California to Become First US State Mandating Solar on New Homes

PhaseNoise said:
I have never seen a panel which had less than a 20 year guarantee to be working and producing 80% of intial power at that point. Many had a 25 year. Nothing was less than 20 though, so I'm curious where the 1-5 year figure comes from.

As for other generators, yes, large scale solar and wind are great - and of course CA has many of both. Rooftop solar is one more tool in the arsenal.
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I think my assumption, generally, is 1% annual degradation. However, to be more pointed in my response: I see a hell of a lot of panels sold by Chinese companies that I'd bet won't be around in 20 years, or if they are, good luck collecting on that guarantee from a Chinese-owned, state-backed entity in the mainland. Yeah, no.

Edit: the implication of which is they can promise whatever they want.
 
Solar panels on homes are usually a downgrade cosmetically. Solar farms are a better idea.. maintained and controlled by the power companies themselves.. and stick them in death valley (hell maybe even geo thermal)... Just think all those distributed battery farms, and a slight increase of residential fires due to a battery catching fire while the owner is at work.. but then again, even if the panels do last 10-20 years.. the batteries likely wont.

Writing this as I contemplate new energy rates in Texas as my last 2 year plan was $.072 a kwh (dirt cheap), and everything available today is $.11+ (50% increase).. except a provider that is quoting rates of $.088kwh and they brag to be 100% wind.. We have tons of wind farms in West Texas.. years ago, wind was more expensive, and now the providers appear to be cheaper than conventional. I guess that all boils down to the amount of capital investment, mass adaptation, capacity, cost of technology decreasing, and the technology becoming more efficient.
 
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Wonder what this plan will do to insurance rates? I am sure Cali is a lot lower hail risk then Oklahoma, but having a large fragile target on your roof doesn't seem like a totally good idea. In OK, a fair percent of roofs never survive their expected roof material lifespan due to being dented by baseball sized hail.
 
swetmore said:
Solar panels on homes are usually a downgrade cosmetically. Solar farms are a better idea.. maintained and controlled by the power companies themselves.. and stick them in death valley (hell maybe even geo thermal)... Just think all those distributed battery farms, and a slight increase of residential fires due to a battery catching fire while the owner is at work.. but then again, even if the panels do last 10-20 years.. the batteries likely wont.

Writing this as I contemplate new energy rates in Texas as my last 2 year plan was $.072 a kwh (dirt cheap), and everything available today is $.11+ (50% increase).. except a provider that is quoting rates of $.088kwh and they brag to be 100% wind.. We have tons of wind farms in West Texas.. years ago, wind was more expensive, and now the providers appear to be cheaper than conventional. I guess that all boils down to the amount of capital investment, mass adaptation, capacity, cost of technology decreasing, and the technology becoming more efficient.
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And a $.03/kWh production tax credit. Just. Maybe.
 
Joust said:
I think my assumption, generally, is 1% annual degradation. However, to be more pointed in my response: I see a hell of a lot of panels sold by Chinese companies that I'd bet won't be around in 20 years, or if they are, good luck collecting on that guarantee from a Chinese-owned, state-backed entity in the mainland. Yeah, no.

Edit: the implication of which is they can promise whatever they want.
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Yeah, well, if the US hadn't shunned (and continues to shun) investment in solar power development, the industry wouldn't be dominated by Chinese solar panels. The Chinese poured tons of money into one-upping us on that. Pretty smart for them. Sucks for us.
 
cjcox said:
And remember, 99.999% of the folks in California that "talk green" drive 8-14mpg large SUVs daily.
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And don't forget 99% of Californians who are pro-solar are actually reverse double vampires!

See I can make up random shit that's absolutely false on the spot too.
 
UrielDagda said:
Yeah, well, if the US hadn't shunned (and continues to shun) investment in solar power development, the industry wouldn't be dominated by Chinese solar panels. The Chinese poured tons of money into one-upping us on that. Pretty smart for them. Sucks for us.
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State-backed manufacturing, a very inexpensive workforce, lack of serious environmental regulation... exactly how is it that you propose the US was going to be price competitive? The Germans went in big time and it didn't work out at all.
 
zamardii12 said:
Nice try citing a source with no date on the article. Here is one from February of last year that clearly shows that home ownership is at a 50 year low.

http://time.com/money/4665272/mortgage-homeownership-racial-gap-discrimination-inequality/

and here's another

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/28/mil...-rate-to-drop-to-lowest-level-since-1965.html

and another if you want something directly from the government census posted this year...

https://www.census.gov/housing/hvs/files/currenthvspress.pdf

Look at the graph for "Median Asking Rent for Vacant for Rent Units: 1995-2018."

