Let's Build a Box

relic

[H]ard|DCer of the Month - August 2007
Joined
Mar 30, 2001
Messages
9,318
One day, back in the ancient days of [H] DC, BillR and I were walking our pet dinosaurs on the rock (back before there was dirt) and discussing how to get these new-fangled, non-cro magnon humans to join the DC team. It dawned on us that ...

one: we needed more scotch, and
two: most people just don't know where to begin.

Just after procuring a 15yo bottle and promptly burying that poor, dead, empty fellow, we had concocted a brilliant plan that had two main components.

one: we needed more scotch, and
two: we need to write a "how to" on building boxen for DCing.

Unfortunately, as there are many different projects that have different requirements, and there are many different budgets, and types of DCers (gardeners, farmers, businesses and single boxen owners), we needed to narrow down the "how to" to target the folks whichd it would help the most. This required additional cogitation. As we all know, brain cells run best on ethanol, which is most appropriately applied via scotch. So off we stumbled for a third fifth.

At that point BillR started telling a story to two young ladies, whom we met at a bus stop between my house and the liquor store. By the end of the story, we realized that the bottle was again empty and we had to turn around, and head back to the store for a fourth fifth. In a brief flash of clarity, we realized that we should buy two bottles, making five fifths or 5/5 which obviously equals "1" so we'd sober up a bit (because we'd only had "1" drink, obviously) and get on with all that thinking we had to do...

The next morning, I realized that BillR and I must have done a damn sight more figurin' that I'd expected, because my brain hurt like hell. Fortunately we had an emergency stash of anesthetic (aka 12yo Glenfiddich) which, when applied liberally, resolved the issue.

It was time to write the "How to Start Guide" for first time DCers. Targeting the individual that wanted to build one new box for DC projects. We decided to show two builds, both of w were to be designed to run any DC project reasonably. One would be a high-end, budget-be-damned flamethrower, the other a reasonably competitive, budget box.

We also decided that it was too expensive to drink five fifths of fifteen year old scotch in a night (not to mention the overuse of "5"s), so we were going to switch to tequila for the project. Not only is it less costly, but it is available in large jugs with a handle. It is this kind of brilliant intuitive leap and forward thinking that conquers nations and creates legend. You can thank me later, for this sage insight...

Armed with two "tequila-with-a-handle" jugs and all of the accumulated knowledge that two barely-post-neanderthal brains could contain, we wrote that guide and [H]ard legend was born.

Now, BillR is gone, and I'm old enough that I have more ear hair than head hair. It's been over a decade since I was deeply involved with computer hardware. So, it's up to you young guys to rekindle the legend. But I'll promise you this; if you design it, I will build one and put in to DCing for the team.

Who is up for the challenge?

Sincerely,
The [H]ard Bard

PS. I don't really have a way with words, I have my way with scotch, which causes a cacophonic spew of incongruous sense.
 
I tried drinking some scotch last night in an attempt to fire up some genius inspiration. It failed. I mustn't have drunk enough.

Given that, I'll just suggest what has been my standard go to build for the past 6 months or so. It based around AMD's Threadripper and is a bit of an all rounder that seems to perform well for most DC/BOINC projects thrown at it. It's not a good suggestion if all you intend to do is fold. I buy in the UK so the newegg links are just because that's the only US supplier I know.

CPU - Threadripper 1950X
Motherboard - Gigabyte X399 AORUS Gaming 7
Memory - 32GB G.SKILL F4-3200C14Q-32GTZR Trident
HSF - Noctua NH-U12S TR4-SP3
GPU - ASUS ROG GeForce GTX 1080 Ti although any GPU to tide you over until Volta is released will do.
SSD - Samsung 850 EVO 500 GB although any 250GB+ HDD/SSD to meet your needs will do.
PSU - EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 G3 although any decent 750W+ PSU with dual cpu connector support will do
Case - Corsair Carbide Series Air 540 although any high airflow case with enough clearance for the HSF (or going nekkid) will do.

Linux is preferable for DC but you'll need to add Windows 10 to the above if you intend to multi purpose the rig.

This may not meet your needs or your budget requirements. No harm, no foul.
 
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Actually TR is a sensible choice if you want to GPU fold, get a 1900x, a mobo with 3-4 x16 PCie slots and 3-4 gpu's. All the gpu's will have x16 connectivity so won't be bottlenecked, For boinc i'd go with something similar to the above
 
Hey...add as many cards as it can hold and maybe go with a 4P Intel rig....cost is no issue right...lol
 
Damn, GPUs are way expensive these days. Are all the miners driving prices up? I'm seeing a minimum of $900 for a 1080Ti.
Is DC all about the GPU these days?

