NVIDIA Starts Disinformation GPP Campaign

cjcox said:
Actually, you aren't getting it. It's one thing for Nvidia to say they don't want people to create brands that cover other products as well, but they're actually pulling weaponry to ensure it. That's the difference. This isn't exactly "racketeering", but the principles are very similar. This is coercion. And while this kind of heavy handed coercion costs companies money, Nvidia will compensate for your pain.
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It becomes RACKETEERING when the racketer in question (nVidia) actually succeeds in forcing said victims into bending to their will.


(Thank you, I've been missing that word in my replies)
 
cyclone3d said:
Ummmm.. if you look at the BRAND of the soft drinks in ANY fast food restaurant.. or pretty much ANY restaurant for that matter, all the soft drinks are made by the same parent company.
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And then you look at my post, and realize that said restaurant entered into an agreement with said parent company, usually without being coerced.

Now, if Pepsi walked into your burger house, put a gun to your head, and said "sell ONLY Pepsi, or else", THEN that becomes this situation we have with nVidia.
 
cyclone3d said:
Nvidia is not doing the same exact thing, but because of the Intal/AMD/OEM thing from years ago, some people are way more watchful of the same sort of thing happening again.
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It's EXACTLY the same thing: same threats, same consequences, just a slightly different target.
 
c3k said:
I hate lawyers.
I hate the litigious nature of US society.
I hate class-action lawsuits and how they are frequently made-up crap (oh, my coffee is hot?), and only the lawyers profit.

I hate Nvidia's GPP crap even more than I hate the above.

I'd join a class-action in heartbeat. Yeah, my consumer choices/prices have been affected by this obvious scheme.
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Just remember: without lawyers helping enforce the rule of law, you have a totalitarian society with zero freedoms.
 
L33t Masta said:
Wow, Kyle. You used to be one of the best sites on the internet for actual hardware news. Now all you seem to do is push anti-Nvidia nonsense at the request of AMD.

“Getting paid to tell the truth”? Yea, ok. AMD put this whole thing in front of you and several other websites hoping you would pick it up and run with it. I thought it would be over in a week but so far you’ve managed to keep it going by producing ZERO evidence from any AIBs, ZERO evidence from Nvidia themselves, and just a bunch of shit from AMD.

Sad to see the site deteriorate into what is basically TMZ instead of actual hardware discussion.
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Not trying to speak for Kyle, but I don't think he has anything against Nvidia's technology. He might even favor it (likely). But Nvidia is definitely trying to use their "power" in new ways here. And it's not exactly pretty. I think you missed some of the "evidence" btw.

I don't think AMD drove Kyle to do this at all.

I certainly don't want HardTMZ here, but Nvidia is definitely stepping outside of their doors and into the boardroom with guns drawn. Does this type of bullying happen elsewhere? Yes. Doesn't make it right.
 
Bielzebuddha said:
And then you look at my post, and realize that said restaurant entered into an agreement with said parent company, usually without being coerced.

Now, if Pepsi walked into your burger house, put a gun to your head, and said "sell ONLY Pepsi, or else", THEN that becomes this situation we have with nVidia.
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Your post mentions different flavors and then goes on to mention that it is only the Cola that has to be a specific brand.

I wan't commenting on anything about coercion in regards to this.
 
L33t Masta said:
I thought it would be over in a week but so far you’ve managed to keep it going by producing ZERO evidence from any AIBs, ZERO evidence from Nvidia themselves, and just a bunch of shit from AMD.
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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=asus+arez

A User said:
The heat and power numbers aren't good.on the Radeon cards. Those are aspects of performance.
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I thought the [H] spirit was about the BEST RESULTS, regardless of all other factors?
I've seen that said around here repeatedly, yet when the results are in we see a lot of justification and defensive attitudes.

A User said:
FFS AMD. Give me an alternative.....
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Alternative to what?
AMD has an option that trades blows at every price point.
Every.
Single.
One.

