Don't Buy a MacBook Pro, Even On Sale

Liver said:
Oh. But Liver we are bashing Apple don’t ask me inconvenient questions.
Click to expand...

Don't get too sensitive about it. Everyone's favorite tech company gets a certain amount of shit. Microsoft gets a least as much as Apple even in a place like this. And the odd thing is be it Apple or Microsoft or Facebook, Google and Amazon of the big five I don't think generate the same level of visceral hate, they are all rolling in dough. And the typical response is "You're stupid." Then the counter is "Show me something better." and then the counter to the counter is "You're stupid."

It's as predictable as the weather. And I'm not saying that none of these companies don't do stupid things, but with all of them having over half a trillion in valuation, a lot of it is just plain envy.
 
B00nie said:
Weirdly enough I have owned 4 macbooks over a period of 10 years and I never - not even a single time have had to use any services from Apple with them.
Click to expand...

Before the latest units with the gawd-awful keyboards I would have been right there with you. For the first time a friend asked about buying a new laptop and I told him either stick with the MacBook Air, the 2015 MacBook Pro (which Apple still sells as new - the only non-touchbar MacBook Pro) or get something other than a Mac notebook.

It's a really sad time to be a Mac fan right now :(
 
DocNo said:
Before the latest units with the gawd-awful keyboards I would have been right there with you. For the first time a friend asked about buying a new laptop and I told him either stick with the MacBook Air, the 2015 MacBook Pro (which Apple still sells as new - the only non-touchbar MacBook Pro) or get something other than a Mac notebook.

It's a really sad time to be a Mac fan right now :(
Click to expand...

When it comes to x86 devices these days, where is Apple doing anything interesting? They just aren't even trying in that space these days, even with laptops where they were long the king of cool. I'm looking here writing this post on my 15" Surface Book 2. Not at all perfect device but when it comes to laptops or general purpose x86 devices, for all of this failure of Windows 8.x/10 it's kind of odd just how much Microsoft innovated in a space they didn't enter until 6 years ago.

Apple isn't going anywhere with its resources and it has the resources to do whatever. But when it comes to x86 devices they are going to have to take some risks I think.
 
heatlesssun said:
When it comes to x86 devices these days, where is Apple doing anything interesting? They just aren't even trying in that space these days
Click to expand...

I heartily agree. There was a time where they were by far the best and most reliable laptops. Capable too - you saw lots of people running Windows and Linux on them that needed gobs of RAM. The latest generation have been a complete bust for power users. They blame it on lack of support from Intel for lower power DRAM - but on a high end laptop who the hell cares?!? I'll plug it in.

The obsession with thin and lack of cords has seriously affected their ability to design anything with reasonable performance or capabilities.

Like I said, a horrible time to be a Mac fan these days :(
 
DocNo said:
I heartily agree. There was a time where they were by far the best and most reliable laptops. Capable too - you saw lots of people running Windows and Linux on them that needed gobs of RAM.
Click to expand...

I think that for far too long PC OEMs were racing to the bottom to push volume to make sales and that model eventually collapsed. No matter the product there is almost always a solid market for more than the cheapest and more basic good. Apple has almost always stayed away from the bottom and targeted lower volume and far more profitable hardware. And there's no denying the success of that strategy. It worked well with laptops and in phones it made Apple the most valuable company in the world today.
 
I don't know why they can't at least put in the minimal effort and drop in the latest CPU, GPU, WLAN and monitor tech and call it good until they have something innovative.

They don't even have to change the model. Dell doesn't.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
I don't know why they can't at least put in the minimal effort and drop in the latest CPU, GPU, WLAN and monitor tech and call it good until they have something innovative.

They don't even have to change the model. Dell doesn't.
Click to expand...

If you're Apple on the x86 side, you know you have an extremely loyal customer base in a market that's iffy while making top line profit. Even if the product is dated plenty of people are going to buy it top dollar.
 
