Bitcoin Prices Were Manipulated

Might as well discover that the earth isnt flat as well. It is something most already know but your few believers on the otherside wont listen anyways.

Ive been mining for about a year now, its a scheme and most know it. I just have used what I mined to buy some PC parts on newegg. Not looking for some long term investment or get rich quick, but it does pay for a few upgrades. Not so much lately. Now I mine when I rememeber to turn it on lol. I am less inclined to mine when its hot out because i dont have AC, winter was free cooling for my pc's.
 
thebufenator said:
What's trolling?

This board has quite a bit of screeching about btc and its affect on gaming cards.
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Perhaps this will help.......

Internet troll
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"Trolling" redirects here. For other uses, see Troll (disambiguation).
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In Internet slang, a troll (/troʊl, trɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement.
 
daglesj said:
Yeah I finally got round to watching 'The Big Short' last week. It's a rigged game from start to finish.
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The book is even better than the movie, as it goes into far more detail. One of the main people gets pissed off that Goldman controlled the price for one of their securities, and how it somehow didn't start to go down until Goldman finally got rid of their position.

As for Bitcoin, as with other people, not surprised one bit.
 
daglesj said:
Yeah I finally got round to watching 'The Big Short' last week. It's a rigged game from start to finish.
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If you liked that you'll love the wolf of wallstreet. It had me in tears and stitches the whole movie.
 
Stimpy88 said:
I must admit, if Bitcoin crashed, there would eventually be a glut of high end graphics cards going cheap! You won’t catch me moaning about that! Hehehe
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A-Freaking-Men and a hallelujah to that friendo. I want me some Vega64 [vega hate deflector activated] on the cheap, hurry up miners!
 
seanreisk said:
Dispersion gravity is a form of manipulation, but it is the idea that dense pockets of a type of wealth can affect the value of that wealth without overt action. First used to describe the controlled valuation of diamonds through the New York diamond market by controlling the release of diamonds to different industries.

Wealth dilution is the big thing that crypto fanboys don't see. Suppose you had a small country of 100,000 people, and that country decided to mint one million gold coins as its official currency. Then someone stood up and said, "I'm going to make a currency out of wood chips that I have autographed. Bring me two wood chips of perfect size, and if I like them I will sign them, and I'll take one and you can have one, and you can spend them as money." Eventually he did this so often that people started trading the wood chips as money. If they are generally recognized as a form of money, and he signs a number equal to the number of the gold coins, then the value of the gold coins should drop by half - the nation had one million gold coins as a representation of its internal wealth, and now it has one million gold coins and one million wood chips. This is bitcoin - a currency created from nothing that represents nothing but is valued at levels great enough to buy houses and cars.


I'm not saying that the age of currency unregulated by national or international money markets isn't coming. We all know it's coming, it's a canon of science fiction. But bitcoin isn't it, it isn't fast enough, it isn't really mobile enough, it isn't trustworthy, and it doesn't represent any form of value. I'm not even against bitcoin, but I am against thinkers who only see the current effect and so champion it without understanding that the emperor has no clothes.
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You perfectly describe virtually all fiat currency to date. Paper printed out of thin air, Federal reserves supply via digital transfer new never counted before currency to national banks. Money printed up fresh - not pulled from some dark vault and dropped over Iran, billions of dollars. Fiat money, dollar is more an act of faith, definitely not backed by anything tangible. If people accept that then no wonder Cryptocurrency is also accepted. Now Tether is backed by $, one for one, which is laughably or sadily not backed by much at all.

Tokenizing is a self value transfer of wealth where you attached a real item, be it digital or an actual physical item such as a house to the token. It is actually the purest form of money today that has real assets attached to it. No fiat currency I know of even approaches that.

2 billion folks have no or little access to the banking system making fiat currency a poor choice, from corrupt governments to very little government people are left out, no means to trade for their welfare. Yet over half have cell phones or access to one, digital device that can communicate to the world. Getting a money system that is reliable and that can be used safely and securely will help alleviate that problem and help not millions but hundreds of millions of people to advance themselves.

One reason why Bitcoin tends to control all the other altcoins is that to exchange the alt coins, cash them out etc. one has to use Bitcoin for the most part at the exchanges. This artificially inflates Bitcoin pricing due to use and limits the Alt-coins value. Bitcoin is like the $ is to the world which actually is probably one of the worst choices at that.

