28 - Core Intel Demo Questioned on Cooling

GoodBoy said:
It's a real server part: https://ark.intel.com/products/120496/Intel-Xeon-Platinum-8180-Processor-38_5M-Cache-2_50-GHz

Just being "Presented" as some new future desktop part at 5Ghz. Which is absurd. And look at the recommended retail price for the server part, $10007...

Even a die shrink will not get that to 5Ghz. It's already at 14nm, 2.5Ghz. Die shrinks don't increase clock speeds below 14nm, but do improve the power usage and thermal profile. So maybe a modest clock speed bump if they could get this to 7nm in a few months. But that isn't going to get it to 5Ghz.

That's why everyone has jumped on what they were doing, pointing and laughing. :)
Click to expand...
Well, maybe the price will be high enough that it comes with it's own CPU chiller system? :)
 
umm intel came an picked it up for a reason it was from the alien ship ..that we .well .. DO ...not..... have (fully working yet ) ..it was taken back to area 51 and disposed of

i suggest anyone near it ...... line your hat with tin foil .. you may have been EXPOSED to advanced tech ..that we do not fully understand ..or know how to use or cool
 
Splorch said:


Paul's Hardware gives a nice close up of the components and the mobo. Correction* 32 (4x8) pin power for the cpu. Apparently 32 phase power delivery. Absolutely insane.
Click to expand...


From the looks of the board at 3:50, looks like the PCI-E lanes from top to bottom are 16, 8, 8, 4, 16, 8, 8, so 68 lanes on the slots total.

I'm curious to know how many of those lanes are CPU lanes.
 
i don't get it, intel knows AMD got the better architecture, scallability, cost, efficiency, they are just better equiped for core wars, and the outcome is easy to predict from ryzen and threadripper lineup, so why does intel double down and initiate the core war knowing fully well it will make them look dumb, why not play on their strenght ?
reasonable amount of cores, but push the clock and optimisation , so even if they lose in benchs they would still be able to spin it, that their 18-20 core cpu with less cores can still beat AMD in gaming, and somewhat get close in workloads, increasing the value of their cores and cheapning AMD's.
but what Intel si doing rightnow is just stupid and shortsighted, their pride cannot be that oversized, it's better to lose with dignity and spin the loss, than to(yet) lose and make yourself look stupid in the process.
seeing the last couple years i honestly think i could make a much better job if i ran intel PR departement.
 
Intel is knee jerking, and will be for at least another year. AMD was smart and took their time to develop a chip that would compete after the disaster that Bulldozer was. Intel should step back and push their R & D teams to develop something competitive in a 3 to 5 year timeframe instead of trying to push something out in a few months to a year. These chips have billions of transistors on them, this isn't a field where you can just push junk out the door. This 28 core chip is more of a disaster than the i9 launch was.
 
Intel was ridding the wave of single core IPC and high clock wave for way too long. Pushing out chips that have been in their server enterprise space for those that were willing to pay the insane premiums.. AMD simply outplayed them and made things much more affordable matching what intel offers for much less. Will be interesting how it unfolds in a few years time.
 
iNViSiGOD said:
That has too be the tackiest setup from a "professional" company I've ever seen. It reminds me of back in the day one of the guys at our LAN party tried too tie 2 celeron together with wire then water cool it without proper tube wrapping. It worked and ran as a dual CPU setup in Windows NT but turned out too be a hot wet mess.
Click to expand...
That sounds like one of the [H]ardest things ever!
 
The whole thing has an air of intel getting a whiff a few days out and having to cobble something together.

“Terry, get our best overclocking engineering sample on a plane, John, figure out how to cool it”

Maybe their corporate spies aren’t that good and thought AMD would just doing a slight clock bump and bring in the dynamic clocking ala Zen. I wouldn’t blame them, I thought there would be another year just because Epycs are still pretty hard to get hold of in quantity, then to effectively make them hedt is ballsy.

Glad I held on to my AMD shares. I was getting shaky a month ago.
 