B00nie said:
Weirdly enough I have owned 4 macbooks over a period of 10 years and I never - not even a single time have had to use any services from Apple with them. This is a stark contrast to Windows computers which have failed mechanically and even more often by virtue of Windows updates breaking itself when malware or viruses haven't done enough damage already.
Click to expand...

I've have and still use nearly daily, a single Toshiba magnesium chassis lappy, c2d 2ghz, 2gb ram, in the space of time you've had four apples. I don't do updates unless it's a services pack or something I need to install something else. Nothing has broken, I have not even reimaged when migrating to ssd. Its still on its original xp copy.
So if you're trying to say they are reliable, you have a long way to go...
 
N4CR said:
I've have and still use nearly daily, a single Toshiba magnesium chassis lappy, c2d 2ghz, 2gb ram, in the space of time you've had four apples. I don't do updates unless it's a services pack or something I need to install something else. Nothing has broken, I have not even reimaged when migrating to ssd. Its still on its original xp copy.
So if you're trying to say they are reliable, you have a long way to go...
Click to expand...

It's easy to criticize Windows and it has tons of flaws. But damn if Windows 10 can't support all kinds of crazy shit and in a pretty straight forward manner. On basic and cheap stuff, Windows 10 can easily suck. On top end consumer hardware it easily is the best there is. I say that simply because with thousands of dollars of consumer level hardware there's nothing else that can run all that use these days. Touch screens, pens, SLI, 3D, VR, convertibles, virtually all desktop software. While being backwards compatible with the overwhelming majority of Win32 software.

Many will say that Windows 10 is dumbed down. I think it's far too complex and requires too much hardware to appreciate. Whatever the fate of Windows on the desktop becomes, no one is even close to kitchen sinking it like Windows 10.
 
heatlesssun said:
If you're Apple on the x86 side, you know you have an extremely loyal customer base in a market that's iffy while making top line profit. Even if the product is dated plenty of people are going to buy it top dollar.
Click to expand...

Well, Apple used to be above this. It would be possible that you were not getting the highest tech ever, but it was good enough. And it would feel like quality. They would or wouldn't do all kinds of hacks inside, but the immediate hardware you would deal with, such as screen, keyboard, touchpad/touchscreen etc. felt like quality stuff. Responsive and comfortable to the senses.

To cheapen out on something that you'll interact immediately after opening the box is something I would never expect from them. And personally, I have fun with all kinds of stuff, even cheapos, but I would be puzzled to get an Apple laptop with a funky keyboard. And that's coming from someone who uses a Aspire One Netbook daily, LOL.
 
heatlesssun said:
Don't get too sensitive about it. Everyone's favorite tech company gets a certain amount of shit. Microsoft gets a least as much as Apple even in a place like this. And the odd thing is be it Apple or Microsoft or Facebook, Google and Amazon of the big five I don't think generate the same level of visceral hate, they are all rolling in dough. And the typical response is "You're stupid." Then the counter is "Show me something better." and then the counter to the counter is "You're stupid."

It's as predictable as the weather. And I'm not saying that none of these companies don't do stupid things, but with all of them having over half a trillion in valuation, a lot of it is just plain envy.
Click to expand...
It's more akin to anger that they get away with stealing personal data, producing sub-par product for exorbitant prices, and refuse to fix their fuckups, even when they KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt they're liable.

If you or I did what they get away with, we would be in jail--and you both know this.
The fact they make obscene amounts of money don't make me envy them at all: it makes me want to hold their feet to the fire and force them to do the right thing for their customers, because they're all too psychopathic to give a fuck.
 
heatlesssun said:
When it comes to x86 devices these days, where is Microsoft doing anything interesting? They just aren't even trying in that space these days
Click to expand...

Yes, we *can* say the same for them, especially since their last decent OS was Win7, with all it's flaws.

[quite] I'm looking here writing this post on my 15" Surface Book 2. Not at all perfect device but when it comes to laptops or general purpose x86 devices, for all of this failure of Windows 8.x/10 it's kind of odd just how much Microsoft innovated in a space they didn't enter until 6 years ago.[/quote]

You mean copied the iPad and other Android tablets. And you *know* I'm right: they didn't innovate shit with them.

