California to Become First US State Mandating Solar on New Homes

They are ecologically damaging, the salmon runs have been decimated, BUT, they are required to supplement and increase runs from other areas. Friend is the tagging manager for all Fed hatcheries in three states, pretty cool hearing the inside scoop. Dams are also nice in that you can control water flow! Theres one close to me we used to jump off of and race the chasers to shore, so they add fun in as well. Can’t do THAT any longer!

1: The state's been decommissioning nuclear plants for a while now. And, for California, I can kinda understand. Building nuclear reactors on top of a fault zone is...like...playing Russian Roulette with a magazine-fed pistol.

About the only "safe-ish" place to build would be in extreme North-Western California. And even then you have a couple of volcanoes in the area. Not to mention that Northern California land prices (and the people living there) would do their best to make it completely uneconomical.

2: The state's hydro capacity is slowly decreasing over time. The environmental movements are pushing to tear down dams as "ecologically damaging". Also, water rights are becoming valuable for reasons beyond power generation. And with lower quantities of water coming down the Colorado River, Hoover/Boulder Dam is coming closer and closer to shutdown, as the level of Lake Mead draws close to the level of the intake pipes for the dam.

3: It also doesn't help that California's politicians and regulators were absolute fucking morons about how they de-regulated power in the state. It actually became a viable business transaction to sell power out-of-state to a subsidiary, because they weren't allowed to charge more in-state, and then have the subsidiary sell the power back into the state on a higher scale! And these numbnuts were TOLD that something like this was going to happen!

Honestly, if this measure was a "Solar + Battery" setup with a smart connection to the grid? I might still bitch about house pricing, but I'd have no real, technical bitches about it. AT ALL. Well, maybe outside of where they were going to GET all those batteries...

The main problem with the current proposition is that solar production "peaks" in an uncontrolled manner at the wrong time of day, with insufficient storage options. So most of that power is going to waste.
 
Lol. Ahhh...hahaha

Ok

Refusing to improve your own situation is everyone else's problem?

Lol lol
 
Wanting to live with family = entitled little shit, what a fucking sad country.. but I am sure you don't even understand why is that... This coming from a person that 'moved' so i guess i am not an entitled little shit, maybe i should have been.
If your family lived in Beverly Hills, would you be equally upset that you couldn't afford to live there as well? Bottom line is this example of Beverly Hills has simply expanded a bit, fact is most of the country is "affordable" in this regards just the regions where the prices have skyrocketed quite a bit and "Beverly Hills" is not just Beverly Hills. I wouldn't call it entitled but it is something that people obviously put value on, living near family, so they also have to making a choice of what monetary value are they willing to pay in order to have that value? Sure it used to be the history of generations of Rockerfellers who lived at Martha's Vineyard and 3rd cousin twice removed Skip Rockerfeller doesn't make as much money as the rest of the clan, now it's generations of Joe Average who now are priced out of an area.

But the way I see it this is not due to California, or any other state, making a mandate on how new properties are built, it has everything to do with people wanting to live somewhere and that is the major factor that drives pricing of homes (whether you outright buy or rent), so be upset with everyone else who wants to live there who's fucking it over for you, blame your previous generation of ancestors for setting up roots in one area instead of spreading out you just happen to be the one who's now forced to do it (and by you I'm talking in a generic fashion). Why are there so many tech industries around the SF Bay Area? Google, Youtube, Facebook, Apple, etc etc etc etc (times a bazillion), I know historically (back in the original Hewlett Packard/semi conductor industry days) it has been to be close to highly prestigious education centers (Stanford and Berkeley) but those days have long past as the people graduating from those areas can't afford to live here either, and we have these things called planes too where flying somewhere to get a high paying job is actually a thing, why do financial centers have to be located near/on Wall St? Tradition? Is there some physical reason they have to be there?

This is simply a matter of supply and demand, there's a large demand of people to live somewhere the prices were most definitely be higher as the supply side is limited in that regards especially in "older" cities that don't physically have the space to add sufficient supply. The same exact house built with the same material and the same cost of labor to build, on the same sized lot of land, will cost more in one area than another simply because in one area more people want to live there, and I'm not even talking about people overbidding.
 
