NVIDIA Starts Disinformation GPP Campaign

Creig said:
No, they're not. Performance is performance, heat is heat and power is power. You can't just mix and match completely different hardware categories.

Personally, I care about price/performance. To me, heat output and power consumption are both "meh" items.
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Heat is wasted power. Heat is component degradation. Heat is bad, m'kay?
 
Bielzebuddha said:
Heat is wasted power. Heat is component degradation. Heat is bad, m'kay?
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I would have to disagree with you. My 2 480 GTX's are still going strong....they were one of the most power/noise Video cards ever. Even over a Radeon 6990.
 
ChadD said:
Well that is a great example. I posted about it previous and am to lazy to go find my post to link. Coke actually was found in violation of multiple laws in the EU and other euro countries. They where forced to pay fines... and amend all their contracts. To the point if they give a store a cooler in they EU there is a specific percentage (think its 20%) of the space in that cooler that the store owner can use for whatever the fuck they want including pepsi product if they choose.

In the US yes its not that the laws are gutted... its that the US honestly still relies on the Sherman Act which I kid you not was written in 1890. There hasn't been the will in the US to draft proper anti comp laws it would seem in 130 or so years.
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20% is really nothing in the whole grand scheme of things, its better than nothing but clever placement of products can still marginalize your competitors product. I do agree with you Sherman Act is pretty antiquated and doesn't prevent monopoly in the long run, just look at the break up of AT&T and it subsequent reformation.
 
Chimpee said:
Probably a bit of both in my opinion but I do not study law so hard for me to say. McDonald still sales only Coca Cola drinks, not Pepsi only tells me one thing, Coca Cola has one hell of a legal team to prevent Pepsi from competing in McDonald as well.
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Incorrect.

McD's works a supply deal for Coke to come in and supply their drinks and dispensing equipment for a percentage of the sales. It's a nationwide thing. Some states don't allow single-supplier deals, so they have to provide the other stuff (or competitors' access to the dispensers).

The point is, it's an AGREEMENT between Taco Bell and Pepsi, or whoever.

What GPP does is puts a gun to Asus' head, and says "put ONLY our name on your products, or else we shoot).

By any other definition, that's extortion. Or highway robbery.
 
Was thinking I would wait for a 1170 and upgrade, but I don’t know if I want to buy something from Nvidia this round with this kind of garbage going on. May wait for Navi (hopefully won’t be a Vega style disappointment).
 
Chimpee said:
Probably a bit of both in my opinion but I do not study law so hard for me to say. McDonald still sales only Coca Cola drinks, not Pepsi only tells me one thing, Coca Cola has one hell of a legal team to prevent Pepsi from competing in McDonald as well.
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Kinda the other way around. Let's say McD's has seven flavor soft drinks they want to sell. Cola, Orange, Lemonade etc. that goes great with their food.
There can be only one Cola. Coke and Pepsi compete for that spot. Currently, Coke has the contract and are willing to give McD's the pricing they want long term.
 
thats Ngreedia for you, they get caught in a lie and will do everything they can to make you look the other way, to find someone else to blame, to try and paint the picture in every other color than the brown that BULLSHIT usually is.

I seriously doubt Asus or any other AIB would "drop" their branding and align it with Nvidia GPU specifically if Nvidia did not basically put their back up against the wall with veiled threats.

things like freesync are "not good enough" they do not want to make the gaming market great for everyone, they want it all to their greedy ass selves or they try and kick everyone out of the sandbox, like a 2 year old throwing a fit because they cant have their lolly.

typical Nvidia, blame everyone else but themselves, fk up and find a way to downplay it, have things break themselves because they are too cheap to ensure proper component selection it is everyone's fault but theirs, be the last on board and expect to be the first mate even when they often have not deserved such attention.

people keep throwing their money at them, yay the drunk halfwit can run really fast even though he may break his leg or expect you to put extra red carpet around his stage entrance with a bowl full of has to be the best halfwit green MnM for his sole use......

anyways.....
 
bildad said:
I don't get it. To me this is a hyped non story. It's all about branding. Nvidia isn't saying anyone can't make or sell AMD gpus, they just don't want them in the same bucket.