Right now the Median is $954. 10 year ago in 2008 it was around $700 and 10 years before that in 1998 it was around $425. When my ex and I moved into a apartment together about 7 years ago we could rent in the same town a 2 bedroom 2 bath apartment for $780 a month. Now that same apartment in the same place is $1250.

The per-hour rate that I got hired at the company I work for now was the same as my colleague who started 17 years ago. If wages had kept up with inflation then I should have started at around 24% more. I renegotiated my pay after the first year and was only given 2%. And this is a IT job that I would not have even been considered for had I not gone to college.
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1995 to 2018 isn't even outside this generation let alone parents or grandparents generations as was being discussed.
 
zamardii12 said:
Great... more unnecessary increased costs in housing. I swear our generation has it harder than our parents' (i'm 31). I don't see myself ever owning a house.
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Move...the problem with your generation isn't that owning a home is too hard it is that many of you seem to rule out moving to an area that isn't retardedly expensive. On my income, sure I couldn't afford to live in an area where the average home is 500k+, but I certainly have no difficulties owning a home where a 2000+ SF on an acre and a half cost me 169k. I've grown tired of listening to people moan about the prices of houses and in the same breath act like moving anywhere else is akin to moving out of the damn country.

Edit: Also on topic as I forgot..This has got to be one of the most braindead mandates I've ever seen. Forcing solar doesn't help anything. Not Every home is positioned in a way where it can take advantage of it. What if I happen to like..Trees.
 
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sfsuphysics said:
...although I'm not sure why hydro really fits here since you can effectively let the power go, or send it to the grid but whatever I'll admit beyond the fundamentals I don't know how hydro works.
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Hydro is pretty cool, the power that isn't used get's stored and is used to pump water back up to reservoir at night. It is a fairly constant baseline, except in extreme droughts... which California is known for.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Move...the problem with your generation isn't that owning a home is too hard it is that many of you seem to rule out moving to an area that isn't retardedly expensive. On my income, sure I couldn't afford to live in an area where the average home is 500k+, but I certainly have no difficulties owning a home where a 2000+ SF on an acre and a half cost me 169k. I've grown tired of listening to people moan about the prices of houses and in the same breath act like moving anywhere else is akin to moving out of the damn country.
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I really dislike your broad generalizations. All I am pointing out is that the cost of living has gone up an incredible amount. Instead of talking rationally why go the direction of ,"well, just move." So I have lived currently where I have lived all my life. My parents are here, friends, family... so I just up and move... that's the answer from people who don't have this issue. And I fucking HATE it when people generalize my generation or hell, make any sort of generalization because we are all different and all in different situations. I fucking hate it when older people say I shouldn't or aren't allowed to complain. Fuck off. Honestly speaking, once I get married this year and I graduate college next year I am moving but that doesn't mean I can't point out a observation that I have found in my own area and the changes I have noticed growing up here the last 31 years. It's just a fact that housing for young people has gone way up here (i'm in Florida btw) and yet there are more 55 and up communities popping up everywhere with nothing affordable for younger folks except to find room-mates which I have been doing since being in college.

I really dislike the complete ignorance and dismissiveness of comments such as yours from people. I worked 3 jobs to survive back before I met my first wife. I worked 3 jobs and tired myself out doing it, and I didn't complain but I went to college to get involved in a field I knew I could make more money in... computers. Well, I am in the field now and working on finishing my Bachelor's degree and still struggling b/c even though I make more money working 1 job than 3 I still can't afford my own apartment. And guess what, the ones I can afford are income restricted and I make just over the income restrictions of these places. It just pisses me off which is why i'm getting the fuck out of here next year hopefully.
 
