GeForce Partner Program Impacts Consumer Choice

IdiotInCharge said:
Did Nvidia order ASUS to use ROG exclusively for their products? Is that in the contract, ROG -> Nvidia?

Or did ASUS get a choice, and decide to relegate second tier products to a new, 'second tier' brand?
Click to expand...

The Mafia would love to have you in my friend!
 
You girls go get a room if you want to continue bumping it.

keep-calm-and-lets-get-back-to-the-topic.png
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Did Nvidia order ASUS to use ROG exclusively for their products? Is that in the contract, ROG -> Nvidia?

Or did ASUS get a choice, and decide to relegate second tier products to a new, 'second tier' brand?
Click to expand...

Did nVidia order Asus"? ...they made Asus and all the other AIBs an offer they couldn't refuse. So effectively yes nVidia did.

So no choice for Asus. ROG ...Asus premium gaming brand HAD to become a nVidia exclusive ...or else! [to understand what the 'or else' actually would entail, I suggest you re-read the article!]

And to refer to AMD's products, inaccurately, as second tier is either fanboi bias or flame-bait. Which is it? ....and still in no way justifies or gives legal cover to what nVidia has done.
 
fingerbob69 said:
Did nVidia order Asus"? ...they made Asus and all the other AIBs an offer they couldn't refuse. So effectively yes nVidia did.

So no choice for Asus. ROG ...Asus premium gaming brand HAD to become a nVidia exclusive ...or else! [to understand what the 'or else' actually would entail, I suggest you re-read the article!]

And to refer to AMD's products, inaccurately, as second tier is either fanboi bias or flame-bait. Which is it? ....and still in no way justifies or gives legal cover to what nVidia has done.
Click to expand...

Sadly, if AMD's GPU's weren't second tier, this discussion wouldn't exist ,as no AIB would have felt the need to opt in to Nvidia's loyalty program.

And until GPP affects framerates, buying habits will remain exactly the same as long as Nvidia continues topping benchmarks. Thus these bandwagon outrage threads are little more than sitting around crying that your girlfriend or wife left you for a rich guy; why it "wasn't a good decision for her" and that the guy now "owns her" because his bankbook, ferrari and malibu mansion put a "gun to her head".

Blame your wife, blame the rich guy, but in the end you're just avoiding the root issue, which is that two parties entered into a mutually beneficial arrangement and it doesn't concern anyone but them.
 
Last edited:
odditory said:
Sadly, if AMD's GPU's weren't second tier, this discussion wouldn't exist ,as no AIB would have felt the need to opt in to Nvidia's loyalty program.

And until GPP affects framerates, buying habits will remain exactly the same as long as Nvidia continues topping benchmarks. Thus these bandwagon outrage threads are little more than sitting around crying that your girlfriend or wife left you for a rich guy; why it "wasn't a good decision for her" and that the guy now "owns her" because his bankbook, ferrari and malibu mansion put a "gun to her head".

Blame your wife, blame the rich guy, but in the end you're just avoiding the root issue, which is that two parties entered into a mutually beneficial arrangement and it doesn't concern anyone but them.
Click to expand...
What is with this "second tier" shit nvidia fanbois have been going on about, I find it interesting that the argument went from "nothing wrong with what they are doing" to "it doesn't matter, AMD is second tier, Nvidia is best" shit.
 
FearTheCow said:
What is with this "second tier" shit nvidia fanbois have been going on about, I find it interesting that the argument went from "nothing wrong with what they are doing" to "it doesn't matter, AMD is second tier, Nvidia is best" shit.
Click to expand...

It's the truth and it's been true for awhile. NVIDIA has had better architectures for at least two generations now. Their drivers have been historically better. Their discrete GPUs are preferred by consumers for gaming purposes by a wide margin.
 
jwcalla said:
It's the truth and it's been true for awhile. NVIDIA has had better architectures for at least two generations now. Their drivers have been historically better. Their discrete GPUs are preferred by consumers for gaming purposes by a wide margin.
Click to expand...

Ok, serious question.

How much did nVidia pay you to type away your credibility?
 
jwcalla said:
It's the truth and it's been true for awhile. NVIDIA has had better architectures for at least two generations now. Their drivers have been historically better. Their discrete GPUs are preferred by consumers for gaming purposes by a wide margin.
Click to expand...
AMD has a product that competes performance wise with every card Nvidia has except the 1080ti.

The driver bullshit is just that, bullshit, there drivers have been pretty good the last couple years.

Nvidia out selling AMD is what makes GPP a problem, they are using their market position to what is for all intents and purposes, put their competitor at a disadvantage not of their creation.