Sorry. I obviously greatly offended you. I guess the SUV isn't the most popular car in California (all lies I say!)
No you didn't greatly offend me, as there are a number of guarantees one can expect from this message board among them are people are self professed experts in all things technology and this becomes especially evident when there's a post about solar power, people will rip into bit coin or any type of "crypto" or other type, if there's talk of self driving cars there will be post bad things until you can pry they keyboard from my cold dead, anything Elon Musk does, and California bashing regardless of it is warranted or not.. that's a great past time here, and there are a few others as well. So yeah if I got offended every time someone said something bad about California I'd probably not come to this site anymore.

The fact is you said 99.999% of people who are "green" drive SUVs that get 8-14MPG, which yeah some people do drive the Goliath editions of some of these, but you're kind of greatly exaggerating to the point of being 99.999% wrong.
 
1: The state's been decommissioning nuclear plants for a while now. And, for California, I can kinda understand. Building nuclear reactors on top of a fault zone is...like...playing Russian Roulette with a magazine-fed pistol.
This is a vast over exaggeration. In the history of nuclear power in California there have been a grand total of 4 power plants, one of which was an extremely tiny one at 65 MW capacity which was scrapped because regulation made it unprofitable (oh and they lost a few fuel rods!), another which was just under 1 GW had a long history of shutting down frequently, steam releases (of the radioactive kind), and the last which was decommissioned was done so again after a lot of wear tear, amongst other things it was a 45 year old plant. The official decommission dates of 3 reactors was 1979, 2009, and 2013 respectively. The way people talk (not saying you specifically) about how California has "shut down all it's reactors" you'd think they had dozens throughout the state, which is simply not true. While yes there has a rather large anti-nuclear moment in the state, given the history of the 4 plants that it has had, I would say it's well earned. Sure you might argue "but 1960s technology" but the cold fact is the corporations that bankroll these power plants are going to do so not out of the kindness of their heart to provide for the people but because they want to make a profit, and they will try to maximize the profit however possible.


The main problem with the current proposition is that solar production "peaks" in an uncontrolled manner at the wrong time of day, with insufficient storage options. So most of that power is going to waste.
Again a bit of an over exaggeration. While yes solar power does peak a time when the peak usage isn't there, the usage is still greater than the production by a vast amount, and on summer days that daylight hour usage pushes back even more so. As it stands if California doubled it's solar/wind production (and that's not just roof top homes, that's the many gigawatts of farms out there) then we'd still not be able to keep up with usage at any time during the day. When solar is made it will be used, this is not a matter of converting all the power over to solar.
 
But the way I see it this is not due to California, or any other state, making a mandate on how new properties are built, it has everything to do with people wanting to live somewhere and that is the major factor that drives pricing of homes

You have no understanding of all the regulations and other impediments to building homes in California.
This Solar panel requirement is just the latest in a long list.

Yes, land costs are high, but you nee to include the environmental reviews, the lawsuits by some group trying to save a snail, the building restrictions, the requirement to set aside a small portion of the homes for low cost housing (i.e sell them below costs), etc. This can easily add over $200,000 to the cost of a new home.

If new homes go up in price, used home do too.

Many years ago we looked into adding a sunroom on the back of our house. Have family members in construction, so I was going to due most the work myself (with some help).
After going back & forth with the city, I finally gave up and just build a patio.
There where just to many catch-22 type issues that would have tripled the cost, that it wasn't worth it.
 
Been to Texas, definitely prefer California weather. Also, you don't need to get out of California to get away from high prices, simply heading two hours out (without traffic) from the SF Bay Area would get you into equivalently cheap areas. Stockton, Sacramento, Fresno, and the areas in between all have much lower priced homes because the land is much cheaper.
Which part of Texas? We have several major climate differences depending where you are at. I'd be surprised even areas like Sacramento if you could manage to find a decent 2500 sq ft home in a good area for 250K or less. Thats common for the suburbs outside of the major cities in Texas.
 