Like Automobile manufacturers, video cards, CPU makers - you have many and once the dust settles you have a few - 95% if not more of Cryptocurrency will probably not be around in 10 years. Those that have inherited value due to being attached to something viable will probably survive (the best ones that is, which ones is anyone's guess, my guess is Ravencoin, Ethereum) . The ones that fail will not necessarily be scams, more like just did not cut the mustard or the market did not accept them or the team just was not the best even with the best of intentions. Of course there are scams but so far how many of those are there in percentage?

Bitcoin was an idea, representing a form of freedom, it works, is reliable and things like that always have value.
 
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Mode13 said:
A-Freaking-Men and a hallelujah to that friendo. I want me some Vega64 [vega hate deflector activated] on the cheap, hurry up miners!
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Vega 64 - $559 at Newegg, your money is just as good as mine, your brain is just as capable in finding and buying it as well. Wait, I bought the last one :p. The coin it will make will buy me a Lambo. Kidding honestly.

Vega 56, Nano - $449 at Newegg, last I checked back in stock.
 
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bugleyman said:
Good for you. I'm curious, though: in 2008, had you personally issued a large number of sub-prime mortgages? Did the fact that you hadn't somehow make you immune to the downturn?
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Actually yes - I'm not dumb enough to lend money to people that can't pay it back. Hence I was quite immune to that whole shakeup. Trying to understand your angle here though - are you trying to say the adoption of digital assets as a thing is personally impacting your life outside of crypto directly? The current market wide value is right under 300B currently, a literal drop in the bucket when viewed on the macro level of world economies. Ive been through economic collapses, energy busts (twice), and a few crypto busts. Its not hard to weather a storm when you know what to look for and how to prepare.

Mortgages, bitcoin, auto loans, whatever your poison is... the root problem is people too stupid to play within their comfort zone (aka ability to pay or understanding of the reality of the situation) There's no shortage of idiots who have to have the latest phone, the latest car, and will beg, borrow, and steal to get it.
 
More terrible work and clickbait by hardocp. Title says "Bitcoin Prices Were Manipulated", article says "may have been manipulated".
 
This is ingenious - buy play money using other play money and make the value sky high without spending a dime.
 
collegeboy69us said:
Actually yes - I'm not dumb enough to lend money to people that can't pay it back. Hence I was quite immune to that whole shakeup. Trying to understand your angle here though - are you trying to say the adoption of digital assets as a thing is personally impacting your life outside of crypto directly? The current market wide value is right under 300B currently, a literal drop in the bucket when viewed on the macro level of world economies. Ive been through economic collapses, energy busts (twice), and a few crypto busts. Its not hard to weather a storm when you know what to look for and how to prepare.

Mortgages, bitcoin, auto loans, whatever your poison is... the root problem is people too stupid to play within their comfort zone (aka ability to pay or understanding of the reality of the situation) There's no shortage of idiots who have to have the latest phone, the latest car, and will beg, borrow, and steal to get it.
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My "angle" is simply that a few bad actors can cause a good deal of pain for everyone. While you may believe you were "quite immune" to the effects of the recession (which is horseshit unless you are 100% self-sufficient off the grid someplace...but whatever), if you had any equities and/or real estate you would have seen their value plunge.

Now I grant that Bitcoin is presently trivial compared to the sub-prime mortgage market, but I suspect that would be of little comfort to the people impacted.
 
bugleyman said:
My "angle" is simply that a few bad actors can cause a good deal of pain for everyone. While you may believe you were "quite immune" to the effects of the recession (which is horseshit unless you are 100% self-sufficient off the grid someplace...but whatever), if you had any equities and/or real estate you would have seen their value plunge.

Now I grant that Bitcoin is presently trivial compared to the sub-prime mortgage market, but I suspect that would be of little comfort to the people impacted.
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That only really matters if you are depending on them for your regular income. If you just have them, then their value plunging doesn't really hurt you, as long as they don't become permanently worthless (a company you invested in goes under, for instance). What would hurt is if you had lots of loans and lost your job or had your pay reduced.
 
noko said:
You perfectly describe virtually all fiat currency to date. Paper printed out of thin air, Federal reserves supply via digital transfer new never counted before currency to national banks. Money printed up fresh - not pulled from some dark vault and dropped over Iran, billions of dollars. Fiat money, dollar is more an act of faith, definitely not backed by anything tangible.
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That's not quite accurate. The US dollar is essentially backed by military force. It's the world currency and (maybe because of) the official OPEC currency, hence the term petrodollar. We sure as hell have military bases and politicking going in any oil producing country we can. These countries can't just say "no" to using the USD for the sale of oil without big repercussions and the world still runs on oil. So yes, it is still fiat country and not backed on 1:1 ratio to anything, but it IS backed by an enormous military presence and economic / political strong-arming.