This pleases me immensely. I've been long AMD since 2015 (entered at ~$2.80) and have been accumulating shares over the past few years. It hasn't been an easy ride for AMD investors, but things are now starting to payoff. This 32 Core victory is just icing on the cake. I sold off a portion of my holdings to take profits, but still have over 14,000 shares and will continue to hold for the long term.

I'll say it once and I'll say it again, LONG AMD.
 
The cooler they used is absolutely beastly. According to anandtech it circulates at a rate of 1500-4000 liters per hour and is rated to almost 2k watts of heat dissipation. Thats about the same as a window air conditioner for a 300 sq ft room...
 
Splorch said:
Paul's Hardware gives a nice close up of the components and the mobo.
Click to expand...
Nice find. While watching the video, I noticed the Cinebench R15 results (skip to 0:28):
intel-28core-gundam.jpg

I understand that 7356 is the overclocked score. But there is another 5912 score for the same CPU, is that the score at stock clocks?
If so, this would explain Intel's strange cooling setup. The 16-core TR 1950X already reaches 3000@stock and [email protected] GHz or so. So Intel feared that a 32-core TR 2000 beats 6000 points easily, and this had to be prevented at all cost.
 
Galvin said:
Intel has to play catch up to AMD. This happened before. Then intel came out with the core2duo.
Click to expand...

If history is repeating itself, we are at the refresh of the Athlon (Thunderbird), with Intel squeezing everything they can out of what they have.with Coppermine. So Zen2 is going to be like the Palomino with a performance jump that will overshadow what Intel has almost across the board like they did with Palomino v Tualatin with Intel pushing a lower-IPC/High-clockspeed parts with their next gen chips. Let's hope no anti-trust BS happens this time around so we can have a 50/50 market in CPUs, or a 50/40/10 if Cyrix decides to come back.

Don't expect Intel to pull a Core 2 Duo until 2026.
 
DuronBurgerMan said:
Imagine if AMD did this. Brought in a 32 core Threadripper engineering sample, slapped a massive sub-ambient cooling system on it, stuck four fans on a massive VRM heatsink, clocked it to 5GHz, got it to post a single Cinebench result, and then said "zOMG we have 5GHz 32 core CPUs, suck it Intel!"

Everybody and their mother would think AMD's marketing moonies had gone completely insane.
Click to expand...


Problem is, there are so many Intel fanboys/tech news agencies that are completely disregarding the fact there was a fridge attached to Intel's 28 core chip. Look at the wccftech and youtube comments of Gamernexus's youtube video that calls bullshit on Intel, people are just putting their fingers in their ears any screaming "I don't care if AMD has more cores, Intel's chip runs at 5Ghz, its fasterrrrrrrr!!!", completely looking the other way on the cooling.
So it seams the big story that most people (other then true PC fans) are focusing on is that Intel released a 28 core chip that "runs at 5Ghz", not that fact Intel was being completely misleading.

Some people can't let themselves see the truth, the truth that AMD knocked one out of the park, while Intel was sleeping and was not pushing innovation (because they didn't need to for years).
 
Last edited:
Arcygenical said:
I guess you need a dedicated 20a breaker for their HEDT platform flagship and cooling?
Click to expand...

Nah, just 3 phase 208 volt. get by with less amperage that way....
Gatecrasher3000 said:
Problem is, there are so many Intel fanboys/tech news agencies that are completely disregarding the fact there was a fridge attached to Intel's 28 core chip. Look at the wccftech and youtube comments of Gamernexus's youtube video that calls bullshit on Intel, people are just putting their fingers in their ears any screaming "I don't care if AMD has more cores, Intel's chip runs at 5Ghz, its fasterrrrrrrr!!!", completely looking the other way on the cooling.
So it seams the big story that most people (other then true PC fans) are focusing on is that Intel released a 28 core chip that "runs at 5Ghz", not that fact Intel was being completely misleading.

Some people can't let themselves see the truth, the truth that AMD knocked one out of the park, while Intel was sleeping and was not pushing innovation (because they didn't need to for years).
Click to expand...


That's the truly puzzling part of this, the target market for this chip knows what Intel did, and were not amused. The only people this impresses, don't have a clue, and would not be buying it anyway. PR stunt that backfired, I suppose.