AMD is upset because they can't ride the coat tails of a better product.

Nvidia is upset because there's a fly in their soup.

That basically sums it up.
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Actually, you aren't getting it. It's one thing for Nvidia to say they don't want people to create brands that cover other products as well, but they're actually pulling weaponry to ensure it. That's the difference. This isn't exactly "racketeering", but the principles are very similar. This is coercion. And while this kind of heavy handed coercion costs companies money, Nvidia will compensate for your pain.
 
It is about the "low information" GPU customers.

Think about it:

John just wants an ASUS GPU.

He heard gud things about ASUS, and knows nothing about GPUs.

HE sees 4 different ASUS ROG STRIX cards on the shelf priced $299,329, 499, and 599.

What little info he reads off the box makes no sense(to him), and he buys the cheapest card, the $299 (AMD) card.

He doesn't know he just bought a AMD 9234 OC, nor does he really care.

Now imagine the same thing, except 2 cards are ASUS ROG STRIX NVIDIA 1250 series, and two are ASUS ARIES 9XXX series.
The Nv cards are in a very expensive box, cause they paid for it, the AMD card boxes are and black and white,and look generic.

John buys the $329 cause the box looks much better. (an Nvidia card)

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Where it gets illegal-ish is when NVIDIA offers money and threatens.

You cant really do that.
 
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realdeadman said:
It is about the "low information" GPU customers.

Think about it:

John just wants an ASUS GPU.

He heard gud things about ASUS, and knows nothing about GPUs.

HE sees 4 different ASUS ROG STRIX cards on the shelf priced $299,329, 499, and 599.

What little info he reads off the box makes no sense(to him), and he buys the cheapest card, the $299 (AMD) card.

He doesn't know he just bought a AMD 1234 OC, nor does he really care.

Now imagine the same thing, except 2 cards are ASUS ROG STRIX NVIDIA GFX KILLER 500 series, and two are ASUS ARIES 9XXX series.
The Nv cards are in a very expensive box, cause they paid for it, the AMD card boxes and black and white,and look generic.

John buys the $329 cause the box looks much better. (an Nvidia card)

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Where it gets illegal-ish is when NVIDIA offers money and threatens.

You cant really do that.
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as someone who works in the front-lines at retail selling and designing PCs for new PC users, this isn't TOO far from the truth, however most people have a general idea of what GPU they want, and the branding is the main thing that sways them.

Then again, MOST of my customers are gamers in some way.
 
WorldExclusive said:
Kinda the other way around. Let's say McD's has seven flavor soft drinks they want to sell. Cola, Orange, Lemonade etc. that goes great with their food.
There can be only one Cola. Coke and Pepsi compete for that spot. Currently, Coke has the contract and are willing to give McD's the pricing they want long term.
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Ummmm.. if you look at the BRAND of the soft drinks in ANY fast food restaurant.. or pretty much ANY restaurant for that matter, all the soft drinks are made by the same parent company.
 
This whole GPP thing is akin to what Intel did to OEMs in regards to AMD years ago.. When AMD had the Athlon 64 and Intel had the Pentium IV.

Intel coerced OEMs to not sell AMD products by telling them that they would raise prices and/or cut off supply if said companies sold AMD products.

That right here should have gotten Intel slammed to the ground but all they got was a slap on the wrist.

Nvidia is not doing the same exact thing, but because of the Intal/AMD/OEM thing from years ago, some people are way more watchful of the same sort of thing happening again.

Nvidia is really trying to force AMD out of the market any way they can... and by telling companies they will cut supply off if they don't bend to their will, it is the same type of thing and because of it, I will not be buying any Nvidia products or products from any aompanies that are going along with this crap.

I also know other people who have decided the same thing.

GPP can suck it!
 
Nvidia is in damage control hardcore. I can' see them continuing with the GPP. I'd be worried about the Korean FTC they have been slinging 800 million anticompete fines around lately.
 