Which part of Texas? We have several major climate differences depending where you are at. I'd be surprised even areas like Sacramento if you could manage to find a decent 2500 sq ft home in a good area for 250K or less. Thats common for the suburbs outside of the major cities in Texas.

San Antonio in December and June.

Maybe not right in Sacramento, but the surrounding areas would have similar prices. It would most likely be higher than Texas, but I doubt by much. Depends on the age of the house too.
 
For me, solar is a waste for me as I work the entire day and come home at night. I might do well if I have solar charged batteries connected to LED lights and some small electronics, but there is little to no savings from solar as as of yet.
 
Great... more unnecessary increased costs in housing. I swear our generation has it harder than our parents' (i'm 31). I don't see myself ever owning a house.
Homes in huge swaths of the US are cheap, and borrowing is also still cheap.
 
Great... more unnecessary increased costs in housing. I swear our generation has it harder than our parents' (i'm 31). I don't see myself ever owning a house.

You can still own a house, you might just need to live near black people or latinos. Or get a condo. If that's too much, then you are free to keep renting.
 
CA is fucked and normal hard working people like you don't have the political influence. Move to somewhere that appreciates hard work, and individual freedom. If most of the workers and tax base move CA will implode, and at this point it's the only way the problem will be fixed.

At the end of the day you're fighting a loosing battle, and they'll keep bringing in illegal's to vote the way they want. Same exact crap is happening across the EU.


California also receives large numbers of extremely highly skilled immigrants from India and China and plenty of other places with earnings that far outstrip the average salary in the state currently. Those people count too, though your blanket irritation with immigration blinds you to this positive aspect of Californias draw.
 
California also receives large numbers of extremely highly skilled immigrants from India and China and plenty of other places with earnings that far outstrip the average salary in the state currently. Those people count too, though your blanket irritation with immigration blinds you to this positive aspect of Californias draw.

I don't see the draw myself. The dollar gets me far more where I live, i'm not surrounded by people, and I make good money doing what I do.

Your average person living in CA seems to agree with me given that more people are leaving CA instead of entering. Same thing is happening to all of these states with insane taxes and laughable politics.
 
Been to Texas, definitely prefer California weather. Also, you don't need to get out of California to get away from high prices, simply heading two hours out (without traffic) from the SF Bay Area would get you into equivalently cheap areas. Stockton, Sacramento, Fresno, and the areas in between all have much lower priced homes because the land is much cheaper.

Problem is when you head out two hours, you have a 4-6 hour commute. Going from the East Bay to middle of San Jose is about an hour itself with bad traffic. Or you can choose to work in those areas but the job market isn't as good and the wages aren't as good. Suddenly the cheaper prices aren't that cheap. Obviously there are exceptions and cheap areas to live relative to the average wage, but in general the further you are the less opportunities there are.
 
I don't see the draw myself. The dollar gets me far more where I live, i'm not surrounded by people, and I make good money doing what I do.

Your average person living in CA seems to agree with me given that more people are leaving CA instead of entering. Same thing is happening to all of these states with insane taxes and laughable politics.

Most of these people aren't moving in for the jobs, they already have the money. The job is just to supplement and maintain the lifestyle. Their primary purpose in coming to the Bay Area is to give their kids the best education possible, and the Bay Area is known to have some of the best education districts and programs, especially with all the tech companies sponsoring local education programs.

More people are entering than leaving. That's why prices skyrocket, because the demand far outpaces the supply. If more people were leaving as you claim, housing prices would be dropping, not increasing. Simple economics. The problem is that locals are leaving while foreigners are coming in in droves.

Problem is when you head out two hours, you have a 4-6 hour commute. Going from the East Bay to middle of San Jose is about an hour itself with bad traffic. Or you can choose to work in those areas but the job market isn't as good and the wages aren't as good. Suddenly the cheaper prices aren't that cheap. Obviously there are exceptions and cheap areas to live relative to the average wage, but in general the further you are the less opportunities there are.

Which is also generally true for the rest of the country.
 