Suddenly, power consumption matters. Heat matters. Time to market matters. Price matters.
Yet, the additional cost of G-Sync monitors, isn't a factor in the same argument?

If you're here to chase the best results in a vacuum with price not a factor, an 1080Ti or Titan XP is the card for you.
If you want the best experience in reality at a decent price, there's no reason an AMD Radeon card couldn't serve your needs.
 
Inacurate said:
Alternative to what?
AMD has an option that trades blows at every price point.
Every.
Single.
One.
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Yeah, AMD has options that trade blows at every price point. That is absolutely 100% correct. Vega 64 LC vs 1080Ti. That's the issue. Vega 64 vs GTX 1080. Vega 56 vs 1070/Ti (not sure about the pricing here, but doesn't matter for the sake of this argument). One GPU covering the market segments covered by two GPUs, in terms of pricing. The GTX 1080 came out two years ago by the way, it's also marginally faster (in generational terms <15%) than a tweaked 980Ti that is what, 4 years old now?
Inacurate said:
Suddenly, power consumption matters. Heat matters. Time to market matters. Price matters.
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When have power consumption and thermal considerations not mattered? Time to market? Price? Are you arguing these things shouldn't matter? That's what it sounds like.
Inacurate said:
Yet, the additional cost of G-Sync monitors, isn't a factor in the same argument?
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Of course it's a factor, when has it not been? The argument has always been that G-sync monitors were better, not because of g-sync itself, but because the panels were tested and pretty much only the high end ones were equipped with the gsync modules. AMD even sold Vega bundled with monitors and the entirety of the internet complained. Freesync 2 is an improvement and it's definitely a point in AMDs favor.
Inacurate said:
If you're here to chase the best results in a vacuum with price not a factor, an 1080Ti or Titan XP is the card for you.
If you want the best experience in reality at a decent price, there's no reason an AMD Radeon card couldn't serve your needs.
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There's also no reason a geforce card won't serve your needs, drawing less power, more consistent performance in games across the board, pretty much same price. Geforce cards have better supply, and they're sold at MSRP through the nvidia store, a move that hilariously triggered much controversy and whining when the 1080 launched.

AMD has spent years languishing and resorting to genuinely petty PR wars over twitter over stupid shit like hairworks in the witcher, "finewine", "radeon rebellion" and have diminished their own image with overhyped products and infantile marketing.

The Fury X is the best thing since sliced cheese, 4GB HBM is futureproof, the competition doesn't support DX12. Whining, excuses, finger pointing. The same thing is happening with Vega. Polaris was hyped up to be a 1080 competitor, Vega was hyped up to be a 1080Ti competitor.
 
Sounds like Nvidia is taking a page from the Russian School of Journalism,

“The Syrian Chemical attack was a False flag operation staged by UK intelligence services”

“The Syrian armed forces shot down 71 missiles out of 105 fired”

“Kyle is a paid shill of AMD”
 
I don't get this.......but I do.

Nvidia has nearly all the GPU business they can eat, making money like they print it.
But that ain't good enough so they want to try and eliminate all the competition by starting some draconian program
and pissing off all their customers.

Sure.....why not.....solid business plan.

Oh yeah.......Kyle Bennett started it......sure. I may not always see everything the same, but this site has never been anything but fair, and as far as I know, HardOCP has
been equally harsh to AMD, Intel and everyone else over time.
 
L33t Masta said:
https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/03/08/geforce_partner_program_impacts_consumer_choice



I’m sorry, who’s a liar?

That one must sting :)
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Just my own observation, but if this information was total bullshit:

1) why have nvidia not come down hard to squash it?
2) why has ASUS (an AIB partner) completely rebranded their AMD line of GPUs ??? To mention just one that has changed in the face of GPP????