Apple isn't going anywhere with its resources and it has the resources to do whatever. But when it comes to x86 devices they are going to have to take some risks I think.
Click to expand...


Neither is Microsoft: they came out with a seriously flawed OS in Win10 that has only one redeeming feature, in DX12x. The ONLY reason gamers migrated (besides the fact that the "upgrade" was free), was for DX12. Many have fallen back to 7 because 10 was so fucked up, so intrusive, and such a personal data sieve that it's truly worse than the worst drive-by hijacker virus. Nobody truly knows how much personal data they're siphoning from you; and why would you trust the company that, just before Vista hit the market, found the entire source code had been downloaded, then REPLACED, by a hacker? Or the company that just gave the Chinese government the source code to Win2k?

Oh, btw: I'm typing this on a Samsung Galaxy S7 Active, which by itself is at least as powerful as your Surface fatblet.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
I don't know why they can't at least put in the minimal effort and drop in the latest CPU, GPU, WLAN and monitor tech and call it good until they have something innovative.

They don't even have to change the model. Dell doesn't.
Click to expand...
I wonder if nVidia is trying to get Apple to slap a GPP sticker on their products...
 
N4CR said:
I've have and still use nearly daily, a single Toshiba magnesium chassis lappy, c2d 2ghz, 2gb ram, in the space of time you've had four apples. I don't do updates unless it's a services pack or something I need to install something else. Nothing has broken, I have not even reimaged when migrating to ssd. Its still on its original xp copy.
So if you're trying to say they are reliable, you have a long way to go...
Click to expand...
I've seen macs running still that are 15 years old, my son has an iMac that's at least 7-8 years old, and I have a friend with a MacBook that's 9 years old.

Try again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Liver
like this
heatlesssun said:
It's easy to criticize Windows and it has tons of flaws. But damn if Windows 10 can't support all kinds of crazy shit and in a pretty straight forward manner. On basic and cheap stuff, Windows 10 can easily suck. On top end consumer hardware it easily is the best there is. I say that simply because with thousands of dollars of consumer level hardware there's nothing else that can run all that use these days. Touch screens, pens, SLI, 3D, VR, convertibles, virtually all desktop software. While being backwards compatible with the overwhelming majority of Win32 software.

Many will say that Windows 10 is dumbed down. I think it's far too complex and requires too much hardware to appreciate. Whatever the fate of Windows on the desktop becomes, no one is even close to kitchen sinking it like Windows 10.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but windows 10 is the ultimate expression of malware.
 
cdr_74_premium said:
Well, Apple used to be above this. It would be possible that you were not getting the highest tech ever, but it was good enough. And it would feel like quality. They would or wouldn't do all kinds of hacks inside, but the immediate hardware you would deal with, such as screen, keyboard, touchpad/touchscreen etc. felt like quality stuff. Responsive and comfortable to the senses.

To cheapen out on something that you'll interact immediately after opening the box is something I would never expect from them. And personally, I have fun with all kinds of stuff, even cheapos, but I would be puzzled to get an Apple laptop with a funky keyboard. And that's coming from someone who uses a Aspire One Netbook daily, LOL.
Click to expand...
Welcome to management by marketing and accounting. With engineers out.of the loop, it'll just keep going downhill until they implode.
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
Oh, btw: I'm typing this on a Samsung Galaxy S7 Active, which by itself is at least as powerful as your Surface fatblet.
Click to expand...

Look up the specs of a 15" SB2. The thing has a 6GB GTX 1060, 16 GB of RAM and I have the 512 GB version. Detachable screen, touch and top notch pen. It lacks Thunderbolt 3 and can drain battery under top line use but it's ridiculous how much capability is packed into the thing.
 
Big_Rig_Stig said:
Sorry, but windows 10 is the ultimate expression of malware.
Click to expand...