The speed with which they pulled the samples from the vendors is hilarious.
 
Rauelius said:
Don't expect Intel to pull a Core 2 Duo until 2026.
Click to expand...
Just remember that Intel has had a long time and a lot of funds to perform R&D. 12+ years is a long time to completely dominate a very lucrative industry, aka you can generate a shitton of capital. If all this pans out and AMD finally moves measurably ahead of Intel, I think competition is going to heat up much sooner than 2026, more like late 2019, early-mid 2020... It's a different world than the early 2000's and AMD held the crown for maybe 3 years. Zen seems like a winner and it took Keller and his team probably somewhere around 2.5 years to lay the foundation as he was there for just under 3. If anyone thinks that Intel (or Nvidia for that matter) aren't looking to the next generation of their respective devices, with what appears to be quite a bit of looming competition, well I have something to sell you! Organizations hate competition and should have management that is looking at external threats every day.

Nonetheless pretty impressive on AMD's part to get Intel shaking in their boots a bit!
 
haste. said:
Just remember that Intel has had a long time and a lot of funds to perform R&D. 12+ years is a long time to completely dominate a very lucrative industry, aka you can generate a shitton of capital. If all this pans out and AMD finally moves measurably ahead of Intel, I think competition is going to heat up much sooner than 2026, more like late 2019, early-mid 2020... It's a different world than the early 2000's and AMD held the crown for maybe 3 years. Zen seems like a winner and it took Keller and his team probably somewhere around 2.5 years to lay the foundation as he was there for just under 3. If anyone thinks that Intel (or Nvidia for that matter) aren't looking to the next generation of their respective devices, with what appears to be quite a bit of looming competition, well I have something to sell you! Organizations hate competition and should have management that is looking at external threats every day.

Nonetheless pretty impressive on AMD's part to get Intel shaking in their boots a bit!
Click to expand...

The problem I see is Intel squandered billions on 10nm tech which they were supposed to have years ago and now they have fallen behind. They also tried to take on ARM, heck if I remember right they were trying to make tv box setups as well. They simply squandered their money trying to be everywhere and master of none , with their hire of Jim Keller they are pretty much telling you they are 4 to 5 years out on a new architecture. No matter how much money you pour into something it still takes a certain amount of time. AMD has done well by keeping their focus like a laser on their projects which came at the cost of the GPU side of things, now they are switching back to focus on the GPU side since the CPU side is set for now. A good battle between Intel and AMD is best for us but I believe AMD has the better roadmap and focus at the moment. Hopefully it jolts the slumbering giant into real action and not the dog and pony show the 5 Ghz 28 core debut was.
 
Gideon said:
The problem I see is Intel squandered billions on 10nm tech which they were supposed to have years ago and now they have fallen behind. They also tried to take on ARM, heck if I remember right they were trying to make tv box setups as well. They simply squandered their money trying to be everywhere and master of none , with their hire of Jim Keller they are pretty much telling you they are 4 to 5 years out on a new architecture. No matter how much money you pour into something it still takes a certain amount of time. AMD has done well by keeping their focus like a laser on their projects which came at the cost of the GPU side of things, now they are switching back to focus on the GPU side since the CPU side is set for now. A good battle between Intel and AMD is best for us but I believe AMD has the better roadmap and focus at the moment. Hopefully it jolts the slumbering giant into real action and not the dog and pony show the 5 Ghz 28 core debut was.
Click to expand...
Can't really argue any of that. I do think that we should be expecting 2 to 3 years instead of the 4 to 5 you stated, but that's for the basic arch and then they have to get the silicone to market. So assuming he got to work right away, arch done by 2020ish and to market no later than YE2023 (and that would be very late). I'm sure Intel was working on something and brought Keller in to optimize seeing what he did with less resources and crunched for time at AMD.