The other sites that were contacted? Looks like they took a pass because they didn't want to give up on the free review samples from nvidia.
But was it painful? I doubt it since you can't buy a new top end GPU for anything less than double what it should cost.
This site chose to tell the story and other sites have reported the same, so Kyle isn't making this stuff up, nor is he paid by anyone to do so as far as I can gather.
As I said above, the site has harpooned everyone equally for as long as I have been coming here to read the information.

And that's why I keep coming back.
 
magoo said:
I don't get this.......but I do.

Nvidia has nearly all the GPU business they can eat, making money like they print it.
But that ain't good enough so they want to try and eliminate all the competition by starting some draconian program
and pissing off all their customers.

Sure.....why not.....solid business plan.

Oh yeah.......Kyle Bennett started it......sure. I may not always see everything the same, but this site has never been anything but fair, and as far as I know, HardOCP has
been equally harsh to AMD, Intel and everyone else over time.
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Sincerely doubt even 1% of NV customers are aware of this GPP story, of that 1% maybe 1% actually care, and of that 1% less than 1% care enough to do anything about it
 
Alkaladur said:
Sincerely doubt even 1% of NV customers are aware of this GPP story, of that 1% maybe 1% actually care, and of that 1% less than 1% care enough to do anything about it
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As an NV customer, I sincerely hope you are wrong.

Honestly, I think that G-Sync is more frustrating, as I tend to keep monitors longer. I would love to see that wall torn down!
 
IronDeagle said:
As an NV customer, I sincerely hope you are wrong.

Honestly, I think that G-Sync is more frustrating, as I tend to keep monitors longer. I would love to see that wall torn down!
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I have to agree with you on that one. I love my G-sync monitor but never been a fan of proprietary/royalty based formats. It sucks having to deal with HDMI crap on non-monitor displays but at least some are getting VRR or Free-sync. Yet another reason I'm leaning towards AMD for the future. NV better get their act together because sooner or later all these questionable decisions are going to catch up to them.
 
Alkaladur said:
If I had a Lemonade company and I purchased my lemons from two suppliers, let's call them Ethical Lemon and Greedy Green Lemon Fuckers and sold both kinds of lemonade under the same brand and one day the Greedy Green Lemon Fuckers offer me rebates, early access to bleeding edge lemons, marketing funds etc in exchange for compartmentalized branding, why exactly is that anti-competitive? I genuinely don't understand it.
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Valid point, but it's still your company. I don't think you want any company dictating to you how you should run it. You manage everything about the business from inventory to personnel. Now other companies get to come in, offer some cash on the table and other "services" as long as you tow the line. Make sure that Ethical Lemon ins't in the same category as our elite greedy lemons. Later on down the line, your water suppliers say the same thing. Pretty soon, your company is only selling one brand from one water supply and one container. You've just bought a hooker.
 
Shotglass01 said:
Valid point, but it's still your company. I don't think you want any company dictating to you how you should run it. You manage everything about the business from inventory to personnel. Now other companies get to come in, offer some cash on the table and other "services" as long as you tow the line. Make sure that Ethical Lemon ins't in the same category as our elite greedy lemons. Later on down the line, your water suppliers say the same thing. Pretty soon, your company is only selling one brand from one water supply and one container. You've just bought a hooker.
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Nobody is demanding anything though, it's an incentive. If it's more profitable more me to accept then I will, otherwise I won't. Similarly my decisions regarding which specific brand to associate with each type of lemon is entirely up to me, I could sell the greedy green lemon fucker's lemonade under some horrible brand name like THIS IS ALMOST PISS and it would still meet the terms of teh agreement. Naturally this is never going to happen, and the I am going to be a rational actor and make whichever decision is best for my business. Nobody has strong-armed me, and I certainly don't see any parallels to al capone and the mafia.
 
Bielzebuddha said:
And then you look at my post, and realize that said restaurant entered into an agreement with said parent company, usually without being coerced.

Now, if Pepsi walked into your burger house, put a gun to your head, and said "sell ONLY Pepsi, or else", THEN that becomes this situation we have with nVidia.
Click to expand...

