Americans Won’t Pay to Win a Video Game, but Chinese Gamers Will

Megalith

Megalith

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According to market research, one significant difference between US gamers and Chinese gamers is that the latter have no issue with paying to win. Many in China accept games that sell progress rewards or in-game boosts, which, as evidenced by the reputation of titles such as Battlefront II, contrasts greatly with Western mindsets.

"In Asian territories such as South Korea and China, the traditional consumption model has been via the PC and originally internet cafe pre-paid game time or subscription." Since many of the consumers in those markets were used to paying recurring costs to game, they have "largely migrated to free games with micro transactions" today, Harding-Rolls added.
 
Had a long discussion with a developer about this who worked in the industry. It's really intriguing to hear how much different the paradigm is. The market also is so much higher in countries different from the US for those games...almost to 10 to 1 ratio. He was telling me that a customer in China would willing spend up to $350 for a game over time, compared to a US person who have too many options to buy games, who you have to CLAW $20 out of.

It really made me aware how terrible of a market we are for some people.
 
I've always just coupled this behavior with the same cutthroat "win-at-any-cost" borderline cheating mentality I've seen with Chinese business. I don't even really mean this as a negative per se. It's just a very different and arguably more pragmatic mindset.


"If I have the resources, why should I not utilize them to my best advantage?"

vs.

"Hey, that isn't FAIR. We should all have a level playing field to start from!"
 
It is unfortunately a trend that is steadily killing my ability to play multiplayer online games. I will absolutely not play a game that is pay 2 win. It wasn't to many years ago that 90% of my time gaming was online multiplayer. Today that number is closer to 20%.
 
Hypothesis: MMO games are a passing phase. Once decent NPC AI is implemented for both enemies and allies, there will be no reason to play with fleshbags, who typically are some unpleasant combination of cheater, incompetent, and asshat.

All hail our new robotic gaming partners!
 
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just one more of the many reasons that America has 18 aircraft carriers (many of them super carriers) and China has, well, one and it's a very used, restored Russian model
 
Is it wrong of me to wonder how much money is stolen and being used to pay for these things? Maybe they just have a better economy and market.

I do not multiplayer so only speculation.
 
trentchau said:
Had a long discussion with a developer about this who worked in the industry. It's really intriguing to hear how much different the paradigm is. The market also is so much higher in countries different from the US for those games...almost to 10 to 1 ratio. He was telling me that a customer in China would willing spend up to $350 for a game over time, compared to a US person who have too many options to buy games, who you have to CLAW $20 out of.

It really made me aware how terrible of a market we are for some people.
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One of the books I'm currently reading touched upon this. (Replay: The History of Video Games. It's better than most books on the subject in that it has a large focus on European and Asian video games, rather than just American & Japanese games. But not a great book overall, as there are a lot of errors in it, and it's a broad overview rather than anything specific.)

When it came to China and South Korea, it stated how traditional video games didn't exactly get a great start over there. China had a ban on consoles, and South Korea, up until the 90s, had a ban on Japanese products. And up until the past 20 years or so, their economies weren't exactly that great, so video games were more of a black market, piracy affair. So, when local companies wanted to make more culturally relevant games for their own particular audiences, the traditional model failed. And it was really the Pay 2 Win model which took off. I.e. Culturally relevant games which fit within their budget are what introduced many of them to video gaming, so that's what they've become accustom too.

It's just hard to change what's considered a norm.
 
pcgeekesq said:
Hypothesis: MMO games are a passing phase. Once decent NPC AI is implemented for both enemies and allies, there will be no reason to play with fleshbags, who typically are some unpleasant combination of cheater, incompetent, and asshat.

All hail our new robotic gaming partners!
Click to expand...

Outside two exceptions MMO' s have been dead for over a decade.
 
Like I keep saying it's a huge cultural difference. American's value fair play and hard work the Chinese (I.E the people of China not necessarily anyone of Chinese ancestry) don't they will lie and scam and cheat you in any way they can. They can never be trusted, they also don't value individual life, or liberty or free thought. They do have some good values, respect for the elderly, communal/national well being, but by and large their value are trash and they are morally and culturally bankrupt. The Chinese aren't just okay with cheating in games they are ok with cheating period. I personally wish all American game companies with aggressively ban Chinese players from playing on American servers. If they wan't to cheat in China fine by me but I am sick of their filth ruining online gaming here for people that actually have values and want to enjoy fair competition.
 
It isn't just video games. Chinese will cheat any chance they can, or pay money to get to the top if necessary. In Chinese culture, all that matters is getting to the top and not how you got there. Same reason why IP and copyright doesn't mean much there. If you can make a profit, who cares what it took or who is being screwed over as long as you're making money. And that isn't the only country where a significant amount of people think that way.
 
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When I sold my World of Warcraft account with the most geared Hunter on the server (and other 99 alts at the time) - it was a chinese buyer. Paid $1,100 US for it too.
 
tangoseal said:
Under Chinese communism they aren't allowed to own property much less anything of value so why the hell not pretend you have property in a virtual world.

