NVIDIA Starts Disinformation GPP Campaign

chaos4u said:
Yeah AMD payed kyle, i may be wrong but isnt amd still upset with [H] and not sending them review samples ??

ill never understand big business, to me all nvidia needs to do is just keep releasing great graphic chips and they will continue to keep ranking in the dough . but i guess thats not good enough anymore and you have to manipulate the market just because making killer gpus is not enough to keep you busy .
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The goal of every corporation is to not be competitive. IE : Become a monopoly with captured customers. It costs money to compete, and that's not good for the stock price. This is nVidia trying to monopolize the GPU market by removing a third parties branding advantage.

Were I a third party card maker, I would tell nVidia to piss off, but i'm not, so I just won't buy nVidia cards anymore.
 
I have been watching some of Elrics vid's and while I think he's a nice enough guy, he needs to rant less and get his facts straight because I seen him get stuff wrong more then once, not in the vid posted here but other ones.

If you want to piss companies off or get people to take note/believe you, make sure you have your facts straight like Kyle or Steve from GN.

E.g. He said there would be no more Asus strix AMD graphics cards, which is wrong also that they would not have the gaming branding on them, which is also wrong. The only thing there going away is the ROG branding which will be replaced by the Arez branding, al the rest stays the same (and while I think it's great to have AMD and Nvidia cards under a different brand, that does not mean I'm ok with how this is going atm.)
 
Denpepe said:
I have been watching some of Elrics vid's and while I think he's a nice enough guy, he needs to rant less and get his facts straight because I seen him get stuff wrong more then once, not in the vid posted here but other ones.

If you want to piss companies off or get people to take note/believe you, make sure you have your facts straight like Kyle or Steve from GN.

E.g. He said there would be no more Asus strix AMD graphics cards, which is wrong also that they would not have the gaming branding on them, which is also wrong. The only thing there going away is the ROG branding which will be replaced by the Arez branding, al the rest stays the same (and while I think it's great to have AMD and Nvidia cards under a different brand, that does not mean I'm ok with how this is going atm.)
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Yeah, I wish this video would have stayed on his point, it would have been about 3 minutes long.
 
variant said:
I wonder where the "AMD has no competitive cards" meme comes from. Yes, AMD can't really compete against the 1080Ti, but everywhere else they are competitive.Yet this meme is repeated over and over.
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The heat and power numbers aren't good.on the Radeon cards. Those are aspects of performance.
 
GoldenTiger said:
The heat and power numbers aren't good.on the Radeon cards. Those are aspects of performance.
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This is a big deal.

Not to mention, they are ~competitive on FPS, but the slab of silicon on the Vega cards is the same size as a 1080Ti, and draws more power and uses more expensive memory. The truth is that it costs AMD more to manufacture than the 1080Ti and they're selling it for less. In other words, Their profit margins (if they even exist for Vega) are razor thin, whereas Nvidia probably makes $200+ on each 1080Ti you buy.

This is what I talk about when I talk about "competitive GPUs".
 
KazeoHin said:
This is a big deal.

Not to mention, they are ~competitive on FPS, but the slab of silicon on the Vega cards is the same size as a 1080Ti, and draws more power and uses more expensive memory. The truth is that it costs AMD more to manufacture than the 1080Ti and they're selling it for less. In other words, Their profit margins (if they even exist for Vega) are razor thin, whereas Nvidia probably makes $200+ on each 1080Ti you buy.

This is what I talk about when I talk about "competitive GPUs".
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When i talk about competitive GPU's its more about how much I paid for it, and how well it works for what I need it to do.

And how can you pretend (make shit up) about how much either company makes on each GPU. Do you have a source for this, cause your throwing hard numbers around.
 
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3 posts in a row, im sorry. I read the farcry 5 review that Kyle linked just now, that this whole conversation has divulged to, and I see;
AMD cards beating (marginally, but winning) at every price point except 1080TI+.
The reasoning that this is irrelevant is, they use more power.
I didnt see power consumption in that review (its probably there), but we're talking about low to mid double digit watts here. This is actually nothing. Yes its hot if you touch it. But science people (or math).
 
DarthBeavis said:
Is this about video-cards?
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I ask you:

How much money, if offered, would you kill for?

I mean, you get away with it, no consequences. No police, no jailtime, just ending someone's life and the grief that causes.

How much money would you do it for? Think of your family, all the people who you could help, all the issues in your life you could fix, You could change the future of your family, your children's children's children could live a life of wealth.

Be honest with yourself and answer, don't be 'that guy' who says "no amount is worth it" because you're human. You're an animal that needs to eat, looks out for your family, who has emotions. I already said there would be no legal consequences, so there's that out of the way.. How much money would it take you to kill? If offered to you in one big briefcase. How much would you do it for? Think of that number.