I'm not arguing that's a stable long term position, but you're making it sound like it's backed by NOTHING, which isn't true at all.
 
Nobu said:
That only really matters if you are depending on them for your regular income. If you just have them, then their value plunging doesn't really hurt you, as long as they don't become permanently worthless (a company you invested in goes under, for instance). What would hurt is if you had lots of loans and lost your job or had your pay reduced.
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Yes, that is true, so long as cryptos aren't big enough to affect the economy at large. But if they're ever going to be anything close to the universal store of value that advocates seem to be hoping for, then surely they must become so?

Hmmm...is it even possible to design the technology so as not to encourage bad behavior when market participants are anonymous? If so, I don't think we've quite cracked it.
 
bbqrooster said:
So smart guy, can you tell us what information you use to read this type of asshatery? Why didn't you come out with a paper at that time telling all of us this manipulation? Your delusion is just over the top. I have seen many people like you during the dotcom boom, denial, denial, denial.
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Places to find info....

One that comes to mind quickly is to follow Jonh McAffee on twitter and anything he starts talking up on his feed. That is a pump and dump or straight up scam. "Hate that guy"

Other thing is do some TA (Technical Analysis) on the markets and you can read what is a good bull run, a pump and dumps or artificial price inflation. (and use that info in your favor)

There are many ways to read the information available on the market as well as a lot of very smart people that know what they hell they are talking about to follow that help you avoid this type of "Asshatery". The information is out there if you just take the time and find it.

(FYI, The real issue with Tether/Bitfinex is they told the SEC to suck it and that is what started this whole pissing match. Any smart investor in Crypto knows what Tether is about.)

As far as coming out with a paper. Why the would I do that as I know how to invest and anyone that invests in anything should know what it is all about. It is not my job nor my responsibility to tell other people what to do or how to manage their money. They are adults and should know how to the do that on their own. As with anyone looking to invest in anything. Only invest what you can afford to lose. Do not borrow money, take out a second mortgage, or personal loan to invest. Never invest in anything you don't fully understand or have never research. Finally never invest in anything thinking you are going to get rich. Smart/rich investors did not get rich off of one investment. They spread it over many investments and play the numbers. These are the basic rules of investing. Investing in anything is a gamble and no different than you throwing your money on the craps table in Vegas.

I have invested in the stock market and cyrpto for many years and while I have made money at it. I have equally lost money. It is a hobby for me, I enjoy it and make a little money while doing it. That is far as I am ever going to go into investing money.
 
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USD prices are manipulated... whats the point here? Big banks and the media hold hands as they unite our species into debt.
 
Kainzo said:
USD prices are manipulated... whats the point here? Big banks and the media hold hands as they unite our species into debt.
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The big issue is the banks and financial institutes are not the ones making the money off the price manipulation so they are crying about it. Banks are scared of crypto and how it is making them lose the strangle hold on the worlds finances. This is also is why most block or charge heavy fees when purchasing Crypto now using a credit card or debit card.

Friend of mine bought crypto using his debit card a month ago. His credit union closed his account and said it was because of illegal or unlawful activities on his account and was in breach of their ToS. Funny thing is he is a business litigation lawyer and is having a heyday with them right now because there was nothing in their latest ToS about crypto purchase being not allowed.
 
tetris42 said:
That's not quite accurate. The US dollar is essentially backed by military force. It's the world currency and (maybe because of) the official OPEC currency, hence the term petrodollar. We sure as hell have military bases and politicking going in any oil producing country we can. These countries can't just say "no" to using the USD for the sale of oil without big repercussions and the world still runs on oil. So yes, it is still fiat country and not backed on 1:1 ratio to anything, but it IS backed by an enormous military presence and economic / political strong-arming.