This is part of the reason that makes people question if this is all theatrical hysterics by people who have an ax to grind.

If Coca-Cola enters into an agreement with a restaurant like McDonald's or whatever, you better believe there will be no Pepsi products on the premises. The equivalent would be if NVIDIA told ASUS, "You can sell our product, but only if you don't sell any of our competitors products." And NVIDIA is not even going that far.

ASUS is not "coerced" to sell NVIDIA products any more than McDonald's is being coerced to sell Coca-Cola.
 
Krazy925 said:
I only see one fanboy in this thread and it isn’t the person you’re talking to.








It’s the person I quoted (you).
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LOL Krazy925 had to delete his posts and block me because he got called out! I guess you should have read the articles we're talking about before commenting.
 
Blame nvidia all you want, boicot them, sign petitions and make them be investigated by the FCC.

Maybe I should take a break from this and be back next quartely report when nvidia announces yet another record profit quarter.
 
jwcalla said:
Since you "definitely" know that this is illegal, could you cite us the law at least?

Show us a US Code number so that we know what we're dealing with.
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http://www.stern.nyu.edu/networks/ShermanClaytonFTC_Acts.pdf

Yes US law on this stuff is 130 years old. US is great that way there is so much political will to update laws that relate to big business. lol

Canadian law deals with Exclusive dealing issues in section 77 of our competition act.
http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/eng/h_00111.html

In the EU the treaty of Rome section 85 deals with exclusive deals. Section 82 is what cost Intel 1.4B.
http://www.wipo.int/edocs/lexdocs/laws/en/eu/eu025en.pdf

Most countries have laws on the books that deal with Exclusive dealing. Intel was also fined in South Korea and Japan although they where no where close to the headline grabbing 1.4B they where fined in the EU and aprox the same they where forced to pay AMD in the US case. (I mention Intel because the case was a lot alike... Intel signed contracts with OEMs for market segment protection in return for rebates but those where often in the form of Marking monies... one of Nvidias Carots according to Kyle)
 
Alkaladur said:
Nobody is demanding anything though, it's an incentive. If it's more profitable more me to accept then I will, otherwise I won't. Similarly my decisions regarding which specific brand to associate with each type of lemon is entirely up to me, I could sell the greedy green lemon fucker's lemonade under some horrible brand name like THIS IS ALMOST PISS and it would still meet the terms of teh agreement. Naturally this is never going to happen, and the I am going to be a rational actor and make whichever decision is best for my business. Nobody has strong-armed me, and I certainly don't see any parallels to al capone and the mafia.
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When cash is involved it matters. As a separate lemonade seller, I'm at a disadvantage because I didn't enter in to the agreement with Greedy lemons so now you've got cash for branding, first access to stock for the lemons, etc. It's anti-competitive. I could lose my business because I didn't want to enter in to their agreement forcing their terms. I would expect you would be unable to brand it in such a way that it makes it look inferior to Ethical lemons. I'm sure the terms probably say it must be top-tier branding.
 
* watching the video now.


As a consumer I hate being caught in this because I'm expanding into ultrawide surround/eyefinity gaming so my GTX 1080 is aging out. I do side with those angry at nvidia and not just because of this GPP thing I also disagree with this G-SYNC proprietary monitor crap I've started dealing with since making the jump to ultrawide. I would be more than happy to make the switch to AMD, but (and I desperately want someone to tell me I'm wrong) but if you're already on a GTX1080 even a Vega64 is a downgrade and even with that it's got beastly power requirements.

I wish amd were functionally competitive with Nvidia so this protest, if thats whats being asked, would be a lot easier to get onboard with.
 
Shotglass01 said:
When cash is involved it matters. As a separate lemonade seller, I'm at a disadvantage because I didn't enter in to the agreement with Greedy lemons so now you've got cash for branding, first access to stock for the lemons, etc. It's anti-competitive. I could lose my business because I didn't want to enter in to their agreement forcing their terms. I would expect you would be unable to brand it in such a way that it makes it look inferior to Ethical lemons. I'm sure the terms probably say it must be top-tier branding.
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So basically you're saying that any incentive whatsoever is anti-competitive? I don't get this. If you're my competitor in this example, nothing is stopping you from signing the same deal I did...