I have been around here for a few years, not much posted tho.
Just want Kyle to know that his story with GPP is great and was much needed.
If he got paid or not, by AMD or whoever, (I hope he did!). I dont care. GPP is the worst thing that has happend in this industry for both consumers and some brands.

Keep it up [H]

Much love from Sweden, sorry for bad english.
 
Lol for over a decade I've seen Kyle called shill for x brand, depending on what's being published at the time. Makes me wonder how many paid damage control shills they have running around here, post GPP.

Ngreedia, you deserve every bit of damage and negative perception your brand is getting with this lying horseshit. Even the most corrupt politicians don't typically get away with it (even hill dawg just got served lol). In short, fuck you, you deserve it raw and with sand for lube.
 
N4CR said:
Lol for over a decade I've seen Kyle called shill for x brand, depending on what's being published at the time. Makes me wonder how many paid damage control shills they have running around here, post GPP.

Ngreedia, you deserve every bit of damage and negative perception your brand is getting with this lying horseshit. Even the most corrupt politicians don't typically get away with it (even hill dawg just got served lol). In short, fuck you, you deserve it raw and with sand for lube.
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The masses do not get this, Nvidia knew there would be backlash about this GPP.
 
From what I see

Kyle isn’t going anywhere
Nvidia isn’t going anywhere
AMD isn’t going anywhere

Anyone can call Kyle a shill if they want. It doesn’t change what is happening. Continue to watch and eventually you will see that what Kyle stated is in fact happening.

I tend to take the most impartial persons word on things.

To me Kyle and his team embody what reporters should be doing. Telling us the hard unadulterated truth.

If Nvidia wants to refute what Kyle is saying that’s cool. That may be a good discussion. Sadly where are they? Oh if they have to talk about who is getting paid for what instead of the meat and potatoes of what is being claimed.... I guess that says it all.

Probably not the first and last time this will happen to Kyle.
 
KazeoHin said:
I ask you:

How much money, if offered, would you kill for?

I mean, you get away with it, no consequences. No police, no jailtime, just ending someone's life and the grief that causes.

How much money would you do it for? Think of your family, all the people who you could help, all the issues in your life you could fix, You could change the future of your family, your children's children's children could live a life of wealth.

Be honest with yourself and answer, don't be 'that guy' who says "no amount is worth it" because you're human. You're an animal that needs to eat, looks out for your family, who has emotions. I already said there would be no legal consequences, so there's that out of the way.. How much money would it take you to kill? If offered to you in one big briefcase. How much would you do it for? Think of that number.




Nvidia makes billions of dollars. Billions with a B. Some people would easily kill for that number. even if you wouldn't kill, I'm guessing that it's more than enough to make you lean towards not playing fair.
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I'd say maybe a $1.05.
 
Funny when shady business practices happen with other products/companies no one gives a shit. Only when it involves GPUs, controversies seem to explode with very upset, indignant people. We never saw massive anti-Intel threads when they were doing their crap, which was far worse than Nvidia. No one boycotted Intel, but virtually all enthusiasts bought Intel. Many were aware of Intels practices, but seems they set their principles aside and went for what they viewed was the better product. Wonder how this will shake out if/when Nvidia release Turin soon and it turns out to be a monster performer. And/or if Navi disappoints. Will people discard their lofty principles and do as they did when insidious Intel had the top product?
 
Shop_vac said:
I wonder if you are conflating two different ideas here. Nvidia seems to be saying they don't expect a monetary gain or for oem or AIB to sell GeForce products cheaper. IE they aren't forcing distributions to sell at a loss.

Don't they have a right to withhold anything that is not entitled to distributions, like marketing monies and rebates? Those are the results of agreements, are they not?

Just trying to understand.


And for better or worst, it seems you're particularly AMD-centric lately, which may give the image problem nvidia is foisting on you.
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This isn't about anyone selling anything cheaper. Its about Nvidia dictating to their customers (that is the relationship between NV and OEM/AIBs) which market segments they are allowed to market non NV parts to. In the wording Kyle has seen he says it clearly states that OEM/AIBs main gaming brand is to belong to NV under the gpp.