Most of these people aren't moving in for the jobs, they already have the money. The job is just to supplement and maintain the lifestyle. Their primary purpose in coming to the Bay Area is to give their kids the best education possible, and the Bay Area is known to have some of the best education districts and programs, especially with all the tech companies sponsoring local education programs.

More people are entering than leaving. That's why prices skyrocket, because the demand far outpaces the supply. If more people were leaving as you claim, housing prices would be dropping, not increasing. Simple economics. The problem is that locals are leaving while foreigners are coming in in droves.



Which is also generally true for the rest of the country.

http://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265


Any sensible person wouldn’t remain in CA. It’s a sinking ship and the increasing taxes to overcome the loss of taxable citizens will only make the problem worse. Illinois is in the same boat.

The question you need to ask yourself is where all these people are coming from if they aren’t migrating in legitimately.
 
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http://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265


Any sensible person wouldn’t remain in CA. It’s a sinking ship and the increasing taxes to overcome the loss of taxable citizens will only make the problem worse. Illinois is in the same boat.

The question you need to ask yourself is where all these people are coming from if they aren’t migrating in legitimately.

That just looks at California as a whole. I wouldn't be surprised at places in the middle of nowhere becoming essentially ghost towns, there are no jobs or major industries outside of the cities, unless you're a farmer. However, what is happening to California as a whole is not representative of what is happening in the Bay Area and Los Angeles areas. Try to understand that fact first.
 
That just looks at California as a whole. I wouldn't be surprised at places in the middle of nowhere becoming essentially ghost towns, there are no jobs or major industries outside of the cities, unless you're a farmer. However, what is happening to California as a whole is not representative of what is happening in the Bay Area and Los Angeles areas. Try to understand that fact first.

Pretty easy to understand and it’s the loss of that tax base and employers for the lower class like the farmer that is hurting your state. No sane person would support and continue paying taxes there based off the poor decisions of the technocrats running the entire state who don’t have to deal with the consequences of the regulations they pass.
 
Great... more unnecessary increased costs in housing. I swear our generation has it harder than our parents' (i'm 31). I don't see myself ever owning a house.


I hate to be the guy but you do realize that you pay more to rent than to own right? At any point in time the rental and own prices can never get to far away from each other. the reason is because if rent goes too high, people will just start buying, and if buying goes too high, people will just move to renting. Likewise investors do the same if renting is high, they rent places they own or build more rentals, and if buying is high then they convert rentals to buying. I have several siblings in CA and they say the same thing, and I said this to them, and sure enough as home prices went sky rocketing so did their rent. Also you have to think about your long term life, when you own a home you are building an investment that will help you out in the long run. Look at CA again a lot of people for decades have said I cant afford to own, well those people are eating it now as their rents sky rocket and the people who bought homes are sitting pretty some of them looking to retire on the sale of their properties.

Wait you are going to say but I rent for XXX and don't see a house for XXX, the thing you are missing is comparing similar places. Most people compare renting a tiny apartment to owning a full sized home, and those are not the same. I don't know why but its some weird psychologically weird things humans do. They set a different standard for renting and owning. Just like people who buy homes think they cost a lot to maintain because they set standards for what they want in a house that are higher than renting. If you bought a house and were happy with the same cheap formica counters, white walls, and light tan $1 / square foot carpet that's in your apartment you would be surprised how cheap owning would be.
You have to just think about it logically people put places up for rent for one simple reason they are making money off the renters. This will always be true. So if you are renting some places you are making someone else money. Money that you could have been investing in yourself, in a owned place.

The main point is that if you save up some money a time will come when you may buy the market always corrects itself. My dad is a home remodeler been in the industry for most of his life we have seen it all in every market, there is always a way. It just might not be your dream home, these cycles happen fast, remember it was only 11 years ago that home prices tanked.
 
This is a very crazy mandate. This means you can't really even have natural gas in new homes. Solar is nice but the panels don't last forever and would need to be replaced in 20-30 years.
 
Let me guess, they're not getting rid of the mandate the houses must also be grid attached wherever possible..
 
Life long California resident here, and even worse SF bay area resident, so I know first hand about the cost of housing and how it has changed over the years.