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Dekoth-E- said:
Move...the problem with your generation isn't that owning a home is too hard it is that many of you seem to rule out moving to an area that isn't retardedly expensive. On my income, sure I couldn't afford to live in an area where the average home is 500k+, but I certainly have no difficulties owning a home where a 2000+ SF on an acre and a half cost me 169k. I've grown tired of listening to people moan about the prices of houses and in the same breath act like moving anywhere else is akin to moving out of the damn country.
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Certain industries do not exist outside of heavily populated areas, it's not that simple. Moving out means dealing with 2+ hour commutes in each direction to remain in the same industry. I don't know about you, but there is no way I can handle 4 hours of commute a day.
 
Tsumi said:
Certain industries do not exist outside of heavily populated areas, it's not that simple. Moving out means dealing with 2+ hour commutes in each direction to remain in the same industry. I don't know about you, but there is no way I can handle 4 hours of commute a day.
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I also had to do this. When I moved out of my city when I was married to a smaller town about a hour south of where I was I could afford the housing, but even that has almost doubled in price now and I was tired of making that stupid drive every day for years. The area that I am in is dead and I can't wait to leave regardless of all my friends and family being here. Just not enough opportunity.
 
sfsuphysics said:
And don't forget 99% of Californians who are pro-solar are actually reverse double vampires!

See I can make up random shit that's absolutely false on the spot too.
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Sorry. I obviously greatly offended you. I guess the SUV isn't the most popular car in California (all lies I say!)
 
zamardii12 said:
I really dislike your broad generalizations. All I am pointing out is that the cost of living has gone a incredible amount. Instead of talking rationally why go the direction of ,"well, just move." So I have lived currently where I have lived all my life. My parents are here, friends, family... so I just up and move... Honestly speaking, once I get married this year and I graduate college in a year I am moving but that doesn't mean I can't point out a observation that I have found in my own area and the changes I have noticed growing up here the last 31 years. It's just a fact that housing for young people has gone way up here (i'm in Florida btw) and yet there are more 55 and up communities popping up everywhere with nothing affordable for younger folks except to find room-mates which I have been doing since being in college.
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I mean the fact of the matter is, there are options. You might not like them, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. I do agree that prices have gone up, but the thing that everyone seems to ignore is that the biggest areas where people complain are also the areas that have had the most explosive population growth. Some of it is inflation and wages not keeping up sure, but not all of it.

Tsumi said:
Certain industries do not exist outside of heavily populated areas, it's not that simple. Moving out means dealing with 2+ hour commutes in each direction to remain in the same industry. I don't know about you, but there is no way I can handle 4 hours of commute a day.
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You are right, but that is simply a problem you have to learn to deal with. If your industry cannot pay a wage that is livable in an area it is time to move. I just left an area 6 months ago because the wages for my preferred job were an absolute joke. I had bought a house up there because I had moved up with a company position, one that went away some years ago. I didn't like the market, so I moved back to an area where the wages match what I want to make and allow me to maintain a certain level of living. I've done 4+ hours of commute a day for years..honestly I don't see the big deal. Turn on some music, put in a book on tape, do something productive with the time or just relax. Again if you don't like the commute, start job searching. Can't find a job in your preferred field? Well that is how the job market works sometimes. I've done more different types of jobs than I can count over the years, many I didn't like but were necessary to keep moving forward. Sure it would be nice to have the job I love, but sometimes you just gotta grow up and do what it takes to keep moving forward.
 
Go for it Cali. I can't wait until Trump completes the border wall and makes cali a prison state.

I mean I can *almost* understand why anyone would pay that much to live there (seriously, the weather is pretty great) but then you have to go to the store for anything and encounter normal social interactions and DAMN the people that live there are annoying. I couldn't live next to your average LA or San Diego resident, even if you paid me just to occupy a house. If you bought before the prices hit plaid... GTFO! (And then laugh all the way to the bank.)
 
LMAO! Like it's going to lower utility costs for the homeowner!! When PSEG realized that they were losing revenue from all the LED lights & CFL's they increased the rates! Fucking shitbags! And it's not like you can cut the cable and go solo! they'll still charge you!
 