To me it's going to be a matter of how much hardware and software capability do you have running on it. It built this sig rig about two years ago and just started plugging all kinds of shit into it. The thing is fucking insane. 3D monitors, 4k monitor, two VR headsets, Bluetooth, 3 USB drives, Windows Hello camera, optical 5.1 surround, I think 200 apps, maybe more? SLI. Only Windows approaches this kind of thing. It's nuts, even in place like this. Even in a place like this few would just plug all of this shit together and yet it all works well.

Windows 10 has its rep and i know that it's horrible from some but no one who hates Windows 10 is even touching this kind of setup. Because whatever they like would blow up even in the attempt to support all of this crazy shit. I guess that's why I like Microsoft. While it won't last forever, they've gone out on a limb to support a ridiculous amount of capability with ease.
 
N4CR said:
I've have and still use nearly daily, a single Toshiba magnesium chassis lappy, c2d 2ghz, 2gb ram, in the space of time you've had four apples. I don't do updates unless it's a services pack or something I need to install something else. Nothing has broken, I have not even reimaged when migrating to ssd. Its still on its original xp copy.
So if you're trying to say they are reliable, you have a long way to go...
Click to expand...

Good except those old MBPs are still in use. Just not by me. I don't upgrade when stuff gets broken - I upgrade when I see I need more performance. I still have a working DOS laptop in the closet. Doesn't mean it was the last laptop I ever got.

One good example of 'just works' was when a few years ago we were on a beach vacation and I noticed the hotel bar had a Sony bluetooth amplifier. I asked the owner if I could connect my MBP to the amp to play music. He was surprised how easy it was, just a couple of clicks and I could play music wirelessly.

He gave me his Windows7 laptop and asked me to show how to do it. I said sure, thinking it was a piece of cake. *Eeeek* Wrong. Turns out Microsoft had a knowingly gimped version of the bluetooth stack so whatever I tried I couldnt get bluetooth audio working on the computer without buying software.

This is just one example of the things that gradually made me love my macbook. As I told before, the first time I _had_ to use a mac I hated it. It didn't work like Windows at all and it was super annoying.

But the more I used it, the more I grew to like it. Now I wouldn't have it any other way. The fact that it shares roots with linux and I can do many of the same things in command line like I can do with linux is a nice bonus also.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Liver
like this
When Apple first came out they knew they could not compete with the pc in price. They were too small and each part of the pc was made by a specialized manufacturer. So they spent a ton of money on advertising and design so they could convince people that their product was better. They cut a ton of corners to save money but only on the things you could not see.
They spent way more money on the following:
1. Appearance
2. Software design of programs

If something broke users thought well it is still better than if they had a pc.

Now Apple makes so much money on the IPhone that they merged their MacBook program into the IPhone program. They are basically a cell phone company now. They spend way less money on personal computer design since that is not where they make 90% of their money. Because of this the newer MacBook computers have suffered.

I never bought the Kool-Aid. Why would I want a slower machine that costs more and is harder to repair. Although it did look nice.

The people defending Apple overlook that their stuff is more expensive and they should have a higher expectation of service because of this for the longevity and performance of the product.

It is kind of like buying a Ferrari (Apple) and a Honda Accord (PC). The Ferrari looks nicer to some, but it is more expensive and more costly to repair. Plus the Ferrari owners think theirs is better although it breaks more often and costs more than the Hondas. To make this illustration more accurate for our purposes imagine that the Honda is faster........
 
Last edited:
PC World had this review from last year:
The MacBook Pro 15 you see here is the base model. It costs $2,399 and comes with a quad-core Core i7-6700HQ, a Radeon Pro 450 GPU, 16GB of RAM, and a 256GB SSD. Compare that to the Dell XPS 15 before you. For $350 less, you get a quad-core Core i7-7700HQ, GeForce GTX 1050, 16GB of RAM, 512GB SSD, and a 4K touchscreen.