I'm not arguing that's a stable long term position, but you're making it sound like it's backed by NOTHING, which isn't true at all.
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That is the first I heard of that, $ is a fiat currency which means:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money said:
Fiat money is a currency without intrinsic value that has been established as money, often by government regulation. Fiat money does not have use value, and has value only because a government maintains its value, or because parties engaging in exchange agree on its value.[1] It was introduced as an alternative to commodity money and representative money. Commodity money is created from a good, often a precious metal such as gold or silver, which has uses other than as a medium of exchange (such a good is called a commodity). Representative money is similar to fiat money, but it represents a claim on a commodity (which can be redeemed to a greater or lesser extent).[2][3][note 1]

The first use of fiat money was recorded in China around 1000 AD. Since then, it has been used by various countries, usually concurrently with commodity currencies. Fiat money started to dominate in the 20th century. Since the decoupling of the US dollar from gold by Richard Nixon in 1971, a system of national fiat currencies has been used globally, often with freely floating exchange rates between the national currencies.
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Dollar is back by belief in those that use it, accept it has value etc. It has no other true backing. So making money out of thin air rings a bell, the dollar and virtually all other accepted currency are exactly that. Now having a stable, just, powerful with great people can make the fiat currency more desirable and acceptable. Military power used to dominate, dictate etc. could have an opposite effect on the value of a fiat currency. I would disagree about premise that our dollar is backed by military force.
 
noko said:
That is the first I heard of that, $ is a fiat currency which means:

​
Dollar is back by belief in those that use it, accept it has value etc. It has no other true backing. So making money out of thin air rings a bell, the dollar and virtually all other accepted currency are exactly that. Now having a stable, just, powerful with great people can make the fiat currency more desirable and acceptable. Military power used to dominate, dictate etc. could have an opposite effect on the value of a fiat currency. I would disagree about premise that our dollar is backed by military force.
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I had a typo, but I acknowledged it was fiat currency. As for disagreeing that it's backed by military force, I think you just aren't aware of how our money works. We have over 800 military bases in 70 different countries around the world and have heavy influence in OPEC countries. If you want to raise crops or get anything from point A to point B, you need oil. In most of the world, in order to buy or sell oil from the source, you need US dollars. You mentioned how Nixon went off the gold standard in 1971. Guess when USD started became the currency of OPEC?

It's not as overt as something like "use US dollars or we'll bomb you." It's more like you cut great deals with oil producing countries, establish a strong military presence in their area, influence their local government if not install your own people via proxy, etc. As long as oil interests are secured, that's all that's needed. You can "disagree" about it all you want, but people can disagree about the world being round too.
 
SGTGimpy said:
It is no different than the price manipulation that occurs in the Stock Market despite all the "Regulation" that is in place. It is par for the course for any type of investments and if you're a good investor. You learn to read this type of asshatery and either run from it or jump in while you can to get your piece of it.
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I haveto disagree here. Bitcoin moves the entire crypto market, it isn't pegged to actualy currency. USDT is printed by bitfinex out of thin air and then they used it to manipute the entire market. Yes is there manipulation in stock market? Yes likely but not to the scale and not even the same. To justify it as saying its the same is not right. Its comparing apples to oranges. Bitfinex and tether alone can jack the market and pump the entire thing. This was very well evident. I can bet bitfinex is going to crash this market at the end when the authorities find a way to get to them. I can promise those running tether and bitfinex made shit load of money and they could care less. I am all for crypto but bitfinex and tether need to die and we would be better for it. I am pretty sure one day tether is going to blow up in everyone's face.
 
tetris42 said:
I had a typo, but I acknowledged it was fiat currency. As for disagreeing that it's backed by military force, I think you just aren't aware of how our money works. We have over 800 military bases in 70 different countries around the world and have heavy influence in OPEC countries. If you want to raise crops or get anything from point A to point B, you need oil. In most of the world, in order to buy or sell oil from the source, you need US dollars. You mentioned how Nixon went off the gold standard in 1971. Guess when USD started became the currency of OPEC?

It's not as overt as something like "use US dollars or we'll bomb you." It's more like you cut great deals with oil producing countries, establish a strong military presence in their area, influence their local government if not install your own people via proxy, etc. As long as oil interests are secured, that's all that's needed. You can "disagree" about it all you want, but people can disagree about the world being round too.
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The # of bases are going down, with your theory the dollar value would go down. The military was dramatically reduced over the last decade - dollar? Not much real bearing other then showing that the country is some what stable or protected. While there is some influence - it is not back by military force. First time I ever heard it put that way, never heard any government entity even remotely indicating that, propagated that thought etc. One reason why the dollar is still around after being tremendously diluted (printing or transferring etc. out of thin air) is other countries are doing it worst.
 
noko said:
The # of bases are going down, with your theory the dollar value would go down. The military was dramatically reduced over the last decade - dollar? Not much real bearing other then showing that the country is some what stable or protected. While there is some influence - it is not back by military force. First time I ever heard it put that way, never heard any government entity even remotely indicating that, propagated that thought etc. One reason why the dollar is still around after being tremendously diluted (printing or transferring etc. out of thin air) is other countries are doing it worst.
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It's not a 1:1, it's a slow correlation over time. One base gone doesn't translate to much, that's kind of like saying shutting down one school means education is now worse whereas that's statistically not significant you have to look at it overall over time. In other words, it could be we only need 200 bases to influence OPEC, it's not a simple thing to measure. More generally means more influence, but past a certain point it could just be redundant also.