Nvidia makes billions of dollars. Billions with a B. Some people would easily kill for that number. even if you wouldn't kill, I'm guessing that it's more than enough to make you lean towards not playing fair.
 
Kyle fails at capitalism. Imagine actually being paid off for all the accusations. or wait, is that how communism works. This world is facked. Freedom of speech and press gets you accused of all kinds of F*d up stuff, while militant suppression means "hey, nothing to see here, all is good, best place in world live".
 
travm said:
When i talk about competitive GPU's its more about how much I paid for it, and how well it works for what I need it to do.

And how can you pretend (make shit up) about how much either company makes on each GPU. Do you have a source for this, cause your throwing hard numbers around.
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I could show you the general numbers of how much it costs per wafer for a 16nm run, the size of the chip, yields, volume of order, etc. There are a lot of factors and the exact prices are kept hush-hush (just like ANY big cross corporation purchase, its done on a quote-to-quote basis), smaller orders get charged more per wafer than larger orders, supply, demand, etc.

But the general prices can be estimated. We know (with a fair amount of certainty) that HBM costs ~300% of what GDDR5x costs, and we also know that the Vega silicon is about the same size as the 1080Ti silicon, at a very similar manufacturing process.

Nvidia also would be ordering more chips be manufactured, as they would be selling the silicon not just for the 1080 Ti, but for the Titan XP and all the tesla and quadro cards.

It doesn't take an economics and computer engineering degree to see that Nvidia is making WAY more money per square milometer of silicon than AMD is. With that, you have a situation wherein even if AMD manages to sell the exact same number pf chips, Nvidia is STILL winning and able to put more money into R&D, Marketing and GPP dodging campaigns.


In other words, pure gaming performance per dollar can only make something competitive to a point.
 
GoldenTiger said:
The heat and power numbers aren't good.on the Radeon cards. Those are aspects of performance.
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The Vega series are actually competitive against their Nvidia counterparts, the biggest issue wasn't the power or heat( think most people can lived with that), but how late it shows up against GTX 1070 and 1080, at this point, people who already own either GTX 1070 or 1080 have no compelling reason to switch if they gotten comparable performance already.
 
variant said:
I wonder where the "AMD has no competitive cards" meme comes from. Yes, AMD can't really compete against the 1080Ti, but everywhere else they are competitive.Yet this meme is repeated over and over.
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AMD's video cards have to be competitive in prices also, not just in performance,

Radeon RX Vega 56/64 has huge dies and uses HBM2 memory which is not only expensive, but also supply constraint.
 
GoldenTiger said:
The heat and power numbers aren't good.on the Radeon cards. Those are aspects of performance.
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No, they're not. Performance is performance, heat is heat and power is power. You can't just mix and match completely different hardware categories.

Personally, I care about price/performance. To me, heat output and power consumption are both "meh" items.
 
bildad said:
I don't get it. To me this is a hyped non story. It's all about branding. Nvidia isn't saying anyone can't make or sell AMD gpus, they just don't want them in the same bucket.

AMD is upset because they can't ride the coat tails of a better product.

Nvidia is upset because there's a fly in their soup.

That basically sums it up.
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Wrong.

nVidia is saying that, if the OEMs and AIOs do NOT "play ball" (remove their own branding from their AMD-sourced parts--that they designed & manufactured), then nVidia will choke them off from access to nVidia parts.

This is like Al Capone standing behind you with a baseball bat, telling you that you WILL put his name on your whiskey & sell it at his price. Or else.
EhtCDYD.gif


It's simple: IT'S AGAINST THE LAW.
It's like me walking into your home, putting a gun to your head, and making you give me your cash and anything else I want.

If you can't get that, I truly feel sorry for you.
 
KazeoHin said:
I could show you the general numbers of how much it costs per wafer for a 16nm run, the size of the chip, yields, volume of order, etc. There are a lot of factors and the exact prices are kept hush-hush (just like ANY big cross corporation purchase, its done on a quote-to-quote basis), smaller orders get charged more per wafer than larger orders, supply, demand, etc.

But the general prices can be estimated. We know (with a fair amount of certainty) that HBM costs ~300% of what GDDR5x costs, and we also know that the Vega silicon is about the same size as the 1080Ti silicon, at a very similar manufacturing process.

Nvidia also would be ordering more chips be manufactured, as they would be selling the silicon not just for the 1080 Ti, but for the Titan XP and all the tesla and quadro cards.