1. This has been tried before in the past, I forget it was actually a bill (mandate) or if it was just bounced around in committee, but the result was that building industry basically sued because it would increase the cost of housing too much and the idea (again I think it was actually already law, but I may be mistaken) was squashed.
2. California housing is expensive true, but how much do you think a solar system would cost you? $35k? Ok fine your $650k home (not anywhere near SF or LA... at least the nicer non-gangy parts) increased in cost 5%, you might spend that much or more in closing costs, if you want a nicer bathroom or kitchen you definitely are paying that much more. Yes $35k isn't anything to shake a stick at, but it's hardly the breaking point.
2b. That $35k system to add, would be YOUR cost to install it on your house, builders will get a slight discount on materials and more importantly they'll get a massive discount on labor since they'd use their own crews to install this. This translates to a much cheaper system, which as anyone who builds/retrofit anything will tell you is much easier to do in new construction. So the cost actually will be cheaper.
3. This is on NEW construction, this isn't a mandate that you get solar panels installed on any home purchase, only for homes that are newly being built. We already don't have enough to go around here, whether it's electricity, water, parking space, driving space on freeways, etc, so it's about time that builders now contribute to part of that infrastructure rather than just happily build and say everything else is someone else's problem while they cash their checks at the bank.

Bottom line anything that makes things more difficult for people to move to California then the better, I'm sick and fucking tired of people bitching about affordable housing while also thinking they have some innate right to live anywhere they want for the price they want to pay, all the while making the standard of living worse for those who already live in those areas due to the influx of people. Housing is affordable in this country, just not in a few select areas. Look at this map https://www.trulia.com/home_prices/ and tell me it's not affordable to live here, with "here" being the country as a whole. Yeah you want to live in those small areas where the color map is super bright red, then guess what you need to pay for that honor.

Spoken like a true Californian. 35k CAN and WILL break the bank for some.

650k = 130k down and 3k/month payment (which is way outside of the majority of people in the country)
685k = 137k down and 3.2k/month payment

Just because you can absorb the cost doesnt mean everyone can.

And in reality those builders, who I agree wont pay 35k for the solar system, will charge you probably 60k for it...because lets be honest they are out to make a profit and this is a nice easy win. So yes the cost will be cheaper...to the builder.

Regarding your #3 this wont solve most of those issues and its ability to solve the energy one is questionable. Does CA allow home owners to sell power back to the grid? Because if no then youre stealing my power...power I paid for a generation facility for because I was forced to.
 
Spoken like a true Californian. 35k CAN and WILL break the bank for some.

650k = 130k down and 3k/month payment (which is way outside of the majority of people in the country)
Yes spoken like a true Californian, who's talking about Californian houses, and then those who can afford the payments on Californian houses. I'm not saying this is a feasible plan across the whole country, because I absolutely agree with your premise, someone in a 200-250k area 35k is a harder pill to swallow.

And yes in CA you can sell power back to the grid, the exact rules of it depend upon when you do it, new Solar must be on a ToU schedule though IIRC.
 
Any sensible person wouldn’t remain in CA. It’s a sinking ship and the increasing taxes to overcome the loss of taxable citizens will only make the problem worse. Illinois is in the same boat.
Well you know what they say about sinking ships... as long as the rats leave first they great!

But I think you're vastly over estimating the taxation problem, the first "problem" is while the graph on the site you cited showed a net migration out of the state since 1990 the population of the state went from about 30M to 40M, so the wildcard there is we are breeding faster than we're losing people (not a good problem to have) and tax revenue will continue to be there, although it does show while schools tend to be worse there's simply more kids. Also from the article
Although California has had net out-migration among most demographic groups, it has gained among those with higher incomes ($110,000 per year or more) and higher levels of education (graduate degrees).
Like I said, rats leaving is good, having the first class passengers coming, better for everyone including taxable income, since someone making 100k+ a year tends to give more (tax) and taking less (spending of tax revenue) than someone making 30k a year.
 