It's pretty pathetic that the Nvidia defenders argument is basically just trying to trash AMD.
 
FearTheCow said:
AMD has a product that competes performance wise with every card Nvidia has except the 1080ti.
Click to expand...

You can word it how you want but it's true that Maxwell and Pascal were superior architectures to whatever AMD was putting out at the time. Hell back in the 290 days weren't they just rebadging old crap?

AMD is in its position because it was lazy for over a decade, and the company was badly, badly mismanaged for so many years. Their laziness has put them in a disadvantaged position and now people are crying, "this isn't fair!"

If AMD isn't "second tier" then they should be able to build their own brands with the AIBs in no time flat.
 
jwcalla said:
If AMD isn't "second tier" then they should be able to build their own brands with the AIBs in no time flat.
Click to expand...

If Nvidia felt that way... then they should have done their "we want our own brand" the legal way and spun off their own new brand and required their customers to use it. I'm sure that would have went over well with them as well... but it wouldn't be illegal.
 
jwcalla said:
You can word it how you want but it's true that Maxwell and Pascal were superior architectures to whatever AMD was putting out at the time. Hell back in the 290 days weren't they just rebadging old crap?

AMD is in its position because it was lazy for over a decade, and the company was badly, badly mismanaged for so many years. Their laziness has put them in a disadvantaged position and now people are crying, "this isn't fair!"

If AMD isn't "second tier" then they should be able to build their own brands with the AIBs in no time flat.
Click to expand...

Do you have selective memory or did you purposely leave nvidia out of your rebranding cards story?
 
wizzi01 said:
Do you have selective memory or did you purposely leave nvidia out of your rebranding cards story?
Click to expand...

It's not pertinent because NVIDIA has been releasing new architectures. They got two cycles out of Fermi and Kepler and one each out of Maxwell and Pascal. When AMD released the 290 or whatever it was it was some rebadged card from like 1982. AMD hemorrhaged huge marketshare during that period.
 
jwcalla said:
You can word it how you want but it's true that Maxwell and Pascal were superior architectures to whatever AMD was putting out at the time. Hell back in the 290 days weren't they just rebadging old crap?

AMD is in its position because it was lazy for over a decade, and the company was badly, badly mismanaged for so many years. Their laziness has put them in a disadvantaged position and now people are crying, "this isn't fair!"

If AMD isn't "second tier" then they should be able to build their own brands with the AIBs in no time flat.
Click to expand...
And nothing you typed is relevant, not surprised.

As it stands today, AMD is competitive in everything but the very high end.

AMD's past has nothing to do with GPP, stop deflecting and pulling mental gymnastics to try and justify GPP.
 
jwcalla said:
It's not pertinent because NVIDIA has been releasing new architectures. They got two cycles out of Fermi and Kepler and one each out of Maxwell and Pascal. When AMD released the 290 or whatever it was it was some rebadged card from like 1982. AMD hemorrhaged huge marketshare during that period.
Click to expand...

Ah, so you only want the facts that you think are pertinent. If only you could see past your bias you might actually not look like a fool.
 
FearTheCow said:
And nothing you typed is relevant, not surprised.

As it stands today, AMD is competitive in everything but the very high end.

AMD's past has nothing to do with GPP, stop deflecting and pulling mental gymnastics to try and justify GPP.
Click to expand...

wizzi01 said:
Ah, so you only want the facts that you think are pertinent. If only you could see past your bias you might actually not look like a fool.
Click to expand...

I would love to hear your guys' explanation for the marketshare differences as they stand now, for discrete GPUs used for gaming. Only a small sliver of sales are 1080Ti's. So what's been going on the last five years?
 
jwcalla said:
I would love to hear your guys' explanation for the marketshare differences as they stand now, for discrete GPUs used for gaming. Only a small sliver of sales are 1080Ti's. So what's been going on the last five years?
Click to expand...

Ok well as your market research over there at Nvidia has already told you.... but here is some highlights from some third party info anyway;
https://www.jonpeddie.com/press-rel...sed-in-q417-from-last-quarter-amd-gained-mark

Crypto has been a boom and a pain for AMD all at one time.

They are selling a ton of cards... (because like it or not NV compute sucks in comparison, its just the way it is AMDs are the better crypto mining cards).

That is driving up retail pricing for the handful of supply that gets into typical gamer friendly retails channels.

So do I blame a gamer for buying a 1080ti if they are in the market for a stupid high end card... of course not. Would a lot of those gamers have bought V64 if they could get them at MSRP, I would argue ya.... but due to the fact the V64 eats the 1080tis launch when it comes to mining retailers are cashing in. Of course no gamer is paying more for a v64 vs a 1080ti, and in some cases retailers are asking for $200 more for a v64.