Basically, the XPS 15 gives you more performance (which you can see illustrated below) and doubles your storage while saving you $350. Even crazier, you can max out the XPS 15 to 32GB of DDR4 RAM and a 1TB PCIe SSD, and it will only cost $50 more than the base level MacBook Pro 15. For $50 you basically get four times the storage and double the RAM.
 
heatlesssun said:
While it won't last forever, they've gone out on a limb to support a ridiculous amount of capability with ease.
Click to expand...

Nah. OEMs just throw support at them, because if it doesn't work with windows, it's useless.

Kudos for them on having a big market share, of course, but that takes care of itself afterwards.
 
Back in the day when Sony stores were more common.

Anyways I bought an iPad (gen 1) and it was not performing. I bought it from Best Buy and took it to the Apple store, but I didn’t have the receipt nor did I buy it from the Apple store. They said it’s an Apple product and they’ll take care of me. In fact they gave me a new iPad immediately. I was in and out in 15 minutes (with appointment).

I tried that with a Sony branded DVD player at the Sony store. Absolutely nothing good came of that experience.

That experience really made an impression on me. It’s very much like taking an in warranty vehicle for repairs at a dealership where you didn’t buy the vehicle. Warranty is still honored. A lot of computer manufacturers don’t have a store presence so that’s moot. Still, I’ve always had great service. New iPad, replacement batteries way out of warranty, etc.

I don’t game anymore, and my MBP is from 2011, still working strong. I would have replaced a comparable Windows laptop multiple times in the same time frame. In that regard, the MBP was way cheaper over time. It’s showing it’s age now, taking longer to do things. In that time frame, it’s worked almost perfectly. I think I’ve used the force quit or hard power off, maybe once a year.

I realize that is one person’s experience, however it’s mine and that’s why I use Apple.
 
gplracer said:
PC World had this review from last year:
The MacBook Pro 15 you see here is the base model. It costs $2,399 and comes with a quad-core Core i7-6700HQ, a Radeon Pro 450 GPU, 16GB of RAM, and a 256GB SSD. Compare that to the Dell XPS 15 before you. For $350 less, you get a quad-core Core i7-7700HQ, GeForce GTX 1050, 16GB of RAM, 512GB SSD, and a 4K touchscreen.

Basically, the XPS 15 gives you more performance (which you can see illustrated below) and doubles your storage while saving you $350. Even crazier, you can max out the XPS 15 to 32GB of DDR4 RAM and a 1TB PCIe SSD, and it will only cost $50 more than the base level MacBook Pro 15. For $50 you basically get four times the storage and double the RAM.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's bad top to bottom.

I even had to skip Dell this time- I'm on a Zenbook, which has given me an SSD failure already, but it otherwise had everything I wanted: 2 in 1, 8550U, 16GB of RAM, 512GB SSD... in a 2kg ultrabook. Photography is my main hobby beyond gaming, both represented in sig, and I wanted lightweight, mobile, flexible power. Oh, and I didn't want the high-res screen that Dell makes you buy if you also need more RAM and storage.

Literally can't get anything close from Apple, and every spec in that top line is a requirement: I'd have bought an XPS13 2 in 1, even paid more for it, if Dell would have built one. I have an older XPS13 that is still awesome for what it is and a 13" work Latitude that is solid as a rock.
 
cdr_74_premium said:
To cheapen out on something that you'll interact immediately after opening the box is something I would never expect from them.
Click to expand...

They didn't do it to cheapen out (their profit on the new laptops is lower, which has caused other furors with stockholders).

They did it because thin at any cost is always better :rolleyes:

Fuck Johnny and his white room.
 
Apple's business model of having glass backed phones, non crumb resistant macbook pro keyboards, soldered components, etc. is just parl of creating risk and limitation into their business model to gain additional revenue. Car makers and many other industries took notice and have adopted similar risks into their product designs... Many products today have some additional hazard, limitation, or risk condition built into the product or service that was not an issue 5-10-20 years ago. It's all a big shakedown.. buyer beware.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top