Yes spoken like a true Californian, who's talking about Californian houses, and then those who can afford the payments on Californian houses. I'm not saying this is a feasible plan across the whole country, because I absolutely agree with your premise, someone in a 200-250k area 35k is a harder pill to swallow.

And yes in CA you can sell power back to the grid, the exact rules of it depend upon when you do it, new Solar must be on a ToU schedule though IIRC.

Given that median household income in SanFran is 78k I am not sure I agree with saying its affordable in that area either. Unless your premise is that home ownership in that area is limited to the top, oh lets say, 10%?
 
I don't see the draw myself. The dollar gets me far more where I live, i'm not surrounded by people, and I make good money doing what I do.

Your average person living in CA seems to agree with me given that more people are leaving CA instead of entering. Same thing is happening to all of these states with insane taxes and laughable politics.


This is a fairy tail government hating conservatives like to tell themselves because they need a higher tax state like California to be a failure to prop up their political dogma about the intrinsic inferiority of a more liberal governance model. I never used to be a big cheerleader for the state, or any other until after I heard the relentless California bashing that just smacked of sour grapes. For anyone that wants to leave, don't let the door hit you on the way out, you will be replaced, and often by someone making more than you ever did with even better job prospects. The biggest cost in California is housing for most people, not taxes, and that can be fixed or addressed by increasing the housing supply. If anyone prefers even lower costs there are cities all across the country that might be a better fit.

But this trash talk about tax rates being the driver of where people move, or perhaps not wanting too many crazy California style regulations? That talk tells me the people have no clue. Density is it's own magnet. And it's all those big fat blue liberal cities and metro areas that are driving the economic growth of the nation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/resi...aws.com/public/X7EALKZDEY6XNKXI7WTR653MWU.jpg

Those Liberal cities and metro areas are almost always higher cost than surrounding conservative areas, have higher taxes and more regulations that restrict the freedom of men and companies, and yet those denser and more liberal counties generated around 2/3 of the gdp of the nation. Don't like California, fine, go to Texas, but it's still the more liberal cities and metro areas that are more economically thriving. The main exception is areas tied to fossil fuel extraction, where money is literally dug out of the ground. But a place like California? Long coasts and good weather and lots of schools are magnets to higher skilled people to come from all over the nation and the world. And those people, are more than enough to prop up the state and allow it to thrive. We still have problems, cost of living, housing chief among those is a problem, but it's a solvable problem.
 
California is once again the fifth largest economy in the world (passing the UK). It sends up so much more federal tax dollars than the next state it's ridiculous (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/17databk.pdf - page 11). The four states ahead of it alphabetically in the list (Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas) combined is barely a quarter of what California sends. I just don't see this California is sinking myth that many here spout every time something about it is posted. It really is laughable all this talk about California failing and dying.
 
California is once again the fifth largest economy in the world (passing the UK). It sends up so much more federal tax dollars than the next state it's ridiculous (https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/17databk.pdf - page 11). The four states ahead of it alphabetically in the list (Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas) combined is barely a quarter of what California sends. I just don't see this California is sinking myth that many here spout every time something about it is posted. It really is laughable all this talk about California failing and dying.

Federal != state

It’s the state itself that is running in the red.

Anyone that relocates will continue paying federal taxes and contributing. So this is really an irrelevant point of discussion.
 
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This is a fairy tail government hating conservatives like to tell themselves because they need a higher tax state like California to be a failure to prop up their political dogma about the intrinsic inferiority of a more liberal governance model. I never used to be a big cheerleader for the state, or any other until after I heard the relentless California bashing that just smacked of sour grapes. For anyone that wants to leave, don't let the door hit you on the way out, you will be replaced, and often by someone making more than you ever did with even better job prospects. The biggest cost in California is housing for most people, not taxes, and that can be fixed or addressed by increasing the housing supply. If anyone prefers even lower costs there are cities all across the country that might be a better fit.

