheating).
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That would be incredibly stupid. Games like this lose money due to cheaters and no one is paying millions for "secrets" when it isn't terribly hard for them to bypass current anti-cheat methods.
 
There is a little more to thus than the headlines. Those of you crying "ban him and move on" are unaware Epic has done this. 10 TIMES! After this the dumb shit went on youtube and admitted to all of this. Ya really. All Epic wants is for people like him to stop ruining it for everyone else. Epic's past cases have resulted in injunctions with no financial settlements. That's all they want.

*EDIT*

For got to add; Epic had no idea he was a minor when they filed.
 
TitaniumLizzard said:
There is a little more to thus than the headlines. Those of you crying "ban him and move on" are unaware Epic has done this. 10 TIMES! After this the dumb shit went on youtube and admitted to all of this. Ya really. All Epic wants is for people like him to stop ruining it for everyone else. Epic's past cases have resulted in injunctions with no financial settlements. That's all they want.

*EDIT*

For got to add; Epic had no idea he was a minor when they filed.
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Yeah, that's a big catch of F2P games. Get banned, and you can just create a new email and new account.


In other games, cheaters like this almost pay for the priveledge, as they end up buying the game multiple times. There's a running joke that that's exactly what keeps PubG, CSGO and GTA V (all of which are notorious for cheaters) in the Steam top seller charts.
 
Azphira said:
Civil parental liability. The son and the Eula don't matter. Mom gets to pay the default settlement.

Save money by teaching your children morality.
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prove damages,

especially since the minor can probably prove damages, IE lost account/game
 
d8lock said:
Fuck that kid and his mom. If you read the article you'd realize that this kid is a little shit bag that deserves punishment.
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Agreed. There is so much more to this story than the "Epic sues 14-year old" headlines. Fucking inbreeding. Idiocracy, here we come!
 
ChadD said:
A minor in the US is unable to legally sign a contract accept for essential items.

Is Epic seriously going to argue they are essential on par with food, water and shelter ?

This seems like PR no company should be seeking no matter what bad behaviour a 14 year old got up to in your game.
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Maybe they would argue that the mom should've supervised her kid and that the parents are ultimatly responsible for paying the bill as well, because it's the parents responsibility what they're kids are doing at home.

Looks more like the mom is trying to say she doesn't want to pay damages because a 14 year old can't sign a contract.

FurbySlayer said:
prove damages,

especially since the minor can probably prove damages, IE lost account/game
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That's what the courts are ther for?
Also Epic could claim that people spending money leave because of rampant cheating.

I think to claim such a loss would be quite simple for this particular game.
Proving might seem a bit far fetched though.
 
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Mode13 said:
I find it absolutely hilarious that we now live in a world where 14 year old kids are being hauled off to court for cheating in a 100% fake digital video game. I'm not sure what planet I live on anymore..
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Well I'm sure as his mom would be with him as she is his legal guardian?
And she would ultimatly have to pony up something and the boy just leave his hands from the that one particular game?

Also its the same world that actually hauls a 1 year old toddler in front of an immigration judge.
In Phoenix.
 
haz_mat said:
I don't play forknife, but I've long suspected that large studios have secret side projects where they sell hacks to their own games for more income on the side. What a great cover story, they get the PR attention by demonizing a cheater (instead of people profiting off the cheating).
Click to expand...
I've never heard about that related to FPS games but I've certainly seen that corruption occur in MMORPGs with GMs setting up their own gold/power/item selling websites.
 
It irks me when parents defend their child even though they are dead wrong just for the fact it's their offspring. A child learns nothing on humility or how to act and treat another humanbeing this way. There have aways been people that don't give a fuck about others but in society today there are a lot more than decades past.
 
Is it too much to ask that Epic has a "mobile woodshed" to send, on location and twitch stream, to cheater's households?
 
I am not supporting his actions, but how is cheating copyright infringement? Other such gaming platforms or providers have just banned such players. Blizzard bans your key and email. Steam blacklists your ID. I've never heard of either on suing under copyright infringement for cheating. Excluding developers of cheating apps.

Any word on how much $$$ Epic is demanding?
 
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Epic went after him because he's listed as a support contact on a cheat distribution site. That fact seems to keep being left out of the reporting.
Paragraphs 54 through 59 of https://torrentfreak.com/images/epic2.pdf make it exceedingly clear what the real reason for the suit is:
54. Defendant is listed as a support/help person on AddictedCheats.net, a cheat provider website (the “cheat provider”) that supplies its registered users with cheats and hacks in exchange for money.
55. Defendant encourages others to cheat and to buy subscriptions to support the cheat provider website. He also provides detailed instructions to help cheaters and would-be cheaters obtain and use cheats and hacks from the cheat provider website so that they may use them while playing Fortnite.
56. On information and belief, Defendant writes code for the cheats, which the cheat provider sells to its subscribers.
57. In an effort to adversely impact as many people as possible while playing (and cheating) at Fortnite, Defendant specifically targets streamers. He publicly celebrates in the cheat provider’s discussion channel when he successfully stream snipes, i.e., killing streamers as they stream, by posting comments like “Yes I got them!” and “LOL I f*cked them.”
58. When asked what is the point of doing what he is doing, he responded “Because its [sic] fun to rage and see streamers cry about how loaded they are and then get them stomped anyways”.
59. Defendant holds himself out as a knowledgeable and experienced hacker, bragging in one online discussion channel that he is “a former mod of ownedcore.com” and has “a LONG history of cheating and hacking . . . nothing left to learn here.”
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LodeRunner said:
Epic went after him because he's listed as a support contact on a cheat distribution site. That fact seems to keep being left out of the reporting.
Paragraphs 54 through 59 of https://torrentfreak.com/images/epic2.pdf make it exceedingly clear what the real reason for the suit is:
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Yeah. I think people are assuming this is the old kazaa \ limewire approach of grabbing a rando and making an example. In reality Epic did their research and are only going after the worst of the worst.
 
In my opinion the outcome should be pretty clear.
Either Epic provides proof that parental consent was given and the EULA is applicable, or they act as if the kid never "accepted" the EULA in the first place and thus didn't get access to anything (by revoking his user credentials).
Given that the EULA hasn't been applicable there's little room for Epic to sue the kid for the admittedly bad stuff he's done.
 
Olle P said:
In my opinion the outcome should be pretty clear.
Either Epic provides proof that parental consent was given and the EULA is applicable, or they act as if the kid never "accepted" the EULA in the first place and thus didn't get access to anything (by revoking his user credentials).
Given that the EULA hasn't been applicable there's little room for Epic to sue the kid for the admittedly bad stuff he's done.
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Lol what? The argument is that you can't take the benefits of the contract (e.g. playing the game) without taking the responsibilities of the contract. If a minor went into a restaurant, ordered a meal, they can refuse to pay because minors cannot enter into binding contracts?
 
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