Plus Intel will netburst the shit out of this and squeeze everything they can out of the current technology (cf. 28 core 5ghz cpu that may as well been the furnace in my 1600sq ft home). Depending on how Zen arch scales over time we could be looking at Athlon all over again. Just trying to throw a counterpoint out to the AMD love fest - had an FX way back in early 2000's and it was saaa-weet. Would love to see it again just feels like a different marketplace.

I keep on thinking of the show Silicone Valley where somehow the villain Gabin Benson/Hooli (in this case to most y'all is Intel) somehow always figures out a way to screw the hero (in this case to most y'all is AMD)... not to a superior product but due to resources.

Edit: But that signature is awesome if you have seen the show!
 
It was an embarrassment to be sure.

But don't forget the background situation. Intel needs to completely redesign their architecture to stop the speculative execution problems. We can easily imagine that their entire planned lineup of demos to do for the next year or so is completely blown up and on fire. I'd assume they just don't have the chips ready to show that they thought they would. Their R&D is still the most capable, it's just busy fixing the other issues right now.

Not saying it isn't bad. It's bad. But it does give AMD at least half a year to really show off desktop CPUs and get some good PR.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N4CR
like this
chithanh said:
Nice find. While watching the video, I noticed the Cinebench R15 results (skip to 0:28):
View attachment 79262
I understand that 7356 is the overclocked score. But there is another 5912 score for the same CPU, is that the score at stock clocks?
If so, this would explain Intel's strange cooling setup. The 16-core TR 1950X already reaches 3000@stock and [email protected] GHz or so. So Intel feared that a 32-core TR 2000 beats 6000 points easily, and this had to be prevented at all cost.
Click to expand...

This score is in line with the ASUS setup on regular water cooling. 6K give or take, which TR2 will easily beat.
 
FLCLimax said:
This score is in line with the ASUS setup on regular water cooling. 6K give or take, which TR2 will easily beat.
Click to expand...

Easily is a stretch. TR2 will have memory latency and bandwidth issues because two dies will have disabled memory controllers. I'm not as bearish as some are - I am sure AMD has mitigated the worst of the problems this would incur (and I wonder if there will be an X399 refresh with 8-channel RAM in the near future). But nonetheless, I don't expect scaling to be as good with 32 cores as it was with 16, as a result of this.
 
The thing I love about this whole shit-show is the Intel fanboi excuse making. (I run all Intel at home, BTW, so stow the AMD fanboi BS). Yeah, yeah, a big-ass external chiller and insulated cooling is TOTALLY NORMAL! LOL. Basically Intel demoed a unicorn that may or may not every ship.

Competition is awesome and IMO, I think AMD has caught Intel with their pants down. It's a lot like the Athlon days. And that is GREAT.
 
This is utterly a fun time seeing this going down. Love the images of Intels cooler for 28 core vs. the AMD air cooler for 32 core :LOL:. PCs are fun again or should I say way more fun now as like in the golden days of old.
 
DuronBurgerMan said:
Easily is a stretch. TR2 will have memory latency and bandwidth issues because two dies will have disabled memory controllers. I'm not as bearish as some are - I am sure AMD has mitigated the worst of the problems this would incur (and I wonder if there will be an X399 refresh with 8-channel RAM in the near future). But nonetheless, I don't expect scaling to be as good with 32 cores as it was with 16, as a result of this.
Click to expand...

The IF has a really good bandwidth throughput, its the latency which it effects, so in things like offline rendering I wouldn't imagine a huge loss in core scaling.

If the data being processed can be done entirely in cache, you're looking at perfect scaling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: N4CR
like this
DuronBurgerMan said:
Easily is a stretch. TR2 will have memory latency and bandwidth issues because two dies will have disabled memory controllers. I'm not as bearish as some are - I am sure AMD has mitigated the worst of the problems this would incur (and I wonder if there will be an X399 refresh with 8-channel RAM in the near future). But nonetheless, I don't expect scaling to be as good with 32 cores as it was with 16, as a result of this.
Click to expand...

I'm willing to bet it will score either the same or a little more. Not expecting 7K but definitely 6. There's increased IPC(however small) and better boost technology. A WC setup should have no trouble with that much.

If alot of the rendering can be handled in the cache, even better for scaling.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top