But this trash talk about tax rates being the driver of where people move, or perhaps not wanting too many crazy California style regulations? That talk tells me the people have no clue. Density is it's own magnet. And it's all those big fat blue liberal cities and metro areas that are driving the economic growth of the nation.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/resi...aws.com/public/X7EALKZDEY6XNKXI7WTR653MWU.jpg

Those Liberal cities and metro areas are almost always higher cost than surrounding conservative areas, have higher taxes and more regulations that restrict the freedom of men and companies, and yet those denser and more liberal counties generated around 2/3 of the gdp of the nation. Don't like California, fine, go to Texas, but it's still the more liberal cities and metro areas that are more economically thriving. The main exception is areas tied to fossil fuel extraction, where money is literally dug out of the ground. But a place like California? Long coasts and good weather and lots of schools are magnets to higher skilled people to come from all over the nation and the world. And those people, are more than enough to prop up the state and allow it to thrive. We still have problems, cost of living, housing chief among those is a problem, but it's a solvable problem.

What’s the magic button you push to increase housing supply when property taxes and insane regulations like requiring solar panels on all new builds drive the costs out of the affordable range for the normal person?

This isn’t difficult to figure out, but keep enacting more regulations that only the rich can afford to either step around or deal with.
 
Federal != state

It’s the state itself that is running in the red.

Anyone that relocates will continue paying federal taxes and contributing. So this is really an irrelevant point of discussion.

It's not irrelevant because it's a reflection of how much the state is also able to collect. And you're assuming that people are leaving the state which is pure conjecture. Per Census Bureau estimates California population has increased by over two million since 2010.
 
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As a home owner, I had to ignore $300K plus homes. In order to obtain high costs homes, I will need to improve my income some how. Rather it be better employment, invention or meeting willing demands. The truth is, I purchased a house when the market crashed and obtained my house for $57k after all the repairs. This was the only way I could realistic get a home. Now my area is being flooded with losers and druggies. I have put a bunch of them in prison, the only real way is to get a more expensive/safer home that OTHERS can't afford. You will usually avoid problems or live in a remote area. The market puts my home value around $160k. I am sitting on $100k equity at the moment. The druggies and losers are really hammering the value of my home.

APS in my area is a monopoly and no mercy is given to their users.

America has become a joke as the newer generation takes over. I do not have high hopes for our future.
 
Given that median household income in SanFran is 78k I am not sure I agree with saying its affordable in that area either. Unless your premise is that home ownership in that area is limited to the top, oh lets say, 10%?
The median (average) person in San Francisco can not afford to buy a home... at least in San Francisco. Although the avg price for a 1 bedroom apartment is more than the mortgage payment you showed. And my argument was about those who can afford a house
 
20% down is almost never required anymore, FHA loans are 3% down plus some closing costs. Buyers of my previous home we just sold at right around 260k paid a tad under 10k total, we covered some of the closing costs though. 20% down now is for stuff like jumbo loans, and straight up conventional financing like second homes, vacation homes etc. House I'm in currently, we put 15% down, but only because it was jumbo mortgage. It's doable talk to a mortgage guy, home ownership might be easier than you think.

Not only is the California market incredibly expensive, it's incredibly competitive. Low down payments, mortgage assistance, etc, all lower the probability of you even getting an accepted offer, even if you want to throw away thousands on PMI. The Bay Area, the most expensive housing market in the nation? Something like a quarter of homes purchases are cash offers. So while it's technically possible, it decreases your market of homes you can purchase even more.

While I support solar mandates in theory, the housing crisis in CA is insane. Anything that adds cost across the board, or limits new housing being built, is a terrible idea right now.
 
Move...the problem with your generation isn't that owning a home is too hard it is that many of you seem to rule out moving to an area that isn't retardedly expensive. On my income, sure I couldn't afford to live in an area where the average home is 500k+, but I certainly have no difficulties owning a home where a 2000+ SF on an acre and a half cost me 169k. I've grown tired of listening to people moan about the prices of houses and in the same breath act like moving anywhere else is akin to moving out of the damn country.

Edit: Also on topic as I forgot..This has got to be one of the most braindead mandates I've ever seen. Forcing solar doesn't help anything. Not Every home is positioned in a way where it can take advantage of it. What if I happen to like..Trees.