Going down the lineup it gets worse/better for AMD. The Vega56 is even more popular with miners it seems... and again retailers are cashing in. Sure AMD is moving the stock which is great, but yes it means the gaming market is having a hard time getting V56 for anything close to the MSRP. Even the 580 is a very good mining card... so same issue its being sold well over MSRP by greedy retailers. So sure NV is moving 1070s and 1060s not because they are seen as the best mid range cards by a mile... but because you can actually buy one without paying a 200-300 dollar mining premium.

If Nvidia was any good at efficient compute we would be complaining about NV being way over priced and loving AMD for being able to put stock in gamers hands. lol
 
jwcalla said:
I would love to hear your guys' explanation for the marketshare differences as they stand now, for discrete GPUs used for gaming. Only a small sliver of sales are 1080Ti's. So what's been going on the last five years?
Click to expand...
I dont understand how you dont get it, for the last time, it doesn't matter, what matters is Nvidia has a large amount of the market and is using that market share to put AMD at a disadvantage.

Performance, pricing, heat, power usage, etc... doesn't fucking matter.
 
FearTheCow said:
I dont understand how you dont get it, for the last time, it doesn't matter, what matters is Nvidia has a large amount of the market and is using that market share to put AMD at a disadvantage.

Performance, pricing, heat, power usage, etc... doesn't fucking matter.
Click to expand...

Or, put another way, AMD has put itself at a disadvantage because it's a second-rate GPU producer with no leverage with its partners.
 
jwcalla said:
Or, put another way, AMD has put itself at a disadvantage because it's a second-rate GPU producer with no leverage with its partners.
Click to expand...

That still does not make what Nvidia is doing OK. Especially because, if what you say is true, it is not even necessary!
 
jwcalla said:
Or, put another way, AMD has put itself at a disadvantage because it's a second-rate GPU producer with no leverage with its partners.
Click to expand...
So you finally admit Nvidia is using its leverage in the market to put AMD at a disadvantage, which btw is anti-competitive and most likely illegal, took you long enough to admit it.
 
jwcalla said:
Or, put another way, AMD has put itself at a disadvantage because it's a second-rate GPU producer with no leverage with its partners.
Click to expand...

You mean the partners that are selling every damn AMD card they have made almost instantly? The only thing that has hurt AMD is being slower to market with a new card so Nvidia gets first shot at sales.
 
jwcalla said:
Everything in business is "anti-competitive". That's what makes you guys sound so ridiculous.

NVIDIA has nowhere near a monopoly in GPUs.
Click to expand...
You are wrong, so wrong it's not even funny anymore.

https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/anticompetitive-practices

You dont have to have a monopoly to be anti-competitive.

To put it real simple for you:
Nvidia becoming a monopoly or increasing market share through selling the best products = ok

Nvidia becoming a monopoly or increasing market.share through hobbling the competition through the GPP = bad
 
Last edited:
jwcalla said:
Everything in business is "anti-competitive". That's what makes you guys sound so ridiculous.

NVIDIA has nowhere near a monopoly in GPUs.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. If AMD and Nvidia were airlines, these outrage bandwagoners would be crying in corners and locking themselves in bathrooms because Nvidia offered a frequent flyer program - "OMG anti-competitive! They're putting a GUN to peoples' heads by offering incentives!"

FearTheCow said:
Nvidia becoming a monopoly or increasing market.share through hobbling the competition through the GPP = bad
Click to expand...

You forgot, "In my opinion...".
 
Last edited:
odditory said:
Pretty much. If AMD and Nvidia were airlines, these outrage bandwagoners would be crying in corners and locking themselves in bathrooms because Nvidia offered a frequent flyer program - "OMG anti-competitive! They're putting a GUN to peoples' heads by offering incentives!"
Click to expand...

Accept your analogy is completely wrong. Asus / MSI and the other AIB manufacturers are Nvidias customers. They are not offering you a rebate they are offering marketing funds on condition of shutting down their competition. (if your don't know much about advertising or corp finance... co-op marking funds is the best way to pay off a supplier... because it skirts lots of laws, and best of all its as good as giving them cash. Most companies are able to gain nice tax advantage from advertising spend. So if a supplier pays for 50% or in some cases more of an ad campaign, in many cases the company can claim 100% of the amount paid. Meaning they spend say 5 bucks the supplier pays 5 bucks and at the end of the year they get 8 or 9 bucks shaved off their tax bill. Its like the Gov launders the money for them. lol)