And what do you mean an agreement forcing their terms??? Any fucking agreement enforces terms.

Am I fucking mental or is this argument completely void of any sense ?
 
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jwcalla said:
Looks pretty vague to me and open to interpretation.
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Agreed the US laws suck hard. US political types have zero will to update competition laws. The US is a menace frankly. (my opinion obviously)

Having said that the Sherman/Claton laws where used against both Intel and MS in cases with plenty of similarities. The major difference I would say is it is easier to argue both MS and Intel have more dominate positions... which under all such laws not just the US does make a big difference.
 
You should be glad you were not paid. Because if you were you would have zero credibility.
 
Alkaladur said:
If I had a Lemonade company and I purchased my lemons from two suppliers, let's call them Ethical Lemon and Greedy Green Lemon Fuckers and sold both kinds of lemonade under the same brand and one day the Greedy Green Lemon Fuckers offer me rebates, early access to bleeding edge lemons, marketing funds etc in exchange for compartmentalized branding, why exactly is that anti-competitive? I genuinely don't understand it.
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Your example isn't even remotely accurate.

First of all, Greedy Green Lemon Fuckers is already giving you rebates, early access and marketing funds to begin with. What it does then is tell you to downgrade your other lemonade product to a non-lemonade product even though it's a lemonade product or you're going to lose the rebates, early access and marketing funds you were being given. Since that product was more than half your sales you can't afford not to do what the company is extorting out of you. Especially since if other companies using the same lemons sign on to the extortion "agreement" will be getting the supply you were formerly getting pushing you out of even more sales.

Please try to make some sort of valid comparison next time.
 
Alkaladur said:
So basically you're saying that any incentive whatsoever is anti-competitive? I don't get this. If you're my competitor in this example, nothing is stopping you from signing the same deal I did...

And what do you mean an agreement forcing their terms??? Any fucking agreement enforces terms.

Am I fucking mental or is this argument completely void of any sense ?
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^^ What he said. Your comprehension is very, very lacking. Read up on anti-competitive. Intel already lost on this kind of dumbfuckery. I can't help you.
 
SmokeRngs said:
Your example isn't even remotely accurate.

First of all, Greedy Green Lemon Fuckers is already giving you rebates, early access and marketing funds to begin with. What it does then is tell you to downgrade your other lemonade product to a non-lemonade product even though it's a lemonade product or you're going to lose the rebates, early access and marketing funds you were being given. Since that product was more than half your sales you can't afford not to do what the company is extorting out of you. Especially since if other companies using the same lemons sign on to the extortion "agreement" will be getting the supply you were formerly getting pushing you out of even more sales.

Please try to make some sort of valid comparison next time.
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That's not extortion.

People are using all these emotionally-charged words that don't even make any sense in this case.
 
SmokeRngs said:
Your example isn't even remotely accurate.

First of all, Greedy Green Lemon Fuckers is already giving you rebates, early access and marketing funds to begin with. What it does then is tell you to downgrade your other lemonade product to a non-lemonade product even though it's a lemonade product or you're going to lose the rebates, early access and marketing funds you were being given. Since that product was more than half your sales you can't afford not to do what the company is extorting out of you. Especially since if other companies using the same lemons sign on to the extortion "agreement" will be getting the supply you were formerly getting pushing you out of even more sales.

Please try to make some sort of valid comparison next time.
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Well I would argue your comparison is totally moot because nobody is forcing anyone to downgrade anything. Not only that, but the rebates already existing only serves to further enforce the absurdity of your argument. Had the rebates not already existed this would not have been anti-competitive?