I know we used to do testing to determine the best price/work unit ratio. Has anyone done that recently?
 
No. DC is not all about GPU. Some projects depend on it heavily, yes; but far more projects are CPU only. A handful utilize both GPU and CPU.

That testing for best price/work unit ratio was based on a single project back then known as Folding@Home. A good bit of the team doesn't participate in that project anymore. If you're wanting a F@H rig then it is a project that's all about the GPU. CPU on it is practically useless.

With that said, phoenicis has a high end AMD rig and high end Intel rig that he's done some comparisons on. Maybe he will give his opinion on which one he thinks gets the most work done at the best price.
 
With that said, phoenicis has a high end AMD rig and high end Intel rig that he's done some comparisons on. Maybe he will give his opinion on which one he thinks gets the most work done at the best price.

To cut to the quick, I'd recommend the TR 1950X over my equivalent (16 core/32 thread) 7960X Intel rig for BOINC cpu projects.

I've got them both clocked at a modest 3.6GHz for energy efficiency reasons although, for a short while, I did run the Intel at an OC of 4GHz without much additional vcore required. Worry over heat stopped me taking it any further.

With the exception of a couple of projects, at 3.6GHz, they perform pretty much the same with, if anything, the TR having a small edge on most projects whilst also pulling about 10% less power from the wall. I've encountered two projects where the Intel has a clear lead of a about 30-40% over TR, SRBase and Asteroids. I'm guessing the project applications take advantage of the Intel AVX2/512 extensions.

I wouldn't be without the 7960X but considering the considerably lower cost of TR, imho the Intel price premium isn't justified.
 
phoenicis, since you have an experience with TR, what do you think about EPYC 7401P? Just a tad more expensive than TR but has 24 cores and running 2.8 Ghz on all cores for a total compute frequency of 134.4 GHz versus TR of 118.4 GHz (3.7GHz for all cores running?).

Thinking that EPYC is more efficient chip but limited motherboard availability. 2P version (7401) costs a lot more than 1P 7401P

Thoughts anyone?
 
pututu, I'm not sure about motherboard pricing/availability but it looks like a perfectly viable energy efficient alternative to TR. The price delta is compensated for by increased capability as you pointed out.

My only initial reservations would be max memory speed of 2666 and GPU throttling.

Can you run memory at 3200 a la TR. Saying this, I haven't noticed a significant sensitivity to this on most projects.

With respect to GPU throttling, I did notice an improved GPU output when running the 7960X at 4GHz versus 3.6GHz. With Volta this could be exacerbated.
 
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On paper a 2P boxen with EPYC chip sounds very tempting but the price difference between 7401 (2P version) versus 7401P (1P version) is like $850! I think the 2P board can run with 1CPU and later on upgrade with 2CPUs.
 
Very interesting, thanks for the input, everyone.
Phoenicis, you're TR info is intriguing, to say the least. Thanks for the efforts of comparing the two systems.

Reminds me of the old days when AMD ruled the DC roost.

Now, I wonder how hot my office will get if I put one (or two or ...) under my desk?
 
Just build a stack of them and put a table top on them...utilize that space better...lol. Grommets can be your ventilation work.
 
Damn, GPUs are way expensive these days. Are all the miners driving prices up? I'm seeing a minimum of $900 for a 1080Ti.
Is DC all about the GPU these days?

I know we used to do testing to determine the best price/work unit ratio. Has anyone done that recently?

I bought em all. The GPUs. All of em.
 
Here is a budget box that should be able to do most projects. approx $715 plus tax/shipping. Maybe less if you catch a sale.

AMD RYZEN 7 1700 8-Core 3.0 GHz $260.

GIGABYTE GA-AB350M-D3H (Rev. 1.0) AM4 AMD B350 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 HDMI Micro ATX $80.

Ballistix Sport LT 8GB (2 x 4GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2400 (PC4 19200) $86.

Silicon Power M55 M.2 2280 120GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $43.

SeaSonic S12II 520 Bronze 520W ATX12V V2.3 / EPS 12V V2.91 $45.

ZOTAC GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB 128-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 $200.
 
Let’s try this again, approx $620 plus tax/shipping.



AMD RYZEN 5 2600 6-Core 3.4 GHz (3.9 GHz Max Boost) Socket AM4 65W $200

ASUS Prime B350M-E AM4 AMD B350 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 HDMI Micro ATX $66

Ballistix Sport LT 8GB Single DDR4 2666 MT/s (PC4-21300) $84

Silicon Power M55 M.2 2280 120GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $43.