If you want your analogy to be correct, it would be like Boeing going to the airlines and offering them membership in the Boeing prefered partner program. As a plan member they will get on time delivery (cause you know there are a lot of other airlines, members first), they will also get cash in the form of "joint" marketing funds. The caveat is Boeing will be your exclusive supplier for (insert airline segment short hop, long haul ect) you will buy no Airbuses, Bombardier or any other manufacturers product accept Boeing for that segment. Your free to buy those other guys stuff for the non BPP covered markets for now (till we come for those I guess)... but X segment that one we now own as per the BPP. (feel free of course to not sign thats cool too... we will still sell to you, and you know your planes will get there at some point)

Now if that doesn't sound shady to you... you would make a terrible lawyer judge or law enforcement official. *Cause its not legal* The only way to make such a deal shadier is to make sure the AIB are hiring their brother in laws as advisers on the ad campaigns. lol
 
Last edited:
schoolslave said:
Why is AMD relying on manufactured outrage instead of legal action to resolve this?
If AMD were serious about their business and marketshare they would treat this in a more "professional" manner, ie. consistent messaging, legal action, and most of all reaching out to agencies in countries with anti-competitive laws.
Click to expand...

Because the legal action would take 5-10 years all the while the GPP would be in effect. AMD has dealt with this bullshit before when Intel did it and it didn't turn out well for AMD. This time around AMD is being a hell of a lot more smart about it. Instead of waiting on legal cases which takes years (which is what nVidia is counting on) AMD is going on the PR offensive in order to expose what nVidia is doing without having to wait years in the court system. If the PR is bad enough and enough is exposed outside of the courts, the extortion program known as GPP may very well be dropped before any lasting harm to AMD is done. If the PR campaign is successful it doesn't stop the court cases from continuing either.
 
SmokeRngs said:
Because the legal action would take 5-10 years all the while the GPP would be in effect. AMD has dealt with this bullshit before when Intel did it and it didn't turn out well for AMD. This time around AMD is being a hell of a lot more smart about it. Instead of waiting on legal cases which takes years (which is what nVidia is counting on) AMD is going on the PR offensive in order to expose what nVidia is doing without having to wait years in the court system. If the PR is bad enough and enough is exposed outside of the courts, the extortion program known as GPP may very well be dropped before any lasting harm to AMD is done. If the PR campaign is successful it doesn't stop the court cases from continuing either.
Click to expand...

If Kyles reporting is correct. (I have complete confidence in his reporting) Then the AIBs where offered contracts that could be read in a way that states the brands they use to sell AMD or Intel or anyone other then NVs cards are to not be gamer focused at all. Its possible we are already seeing that push back a bit from Asus. Yes they signed on quickly but their Arez is being marketed as a gaming brand. Without seeing the wording of the Asus GPP contract we can't say for sure of course... but its possible they have already thumbed their nose at Nvidia, testing to see if they would try to enforce possible exact wording that forbid that.
 
ChadD said:
If Kyles reporting is correct. (I have complete confidence in his reporting) Then the AIBs where offered contracts that could be read in a way that states the brands they use to sell AMD or Intel or anyone other then NVs cards are to not be gamer focused at all. Its possible we are already seeing that push back a bit from Asus. Yes they signed on quickly but their Arez is being marketed as a gaming brand. Without seeing the wording of the Asus GPP contract we can't say for sure of course... but its possible they have already thumbed their nose at Nvidia, testing to see if they would try to enforce possible exact wording that forbid that.
Click to expand...
Maybe NVIDIA position on this has softened? I really do not know, but I would expect after all the exposure, that it might have shifted gears a bit. That said, NVIDIA will not talk to anyone about their GPP program that is so great for consumers. It is so awesome, that it decided to not comment on it and leave this historic marketing opportunity on the table. /s
 
I do find it amusing that some people are so defensive of a gpu producer they act like they have been initiated into Scientology. Defend it even though its obviously wrong. Take a step back and observe the GPP like the rest of us looking at it objectively and unbiased. I'll use what I can afford at a price point....nvidia, and, intel....i don' have a lot of brand loyalty ...but I do enjoy seeing amd starting to shake up the scene with mcm architecture. And they say one navi die is equal to a 1080 ...imagine 2 or 4 of these scaled together with infinity fabric. So keep defending your green team because nvidia loves when you buy 1080ti's that return nvidia 75% of the msrp as profit when there are other players out there happy with a 20-30%.
 
^It's been talked about in another thread around here, but basically this disproves GPP in this particular case.
 
As an Amazon Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
How so? There appear to be no nVidia products marketed under the Air Boost sub-brand which perfectly complies with what Kyle stated in regard to the GPP.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top