Yeah sorry, I just don't see this working out. California already has severe problems state wide with income vs cost of living. Increasing the cost of living without any plans to increase income isn't going to improve anything.

http://calbudgetcenter.org/resources/californians-parts-state-pay-can-afford-housing/ said:
Unaffordable housing costs particularly affect renters, and also affect a substantial share of homeowners with mortgages. More than half of renter households and more than a third of mortgage holders paid over 30 percent of income toward housing in 2015.
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30% is the accepted magic number of most every financial institution that I know of because if you are spending more than that on one bill, you wont have enough for the remaining monthly expenditures. It's an even more critical metric for governments looking to grow or maintain stability because people living paycheck to paycheck aren't spending additional money on non-necessities which is critical for job retention and growth.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
I mean the fact of the matter is, there are options. You might not like them, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. I do agree that prices have gone up, but the thing that everyone seems to ignore is that the biggest areas where people complain are also the areas that have had the most explosive population growth. Some of it is inflation and wages not keeping up sure, but not all of it.
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I am not disagreeing with you on that at all. What I don't like are the generalizations made by people who don't understand individual circumstances. I've worked very hard all my life, and where I am in Florida there is no population growth... at least not one to justify the doubling of housing costs i've experienced since i've been on my own the last 12 years. The only population growth here is that old people come here to die. I suppose you can call that population growth, but not a positive population growth and the housing market caters to them. I honestly just want to get married and get the fuck out of here, but I am stuck here until I finish with school.
 
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zamardii12 said:
I am not disagreeing with you on that at all. What I don't like are the generalizations made by people who don't understand individual circumstances. I've worked very hard all my life, and where I am in Florida there is no population growth... at least not one to justify the doubling of housing costs i've experience since i've been on my own the last 12 years. The only population growth here is that old people come here to die. I suppose you can call that population growth, but not a positive population growth and the housing market caters to them. I honestly just want to get married and get the fuck out of here, but I am stuck here until I finish with school.
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I'm from Fla originally and am well familiar with the older population boom. Fact is, population growth is population growth. A person taking up space in a house is a person taking up space. It doesn't matter if they are 1 or 101. In Fla especially there is a hard limit on the amount of residential space. If more people are looking to buy (there are) than there is space to sell, prices are going to go up. In the specific case of Fla this is especially problematic because retiree's generally have excellent credit and plenty of money so it is difficult to contest them.
 
zamardii12 said:
Great... more unnecessary increased costs in housing. I swear our generation has it harder than our parents' (i'm 31). I don't see myself ever owning a house.
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By historical standards, housing is cheap when viewed as a percentage of what a person makes over the cost of a year. At least near me housing costs about 3.5x my yearly salary; the same area my father brought a house when it cost 7x.
 
Leaders of this world were smart to get out ahead of the coming weather and epidemic disasters.
As all countries do they feed the people lies and create false enemies to steer populations
in the direction they want. Unfortanently the leaders will not be able to stop climate change and epidemics but they will offer a solution to the unimaginable world wide crisis. The gods they follow of old "IHS" will steer the world to blame those for the disasters in the same fashion as Nero and past leaders. The leaders made CO2 one of the new enemies to sell to the public. But they have allowed an estimated 30 trillion tons of wasted to be pumped into the ground in the USA alone. The very government that claims to care for the environment has and is still using DU weapons scattering 1000's of tons of radioactive waste. There is no solution for climate change as presented by the world leaders under the watchful darkened right eye of the Superior General. But they can make alot of money from it and ultimately remove all freedoms world wide by it. Humanity as a whole could have been a better caretaker as instructed but that time has long passed.
 
firas said:
crazy prices :eek:
something similar but with smaller numbers happens in my country (Jordan), average monthly salary is around $600 (though I think 80% of the population are way lower than that), and my 220 square meters (2,368 sqft) home on the 4th floor costs around $170000. my father owns the building. otherwise I would spend 80 years to afford it.

10000 sqft land cost starts from $150000 (very bad area far from anything) to $700000 (my area) up to 7 million dollars and more!!!
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Average salary here in Orange County California is $53,000.
Average home price $675,000
Try the math, it doesn't work. Even if you have 20% down and two people making $53,000, you still can't quality for the loan. You have to be earning a lot more.
 