If you don't understand why this is annoying some people its because we have seen this before and it takes years to correct;
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/50863/000005086309000213/exh101.htm (This is Intels US AMD Settlement Agreement form 2009, if you read though it you will see Intel is promising to not do exactly what they had done and what Nvidia is now doing... buying market segments from OEMs with rebates, market development funds, and preferential stock shipments)
http://ec.europa.eu/competition/antitrust/cases/dec_docs/37990/37990_3581_18.pdf (this is a summation from the EU after Intels last attempt to wiggle out of the 1.4B fine they imposed on Intel)

We have seen this before from both Intel and MS... it is not cool... it destroys customer choice. It sets the entire industry back by killing competition. Intel actually had the gall to argue that their rebate program saved end users money... of course the end goal was to be the only player left standing. (which is exactly what mostly happened and why Intel was able to coast and overcharge for years). Even though billions of dollars in fines and court dictated payments sounds terrible. Its not the slap on the fingers Intel and MS got have not been heavy enough to deter other companies from trying to pull the same shit. (Clearly as this GPP is the same shit) Which is understandable just looking at Intel... they Fd the competition over for 8-9 years before the court cases got settled. Got slapped with less then one quarter of one quarters revenue in settlements and fines... and bought themselves a very dominant position.

From the most recent EU commission;
"On 8 March 2005, the Japan Fair Trade Commission (JFTC) found that Intel's conduct violated Section 3 of the Japanese Antimonopoly Act. The JFTC concluded that Intel had "since May 2002 … made the five major Japanese OEMs refrain from adopting competitors’ CPUs for all or most of the PCs manufactured and sold by them or all of the PCs that belong to specific groups of PCs referred to as ‘series’, by making commitments to provide the five OEMs with rebates and/or certain funds referred as ‘MDF’ (Market Development Fund) in order to maximize their MSS [market segment share] " This is in pretty easy to understand English. Intel was paying OEMs for sole supply of specific market segments and the reward was Market Development Funds. The exact carrot Nvidia is offering for sole access to a market segment. Its a 100% identical illegal contract term.
 
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Shop_vac said:
I wonder if you are conflating two different ideas here. Nvidia seems to be saying they don't expect a monetary gain or for oem or AIB to sell GeForce products cheaper. IE they aren't forcing distributions to sell at a loss.

Don't they have a right to withhold anything that is not entitled to distributions, like marketing monies and rebates? Those are the results of agreements, are they not?

Just trying to understand.


And for better or worst, it seems you're particularly AMD-centric lately, which may give the image problem nvidia is foisting on you.
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https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/03/08/geforce_partner_program_impacts_consumer_choice/

Yeah, the "other side" always gets pissy when you are telling the truth they do not like.
 
rgMekanic said:
You mean maybe something like the RX580?
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This.

The amount of comments about muh 1080ti and no competition, it's almost as if the only competition that matters is the top card, which is literally a percent and a bit of the market. AMD competes everywhere else and if you count consoles, has 50% of the graphics market.
Dgpus are a tiny part of the market and so many fixate on that tiny part and then a further single percent of it!
 
ChadD said:
Well that is a great example. I posted about it previous and am to lazy to go find my post to link. Coke actually was found in violation of multiple laws in the EU and other euro countries. They where forced to pay fines... and amend all their contracts. To the point if they give a store a cooler in they EU there is a specific percentage (think its 20%) of the space in that cooler that the store owner can use for whatever the fuck they want including pepsi product if they choose.

In the US yes its not that the laws are gutted... its that the US honestly still relies on the Sherman Act which I kid you not was written in 1890. There hasn't been the will in the US to draft proper anti comp laws it would seem in 130 or so years.
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Well that is the EU. Just for doing business there is a violation and results in some kind of fines lol.
 
bildad said:
I don't get it. To me this is a hyped non story. It's all about branding. Nvidia isn't saying anyone can't make or sell AMD gpus, they just don't want them in the same bucket.

AMD is upset because they can't ride the coat tails of a better product.

Nvidia is upset because there's a fly in their soup.

That basically sums it up.
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Not when money is involved...and allocation priority goes to those playing ball. This is serious monopolistic bullshit here!
 