That's the difference as I see it.
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Kinda forgot about that which once taken into consideration puts a different perspective on all of this. It doesn't seem so crazy after all. Thanks for the reminder.
 
dgz said:


Seriously, though. I don't believe you.
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It ain't like the US by any stretch. Here you go (a bit of a read):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_property_law
Wiki said:
Chinese property law has existed in various forms for centuries. After the Chinese Communist Revolution in 1949, most land is owned by collectivities or by the state; the Property Law of the People's Republic of China passed in 2007 codified property rights.
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I've always felt that this sort of thinking goes hand-in-hand with the concept of bartering. Lots of countries (particularly in Asia and the Middle East) are all about the bartering - banter back and forth to extract the maximum amount I can from each customer for the product I am selling. Americans just don't barter. We don't. And if someone comes along to a vendor after us and negotiates a better deal, we tend to get butthurt about it. It's just the way the system works.
 
I spent a bit over $20 over the course of a week to get farther in Candy Crush Saga years ago.. Then I woke up and uninstalled that shit. That was the last time I spent a dime to win a game
 
tetris42 said:
What?
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Name two MMO's not wow or ffxiv that have lasted in the north American market more than 24 months before massive server consolidation or are nothing more than giant Chinese gold farms.

Go on, I'll wait.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Name two MMO's not wow or ffxiv that have lasted in the north American market more than 24 months before massive server consolidation or are nothing more than giant Chinese gold farms.

Go on, I'll wait.
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EVE Online and Guild Wars 2? Those have both lasted 15 years and 6, respectively.

I don't know the details of each one, but a bunch of MMOs are still operating, Rift, Tera, The Secret World, LOTR Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Warframe, Wildfall, Aion etc. for many years.

Also you've had Bless Online, Black Desert, Conan Exiles, Crossout, Worlds Adrift, Albion Online, Pantheon Rise of The Fallen, Project TL, and Crowfall all either released within 1 year or else are early access / to be released.


Of course not all of them will be home runs, but when you have dozens of MMOs still going after 6-10+ years, and dozens of NEW ones coming out, how the hell does that translate to dead? If anything, many will fail due too much competition. To me, "dead" doesn't mean "a crapload of new games in the genre coming out."
 
Still operating and being successful are massively different things. Eliminate all the ones that are nothing more than Chinese gold farms or not even mmo's (gw2) and the only one you are left with out of that list is Eve. Eve is really an entirely different animal and given the time ice invested into it, I'm going to exclude it from the list. It has a super rabid fan base, but I wouldn't say it's growing.

As for everything released in the past year, let's see them get past the 24 month mark. So far your list just proves how dead MMO's are. Nearly everything on that list is either new, a dead game or free to play p2w trash.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Still operating and being successful are massively different things. Eliminate all the ones that are nothing more than Chinese gold farms or not even mmo's (gw2) and the only one you are left with out of that list is Eve. Eve is really an entirely different animal and given the time ice invested into it, I'm going to exclude it from the list. It has a super rabid fan base, but I wouldn't say it's growing.

As for everything released in the past year, let's see them get past the 24 month mark. So far your list just proves how dead MMO's are. Nearly everything on that list is either new, a dead game or free to play p2w trash.
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Well, I gave you two examples that fit your criteria, you're excluding them because... no reason given (seriously, claiming GW2 isn't an MMO?).

You claim the ones that are still around, releasing expansions are "dead", and because the genre is so dead, we're having a dozen or more contenders within the year. All I can say is that's an awful lot of development for a genre that's dead. I hope you're not a doctor, I wouldn't want you passing judgment on whether a patient is living or not. Anyway, this sentence fragment sums it all up to me:

Dekoth-E" said:
So far your list just proves how dead MMO's are. Nearly everything on that list is either new
Click to expand...
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Name two MMO's not wow or ffxiv that have lasted in the north American market more than 24 months before massive server consolidation or are nothing more than giant Chinese gold farms.

Go on, I'll wait.
Click to expand...
Asherons call
Everquest

There's lots more
 
tetris42 said:
Well, I gave you two examples that fit your criteria, you're excluding them because... no reason given (seriously, claiming GW2 isn't an MMO?).

You claim the ones that are still around, releasing expansions are "dead", and because the genre is so dead, we're having a dozen or more contenders within the year. All I can say is that's an awful lot of development for a genre that's dead. I hope you're not a doctor, I wouldn't want you passing judgment on whether a patient is living or not. Anyway, this sentence fragment sums it all up to me:
Click to expand...

tangoseal said:
Asherons call
Everquest

There's lots more
Click to expand...
I also originally said games produced in the past 10 years. Nearly everything on that list is older than that or just came out. Guild wars 2 isn't a mmo by any definition. It is more of a heavily instanced RPG mud like diablo.
 
tetris42 said:
Well Asheron's Call isn't a very good example, since that one DID get shut down last year.
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Yeah after nearly 20 years on the books. I played for like 13 of those at minimum. Best video game I have ever played hands down in the long term of things.
 
tangoseal said:
Under Chinese communism they aren't allowed to own property much less anything of value so why the hell not pretend you have property in a virtual world.

That's the difference as I see it.
Click to expand...

Do yourself a favor and read books, travel, and learn about the world.
 
RogueTrip said:
Is it wrong of me to wonder how much money is stolen and being used to pay for these things? Maybe they just have a better economy and market.

I do not multiplayer so only speculation.
Click to expand...
I think it is very incorrect. You know that 800 billion trade deficit we have? Where do you think that money goes? Someone makes it. The Chinese have a massive upper class consisting of millions of people that can spend as they please on anything they want. Not just in video games ask people in Vegas Chinese are a huge money source. Even in unknown towns like mine Chinese buyers are purchasing property in significant amounts.
 
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