Spazilton said:
20% down is almost never required anymore, FHA loans are 3% down plus some closing costs. Buyers of my previous home we just sold at right around 260k paid a tad under 10k total, we covered some of the closing costs though. 20% down now is for stuff like jumbo loans, and straight up conventional financing like second homes, vacation homes etc. House I'm in currently, we put 15% down, but only because it was jumbo mortgage. It's doable talk to a mortgage guy, home ownership might be easier than you think.
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If you can't put at least 10% down you can't afford the house and you are a default risk. That's why you end up paying mortgage insurance (PMI) with anything less than 20% down.

My 1st place I put 14% down (most I could afford). After a few years of paying down the principal (and an increase in value of the house), I was abled to get the PMI dropped.

My current home I put down the full 20%.
No PMI, no impound account for taxes, etc. Saved me a lot of money over the years. Money that I used to pay down the mortgage, saving me even more money.
 
PhaseNoise said:
You're touching on one of the main thrusts of solar power in CA - air conditioning. Our biggest cause of rolling blackouts (by far) is a very hot day causing a massive spike in AC usage far exceeding normal "baseline" generator capacity. Having a form of electricity generation which tracks pretty well with this need is a really nice addition to the generation panoply. Unlike some areas of the country, CA has low humidity so hot days are highly correlated with intense sunshine. We also have zero rain (and little cloud cover) from May until October.

While not ideal, there are actively-used ways of recapturing at least some of the excess power generated when demand isn't high. For example, the dual-reservoir technique - pump water to the higher altitude when there is surplus or cheap power, reclaim via turbines when there is demand. Excess power isn't just being used for bitcoin mining. :)

Don't take any of this as some partisan defense of CA's intended policies. I don't know that I have a good opinion on that. But solar power in CA makes more sense than it does in other places, for some of the reasons mentioned above.
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I'm familiar with hydro storage and flywheel storage (it's not turbines). The problem is, this sort of capacity is already in use, to capture this sort of power, the grid-runners would have to build MORE.
Where's the investment incentive?

And yes, I agree with you, California's one of those places where it DOES make more sense.
The main issue is, without the storage component, it's just wasting resources, power, time and money.
 
sfsuphysics said:
Good point, now lets look at California's power production
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_California
Coal, the state has 1 power plant, with a 55 MW capacity
Nuclear, the state has 1 with 2240 MW capacity
Geothermal, the state has a handful with a capacity of 1457 MW
Hydro, the state has a crap ton with 6235 MW capacity
So that's the extent of the state's "baseline", just under 10,000 MW, although I'm not sure why hydro really fits here since you can effectively let the power go, or send it to the grid but whatever I'll admit beyond the fundamentals I don't know how hydro works.

Then we are the natural gas fired power plants of the state which add up to over 27000 MW of capacity

http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/default.aspx
Shows the actual demand of the state, the least predicted demand at 4am is 20000 MW
The bottom graph shows a real time demand structure, and including all the solar/wind generation the minimum demand was still over 12000 MW, so the "STEADY OUTPUT" power sources still are deficient by about 20%. California seems to have a fair share of "fired up quickly" power at it's disposal.
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1: The state's been decommissioning nuclear plants for a while now. And, for California, I can kinda understand. Building nuclear reactors on top of a fault zone is...like...playing Russian Roulette with a magazine-fed pistol.

About the only "safe-ish" place to build would be in extreme North-Western California. And even then you have a couple of volcanoes in the area. Not to mention that Northern California land prices (and the people living there) would do their best to make it completely uneconomical.

2: The state's hydro capacity is slowly decreasing over time. The environmental movements are pushing to tear down dams as "ecologically damaging". Also, water rights are becoming valuable for reasons beyond power generation. And with lower quantities of water coming down the Colorado River, Hoover/Boulder Dam is coming closer and closer to shutdown, as the level of Lake Mead draws close to the level of the intake pipes for the dam.

3: It also doesn't help that California's politicians and regulators were absolute fucking morons about how they de-regulated power in the state. It actually became a viable business transaction to sell power out-of-state to a subsidiary, because they weren't allowed to charge more in-state, and then have the subsidiary sell the power back into the state on a higher scale! And these numbnuts were TOLD that something like this was going to happen!

Honestly, if this measure was a "Solar + Battery" setup with a smart connection to the grid? I might still bitch about house pricing, but I'd have no real, technical bitches about it. AT ALL. Well, maybe outside of where they were going to GET all those batteries...