I hate lawyers.
I hate the litigious nature of US society.
I hate class-action lawsuits and how they are frequently made-up crap (oh, my coffee is hot?), and only the lawyers profit.

I hate Nvidia's GPP crap even more than I hate the above.

I'd join a class-action in heartbeat. Yeah, my consumer choices/prices have been affected by this obvious scheme.
 
KazeoHin said:
I ask you:

How much money, if offered, would you kill for?

I mean, you get away with it, no consequences. No police, no jailtime, just ending someone's life and the grief that causes.

How much money would you do it for? Think of your family, all the people who you could help, all the issues in your life you could fix, You could change the future of your family, your children's children's children could live a life of wealth.

Be honest with yourself and answer, don't be 'that guy' who says "no amount is worth it" because you're human. You're an animal that needs to eat, looks out for your family, who has emotions. I already said there would be no legal consequences, so there's that out of the way.. How much money would it take you to kill? If offered to you in one big briefcase. How much would you do it for? Think of that number.




Nvidia makes billions of dollars. Billions with a B. Some people would easily kill for that number. even if you wouldn't kill, I'm guessing that it's more than enough to make you lean towards not playing fair.
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Not sure what this post has to do with the discussion at hand however:
I would have to point out that you left out the most important piece of information....who must we hypothetically kill?

I can give you a list of folks that i would hypothetically kill for free based on their past actions: Hitler, Castro, Kim jong (either), any member of ISIS, any abortion doctor.......heck i would also for free make it painful and last a long time for free.
However if we are talking about a random "innocent" i doubt i could do it and most folks would probably feel the same way.

Context is important.
 
pizzathehutt said:
Not sure what this post has to do with the discussion at hand however:
I would have to point out that you left out the most important piece of information....who must we hypothetically kill?

I can give you a list of folks that i would hypothetically kill for free based on their past actions: Hitler, Castro, Kim jong (either), any member of ISIS, any abortion doctor.......heck i would also for free make it painful and last a long time for free.
However if we are talking about a random "innocent" i doubt i could do it and most folks would probably feel the same way.

Context is important.
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Point taken.

I was merely making the point that a billion dollars is what MANY people would consider worth killing or doing horrendous acts for. So when people say "it's just video cards" I reply as such. It's billions of dollars and humans will do horrible things to keep making billions of dollars
 
KazeoHin said:
Point taken.

I was merely making the point that a billion dollars is what MANY people would consider worth killing or doing horrendous acts for. So when people say "it's just video cards" I reply as such. It's billions of dollars and humans will do horrible things to keep making billions of dollars
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fair enough
 
Wow, Kyle. You used to be one of the best sites on the internet for actual hardware news. Now all you seem to do is push anti-Nvidia nonsense at the request of AMD.

“Getting paid to tell the truth”? Yea, ok. AMD put this whole thing in front of you and several other websites hoping you would pick it up and run with it. I thought it would be over in a week but so far you’ve managed to keep it going by producing ZERO evidence from any AIBs, ZERO evidence from Nvidia themselves, and just a bunch of shit from AMD.

Sad to see the site deteriorate into what is basically TMZ instead of actual hardware discussion.
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Nope, it was your point :)
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Not even remotely my point.

If Asus decided, ON THEIR OWN, no outside influences in play, to change brand names, that's one thing, because it would be voluntary and without coercion.

However, that is not the situation. nVidia is DEMANDING that OEMs and AIOs remove any and all AMD-based product from THE VENDORS OWN PRODUCT LINES, under THREAT of various repercussions.

This is coercion. By the very definition of the word.

This is extortion. Again, by the very definition of the word.

Another word is intimidation. Pulling bullying tactics like this fall squarely in this space.

As stated elsewhere ad infinitum & ad nauseum, it's happened before, and the legal system had to be employed to straighten it out.

This whole thing is wrong. It's anticompetitive, monopolistic, and a move by a company that wants that monopoly so they can sit back and rest on their laurels, and provide shit product to a captive audience (where have we heard those words before??).
 
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