Antec VP-450 450W ATX 12V v2.3 Power Supply $37

EVGA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti GAMING, 04G-P4-6251-KR, 4GB GDDR5. $190
 
I'd still be looking at dual channel ram at 2933 or more, other than that a solid build(y)
 
pututu, I'm not sure about motherboard pricing/availability but it looks like a perfectly viable energy efficient alternative to TR. The price delta is compensated for by increased capability as you pointed out.

My only initial reservations would be max memory speed of 2666 and GPU throttling.

Can you run memory at 3200 a la TR. Saying this, I haven't noticed a significant sensitivity to this on most projects.

With respect to GPU throttling, I did notice an improved GPU output when running the 7960X at 4GHz versus 3.6GHz. With Volta this could be exacerbated.

Just curious about your comment regarding GPU throttling... Do you typically run with one CPU thread dedicated to the GPU, or with all possible threads running CPU projects and the GPU left to get whatever spare CPU time might be available? I have only ever seen GPU throttling when I do not reserve a CPU thread for the GPU, so that's why I ask about your setup(s).
 
One day, back in the ancient days of [H] DC, BillR and I were walking our pet dinosaurs on the rock (back before there was dirt) and discussing how to get these new-fangled, non-cro magnon humans to join the DC team. It dawned on us that ...

one: we needed more scotch, and
two: most people just don't know where to begin.

Just after procuring a 15yo bottle and promptly burying that poor, dead, empty fellow, we had concocted a brilliant plan that had two main components.

one: we needed more scotch, and
two: we need to write a "how to" on building boxen for DCing.

Unfortunately, as there are many different projects that have different requirements, and there are many different budgets, and types of DCers (gardeners, farmers, businesses and single boxen owners), we needed to narrow down the "how to" to target the folks whichd it would help the most. This required additional cogitation. As we all know, brain cells run best on ethanol, which is most appropriately applied via scotch. So off we stumbled for a third fifth.

At that point BillR started telling a story to two young ladies, whom we met at a bus stop between my house and the liquor store. By the end of the story, we realized that the bottle was again empty and we had to turn around, and head back to the store for a fourth fifth. In a brief flash of clarity, we realized that we should buy two bottles, making five fifths or 5/5 which obviously equals "1" so we'd sober up a bit (because we'd only had "1" drink, obviously) and get on with all that thinking we had to do...

The next morning, I realized that BillR and I must have done a damn sight more figurin' that I'd expected, because my brain hurt like hell. Fortunately we had an emergency stash of anesthetic (aka 12yo Glenfiddich) which, when applied liberally, resolved the issue.

It was time to write the "How to Start Guide" for first time DCers. Targeting the individual that wanted to build one new box for DC projects. We decided to show two builds, both of w were to be designed to run any DC project reasonably. One would be a high-end, budget-be-damned flamethrower, the other a reasonably competitive, budget box.

We also decided that it was too expensive to drink five fifths of fifteen year old scotch in a night (not to mention the overuse of "5"s), so we were going to switch to tequila for the project. Not only is it less costly, but it is available in large jugs with a handle. It is this kind of brilliant intuitive leap and forward thinking that conquers nations and creates legend. You can thank me later, for this sage insight...

Armed with two "tequila-with-a-handle" jugs and all of the accumulated knowledge that two barely-post-neanderthal brains could contain, we wrote that guide and [H]ard legend was born.

Now, BillR is gone, and I'm old enough that I have more ear hair than head hair. It's been over a decade since I was deeply involved with computer hardware. So, it's up to you young guys to rekindle the legend. But I'll promise you this; if you design it, I will build one and put in to DCing for the team.

Who is up for the challenge?

Sincerely,
The [H]ard Bard

PS. I don't really have a way with words, I have my way with scotch, which causes a cacophonic spew of incongruous sense.
THAT.........
Was a HELLLOVA speach.....
 
Just curious about your comment regarding GPU throttling... Do you typically run with one CPU thread dedicated to the GPU, or with all possible threads running CPU projects and the GPU left to get whatever spare CPU time might be available? I have only ever seen GPU throttling when I do not reserve a CPU thread for the GPU, so that's why I ask about your setup(s).

Good point. I tend to free up a thread where I noticed a benefit from doing so. Einstein I do whereas Collatz I don't. The comment was based upon a perceptible delta on those two projects when I was screwing around in Windows with the 4GHz 7960X overclock last year. The Einstein observation could have been due to the exclusively cpu based last 10% of the task being processed on a higher clocked CPU.
 
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