The main problem with the current proposition is that solar production "peaks" in an uncontrolled manner at the wrong time of day, with insufficient storage options. So most of that power is going to waste.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
Move...the problem with your generation isn't that owning a home is too hard it is that many of you seem to rule out moving to an area that isn't retardedly expensive. On my income, sure I couldn't afford to live in an area where the average home is 500k+, but I certainly have no difficulties owning a home where a 2000+ SF on an acre and a half cost me 169k. I've grown tired of listening to people moan about the prices of houses and in the same breath act like moving anywhere else is akin to moving out of the damn country.

Edit: Also on topic as I forgot..This has got to be one of the most braindead mandates I've ever seen. Forcing solar doesn't help anything. Not Every home is positioned in a way where it can take advantage of it. What if I happen to like..Trees.
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Yes. But commute is also part of the value proposition.

Are YOU prepared for a 12 hour round trip EVERY DAY or living in a van in the Google parking lot until you have enough to ACTUALLY buy a home (not just make the down payment) in the area?
 
Cool. More reasons to never consider moving to California. I don't understand the people that insist on living in CA and even New York. What you pay to live middle class there you can live like a king in Texas.
 
FlawleZ said:
Cool. More reasons to never consider moving to California. I don't understand the people that insist on living in CA and even New York. What you pay to live middle class there you can live like a king in Texas.
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Been to Texas, definitely prefer California weather. Also, you don't need to get out of California to get away from high prices, simply heading two hours out (without traffic) from the SF Bay Area would get you into equivalently cheap areas. Stockton, Sacramento, Fresno, and the areas in between all have much lower priced homes because the land is much cheaper.
 
seanreisk said:
Too often the left is unable to see the heavy hand they use to shape their vision.
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Funny how the right is always maligned for their heavy handed ways but not the left. Not enough people demanding solar? Force them. Not enough people avoiding transfat oil? Ban it. Not enough people asking about calories on fast food items? Regulate menu boards. I remember seeing an interview with a nutritional advocate on a news program. The question was, why not simply make a printed nutritional chart available for the asking? The answer was, people are too ignorant to ask so we need to basically shove it in their face.
 
I do love a back in my day arguments, but there is no question, housing is too expensive. In some sense fine by me as i am an owner now, but even owning it becomes more expensive, taxes go up, insurance goes up shit like that. 'Just Move' to the middle of nowhere is not the answer to anything. To the guy considering moving solely due to house prices, i would say think about it, hard! Very hard if the wife also has family around.... I moved, no family support around me.. it sucks in many ways, specially when you have kids, shit, it gets difficult, things that a grandma would help a lot in. Look into foreclosures and tax foreclosure.. also a chunk of land maybe if at all possible.
 
Chas said:
Yes. But commute is also part of the value proposition.

Are YOU prepared for a 12 hour round trip EVERY DAY or living in a van in the Google parking lot until you have enough to ACTUALLY buy a home (not just make the down payment) in the area?
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No, why do you think I said move and then followed up by saying "I moved" when the value proposition in my area became unacceptable? There is nothing that makes me so attached to an area that I would rather live in a car or a shitty apartment because the wages aren't high enough. There are far too many area's in the country where I can do something, even if it isn't exactly what I want to do and live comfortably. I started out being a custom PC builder and servicer. I would have loved to continue doing that. Unfortunately that job doesn't exist anymore due to big box stores eliminating all profit margin and dipshit "Techs" whos only actual skill is install and run AV or reinstall windows tanking service calls down to $25. So I moved on. I've been a BA, PM, Network Admin and various levels of manager over the years. The job I love is building PC's but it isn't the job that pays the bills. I didn't cry over it, I just did what was necessary to survive. I've moved more times than I can count ranging from Little rock, to San Antonio to Rochester NY, Orlando Fla and Atlanta Ga. I go where I can make money and live comfortably. We live in the future where Video calls and family are a button push away. I see no reason not to take advantage of that. When I first moved out cell phones were barely even a thing yet and video calls were the stuff of Popular Mechanics.
 
dr_drift said:
Not trying to be a dick, but if you can afford the rig in your signature, you could probably have saved enough for a down payment on a modest house, depending on where you live.
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I'd file that under maybe. Up here in Ontario, Canada that's a big nope if you need to live anywhere close to Toronto. I don't mean the city itself. Even the surrounding areas are a joke.