Plus, you talk about dramatic reduction, but even at our WORST, we're spending 3x on our military as much as China (a country with 4x our population), and over 9x as much as Russia. So our "reduction" is still far, far more than any other country ever spends and leaves it only the most influential military in history. You keep talking about how this is the first time you've ever heard of this concept, I suggest you look up the concept of the petrodollar, there might be a lot of history you're unaware of. Again, it's not a coincidence USD became the currency of OPEC the same time we went off the gold standard.
 
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tetris42 said:
It's not a 1:1, it's a slow correlation over time. One base gone doesn't translate to much, that's kind of like saying shutting down one school means education is now worse whereas that's statistically not significant you have to look at it overall over time. In other words, it could be we only need 200 bases to influence OPEC, it's not a simple thing to measure. More generally means more influence, but past a certain point it could just be redundant also.

Plus, you talk about dramatic reduction, but even at our WORST, we're spending 3x on our military as much as China (a country with 4x our population), and over 9x as much as Russia. So our "reduction" is still far, far more than any other country ever spends and leaves it only the most influential military in history. You keep talking about how this is the first time you've ever heard of this concept, I suggest you look up the concept of the petrodollar, there might be a lot of history you're unaware of. Again, it's not a coincidence USD became the currency of OPEC the same time we went off the gold standard.
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So then Russia currency should be the #2 currency in the world with your theory. In fact better than the dollar since they have more nucs. Also Sweden is close to becoming cashless:
https://www.thenational.ae/business/sweden-leads-way-to-a-cashless-world-1.710321

Fiat currency, which is indeed most currencies including the US dollar has no commodity or asset associated with it - no different than Bitcoin in other words. When folks talk about imaginary money or monopoly money they are describing well most fiat currencies in existence today.
 
noko said:
So then Russia currency should be the #2 currency in the world with your theory. In fact better than the dollar since they have more nucs. Also Sweden is close to becoming cashless:
https://www.thenational.ae/business/sweden-leads-way-to-a-cashless-world-1.710321

Fiat currency, which is indeed most currencies including the US dollar has no commodity or asset associated with it - no different than Bitcoin in other words. When folks talk about imaginary money or monopoly money they are describing well most fiat currencies in existence today.
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You can’t compare $ to a bitcoin. It’s not correct. $ is $ it doesn’t fluctuate. Now could it crash and your money be worthless, yea it could but that would be like if there was major chaos in the world. If bitcoin was guaranteed a certain amount then yea you could say that. I love crypto but I gotta call it what it is. It’s value is what others are willing to pay for it and last year tether/bitfinex pumped the shit out of it by printing tether at will and distributing them across exchanges to pump price. Bitcoin is more like a stock it’s what people are willing to pay for it. Nothing else. Regulations will be good for crypto, it will bring it to mainstreams and lot of pump and dump coins need to die first though. Lot of projects coming up every damn day taking money via icos that might never pan out.
 
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Stimpy88 said:
I must admit, if Bitcoin crashed, there would eventually be a glut of high end graphics cards going cheap! You won’t catch me moaning about that! Hehehe
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If Bitcoin crashed, there would be exactly 0 more cheap cards on the market because BITCOIN CANNOT BE MINED BY GRAPHIC CARDS.
Damn, you couldn't mind Bitcoin with GPUs for YEARS, it's mid 2018 and people still hang on this shit.
Educate yourselves before commenting.
 
Nebell said:
If Bitcoin crashed, there would be exactly 0 more cheap cards on the market because BITCOIN CANNOT BE MINED BY GRAPHIC CARDS.
Damn, you couldn't mind Bitcoin with GPUs for YEARS, it's mid 2018 and people still hang on this shit.
Educate yourselves before commenting.
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Except if Bitcoin crashed -> most alt coins would probably crash with it. In that case there will probably be some mining cards on sell. So not so far fetch.
 
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