Of course any lemonade analogy is going to fall flat on it's face insofar as serious discussion is concerned, but considering we have people calling it EXTORTION and posting gifs of Rober DeNiro's Al Capone caving someone's head in with a baseball bat I thought some lemon flavored humor really couldn't hurt .

Chill the fuck out people, you are sounding more and more hysterical.

Are rebates required by law? I don't think so. The early access thing? Marketing funds? All of these things sound like incentives, incentives are often tied to terms. These are the new terms for the aforementioned incentives, it is absurd to argue that this is extortion because the rebates, marketing funds and whatnot already existed.


Shotglass01 said:
^^ What he said. Your comprehension is very, very lacking. Read up on anti-competitive. Intel already lost on this kind of dumbfuckery. I can't help you.
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My comprehension is none of your concern and is completely unrelated to the topic. I am certain that if you possessed the mental capacity to respond to the post in a meaningful manner you would have, I can't help you.
 
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jwcalla said:
That's not extortion.

People are using all these emotionally-charged words that don't even make any sense in this case.
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Exactly. Again, no one is telling these manufacturers that they cannot sell AMD products, they just want them branded separately to make it easier for people to know what they're actually buying. Send anyone non-enthusiast into a Fry's and tell them to buy a high end Nvidia card. They might come out with an ASUS ROG STRIX RX580 instead of a GTX 1080 because the branding is confusing. I can completely see why Nvidia wants their cards marketed and branded differently. And to be honest, Nvidia and AMD offer two different tier of cards to begin with that SHOULD have been marketed differently to begin with. You have an entry level budget option with AMD and a high tier gaming experience with Nvidia.

Nothing is being extorted, they simply wnt their cards branded properly and separately from AMD.
 
Alkaladur said:
because nobody is forcing anyone to downgrade anything.
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Per the alleged terms of the GPP, AIB partners MUST align their gaming brand and offer only GeForce labeled products.

I'm not sure if you genuinely missed this tidbit of information along the way, or have a completely alien definition of the word 'force.'
I have no expectations either way these days, so don't take it as an attack please. :)

That's the part of the agreement that many are getting hung up on, and really does shed a different light on this program if true.

Alkaladur said:
Not only that, but the rebates already existing
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Counter-question - if the rebates and terms of this alleged agreement were already existing and in effect - just what is Nvidia doing here?
That's what I don't understand and makes me pause to wonder.
If the GPP is true as we've heard it here, is Nvidia re-branding it? Re-promoting it?
If they're already providing these incentives, what's the point in drawing up a new agreement and having it signed by AIBs?


L33t Masta said:
Exactly. Again, no one is telling these manufacturers that they cannot sell AMD products, they just want them branded separately to make it easier for people to know what they're actually buying.
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They are already branded differently, they list GeForce/Nvidia or Radeon/AMD.
There's no need to go any further.

That's the problem here in the States, we have to make up names and brands, and slogans and sayings, and logos and mascots for EVERYTHING.
It's really ridiculous.
 
L33t Masta said:
Exactly. Again, no one is telling these manufacturers that they cannot sell AMD products, they just want them branded separately to make it easier for people to know what they're actually buying. Send anyone non-enthusiast into a Fry's and tell them to buy a high end Nvidia card. They might come out with an ASUS ROG STRIX RX580 instead of a GTX 1080 because the branding is confusing. I can completely see why Nvidia wants their cards marketed and branded differently. And to be honest, Nvidia and AMD offer two different tier of cards to begin with that SHOULD have been marketed differently to begin with. You have an entry level budget option with AMD and a high tier gaming experience with Nvidia.
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Are 1050Ti's top tier gaming? Would the same customer come out with one of those instead of a 1080 because the branding is confusing?

You are spouting some rubbish on this thread so far.
 
Alkaladur said:
My comprehension is none of your concern and is completely unrelated to the topic. I am certain that if you possessed the mental capacity to respond to the post in a meaningful manner you would have, I can't help you.
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Cool bro, I feel the burn from that one. Disagree.
 
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