I live about an hour's commute from work, bought my home back in 2009. Deep lot, 1100 sq. Ft., detached garage for the price of $187k. Great deal even then, but man she needed a LOT of work. Now I'm looking at a value of around $350k....and I'm quite a ways from the Toronto area. Even nearby, my home would easily fetch over $1m.

Next up we recently had rule changes to mortgages. This was to try to bring an out of control housing market down. The rules are tougher and you must have a 20% down-payment. So on a $1m home, that's $200k. Nobody has that. These rules have only dropped cost of the higher end homes and made the cost of starter homes go up.

Now most younger people rent and pay more than what the mortgage and taxes would cost.

If his case is anywhere near this, an expensive rig wouldn't have made a difference. I think at that point you might as well enjoy some of your money, can't reasonably save up for the home.

I consider myself to be very lucky to have gotten my home before all this nonsense started. I'm not much older BTW, I've just been very lucky to have had good jobs and I save my money well.
 
Dekoth-E- said:
No, why do you think I said move and then followed up by saying "I moved" when the value proposition in my area became unacceptable? There is nothing that makes me so attached to an area that I would rather live in a car or a shitty apartment because the wages aren't high enough. There are far too many area's in the country where I can do something, even if it isn't exactly what I want to do and live comfortably. I started out being a custom PC builder and servicer. I would have loved to continue doing that. Unfortunately that job doesn't exist anymore due to big box stores eliminating all profit margin and dipshit "Techs" whos only actual skill is install and run AV or reinstall windows tanking service calls down to $25. So I moved on. I've been a BA, PM, Network Admin and various levels of manager over the years. The job I love is building PC's but it isn't the job that pays the bills. I didn't cry over it, I just did what was necessary to survive. I've moved more times than I can count ranging from Little rock, to San Antonio to Rochester NY, Orlando Fla and Atlanta Ga. I go where I can make money and live comfortably. We live in the future where Video calls and family are a button push away. I see no reason not to take advantage of that. When I first moved out cell phones were barely even a thing yet and video calls were the stuff of Popular Mechanics.
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Maybe you enjoyed moving, and stuff like that, I don't know... but in the end your post reads more to me about how much the country is sucking economically, than an argument about how adaptable you are, and how adaptable you think everyone should be.
 
zamardii12 said:
Median Home value in my county is $250,000.

So $1200 on a computer I saved up for over 6 months and that I will be using for at least 5 years through college and my one source of entertainment equates to a $50,000 down-payment on a house? You are being a dick.

There is 0 question that the money we make today does not go as far as our parents or grandparents.
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Move. Your feet have roots or some shit? You sound like some entitled little shit that doesn't want to put forth the effort towards a better life.
 
Riccochet said:
Move. Your feet have roots or some shit? You sound like some entitled little shit that doesn't want to put forth the effort towards a better life.
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Wanting to live with family = entitled little shit, what a fucking sad country.. but I am sure you don't even understand why is that... This coming from a person that 'moved' so i guess i am not an entitled little shit, maybe i should have been.
 
6 months was 1200 right? so 2400 x 6 years = enough to purchase a decent enough first time buyer house. Let it increase in value, make some additions and flip for profit. Have to get started somewhere. Use a tablet or your phone. Check out Dave Ramseys works, you would be impressed, and can still be very well off in your later life (not saying you won’t be already), he’s absolutely fantastic.

Joust said:
If you had a Tesla (as in P100D) in your sig,


I'm not so sure that a $1200 tool indicates a lifestyle beyond means, nor fiscal irresponsibility. If he had a Tesla P100D in his signature, then that's potentially a different consideration.

The original argument, that as a whole the millennials are under-achieving their parents as a function of spending power at an equivalent point in life/career is valid and quantitatively verifiable.
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Riccochet said:
Move. Your feet have roots or some shit? You sound like some entitled little shit that doesn't want to put forth the effort towards a better life.
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Go look at my previous posts in this thread. I won't even answer you because you aren't worth it.
 
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