While I agree people should move, it's a bit more of a complex problem. Small-mid sized companies continue to go out of business, while larger conglomerates make up more and more of the job market. The old adage about small businesses being the major job creators in this country isn't true anymore. With these large companies centralizing their main back-office managerial and knowledge-based positions that make decent money, only the retail/offsite location service jobs that don't pay jack are widely distributed.

Further, with job security being nonexistent, it can be a huge financial burden to move to a new state, city, etc, to a one-company town for the type of work you do, then be laid off and have to do it again. So again, while it's more expensive, it can make more sense to try and stick around a more high-cost area because you have many more employer options. Less expensive house but higher risk of being unemployed, vs more expensive house but many employment options.

It's rough out there, and I say that doing very well but considering where the hell I could move to next instead of the SF Bay Area.
 
While I agree people should move, it's a bit more of a complex problem. Small-mid sized companies continue to go out of business, while larger conglomerates make up more and more of the job market. The old adage about small businesses being the major job creators in this country isn't true anymore. With these large companies centralizing their main back-office managerial and knowledge-based positions that make decent money, only the retail/offsite location service jobs that don't pay jack are widely distributed.

Further, with job security being nonexistent, it can be a huge financial burden to move to a new state, city, etc, to a one-company town for the type of work you do, then be laid off and have to do it again. So again, while it's more expensive, it can make more sense to try and stick around a more high-cost area because you have many more employer options. Less expensive house but higher risk of being unemployed, vs more expensive house but many employment options.

It's rough out there, and I say that doing very well but considering where the hell I could move to next instead of the SF Bay Area.

The regulation which CA enacts along with high taxes is a major contributing factor to everything in that area slowly shutting down / turning into massive corporations. They've made the cost to operate out of reach for the small business owner, and this coupled with an attitude of not caring about low skill job creation means that they've been building the current 'liberal' dream where only two classes of people exist; The slaves on welfare, and the technocrat running things from their ivory towers.

I'm glad I moved, and my quality of life is substantially higher now. You just have to be willing to deal with some different weather.
 
It's not irrelevant because it's a reflection of how much the state is also able to collect. And you're assuming that people are leaving the state which is pure conjecture. Per Census Bureau estimates California population has increased by over two million since 2010.

I'm not assuming people are leaving the state. I linked to you the report generated from the state itself which shows they have more leaving then entering when it comes to domestic moves.

Your two million increase does not mean an increase of tax revenue. You have an increase of welfare earners due to the minimum wage laws/regulations pricing low skill workers out of the market, and 'sanctuary state' illegals which vaguely maybe contribute but also take the low skill labor from actual born in US citizens living in your ghettos now receiving welfare. You've also got legit immigration, but these guys/gals are largely taking the skilled high-tech jobs so good for them in my opinion. I don't really give a shit about anyone working in the tech industry who is pro-immigration who then looses their job to someone from India/China/Wherever.

Any US citizen leaving CA for another state is making the best fiscal choice they could make, and will continue contributing federally wherever they choose to relocate to.
 
The regulation which CA enacts along with high taxes is a major contributing factor to everything in that area slowly shutting down / turning into massive corporations. They've made the cost to operate out of reach for the small business owner, and this coupled with an attitude of not caring about low skill job creation means that they've been building the current 'liberal' dream where only two classes of people exist; The slaves on welfare, and the technocrat running things from their ivory towers.

I'm glad I moved, and my quality of life is substantially higher now. You just have to be willing to deal with some different weather.

I'd disagree with that to some extent. You look at the economic performance of the non-coastal states and it hasn't been good; the countries being hollowed-out, essentially, due to a lack of quality jobs in the middle. Sure you can move to a cheaper area, but even with the cheaper cost of living, the equivalent paying jobs make it so living expenses, proportionally, aren't that much easier to pay.

Also, there is a net loss of people in California. However, those moving out are in lower incomes, $50k or less, while those moving in make more money - https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...rices-the-california-exodus-surges-2018-05-03
 
I hope home solar panels have a lifespan far superior to those solar pathway lights I buy. After two years, the panels cloud up and are useless.
 
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