It doesn't take an economics and computer engineering degree to see that Nvidia is making WAY more money per square milometer of silicon than AMD is. With that, you have a situation wherein even if AMD manages to sell the exact same number pf chips, Nvidia is STILL winning and able to put more money into R&D, Marketing and GPP dodging campaigns.


In other words, pure gaming performance per dollar can only make something competitive to a point.
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They use different foundries, your talking like this is a cut and dry thing and the costs are known across the board. I dont work in "this" industry, but I know its never ever that simple.

Nvidia is buying their chips from TMSC, AMD is making their own psuedostyle from GloFo (who actually sucks at this, relatively, they are getting better tho). Cost of HBM vs GDDR5, maaaaybe you can deduce. But Manufacturing and channel costs are so far over your head. I know this just because you think its not.
 
Bielzebuddha said:
Wrong.

nVidia is saying that, if the OEMs and AIOs do NOT "play ball" (remove their own branding from their AMD-sourced parts--that they designed & manufactured), then nVidia will choke them off from access to nVidia parts.

This is like Al Capone standing behind you with a baseball bat, telling you that you WILL put his name on your whiskey & sell it at his price. Or else.
View attachment 67830

It's simple: IT'S AGAINST THE LAW.
It's like me walking into your home, putting a gun to your head, and making you give me your cash and anything else I want.

If you can't get that, I truly feel sorry for you.
Click to expand...

You be surprise just how legal this is if you start looking at similar things in other industries.
 
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travm said:
They use different foundries, your talking like this is a cut and dry thing and the costs are known across the board. I dont work in "this" industry, but I know its never ever that simple.

Nvidia is buying their chips from TMSC, AMD is making their own psuedostyle from GloFo (who actually sucks at this, relatively, they are getting better tho). Cost of HBM vs GDDR5, maaaaybe you can deduce. But Manufacturing and channel costs are so far over your head. I know this just because you think its not.
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So Nvidia, a larger company with larger buying power ordering larger volumes, selling similar sized silicon for hundreds of dollars more per unit (thousands in the case of quadros and teslas) is making less money per square millimetre of silicon?


instead of saying "nyuh uh!" maybe explain your position.
 
Bielzebuddha said:
Despite the gutting of the law recently, actions like this in the US are patently NOT legal, and are actionable. Despite the initial EU reaction, I think the door will swing the other way, and hard.
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It is not about gutting the law, just a fact that these types of tactics that companies employed have been prevalent for a long long time and legal. I give you a simple example, sodas at fast food place.
 
KazeoHin said:
This is a big deal.

Not to mention, they are ~competitive on FPS, but the slab of silicon on the Vega cards is the same size as a 1080Ti, and draws more power and uses more expensive memory. The truth is that it costs AMD more to manufacture than the 1080Ti and they're selling it for less. In other words, Their profit margins (if they even exist for Vega) are razor thin, whereas Nvidia probably makes $200+ on each 1080Ti you buy.

This is what I talk about when I talk about "competitive GPUs".
Click to expand...

There's also the lag time it takes them to release their 'FPS competitive' space-heaters. We can talk about the lag time between the 1080 and Vega, but misses the fact that Vega eats more power than a 980Ti...
 
Chimpee said:
It is not about gutting the law, just a fact that these types of tactics that companies employed have been prevalent for a long long time and legal. I give you a simple example, sodas at fast food place.
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Well that is a great example. I posted about it previous and am to lazy to go find my post to link. Coke actually was found in violation of multiple laws in the EU and other euro countries. They where forced to pay fines... and amend all their contracts. To the point if they give a store a cooler in they EU there is a specific percentage (think its 20%) of the space in that cooler that the store owner can use for whatever the fuck they want including pepsi product if they choose.

In the US yes its not that the laws are gutted... its that the US honestly still relies on the Sherman Act which I kid you not was written in 1890. There hasn't been the will in the US to draft proper anti comp laws it would seem in 130 or so years.
 
travm said:
3 posts in a row, im sorry. I read the farcry 5 review that Kyle linked just now, that this whole conversation has divulged to, and I see;
AMD cards beating (marginally, but winning) at every price point except 1080TI+.
The reasoning that this is irrelevant is, they use more power.
I didnt see power consumption in that review (its probably there), but we're talking about low to mid double digit watts here. This is actually nothing. Yes its hot if you touch it. But science people (or math).
Click to expand...
Did you forget your meds again?
 
Damn Kyle, I guess no more free video cards for reviews from AMD or Nvidia. I guess this is what you get for telling it how it is...

This is why we like your reviews and honesty you keep it real. We might not see eye to eye on some things, but that is why I keep coming back here. You are honest, Might be a stubborn old man like me, but Honest!
 
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